The Granum Void is still awful.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

I finished Protea and I swore I'd never touch the Granum Void again unless you decided to make it so that I needed to.  Well I'm farming a second Protea for subsuming and I'm back in here and my RNG is even worse than last time.  The spawns seem to actually work now, so it's easy.  The missions are star chart missions so they're easy.

The problem is that all her parts have way less drop chance than other frames parts.  There have been many people making threads questioning if the drop tables are even correct because of how stupid rare her drops are.  Why?  Why does it have to be a pain in the ass?  The rewards from this mode are trash.  It's credits and endo that I can get from anywhere, a literal blank reward because you don't get anything for the Mortuus armor if you already have it, some captura scenes, weapon parts that everyone has 400 copies of and Protea, whose parts never drop.  The entire reward table is things that should be in a vendor somewhere. 

Grind only feels good when you can actually make some kind of progress.  Grind that has no progress until you get literally the only RNG drop you need feels horrible.  It's pointless mission after pointless mission, with it becoming ever more frustrating every time you don't get the only thing you're there for.  If you're going to make her parts this frustrating to get you could at least make the credits and endo really substantial, or put something that you need more than a couple of in the drop table so that you're getting something worthwhile from the countless runs where her parts refuse to drop.

[LordPantaloonsthe3rd]

I didnt have too bad of luck farming her but i dont enjoy the mode at all so i wont be farming her again.

[DrivaMain]

You should be grateful it's 11.28%. I feel that is "too generous" on DE standards.

Who thought making the spectres status immune is a good idea? this mode is literally "Just use MESA LUL" due to the bad spawns and the lack of extra time pickups.

[Lutesque]

14 minutes ago, DrivaMain said:

You should be grateful it's 11.28%. I feel that is "too generous" on DE standards.

You should never be Grateful for RNG...

 

[EinheriarJudith]

9 hours ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

I finished Protea and I swore I'd never touch the Granum Void again unless you decided to make it so that I needed to.  Well I'm farming a second Protea for subsuming and I'm back in here and my RNG is even worse than last time.  The spawns seem to actually work now, so it's easy.  The missions are star chart missions so they're easy.

The problem is that all her parts have way less drop chance than other frames parts.  There have been many people making threads questioning if the drop tables are even correct because of how stupid rare her drops are.  Why?  Why does it have to be a pain in the ass?  The rewards from this mode are trash.  It's credits and endo that I can get from anywhere, a literal blank reward because you don't get anything for the Mortuus armor if you already have it, some captura scenes, weapon parts that everyone has 400 copies of and Protea, whose parts never drop.  The entire reward table is things that should be in a vendor somewhere. 

Grind only feels good when you can actually make some kind of progress.  Grind that has no progress until you get literally the only RNG drop you need feels horrible.  It's pointless mission after pointless mission, with it becoming ever more frustrating every time you don't get the only thing you're there for.  If you're going to make her parts this frustrating to get you could at least make the credits and endo really substantial, or put something that you need more than a couple of in the drop table so that you're getting something worthwhile from the countless runs where her parts refuse to drop.

agreed. time to move away from these ridiculous drop tables and move to a credit system. id rather grind currency to then buy what i want. time still spent without any of the RNG.

[DoomFruit]

5 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

agreed. time to move away from these ridiculous drop tables and move to a credit system. id rather grind currency to then buy what i want. time still spent without any of the RNG.

Beware of what you wish for. DE are basically a monkey paw - any wish you make, they'll find a way to corrupt it to screw you over. If what you "want" there comes true, you'd be facing Hema levels of grind for everything.

[EinheriarJudith]

1 hour ago, DoomFruit said:

Beware of what you wish for. DE are basically a monkey paw - any wish you make, they'll find a way to corrupt it to screw you over. If what you "want" there comes true, you'd be facing Hema levels of grind for everything.

so true. but then isnt it on us to not let DE get away with shady tactics? if they intentionally go out of their way to make their community/player base suffer, we should rake them over some very hot coals. we arent their slaves and they dont pay us even to test their game.

[RazerXPrime]

Definitely not doing the void again. Was painful enough the first time. I don't care for doing it again.

15 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

agreed. time to move away from these ridiculous drop tables and move to a credit system. id rather grind currency to then buy what i want. time still spent without any of the RNG.

So people would play only Index? I dislike RNG, but making the game so only 1 single mode will be played is even worse.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

7 minutes ago, RazerXPrime said:

Definitely not doing the void again. Was painful enough the first time. I don't care for doing it again.

So people would play only Index? I dislike RNG, but making the game so only 1 single mode will be played is even worse.

Not that kind of currency.  Some other games have a token system.  Think about it like this.  You fight a boss, it might have RNG drops but it always drops a token as well.  If you kill this boss say, 15 times without getting the drop you want, you have 15 of that boss' tokens and some vendor somewhere has that item you want from the boss available for 15 tokens.  It's a safety net so that the RNG of "10 runs expected for a nearly guaranteed drop" can't screw over people who happen to have a bad run of luck.  Because RNG and expected/average runs don't always work.  There will always be THAT guy (who is already in this thread.) who dismisses your point because "I got everything in the minimum number of runs, git gud" as if RNG has anything to do with skill or can be blamed on anyone but lazy or predatory devs.  That guy's luck is not the norm.

I helped an alliance member get Zephyr Prime from my stockpiles of vaulted relics last week.  I have hundreds and I don't hoard relics on purpose so I didn't mind.  But it took literally over 50 relics, mostly radiant, before Zephyr's BP dropped.  Bad luck happens, and quite often it happens to the same people repeatedly, like we've all got some invisible luck stat IRL.  RNG should never be allowed to screw people over this hard, and when it does, real money currency should not be the only answer.

[RazerXPrime]

1 minute ago, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said:

Not that kind of currency.  Some other games have a token system.  Think about it like this.  You fight a boss, it might have RNG drops but it always drops a token as well.  If you kill this boss say, 15 times without getting the drop you want, you have 15 of that boss' tokens and some vendor somewhere has that item you want from the boss available for 15 tokens.  It's a safety net so that the RNG of "10 runs expected for a nearly guaranteed drop" can't screw over people who happen to have a bad run of luck.  Because RNG and expected/average runs don't always work.  There will always be THAT guy (who is already in this thread.) who dismisses your point because "I got everything in the minimum number of runs, git gud" as if RNG has anything to do with skill or can be blamed on anyone but lazy or predatory devs.  That guy's luck is not the norm.

I helped an alliance member get Zephyr Prime from my stockpiles of vaulted relics last week.  I have hundreds and I don't hoard relics on purpose so I didn't mind.  But it took literally over 50 relics, mostly radiant, before Zephyr's BP dropped.  Bad luck happens, and quite often it happens to the same people repeatedly, like we've all got some invisible luck stat IRL.  RNG should never be allowed to screw people over this hard, and when it does, real money currency should not be the only answer.

Ok that sounds much better yea. Although I still think there should just be story quests for each frame where you unlock the entire thing by playing the quest. No RNG, just doing a story. Would feel much better to me.

[(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan]

Perfect example of how hilariously bad the RNG in this game is.  I'm running Sarge for Protea parts.  I've gotten the same Mag part and the exact same 3 rewards from the Granum void 3 4 times in a row now.  The odds of that happening should be less than the odds of having gotten the Protea part I need by now, but here we are.

I'm actually running a T2 crown on a T1 mission because I have several and it's faster.  I'm starting to think my drop table is bugged because of the mismatch.

[DoomFruit]

11 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

so true. but then isnt it on us to not let DE get away with shady tactics? if they intentionally go out of their way to make their community/player base suffer, we should rake them over some very hot coals. we arent their slaves and they dont pay us even to test their game.

This is true, and I'm getting more and more annoyed with what they're doing as time goes on, but I long since lost any illusion that the playerbase has any meaningful input on anything here.

Maybe I'm just too jaded and cynical at this point. I already have pretty much zero interest in this year's "big" release due to a) all previous "big" releases being buggy, unbalanced and blatantly untested crap and b) the latest graphical changes are at best obnoxious and at worst actively painful. I find it so very hard to care about the actual game any more.

[EinheriarJudith]

7 hours ago, RazerXPrime said:

Definitely not doing the void again. Was painful enough the first time. I don't care for doing it again.

So people would play only Index? I dislike RNG, but making the game so only 1 single mode will be played is even worse.

i dont mean credits as in the credits that you get from index. im talking about currency like faction currency riven slivers, cred etc.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

The Protea grind loop wasn't as bad as I thought, each run takes like 4-5min including a Treasurer kill, there's no standing around waiting for dialogue or dropships or whatever (e.g. Exploiter Orb, Ambulas, Tyl Regor). The Granum Void is still awful though because of the way it spawns such small numbers of enemies so far away from each other and the player. This is obviously mitigated by Mesa, but it otherwise creates the sort of situation where the player finds themselves failing an objective because they couldn't find enough enemies to kill, utterly pathetic design for a horde shooter.

[ArmlessDan]

My group and I have been trying to get Protea parts for the better part of two weeks now. We can't access the Granum Void more than half the time (the golden hands just flat out don't work) and we frustratingly fail the mission a lot because the specters don't spawn frequently enough and they don't drop extra time. We are grouped up to increase the spawns and we free the Solaris captives most of the time, but the specters just don't spawn enough and we run out of time. We have done this at least 30 times and we have only gotten one part so far. This all seems especially brutal.

[Rovaeden]

This is just another example of a free to play game with a design philosophy of
"the more we make them play and the more frustrating we make the drop chances, the more plat they will buy"

PERIOD.

The fix?
TAKE YOUR TIME AND MONEY ELSEWHERE!

 

[A-Midnight-Shanking]

13 Velox Barrels.

10 Stahlta Receivers.

8 Stropha Barrels.

12 Stropha Blades.

0 Protea Neuroptics.

I was lucky that I got the other parts within the first 15 runs each.

I'm starting to remember why I quit this game in the first place. It's not even time gated, it's pay-2-play.

[A-Midnight-Shanking]

And of course it's the first round after I complain that I get the Neuroptics...

To get all Protea parts it took me a few more than 72 runs of the Granum Void across all tiers (Mortus Guards don't show duplicates)

Xoris can be used to clear it in about 1:00-1:30, and average overall mission time was 3:00-6:00 each. Pure mission time was around 5 hrs over two days.

Time to wait 4 days for it to finish building.

And in the end I'm going to level and subsume the frame...

And farm it again I guess.

(Only saving grace is I don't mind getting the Granum Crown decorations, wish they had a higher drop rate.)

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, A-Midnight-Shanking said:

I'm starting to remember why I quit this game in the first place. It's not even time gated, it's pay-2-play.

Or Pay to Skip....

Or Pay to To Get Bent Over...

Warframe has all kinds of Obscure Payment Options....

1 hour ago, A-Midnight-Shanking said:

And of course it's the first round after I complain that I get the Neuroptics...

I guess that means you'll be sticking around 😁 !!!

 

[Kingsmount]

WTF, is this broken or what?  I've gone back to back time after time and I keep getting nothing but Barrels and Receivers, and even a Granum Decoration when I didn't fail, I got all 3 ranks.     NEITHER of the things I need will drop, the Neuroptics OR the Stropha Blade. 

 

BS like this is why I always end up quitting for months every time I return.   Ffs, RNG is awful game design, yet DE layers it on top of itself or has some of the worst RNG in any game I've played.

It actively feels like DE has Anti-Bad Luck Protection.  Deliberately avoiding drops you don't have yet.

 

And there's never enough freaking spawns to do this stupid thing in Public missions.   EVERY public run I've ever tired failed and you have to jump across the entire damn map looking for spawns of 1-2 at a time. ffs. 

 

 

  

On 2020-08-22 at 12:12 AM, (XBOX)TehChubbyDugan said:

Not that kind of currency.  Some other games have a token system.  Think about it like this.  You fight a boss, it might have RNG drops but it always drops a token as well.  If you kill this boss say, 15 times without getting the drop you want, you have 15 of that boss' tokens and some vendor somewhere has that item you want from the boss available for 15 tokens.  It's a safety net so that the RNG of "10 runs expected for a nearly guaranteed drop" can't screw over people who happen to have a bad run of luck.  Because RNG and expected/average runs don't always work.  There will always be THAT guy (who is already in this thread.) who dismisses your point because "I got everything in the minimum number of runs, git gud" as if RNG has anything to do with skill or can be blamed on anyone but lazy or predatory devs.  That guy's luck is not the norm.

I helped an alliance member get Zephyr Prime from my stockpiles of vaulted relics last week.  I have hundreds and I don't hoard relics on purpose so I didn't mind.  But it took literally over 50 relics, mostly radiant, before Zephyr's BP dropped.  Bad luck happens, and quite often it happens to the same people repeatedly, like we've all got some invisible luck stat IRL.  RNG should never be allowed to screw people over this hard, and when it does, real money currency should not be the only answer.

 

This needs to happen.   This game cripplingly needs some form of Bad Luck Protection, as most games that care about player health, sanity, and retention have. 

They effectively did this with the Sentient Ship. 

This would be a great thing to do with Darvo, Maroo, Little Duck, and one of the Entrati.   Darvo sells Grineer token items, Maroo sells Corpus token items.  Duck sells Sentient token items.  One of the Entrati can sell Infested token items.    Not just boss items, but any item you do not have, and have the tokens for; it will show up in the shop.  It wont show up if you have one already and/or don't have tokens.  This helps filter it to a manageable scale.