ANother "Hard Mode Is Doing It Wrong" Thread :(

[nslay]

1 minute ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Well given that you're a clan mate my friend if you need a hand you can always jump in mission with me 🙂

I'm not honestly worried, if anything level 100 sortie bosses go down far too easily and there are many ways with which to increase damage, remove their defenses etc, I don't think it's going to be very difficult but I really hope that it is.

Did you see that Vay Hek video of Vay Hek eating dozens of 10k damage Shedu shots? This does not look like business as usual... I think normal Sortie Vay Hek is even easier than that! I certainly don't remember needing more than a few shots to kill him. The slowest one I've had to kill was Sortie Enemy Augmented Armor Lephantis.

Anyway, from what I've seen and heard... enemies look like they will definitely be more time consuming to kill (though not necessarily harder in AI terms!).

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 minutes ago, nslay said:

Did you see that Vay Hek video of Vay Hek eating dozens of 10k damage Shedu shots? This does not look like business as usual... I think normal Sortie Vay Hek is even easier than that! I certainly don't remember needing more than a few shots to kill him. The slowest one I've had to kill was Sortie Enemy Augmented Armor Lephantis.

Anyway, from what I've seen and heard... enemies look like they will definitely be more time consuming to kill (though not necessarily harder in AI terms!).

I mean it's a boss it should be harder, that's good if it actually takes more than 5 hits to kill a boss. No I  didn't see the video but did they bother removing his armour first? Vay hek with armour is tanky, without it he drops in seconds. Lephantis in sorties takes about 4 minutes. Next time it comes up try using either Chroma, Rhino or Nova for your dmg buff, then Arcane Velocity, Pyrana Prime modded for corrosive and slash and use temporal blast when the heada appesr. Tell me how hard once you've tried that. He melts in seconds because his dmg is based on a cap per hit and pyrana is a secondary shotgun so each pellet counts as a different dmg cap and he just drops. Not to mention Pyrana is also a high slash dmg weapon which he's weak to.

[nslay]

12 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

For AW concerns, Amesha makes Defense trivial, Interception is easy with Itzal, I mean what mission is actually going to be difficult?

Not difficult... just time consuming gunning down double health, Enemy Augmented Armor, +100 level Jordas Golem!

Plus all the other tanky Archwing enemies like Gox, Ogmas and the deadly Shield/Helion Dargyns (they fire missiles that hit hard and are relatively tanky).

EDIT: Added link. Not talking about ordinary Shield Dargyns... just the Helion Dargyn variants.

Edited June 30, 2020 by nslay

[-CdG-Zilchy]

6 minutes ago, nslay said:

Not difficult... just time consuming gunning down double health, Enemy Augmented Armor, +100 level Jordas Golem!

Plus all the other tanky Archwing enemies like Gox, Ogmas and the deadly Shield/Helion Dargyns (they fire missiles that hit hard and are relatively tanky).

EDIT: Added link. Not talking about ordinary Shield Dargyns... just the Helion Dargyn variants.

There's so many ways to strip armour in this game or increase your dmg by stupid amounts I just don't think they can make it difficult. And again, a boss SHOULD take more than 5 hits to die, that's a good thing. And again in AW, Amesha is immune to dmg and we have weapons that currently shred lvl 90 RJ enemies when it was released, BEFORE they nerfed them all. 

If it's hard, bring it on! Jordas Golem sortie just means he'll take more than 5 shots from a velocotua to kill, I welcome that.

And don't forget these streamers also claimed the Wolf fight was hard and yet he just wasn't... not with the right gear. It's harder to knock in a nail with a rock than with a hammer.

Edited June 30, 2020 by -CdG-Zilchy

[844448]

21 minutes ago, nslay said:

Not defending Brozime, but I'm seeing Vay Hek not dying in one or a few shots here. He's taking dozens and dozens of shots from a weapon that is dealing 10k+ per shot (after armor/damage reduction is considered!). That's both crazy and awesome!

EDIT: Look at this... that little butterfly drone Grineer toss is taking multiple hits from that Shedu without dying!

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Isn't that what people want from so many "too easy" and "no challenge" threads? Now it's a place where you need to use all of your gears to have a chance to win, isn't that what this community want?

8 minutes ago, nslay said:

Not difficult... just time consuming gunning down double health, Enemy Augmented Armor, +100 level Jordas Golem!

Last time I fought Jordas Golem, I wrecked that thing in less than two minutes so I'm going to find out how well I can go with double health, augmented armor +100 level Jordas Golem

[nslay]

1 minute ago, 844448 said:

Last time I fought Jordas Golem, I wrecked that thing in less than two minutes so I'm going to find out how well I can go with double health, augmented armor +100 level Jordas Golem

I have a feeling it might be as painful as gunning down normal Jordas Golem with an umodded Imperator (which I've experienced). I wouldn't be so bothered if we have more Archwing weapons... but we have very limited weapons and I think DE recently essentially nerfed them by making them match the atmosphere weapon stats (nobody noticed/cared, but I remember reading that in the patch notes!).

I will definitely be using Odonata's shield on this guy for the extra fire/crit damage. But yeah... I predict that he will be a boring bullet sponge.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

The whole fact he didn't bother stripping Vay Heks armour says it all for me. Of course he's tanky with armour...

[0_The_F00l]

Well , we don't yet have it , so there is little point in complaining.

We can criticize and try to give feedback though also you are looking at things in vacuum and not holistically.

 

As to the main concern raised

The increase is only drop chance,

paired with an increase in armor and shields,

So you may have double the chance of getting something (yay 0.4 % instead of 0.2 %)

but you also have enemies that have most definitely more than double the TTK (5000 EHP vs 50000 EHP at times)

So as a matter of fact , there really is no incentive for drops , there is only incentive for challenge and cosmetic.

 

And i am personally ok with that.

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Just now, nslay said:

I have a feeling it might be as painful as gunning down normal Jordas Golem with an umodded Imperator (which I've experienced). I wouldn't be so bothered if we have more Archwing weapons... but we have very limited weapons and I think DE recently essentially nerfed them by making them match the atmosphere weapon stats (nobody noticed/cared, but I remember reading that in the patch notes!).

I will definitely be using Odonata's shield on this guy for the extra fire/crit damage. But yeah... I predict that he will be a boring bullet sponge.

You should give Phaedra a go, it shreds.

[nslay]

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

The whole fact he didn't bother stripping Vay Heks armour says it all for me. Of course he's tanky with armour...

He's got 10 stacked Corrosive Procs on Vay Hek (and sometimes fire procs which also strip armor). Unless Vay Hek is somehow immune to those Corrosive Procs, his armor was 80%+ stripped.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, nslay said:

He's got 10 stacked Corrosive Procs on Vay Hek (and sometimes fire procs which also strip armor). Unless Vay Hek is somehow immune to those Corrosive Procs, his armor was 80%+ stripped.

Because he still has armour. The way that DE has armour mechanics working unless you're doing it to gain a weappn bonus vs the armour type, you really have to 100% strip it to see a noticeable difference. 

[Sadraven]

1 hour ago, 844448 said:

When Brozime said Vay Hek has too much EHP and we have this

On 2020-06-29 at 8:01 AM, ZetekP said:

I doubt the builds that people are going in with, for example, those people who have been timed out by veyhek, why can someone do it in 5 minutes?

https://youtu.be/RjC0DpWQG6Q

Your claim about Brozime being a pretty damn good player is debatable

Yep that's a nice build to use in hardmode. Oh wait, what build?

I can assume it's godlike riven and macro/scroll wheel used to shoot. If we're going in to territory of roflcopters, next will be screams "nerf Maiming strike! Ban all macro and scroll wheel users. No rivens in hardmode!".

And if only few weapons will be usable, that weapons could be claimed overused and we know what will happen with "overused" weapons.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Sadraven

[nslay]

9 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

Because he still has armour. The way that DE has armour mechanics working unless you're doing it to gain a weappn bonus vs the armour type, you really have to 100% strip it to see a noticeable difference. 

Welp, I'll get to use my Corrosive/Heat Shattering Impact Sarpa in these missions too! Though it doesn't do much for damage given I modded it purely for armor strip (to use on high level PoE drop ships).

EDIT: So, will a squad of 4 be able to efficiently take down a level 150 Teralyst with double health, armor and shields in a timely fashion? Are open worlds Hard Mode too?

Honestly... I think DE should call this "Bullet Sponge Mode" because it's all the same. Just takes longer to kill stuff. And I'm being serious about the name (why not? Pretty descriptive right?).

Edited June 30, 2020 by nslay

[-CdG-Zilchy]

13 minutes ago, nslay said:

Welp, I'll get to use my Corrosive/Heat Shattering Impact Sarpa in these missions too! Though it doesn't do much for damage given I modded it purely for armor strip (to use on high level PoE drop ships).

EDIT: So, will a squad of 4 be able to efficiently take down a level 150 Teralyst with double health, armor and shields in a timely fashion? Are open worlds Hard Mode too?

Honestly... I think DE should call this "Bullet Sponge Mode" because it's all the same. Just takes longer to kill stuff. And I'm being serious about the name (why not? Pretty descriptive right?).

Currently there's no high level eidolons which is a shame. But yeh, you shouldn't be using Sarpa for dmg anyway lol, bring a gun...

And I did say that in another thread that the only thing that changes with enemy level 10 or enemy level 9999, once you understand how to become invincible, defend an objective permanently etc, the only thing that changes is TTK aka time to kill. But it's not going to be hard mate, simple as that.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Another question Nslay, we've already established they weren't stripping the armour fully. Were any of these streamers using a CO primer since they're not bringing a sarpa? Cos 10k per hit is not much.

Edited June 30, 2020 by -CdG-Zilchy

[SenorClipClop]

This is why DE has started doing Test Clusters for upcoming features. People play it, they have feedback, DE watches their in-game habits, and they adjust the game before release.

We can also expect adjustments after release.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 minutes ago, SenorClipClop said:

This is why DE has started doing Test Clusters for upcoming features. People play it, they have feedback, DE watches their in-game habits, and they adjust the game before release.

We can also expect adjustments after release.

One of the big problems however is that they won't include any of the exploiters/bug finders/call us what you want etc because it'll get released, glitches and exploits will be found, it'll get spread around on videos and then they'll have to adjust their hardmode yet again. 

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

I play games as stress relief and i don't really need more resources.  Glyphs, achievements, titles, emote, etc. Don't interest me.

Seems like hard mode isn't something I'll bother with.

Unless theres cosmetics like syandanas, skins, armor atatchments, and ephemeras.

I suggested before have badges and a vendor we can nab useful stuff from.  Kuva, endo, potatoes, nitrain are all examples of useful items said vendor could have.

Edited June 30, 2020 by (PS4)Kakurine2

[-CdG-Zilchy]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Kakurine2 said:

I suggested before have badges and a vendor we can nab useful stuff from.  Kuva, endo, potatoes, nitrain are sll examples of useful items said vendor could have.

We already have Arbitrations and Nightwave for all of that.

[(PSN)Kakurine2]

3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

We already have Arbitrations and Nightwave for all of that.

And how many actually spam them? Certainly not me. Or folks like me.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Kakurine2 said:

And how many actually spam them? Certainly not me. Or folks like me.

Arbitrations? Plenty of people. Nightwave, most people will complete enough that they reach rank 30 which means they have enough credits to buy some stuff.

[Chicken-Biryani]

Why can't people simply embrace solo or pre-made squad options, instead of changing the whole world to suit them. (Because it wouldn't, stupid people exist, trolls exist and toxicity also exists.)

[MageSkeleton]

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

That... just sounds annoying. To quote Hugo Martin, Creative Director of 2016's DOOM and DOOM Eternal, "Anyone can make a hard game, hitscan enemies and just a ton of damage... we wanna give you something to master, because the power fantasy that is earned is far more satisfying than the one that is just handed to you."

I don't particularly want bullet sponges to be the default going forward (For a challenge mode like Steel Path, fine, but not for 'regular' content), nor do I want hitscan aimbots, because you can't master that, it's not an interesting challenge where you're making interesting decisions. It's just numbers at the end of the day. I respect that Warframe used to be a stealth/action hybrid. I respect that combat against large groups wasn't really supposed to be your modus operandi - hence why enemies were so hyper lethal. But for better or worse, that is not the game we have today. And I absolutely want a fair challenge, but that fair challenge needs to be made for the game we have, not the game it was.

Your right, though i will say what i typed sounded better in my head i do feel the thought didn't get conveyed right. Of all these comments i hope DE read yours because i feel like the community can get behind this message.

[Fallen77]

Il y a 15 heures, Lutesque a dit :

Yes... another one of these things...

Okay I just watched Brozime's Summary of his Expeience with Hard Mode.... aaaaaaaand.... The way that they have it set up feels like its just for players who want more Reources... not for people who actually want a Challenge.

The Incentive to do Hard mode I feel like is going to go the way of Arbitrations. Veteran Players arent going to do it for the Challenge, but Intermediate players are going to do it just because they need more Endo, or because they want Condition Overload to drop...

And naturally that means you can expect all the Bad stuff from other modes like Eidolon Hunts and Arbitrations, like The Toxicity and Elitism to come to Hard Mode in full force, which is then going to lead into more complains to make Hard Mode Easier. 

I never asked for Hard Mode... what I wanted was a Source for Affinity and Endo Farming.... however it seems like Il be doing Hard Mode just to get that because this problem is still not Fixed in the Regular Star Chart.I cant wait to ruin everyones Experience hard mode in game with my Noobishness :)

There is already elitism everywhere, even in low level starchart missions, this won't change a thing. There are gonna be nice people, and there are gonna be mad people.

They always said that it would not be anything huge, just same missions with higher level and a bit more buck for our time.

[vegetosayajin]

9 hours ago, -SicMundusCreatusEst- said:

Hard mode is meant for veteran players who knows how to play this game.

This mode is not going to offer anything else than the normal mode does (for now).

I'm sure that anyway people will complain for any kind of rewards that they are going to offer. 

Is not that time yet.

Chill.

Most veteran players are bored, +1 gazillion armour and shields won't change that.