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Hot take: The reason so many players are frustrated with nerfs and want to be unkillable demigods is because the base gameplay of Warframe isn't fun anymore.


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9 hours ago, SparklyDrew said:

If you compare a vanilla crewman to a Juno crewman, the Juno crewman shoots his Dera (is it a dera i forget) like a laser while the old dude hits less than half his shots

but it still doesn't hurt, that's the problem 🙂 But yeh I get what you mean there.  I did most of Steel Path with a squishy nova and had no problems with the occasional shots that hit me. Most of the time they were either slowed down or already dead to do any damage. There's so many methods of damage reduction in this game and so many methods of 1 shotting enemies regardless of level, most of them don't have a chance to even hurt us.

Edited by -CdG-Zilchy
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In agreement with OP in essence .

The game has just gotten drawn into the dumb spiral of powercreep,

Its a problem of DEs own making though the players are not completely blameless.

 

THE MASSES STOOD UP AND DEMANDED "GIVE US POWER"

THE POWERS THAT BE OBLIGED AND POWER WAS GIVEN TO THE MASSES!

POWER TO SOW AND TO REAP,

POWER OVER LIFE AND POWER OVER DEATH!|
POWER ENOUGH THAT NOTHING COULD STOP THEM!
ALL WAS WELL FOR A WHILE,

THEN THE MASSES STOOD AND DEMANDED AGAIN :" GIVE US SUBJECTS AND ENEMIES TO EXERCISE OUR POWER"

THE POWERS THAT BE OBLIGED AGAIN,

ENEMIES WERE MADE ABLE TO WITHSTAND THE POWER ,

ALL WAS WELL FOR A WHILE!

THEN THE MASSES STOOD AGAIN AND SAID , THESE ENEMIES DEMAND MORE POWER FROM US!

SO WE DEMAND MORE POWER FROM YOU!

THE POWER  THAT BE OBLIGED AND GRANTED THE MASSES EVEN MORE POWER,

THE ENEMIES OF EARLIER WERE SWIFTLY CUT DOWN,

THE MASSES DEMANDED MORE ENEMIES TO TEST THEIR POWER AGAIN!

THE POWERS THAT BE GREW TIERED OF THESE PERSISTENT UNGRATEFUL MASSES,

THEY MADE AN ENEMY THAT COULD TAKE AWAY THE POWERS!

THE MASSES GROANED THE POWERS IGNORED THE GROANS!

AS IT SHOULD BE!

THE MASSES GROANED LOUDER !

THE POWERS THAT BE IGNORED THEM STILL!

THE MASSES STOPED PRAYING AT THE ALTARS OF PLATINUM!

THE POWERS THAT BE GREW WEAKER!

THEY KNEW THEY COULD NOT EXIST IN THIS WAY!

THEY TRIED TO MAKE THE MASSES FIGHT EACH OTHER, BUT THEY FAILED!

THEY TRIED TO MAKE THE STRUGGLES LONGER!

THIS ONLY MADE THE MASSES JUST PAY OTHERS TO PRAY OR SHARED IN THEIR PRAYERS WHILE THEY DID NOTHING!

AND TO THIS DAY THEY ONLY INCREASE THE STRUGGLE AS ANY MORE POWER AND THEY MIGHT AS WELL ALLOW THEM TO CAST OBLIVION!

AND SO IT IS! AND SO IT IS!

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

but it still doesn't hurt, that's the problem 🙂

Let's say you really like Banshee, you take her and a Bramma into a Steel Path Corpus ship capture. You shoot your Bramma at the capture target, get knocked back and before you can do anything a single enemy burned through your adaptation and killed you. Okay, I can fix that by not using a Bramma and equipping Sure Footed or Handspring etc., but now I think I should have that on every frame to stop that from happening. Why should I have to do that? It's anti fun to force me to play a certain way or take up one of my mod slots with an indispensable mod. It's the entire reason they removed Itzal's blink and yet countless other examples of choice elimination are being actively added into the game.

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vor 7 Minuten schrieb -CdG-Zilchy:

Well there's always using mods ie Primed sure footed or handspring if you don't have that. Or you can simply CC them, prevent them escalating by shooting the very obvious beacons etc, both approaches work. But see, that's my point, it's so damn easy to overcome obstacles in this game, it just takes a little game knowledge.

Yeah, I have all the stuff and know about this, but imo the fight can only be properly done by a few frames. I think, it's simply annoying. 

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40 minutes ago, SparklyDrew said:

As it stands right now, the only reason to play the Steel Path is for completion. Once a player has finished the Steel Path, there is no reason to do any mission at +100 level because the rewards aren't there at all.

This is incredibly wrong. Steel Path endurance survival is the meta kuva farm for profitable riven trading, and not everyone plays for "rewards" over gameplay. I find myself replaying a number of Steel Path missions because I enjoy core WF gameplay against non-trivial enemies, using all the different toys in the WF sandbox. I prefer not to treat my game like an extremely low-paying job.

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9 hours ago, (XB1)Kuhl MC said:

Yeah, I have all the stuff and know about this, but imo the fight can only be properly done by a few frames. I think, it's simply annoying. 

There's a fellow who's made videos of doing the fight solo with almost every frame. Profit Taker is one of the very few skill check bosses in the game, it's tough to use less appropriate frames but it's not impossible. With a good frame it's over in about 3 minutes, it's not as hard as it looks, it's all about management.

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vor 1 Minute schrieb SparklyDrew:

Let's say you really like Banshee, you take her and a Bramma into a Steel Path Corpus ship capture. You shoot your Bramma at the capture target, get knocked back and before you can do anything a single enemy burned through your adaptation and killed you. Okay, I can fix that by not using a Bramma and equipping Sure Footed or Handspring etc., but now I think I should have that on every frame to stop that from happening. Why should I have to do that? It's anti fun to force me to play a certain way or take up one of my mod slots with an indispensable mod. It's the entire reason they removed Itzal's blink and yet countless other examples of choice elimination are being actively added into the game.

Not to mention, that you can forget about using your sentients on the new Corpus ships in SP; the enemies will kill them three times in under 2 minutes, as everything seems to be shooting at them nowadays... Kavats get the job done, though. 

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What I would like to see is 100x enemy spawn.  I'm talking single space marine in the middle of a full blown Tyranid swarm or ork WAAAGH kind of spawn rate. Like so many coming at me that when I reload I run the risk of getting knocked down and never being able to get back up. That would be fun and more difficult at the same time.

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3 minutes ago, -CdG-Zilchy said:

There's a fellow who's made videos of doing the fight solo with almost every frame. Profit Taker is one of the very few skill check bosses in the game, it's tough to use less appropriate frames but it's not impossible. With a good frame it's over in about 3 minutes, it's not as hard as it looks, it's all about management.

It's not impossible but it certainly isn't my idea of fun. That's not the reason I play Warframe and I shouldn't have to play perfectly in a game where a bombard shot can hit you through Cataclysm at random.

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33 minutes ago, SparklyDrew said:

I specifically said I could only speak for myself, pretty cold take. Side note: Fun is also completely subjective.

I'm in a low pop area so when I farm it's solo and from my experience the spawns in OV are either the entire map or next to no enemies, but this is kinda not the point of the post. Since Warframe is a horde shooter, if more and more enemies are just noping your abilities or damage then your individual power is reduced by like an order of magnitude. It would be unreasonable to want to keep track of every enemy around you at all times in a horde shooter, but when each enemy needs to be individually countered or when multiple enemies can do CC that needs to be actively avoided or is straight unavoidable in a horde scenario (I'm looking at you scorpions) it really wears me down. If you don't mind it then there's not much I can say.

The thing is the game gives you tools to mitigate these issues or almost remove them entirely (or at least trivialize them). Instead of using these tools, it sounds like you are instead asking for more nerfs to the enemies.

And then complaining the game is unfun. I'm not even sure what to say. This is really the exact attitude ruining the game. 

Edited by Tesseract7777
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2 minutes ago, Wearbe said:

What I would like to see is 100x enemy spawn.  I'm talking single space marine in the middle of a full blown Tyranid swarm or ork WAAAGH kind of spawn rate. Like so many coming at me that when I reload I run the risk of getting knocked down and never being able to get back up. That would be fun and more difficult at the same time.

I would love to take my Eternal War Valkyr and Kronen Prime through a 100x like infested survival, sounds like a blast. 

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27 минут назад, -CdG-Zilchy сказал:

Sorry I'm trying to think what you mean, can you elaborate please?  the only enemy I can think of that's actually irritating is the damn Grineer Commander that likes to switch teleport you.

for comparison sake try to play Steel Path Pluto, corpus outpost first, then corpus ship. You will notice that mobs on corpus ship have better accuracy. They basically fire at the player before he even shows up. DE supposed to get rid of this "feature" and they did for the majority of starchart, but they forget to adjust mobs on new corpus ship.

You can notice that mobs aimboting on the regular starchart when you play corpus ship, but on the Steel Path it becomes obvious because their level is higher.

26 минут назад, -CdG-Zilchy сказал:

occasional shots that hit me.

the thing is, Steel Path highlights all the flaws of the game. Hard CC, armor reduction, damage buff is a "must".

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9 hours ago, Kel_Silonius said:

for comparison sake try to play Steel Path Pluto, corpus outpost first, then corpus ship. You will notice that mobs on corpus ship have better accuracy. They basically fire at the player before he even shows up. DE supposed to get rid of this "feature" and they did for the majority of starchart, but they forget to adjust mobs on new corpus ship.

You can notice that mobs aimboting on the regular starchart when you play corpus ship, but on the Steel Path it becomes obvious because their level is higher.

the thing is, Steel Path highlights all the flaws of the game. Hard CC, armor reduction, damage buff is a "must".

I see. Well fair enough I honestly didn't notice but I'll take your word for it. I did most of Steel Path with Nova and Kronen prime with 2 forma in it. Not what I would call particularly gear intensive.

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48 minutes ago, SparklyDrew said:

Once a player has finished the Steel Path, there is no reason to do any mission at +100 level because the rewards aren't there at all.

Affinity, some resource farms, basically you can go 10 waves Helene solo and max out because there are no teammates who could leave early to waste your time.

Also, more Orokin Cells, i used to have tons of it, but constantly crafting Forma eats OC like it wasn't even there.

It might also make the Hema grind a little more tolerable with increased Mutagen Sample drops.

Also Railjack was a massive girthy middle finger to solo players, as is the rest of the game and I'm sick of that.

I agree 100%, why can't we just play these with Archwings and normal Archwing stats?

Clan players have their toys they wanted now, designing a game mode around excluding solo players is rude, i haven't touched this mode since release, partly because it was horrible back then, partly because i'm disgusted by this.

Allowing the use of Archwings only would be such an easy fix.

 

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1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

The thing is the game gives you tools to mitigate these issues or almost remove them entirely (or at least trivialize them). Instead of using these tools, it sounds like you are instead asking for more nerfs to the enemies.

And then complaining the game is unfun. I'm not even sure what to say. 

I don't think you understand where I'm coming from, maybe my original post was to rambling, I never asked for enemy nerfs. Of course every form of CC or irritating enemy can be at least mitigated. We would have a huge issue if there wasn't. The issue I have is that they force a certain playstyle, loadout or squad comp. Of course I'm not saying that I should expect to be able to take a Mag Eidolon farming. But for example if you consistently get killed because of knockdowns to the point that Handspring becomes the meta to have on every one of your frames (except Atlas) then why don't frames just recover faster in the first place? 

As a side note Nullifiers have no "counter" I mean ffs sake the brammas arrows BOUNCE off the shield

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9 hours ago, (XB1)Kuhl MC said:

Not to mention, that you can forget about using your sentients on the new Corpus ships in SP; the enemies will kill them three times in under 2 minutes, as everything seems to be shooting at them nowadays... Kavats get the job done, though. 

You can take an unkillable Djinn if that's an issue. My Helios survived almost every mission, not sure why people were having there one die. I can only assume they weren't killing the enemies near them quickly enough.

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Because if a developer forces the players to have an easy game, they will be addicted to play an easy game for the rest of its development. It's really humiliating for a players being part of a childish community ranting every time for a stupid Balancement(not a nerf) when the real problem is the game being stupidly easy.

 

A balanced game means  you can't smoke a cigarette or watch the television even during  an easy mission. 

A balance game means almost all frames should have an equal utility power. Creating God single OP frames is just an idiocy.

Most of some weapons and abilities are just OP compared to other ones.

A balanced game doesn't mean i have to make speedruns following someone with ember or equinox destroying everything like in The Benny Hill Show..

 

If i was the developer:

1) i don't conditioned players to play a game without any challenge from the beginning.

2) I banned for life everyone threats to leave a game because they can't have their broken toys.

 

Edited by bibmobello
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2 minutes ago, kgabor said:

Affinity, some resource farms, basically you can go 10 waves Helene solo and max out because there are no teammates who could leave early to waste your time.

Also, more Orokin Cells, i used to have tons of it, but constantly crafting Forma eats OC like it wasn't even there.

It might also make the Hema grind a little more tolerable with increased Mutagen Sample drops.

For me farming affinity slower on non steel path while being able to watch a stream on my second monitor and relax beats having to actively try to survive while leveling things, same reason for farming resources. It's just less effort to farm on base star chart and let's be real here, the resource or affinity increase on the Steel path is nowhere near game changing. 

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vor 6 Minuten schrieb -CdG-Zilchy:

You can take an unkillable Djinn if that's an issue. My Helios survived almost every mission, not sure why people were having there one die. I can only assume they weren't killing the enemies near them quickly enough.

Hmm, not meant to sound rude, but maybe try playing those missions without Nova to see what I mean 😉 It's simply ridiculous compared to all factions on any other tileset.

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9 hours ago, SparklyDrew said:

 

For me farming affinity slower on non steel path while being able to watch a stream on my second monitor and relax beats having to actively try to survive while leveling things, same reason for farming resources. It's just less effort to farm on base star chart and let's be real here, the resource or affinity increase on the Steel path is nowhere near game changing. 

With all due respect, you seem like a very lazy player. Which is kinda what is the problem with the game, the fact that nobody wants to actually earn their rewards.

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9 hours ago, (XB1)Kuhl MC said:

Hmm, not meant to sound rude, but maybe try playing those missions without Nova to see what I mean 😉 It's simply ridiculous compared to all factions on any other tileset.

Fair enough, I might give it a crack.

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5 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

Because if a developer forces the players to have an easy game, they will be addicted to play an easy game for the rest of its development. It's really humiliating for a players being part of a childish community ranting every time for a stupid Balancement(not a nerf) when the real problem is the game being stupidly easy.

The game isn't inherently easy unless you play in specific ways. Choice elimination is the root of the problem.

6 minutes ago, bibmobello said:

If i was the developer:

1) i don't conditioned players to play a game without any challenge from the beginning.

2) I banned for life everyone threats to leave a game because they can't have their broken toys.

Is Warframe a game where the majority of it's playerbase is actively seeking challenging content? I think if it was that it would be a dead game since as you pointed out, it's stupidly easy. I hope I don't play a game where the developers ban players for having constructive discussions? 

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