Decoy VS Molt

[Aldain]

2 minutes ago, ChaoticEdge said:

but really the truth they both need a rework.

Quoted for Truth.

[Berzerkules]

3 hours ago, S.Dust said:

Loki's kit is weak that's why you don't see him in spy and while he technically has the longest base duration for invis skills flat out, he's only competing with ash who has a faster cast time. Ivara has a channel and Octavia has a longer invis than loki when modded and never has to leave it since her ability is refreshable so Loki isn't even the best at being a stealth frame. As far as his disarm while it's a good enemy de buff it's not useful because it's not where the game is at, a dead enemy is better than a controlled on and if the enemies cant see you then what does it really matter if they have a gun, sure you lower your chance of taking an accidental shot but that's it. The days of the Loki master race are long one sadly. We don't even talk about his last two abilities cause they're not worth talking about. As far as having options when it comes to subsuming I would be careful the last thing I want is for DE to start thinking it's ok to give frames useless abilities because we can replace them, it shouldn't be our job to give frames completed kits.

I run a lot of endurance so what I find useful in a frames kit might not be the same as what other people are looking for. Sometimes you can't just kill everything as it spawns. It's safer to first neutralize a threat then dispatch the enemy. The greatest threat to an invis frame is their non invis squad mates. Radial disarm is good at reducing the chance of getting tagged by a stray bullet that was meant for your squad mate. 

Loki isn't the best frame, and he does not have an amazing synergistic kit, but his invis and disarm are two very useful tools for the content that I play often. I don't really enjoy cheesing with invis frames, but I can't deny the fact that Loki can excel in endurance situations with half a functioning kit. 

I agree DE shouldn't ignore frames like Loki just because he has a half functioning kit that can be "fixed" by the players with the helminth system. I just feel that his two useful abilities put him in a better place than many frames. 

 

[SneakyErvin]

I'd honestly take Molt if it were between the two. Decoy isnt even good on Loki unless you plan on doing a specific few spy vaults with him, hence why it is so easily replaced by another skill.

Helminth overall made Loki one fan-freakin-tastic frame again. With a max ranged build he is one hel of a lockdown/pile up frame.

Disarm the map (50m or so), let them come running and then just Larva them all up into a massive lump ready for blending or some mausolon cook off.

[(XBOX)TheWayOfWisdom]

26 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

 just Larva them all up into a massive lump ready for blending or some mausolon cook off.

Can we take a moment to appreciate how everyone recommends the bugged combination of Mausolon and Larva

[BahamutKaiser]

Decoy can be cast at a distance to hide it or use as a switch Beacon. 

[Nichivo]

18 hours ago, Jaysus41 said:

Remember way back when loki was almost considered overpowered?

How times change.

Na! I totally have issues remembering 1 second ago, when Loki was still the frame that can do everything in the game with relative ease(even more so with helminth access). 🤣

Yes I am biased! Because I am a Loki main since forever, and no amount of playing other frames will ever catch up to him. If you need a dependable swiss army knife that can do everything, Loki has still got you covered. Loki is a rare timeless frame, because even though times change in Warframe, Loki just keeps on trucking like it's nothing.

[ChaoticEdge]

hmmm...should there be more then 1 decoy or should the decoy act like wukong without a leash on it?   I say "If Teshin was able use a decoy specter, why not have it on loki?".  Then again, the probably I prefer able summon more then 1 decoy for max is or should be 3 and wished decoy hurt enemies more painful or mimic the weapons the players is using which we DO HAVE SPECTERS FOR A REASON.

More likely I would go for decoy specter that aggro enemies while the decoy smash and copy the owner's gun like wukong more of likely prefer copy gun stand in spot have 3 decoy = grofit.

[EmberStar]

On 2020-10-02 at 6:30 PM, Aldain said:

Ah yes. More people desperately trying to explain how Decoy, despite doing literally nothing of note in most missions is somehow a good ability and doesn't need any changes when we have the ability to shut down entire rooms with either damage or CC while decoy is dying from a stiff breeze.

Next up, Switch Teleport and the apparent value of teleporting a Heavy Gunner across the room instead of just shooting it dead.

The apparent value of teleporting it across the room and *probably putting it next to your team.*  While simultaneously putting Loki in an area surrounded by enemies alerted by the decoy and possibly already shooting at it.  (Might not matter for hitscan, could possibly matter a lot for Bombards and Napalms, or those Corpus pain grenades the ospreys spit out, or if there was a Toxic ancient puking on it.)  And yes, definitely not helped by the Decoy having barely any hitpoints and dying more or less instantly if anything *does* bother to shoot at it.  Also why (in my opinion) the Savior Decoy augment is pretty useless - the Decoy is pretty likely to die before Loki in most cases.  And the one where enemies shooting the Decoy split the damage and also kill Loki whether he's invisible or not is just... why?

[ChaoticEdge]

off the bat, we could make decoy lure enemies while decoy can be specter mode which the design of decoy was meant to harm enemies and being the thrashing beating.  Then again decoy does need improvement as well because it been outdated because newer enemies don't give a flipping bird and they just zap the whole area (Look at the sentient) pretty much no one want play loki vs the sentient due of depending which weapons and which one is going do it but in further lvl like SP for example loki doesn't do well against sentient if you don't have right weapons then sure blame the tools but also you forgot one thing loki does need a ability that filled that backbone of his as greater improvement.  There fore possible if loki could summon more then 1 decoy it would of been sent for good but due of "limits counts" of being just 1 decoy and never then more then 3 it kind of make it sort of sad a little for loki could of become all CC if he actually had 3 decoy to able use but turns out his decoy doesn't last that long and decoy isn't well rewarding.  As again I think the dev should rework to improve decoy or making even better version for it of that decoy abilities.

[(XBOX)Kuhl MC]

The only use, that I ever found for decoy, was back in the days, when I was farming focus points in infested survival missions. Put decoy in the middle of my Zenistar disc and let them come... Sweet memories... 

[Hokibukisa]

Uhhh subsume resonator it outclasses them both (if you build for sufficient range

But yes, decoy is... pretty dumb

[Cyanil]

It would be great to see a rework of his abilities to be more of a trickster. Long gone are the days where he was king of spy missions, or when irradiated disarm speed farms were a thing.