DE wants a Zero Tolerance policy and that's going to destroy this game

[Sean]

8 minutes ago, KosmicKerman said:

Sean,  in an earlier post you said "Context always matters." The "speaker" is one of the most important parts of "context." It's a little bizarre that you feel the need to question my post discussing the "context" of someone's post in this thread given your previously stated belief that "context always matter.

Mainly stating it, because it can then be investigated if they are in fact using an alt to circumvent the trading system.

One report won't get a ban of course, just bring attention to something.

 

Though I personally don't think that they are using an alt account (at least for trading, rivens have only been around since 2016), but could be wrong of course, though evenso it doesn't really matter if they are... and would probably be more annoying to be an alt in this conversation.

I mainly just don't like it when I see "post-shaming". Resorting to something like that instead of just targeting their post-content only devalues your stance as it then looks like that is what you feel the need to use to try and "win" the discussion.

 

Though also feel this part is getting a bit too off-track.... so.... going to try and not have it get too much further off the rails, lol.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Sean

[Zimzala]

1 minute ago, -AoN-CanoLathra- said:

Let me make sure I have this straight:

You are advocating for the death of people on the basis of their words and opinions, not their actions?

Nope.

Jerks (in this case, racists/homophobes/etc.) are defined in our society by thier words and actions and I think when you have proven you are a jerk, through words and actions, then as a society we should shun you if you refuse to not be a hateful person.

At some point, that includes food and water - if you want to get the output of a community, then you should not be a jerk to that community, since that community can remove you and now you can learn to grow food and make electricity on your own.

Words and opinions are, in some cases, all we have to go on and in other cases, a direct precursor to actions, IME, so words are very important in the process.

What we are discssing here, speech in a video game run by a company, means that depriving someone of resources is to deprive them unltimately of being able to play the game.

 

I have lived with and around racists my enter life, I grew up in the deep south of the US and I have fought these people my whole life, not going to stop now, regardless of if some forum poster tries to make me feel bad by twisting my intent, even if my words are not always the best.

[Hypernaut1]

I'm laughing at people wanting to uninstall at just the idea of DE wanting to ban hate speech. Are you listening to yourselves?

"I'm angry and mad that you don't want people to be offended in your ingame region chat. So I won't play your game anymore."

WORST case scenario, chat becomes strictly about the game and in game issues. Best case scenario, we have a chat that's 99% pleasant to read. 

I would like if we could curse in region, but I'm not going to get upset about it. What is it about hate speech moderation that , ironically, offends some people so much? What negative political viewpoint is promoted by removing potentially abusive words? Can someone answer me this specifically without resorting to exaggerated hypothetical situations.

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Hypernaut1

[Fuzzorz]

As a white male who grew up as the only white kid within miles in a big city i only had asian,hispanic,african american friends. I was called honkey,white bread,cracker multiple times every day. No surprise those words offend me and I highly doubt those words are going to be in the ban list. "soup and 'crackers" = Ban? I'd rather put up with stupid people because i have thick skin from my experiences. If you consider this racist you need to step back and look at your own racism.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Cerikus said:

Of course. 100% true

But, you are the customer. You pick up the wallet and give the money and if you don't like something you have to say it. Why?

Because if all the people that don't agree with DEs approach pick option A, we can all say "byebye" to Warframe.

Rational thinking makes you select the right decision. 

 

DE has politically correct rules that somehow collide within themselves. This happens everywhere. A democratic system takes years for the depuration on the service of justice, takes centuries to be precise. Such systems of justice are based on precedents. Habits and uses defines the nature of these precedents. Moderation is contextual and so the rules. Concepts about the universal perception of justice doesn't exists. 

If I'm in the boat, I read the instruction manual. If I want to abandon ship, I simply grab my luggage and leave without making any sound. My wallet is my vote. It doesn't have to provide explanation answering the 'why'. If people ask then I answer if needed.   

 

[Corvid]

35 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Nope.

Jerks (in this case, racists/homophobes/etc.) are defined in our society by thier words and actions and I think when you have proven you are a jerk, through words and actions, then as a society we should shun you if you refuse to not be a hateful person.

Except you are claiming people to be jerks purely from their words, and calling for them to be cast out. Without chance for recourse, no less.

 

23 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

What is it about hate speech moderation that , ironically, offends some people so much?

Because hate speech is an ill-defined term that has wildly differing meanings depending on who you ask.

Likewise, offense is useless as a measure by which to determine whether something is right or wrong, as it is entirely arbitrary. Literally anything I can say, no matter how egalitarian, may be offensive to someone. Hell, to some people the fact that I exist at all is offensive.

I highly recommend giving the video I posted earlier in the thread (page 3, just over halfway down) a listen, as it makes the case for offense far better than I ever could.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Corvid

[Hypernaut1]

Just now, Corvid said:

Except you are claiming people to be jerks purely from their words, and calling for them to be cast out. Without chance for recourse, no less.

 

Because hate speech is an ill-defined term that has wildly differing meanings depending on who you ask.

Likewise, offense is useless as a measure by which to determine whether something is right or wrong, as it is entirely arbitrary. Literally anything I can say, no matter how egalitarian, may be offensive to someone. Hell, to some people the fact that I exist at all is offensive.

I highly recommend giving the video I posted earlier in the thread a listen, as it makes the case for offense far better than I ever could.

Again, I ask- what is it about hate speech moderation that offends people? Ok... It's ill defined. I get that. What exactly is offensive about some words not being allowed and what are those words? And how does the absence of those words imply support of something negative? 

I understand how people can be offended by DE donating to a cause (I don't agree, but I understand) but I don't understand how chat bans offend. 

Trap is an innocuous word to me, but I'm not "offended" that's it's banned. This is what's confusing me. Banning the word doesn't mean I'm less of a person, it doesn't oppress another group. 

[(XBOX)ALTBOULI]

9 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Just don't say offensive things in chat? I find it rather easy to avoid myself. I don't get why it's so hard for some people. 

It's a videogame chat. You'll be ok if you can't make edgy jokes to your hearts content here.  There are tons of other avenues to express yourself. DEs not entitled to host your opinions. 

This, not bothered with chat much aside from trade chat. Never had issues though

[Corvid]

3 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Again, I ask- what is it about hate speech moderation that offends people? Ok... It's ill defined. I get that. What exactly is offensive about some words not being allowed and what are those words? And how does the absence of those words imply support of something negative? 

I understand how people can be offended by DE donating to a cause (I don't agree, but I understand) but I don't understand how chat bans offend. 

Trap is an innocuous word to me, but I'm not "offended" that's it's banned. This is what's confusing me. Banning the word doesn't mean I'm less of a person, it doesn't oppress another group. 

 

11 minutes ago, Corvid said:

I highly recommend giving the video I posted earlier in the thread (page 3, just over halfway down) a listen, as it makes the case for offense far better than I ever could.

 

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

6 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Again, I ask- what is it about hate speech moderation that offends people? Ok... It's ill defined. I get that. What exactly is offensive about some words not being allowed and what are those words? And how does the absence of those words imply support of something negative? 

I understand how people can be offended by DE donating to a cause (I don't agree, but I understand) but I don't understand how chat bans offend. 

Trap is an innocuous word to me, but I'm not "offended" that's it's banned. This is what's confusing me. Banning the word doesn't mean I'm less of a person, it doesn't oppress another group. 

You keep asking how those of us against hate speech rules are offended by said rules. That's the problem: we aren't offended. We are concerned about the lack of clear and concise definitions, worried that these rules will hurt innocent people, and afraid of what other rules these rules might lead to, but not offended. That's why you are having a hard time understanding it.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

10 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Again, I ask- what is it about hate speech moderation that offends people? Ok... It's ill defined. I get that. What exactly is offensive about some words not being allowed and what are those words? And how does the absence of those words imply support of something negative? 

I understand how people can be offended by DE donating to a cause (I don't agree, but I understand) but I don't understand how chat bans offend. 

Trap is an innocuous word to me, but I'm not "offended" that's it's banned. This is what's confusing me. Banning the word doesn't mean I'm less of a person, it doesn't oppress another group. 

I see both sides. Hate speech is something that shouldn’t exist. But with the ever changing definition of what it is and what it is not it needs to be better defined to be enforced 

[[DE]Rebecca]

This thread has failed to remain respectful and is being locked. Please be excellent to each other, and understand that as a business we will make choices that we stand behind outside of the virtual world we've made. When it comes to the virtual world we have made, our policies are clear here: https://digitalextremes.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360043974052-Code-Of-Conduct-Respect-for-all-in-Warframe