A rework on Magnetic damage

[(NSW)Belaptir]

We know, magnetic damage is probably the worst damage type in the game (probably followed by blast right now). So what about making it a bit more powerful and less oriented to shields (that are already extremely weak)? I saw a post on Reddit talking about how certain damage types are useless after the last status update and came up with this solution for the magnetic one (which is the worst offender here and the one needing most an urgent rework).

What about making Magnetic something different: Enemy melee weapons will have a % chance of getting magnetized (the more procs, the higher the chance) rendering them unusable. The explanation is that the weapon being part or completely made of metal would stick to any metallic surface, disarming the enemy temporary.

For fire weapons, the effect would still be a disarm, but a bit more... violent: The weapon would jam because it's completely magnetized and the bullet in the chamber would not be able to escape through the pipe, making the weapon explode because of the pressure in the chamber. Damaging the enemy that fires it by an amount that depends on the level of the enemy and the weapon.

With energy based weapons, the explanation for this is that the magnetic effect would fry the circuits of the weapon causing a short-circuit and making the weapon bust.

 

As for the player, I think the effect should remain as it is, since it's already one of the most dangerous to suffer due to the energy drain and shield damage.

[DrakeWurrum]

30 minutes ago, (NSW)Belaptir said:

(probably followed by blast right now)

Blast still has its place. It's a good source of utility with the status proc, and can be used in tandem with Corrosive against enemies that are weak to both sources of damage.

Magnetic really doesn't have a place. Even the enemies that it is specifically meant to kill... are better killed by Viral instead.

Magnetic should be changed to have a unique status effect proc that can work against ALL factions, but Shields are explicitly extremely weak to Magnetic damage. Like 100% extra effective against Shields over other damage types.
If Magnetic can be universally useful, but simply RIPS through Shields with raw damage, then it will become the de facto anti-shield (possibly anti-Corpus) damage type. On any weapon - not just weapons with high status.

[(NSW)Belaptir]

3 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Blast still has its place. It's a good source of utility with the status proc, and can be used in tandem with Corrosive against enemies that are weak to both sources of damage.

Magnetic really doesn't have a place. Even the enemies that it is specifically meant to kill... are better killed by Viral instead.

 

I may have worded it wrong. I meant that the status proc caused by blast is useless (reduced accuracy? really?). However, that was not the point of this topic.

[selig_fay]

29 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Blast still has its place. It's a good source of utility with the status proc, and can be used in tandem with Corrosive against enemies that are weak to both sources of damage

First, damage has more disadvantages than advantages. Second, how useful is reducing enemy accuracy that doesn't work?

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

The right answer would be to delete Magnetic entirely.

There should only be about 5 standard damage types in this game, not like 15. With so many, they keep scraping to try to make them seem useful yet always have only about 5 that are even functional so everyone just builds for those anyway. Delete most damage types, and rework all of the remaining ones to serve a unique and distinct purpose. 

[DrakeWurrum]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

The right answer would be to delete Magnetic entirely.

There should only be about 5 standard damage types in this game, not like 15. With so many, they keep scraping to try to make them seem useful yet always have only about 5 that are even functional so everyone just builds for those anyway. Delete most damage types, and rework all of the remaining ones to serve a unique and distinct purpose. 

Fully agree. What they did with Railjack's damage system was good. I would like to see them build on that idea. The whole "combining damage types" thing has clearly flopped hard.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

1 hour ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Fully agree. What they did with Railjack's damage system was good. I would like to see them build on that idea. The whole "combining damage types" thing has clearly flopped hard.

Yeah, Railjack is a good example. They eliminated the fluff and just made the damage types work. And having so few to work with, when it was rough in the beginning, it was quick and easy for them to make tweaks to get damage types in a good place.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

I do use Magnetic in high level Index and against other high level corpus.

Blast has uses as well. 

The whole point is to adjust your status based on the faction you are fighting, which people admit they won't do for whatever reason.

If you're mainly fighting Grineer and Infested, of course Magnetic will seem useless. 

Here's the kicker you guys: you can actually spread multiple statuses throughout your loadout. That's Magnetic and toxin on one gun, viral and heat on another gun, and corrosive and heat on your melee, for example.

 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

The whole point is to adjust your status based on the faction you are fighting, which people admit they won't do for whatever reason.

It could be a matter of quality of life. We have the option to quickly change loadouts outside of the arsenal which is great for someone like me that switches between my premade loadouts almost every mission. Not long ago I requested the ability to quickly switch configurations outside of the arsenal as well which would help with faction-based configurations as well as different ability configurations (due to Helminth).

If I could easily switch between those without going into the arsenal between each mission I would gladly have my configurations set up per faction, as intended. As of right now it's just inconvenient and time consuming if you aren't a player that spends 95% of your play time as one single frame with one single primary, secondary and melee. I have a loadout for almost every frame, with various combinations of weapons (probably a dozen or more each of different primary, secondary and melee weapons I use on a daily basis).

[selig_fay]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

I do use Magnetic in high level Index and against other high level corpus.

Blast has uses as well.

The whole point is to adjust your status based on the faction you are fighting, which people admit they won't do for whatever reason.

If you're mainly fighting Grineer and Infested, of course Magnetic will seem useless.

Here's the kicker you guys: you can actually spread multiple statuses throughout your loadout. That's Magnetic and toxin on one gun, viral and heat on another gun, and corrosive and heat on your melee, for example.

 

Corrosion + fire dominates the grenner and infected. Also makes slash and virus. The toxin dominates everything that doesn't have armor but has shields. But if the target has armor, we will use virus + slash or corrosion + fire to have maximum effectiveness when the shields are destroyed, because the shields are not so difficult to destroy. Of course, there is a build of corrosion + toxin for enemy shields and armor, but it is very specific and much easier to make virus + fire + corrosion + magnet.  Well, there is a bunch of corrosion + radiation, which works by ignoring the armor a lot.

I do not know what world you live in, but I do not see that an blast would be useful, if only because fire is an infinitely scalable status. Unless it's Greneer Machinery, which we kill so often that it doesn't matter. This is the same thing about gas, which is completely useless outside of the mr4 world.

In the end, it all comes down to whether you're doing corrosion + fire or virus + slash. Everything else is special cases of utility, as ice status helps against demolists. But blast, gas, and electricity have almost no utility. Yes, you can use them, but why?

[(PSN)thegarada]

Magnetic is good against Corpus. I find cold, puncture, impact and blast to be worse. They do not do anything useful. Magnetic can remove shields very quickly.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

45 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Corrosion + fire dominates the grenner and infected. Also makes slash and virus. The toxin dominates everything that doesn't have armor but has shields. But if the target has armor, we will use virus + slash or corrosion + fire to have maximum effectiveness when the shields are destroyed, because the shields are not so difficult to destroy. Of course, there is a build of corrosion + toxin for enemy shields and armor, but it is very specific and much easier to make virus + fire + corrosion + magnet.  Well, there is a bunch of corrosion + radiation, which works by ignoring the armor a lot.

I do not know what world you live in, but I do not see that an blast would be useful, if only because fire is an infinitely scalable status. Unless it's Greneer Machinery, which we kill so often that it doesn't matter. This is the same thing about gas, which is completely useless outside of the mr4 world.

In the end, it all comes down to whether you're doing corrosion + fire or virus + slash. Everything else is special cases of utility, as ice status helps against demolists. But blast, gas, and electricity have almost no utility. Yes, you can use them, but why?

Because I'm not a one track-minded meta user. 

[selig_fay]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Because I'm not a one track-minded meta user. 

This is the same as saying that you are not using Split Chamber because you are not a meta player.

[DrakeWurrum]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

I do use Magnetic in high level Index and against other high level corpus.

1 hour ago, (PS4)thegarada said:

Magnetic is good against Corpus.

Viral is more effective against Corpus than Magnetic. And Corrosive is only just slightly worse than Magnetic against Corpus.

This is a genuine problem with the game balance.

4 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

which people admit they won't do for whatever reason.

It's not a stubborn declaration that we won't.

It's a definitive declaration that there is no actual reason to do so, because there is one status that beats all the others in all situations. Deimos is so far the ONLY place where Viral isn't the go-to damage type, and that's because they lazily and stupidly chose to make many enemies immune to Viral damage entirely (without even giving us an indication that they are).

39 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Because I'm not a one track-minded meta user. 

The "meta" exists because there are clear cases of what works and what doesn't based entirely on raw data. It has nothing to do with having an independent mind.

[Sahiratu]

I actually use magnetic on SP against corpus. Works better than most stats, at least for my staticor.

Im kinda ok with it as it is rn, but I think that any buff would be cool and this idea is really great!

[Sahiratu]

3 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Viral is more effective against Corpus than Magnetic.

My Shedu, staticor and scourge built for viral doesn't work great against SP corpus, magnetic destroy them in seconds. Didn't test much more weapons than that, as for regular content viral looks better.

My melees tho, doesn't matter which stats I use, they die pretty quickly in SP.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

37 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

This is the same as saying that you are not using Split Chamber because you are not a meta player.

It's actually not. Each faction has weaknesses. You can review these in the codex. Multishot is a separate stat not related to specific faction damage. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

13 minutes ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Viral is more effective against Corpus than Magnetic. And Corrosive is only just slightly worse than Magnetic against Corpus.

This is a genuine problem with the game balance.

It's not a stubborn declaration that we won't.

It's a definitive declaration that there is no actual reason to do so, because there is one status that beats all the others in all situations. Deimos is so far the ONLY place where Viral isn't the go-to damage type, and that's because they lazily and stupidly chose to make many enemies immune to Viral damage entirely (without even giving us an indication that they are).

The "meta" exists because there are clear cases of what works and what doesn't based entirely on raw data. It has nothing to do with having an independent mind.

Then viral needs to be looked at? Huh? 

[selig_fay]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

It's actually not. Each faction has weaknesses. You can review these in the codex. Multishot is a separate stat not related to specific faction damage.

4 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Blast has uses as well. 

Now look at the blast damage table. Then look at the fire table. Then compare the status procks. Next, add corrosion to this one, which also has its own table. And then look at the list of mobs that get reduced and increased damage from these statuses. 

I wouldn't mind if it was at least a 5 meter weapon damage that could also activate status prock. But there is simply no place in the game where reducing accuracy would play into your hands. Also, the damage bonus against ancient infected has corrosion and it is much better to provide fire to have a full bonus for all infected. About Greneer devices, It's just a joke, especially when Ferrite Armor has resistance against blast, which makes blast even worse. Well, if you take blast to Deimos, then get ready to have a lot of pain. 

It doesn't matter if it's meta or not. The problem is that even blast prock isn't fun, even though it was previously strong.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

10 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

Now look at the blast damage table. Then look at the fire table. Then compare the status procks. Next, add corrosion to this one, which also has its own table. And then look at the list of mobs that get reduced and increased damage from these statuses. 

I wouldn't mind if it was at least a 5 meter weapon damage that could also activate status prock. But there is simply no place in the game where reducing accuracy would play into your hands. Also, the damage bonus against ancient infected has corrosion and it is much better to provide fire to have a full bonus for all infected. About Greneer devices, It's just a joke, especially when Ferrite Armor has resistance against blast, which makes blast even worse. Well, if you take blast to Deimos, then get ready to have a lot of pain. 

It doesn't matter if it's meta or not. The problem is that even blast prock isn't fun, even though it was previously strong.

"even blast prock isn't fun"

You don't decide what's fun for me. I think it's great. I don't need extra damage, either, because I know how to properly utilize the tools available to me in game, and there are many. Why would I mod 2 weapons and a melee all with corrosive heat and viral? Don't you think that's a bit overkill? What if I'm stripping 100% armor with Nyx? 

If you can't find a reason to use anything other than viral heat and corrosive, then maybe ask for a blast rework? 

Me and another person told you Magnetic has uses. I use it all the time because that's what I choose to do.

[selig_fay]

9 hours ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

"even blast prock isn't fun"

You don't decide what's fun for me. I think it's great. I don't need extra damage, either, because I know how to properly utilize the tools available to me in game, and there are many. Why would I mod 2 weapons and a melee all with corrosive heat and viral? Don't you think that's a bit overkill? What if I'm stripping 100% armor with Nyx? 

If you can't find a reason to use anything other than viral heat and corrosive, then maybe ask for a blast rework? 

Me and another person told you Magnetic has uses. I use it all the time because that's what I choose to do.

No, we're talking about your opinion that blast has a use. So far your opinion is: "blast has a use because I'm a meta player."

Yes, the magnet has a use and I wrote about it above. But I also wrote that this is a niche because shields can be easily destroyed by any damage.

And about overkill, something tells me that you didn't even start steel path. I think your views will change a lot, of course, if someone does not kill everything for you.

On the other hand, I don't care about level 50 builds.

As I said earlier, the meta has nothing to do with it. This is not a warframe with unique abilities where you ignore the meta because hydroyd is so fun. Blast has nothing to be chosen.

I can say the same about gas for example. Yes, it's AoE, but no damage. Why would I use it because the infected have vulnerabilities? Well, the infected have vulnerabilities against corrosion and fire, so these statuses can't compete.

[MonsterOfMyOwn]

Magnetic is somewhat useful in steel path against armored robotic corpus for which toxin ain't good (or the treasurer)

But yes an elemental rework could make the game better.

[Tyreaus]

In principle, I don't think there's anything wrong with Magnetic being a damage booster against shields. But I do have a problem that that's it; it lacks universality. Really, Corrosive is the same way, and it gets away with it only because armour is as prevalent as it is.

So I'd rather see it kept as is, but with a little something extra to be useful across the board. Same with Corrosive. Blast, at minimum, should probably have AoE reintroduced - I would say in addition to an AoE stagger instance on proc.  It being single-target makes it fight too much with Puncture, Impact, or Heat's CC.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

21 minutes ago, selig_fay said:

No, we're talking about your opinion that blast has a use. So far your opinion is: "blast has a use because I'm a meta player."

Yes, the magnet has a use and I wrote about it above. But I also wrote that this is a niche because shields can be easily destroyed by any damage.

And about overkill, something tells me that you didn't even start steel path. I think your views will change a lot, of course, if someone does not kill everything for you.

On the other hand, I don't care about level 50 builds.

As I said earlier, the meta has nothing to do with it. This is not a warframe with unique abilities where you ignore the meta because hydroyd is so fun. Blast has nothing to be chosen.

I can say the same about gas for example. Yes, it's AoE, but no damage. Why would I use it because the infected have vulnerabilities? Well, the infected have vulnerabilities against corrosion and fire, so these statuses can't compete.

1. No one is balancing the game around steel path. That's just silly. The steel path isn't for the main audience. If anything, viral will be nerfed and then what're you gonna do without your crutch to carry you?

2. I soloed Steel Path and go up to around level 400 in the Index.

3. This post was about Magnetic. If you'd like to suggest blast and gas buffs then start your own thread.

4. Like I said, I'll play however I want and with whatever I want and you're not gonna stop me. Don't use blast if you dont want to use it.

[selig_fay]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

This post was about Magnetic. If you'd like to suggest blast and gas buffs then start your own thread.

I will repeat it again. I don't like what you said about blast. I do not need a separate thread to dispute your statement.