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Conclave Improvements - Movement and Ping


Teephon

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I have over 3.6k hours of Warframe play and almost 30th MR. I think I'm not the only one who remembers the conclave during periods of lack of new content. Now I go to PVE rarely and spend less time there. And the Conclave in my region is virtually dead. Starting a game session, at best, you will be thrown to a couple of friends who farm Conclave standing on each other. At its worst, it will be a game with ping spread from 30 to 400+ among players.

Ping isn’t the only problem: the topic of movement and parkour in PVP has been raised here more than once. And it's not my reaction or skills, but the fact that the parkour system turns the entire Conclave gameplay into a mess. The reason for this seems to be the need to target the opponent in a full sphere around you. Obviously the conclave needs change.

Here's what I suggest in terms of movement:

  1. Remove bullet jump from the Conclave for good (as giving too much movement speed in any direction);
  2. Increase gravity. This will reduce range and possibly jump speed; 
  3. Add a stamina parameter to limit the number of sharp maneuvers and/or melee block duration.

Anyway similar options have already been proposed earlier on the forum and discussed by the players. At the same time they can be used in various combinations and looking at the result.

The problem of latency was not completely solved by implying user hosted dedicated servers. IMHO solution could be the transfer of the Conclave to leased dedicated servers in data centers and limited testing of the changes for MR 30 players. This will provide kind of an exclusive gift for highly loyal players and at the same time limit the load on leased servers.

P.S. English isn’t my native language.

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So you wanna give the vets a free pass to stomp even harder? Do you know what bypasses shield gating? headshots do. Do you know what ratio increases drastically as you reduce the mobility? headshots do.

The mobility isn't whats keeping Conclave down. In fact the movement system is whats keeping it alive and unique... Whats holding Conclave down are 3 years without notable development/balancing and being a side gimmick in a game with toxic pve puristic community. :/

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3 hours ago, Loxyen said:

Whats holding Conclave down are 3 years without notable development/balancing and being a side gimmick in a game with toxic pve puristic community. :/

Yea idk why everyone memes so hard on Conclave. My thought is the reason they haven't touched it is because people throw a tantrun when they do. Any little addition or tweak is "forcing pve players to play pvp" somehow. I personally enjoy it from time to time.

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On 2020-10-25 at 12:44 PM, Loxyen said:

So you wanna give the vets a free pass to stomp even harder? Do you know what bypasses shield gating? headshots do. Do you know what ratio increases drastically as you reduce the mobility? headshots do.

The mobility isn't whats keeping Conclave down. In fact the movement system is whats keeping it alive and unique... Whats holding Conclave down are 3 years without notable development/balancing and being a side gimmick in a game with toxic pve puristic community. :/

Preach... I love this guy.

 

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On 2020-10-25 at 9:02 PM, Teephon said:
  1. Remove bullet jump from the Conclave for good (as giving too much movement speed in any direction);

 

Why does everyone just say remove bullet jumping...? That's the stupidest decision ever.

There is a mobility stat on Warframes in Conclave... All DE would have to do is change how this stat impacts the game, whether it be capping it at 1.0 or 0.9 if they deem it necessary. 

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On 2020-10-25 at 7:02 AM, Teephon said:

Remove bullet jump from the Conclave for good (as giving too much movement speed in any direction);

Even if reducing mobility was a good idea (which is not at all clear), this would just make everyone spam slide attacks for movement. You still wouldn't be able to hit anyone, and you would end up getting massive damage from random slide attacks all the time.

So, you would need a cooldown on slide attacks, also a cooldown on rolling, and jumping, and etc... [or just remove all those things too]

At a certain point it's not even Warframe anymore. Personally, I think the high mobility is a good thing. It's what Warframe is designed to be, and it's a big draw for much of the playerbase. Conclave's combat is very aerial and dodge heavy, which makes it more tactical and really prevents the "spray and pray" playstyle. This makes it less welcoming for new players, but that can be fixed with skill-based matchmaking. 

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  • 2 months later...
On 2020-11-04 at 6:32 PM, Rubbertubtub01 said:

 

Why does everyone just say remove bullet jumping...? That's the stupidest decision ever.

There is a mobility stat on Warframes in Conclave... All DE would have to do is change how this stat impacts the game, whether it be capping it at 1.0 or 0.9 if they deem it necessary. 

 

On 2020-11-05 at 5:16 PM, Sevek7 said:

Even if reducing mobility was a good idea (which is not at all clear), this would just make everyone spam slide attacks for movement. You still wouldn't be able to hit anyone, and you would end up getting massive damage from random slide attacks all the time.

So, you would need a cooldown on slide attacks, also a cooldown on rolling, and jumping, and etc... [or just remove all those things too]

At a certain point it's not even Warframe anymore. Personally, I think the high mobility is a good thing. It's what Warframe is designed to be, and it's a big draw for much of the playerbase. Conclave's combat is very aerial and dodge heavy, which makes it more tactical and really prevents the "spray and pray" playstyle. This makes it less welcoming for new players, but that can be fixed with skill-based matchmaking. 

First of all, buff standing winning each for kill, winning or objetive stuff

Then: If you not like the idea because warframe "have the unique style", i respect you, add or reemplace a gamemode, with OP ideas, because i totally agree with that, 

Ah about warframe, yes against very high lvl enemies you are not bullet jumping like pepega gamer, you are pretty much playing in the floor running, or rolling, this is how should be conclave in my opinion, but again add another gamemode, and you can keep playing your great gamemode with 20 players around the world, and we cantry a new gamemode.

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On 04/02/2021 at 6:09 AM, Danielw8 said:

Ah about warframe, yes against very high lvl enemies you are not bullet jumping like pepega gamer, you are pretty much playing in the floor running, or rolling, 

I DO use all the mobility tools the game provides me with, especially in more difficult content. Just because you're bad at parkour don't assume others are too. 

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1 hour ago, Tachmag said:

I DO use all the mobility tools the game provides me with, especially in more difficult content. Just because you're bad at parkour don't assume others are too. 

 im not that bad at parkour. with shield gatting meta you are pretty much doing rolling guard + lockdown + combo. You are not 24/7 jumping and moving like conclave.

Why i compare regular game with conclave, because i think conclave should be the endgame, and the endgame in warframe are lvl 9999 enemies. 

Like i said if you are actually a conclave player, and you like the actual conclave state, its really fine, you should still have the actual conclave, we are just giving ideas for a new gamemode

Im really curious now, do you have a video of you  playing against very high lvl enemies doing parkour like conclave without playing revenant or invis warframes?

Edit: watching other posts and comments an very easy solution are necramech free for all gamemode honestly, a lot of people for sure will join on those

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On 2021-02-05 at 9:58 AM, Danielw8 said:

 im not that bad at parkour. with shield gatting meta you are pretty much doing rolling guard + lockdown + combo. You are not 24/7 jumping and moving like conclave.

uh... DE even stated officially that the AI looses accuracy depending on your mobility/moves/whatever you wanna call it... And lots of ppl already went so far that it broke the engine without any i-frames being needed and for some not even being available lol

On 2021-02-05 at 9:58 AM, Danielw8 said:

Why i compare regular game with conclave, because i think conclave should be the endgame, and the endgame in warframe are lvl 9999 enemies.

Scaling dmg multipliers and so on still makes 9999lvl enemies look like a rank 1 grunt... thats not even close to be an endgame cuz there is no return in player investment... only the same rewards one gets at low tier/time/lvl/whatever missions aswell... The Dark Sector Solar Railwars were an endgame system. But instead of fixing the bugs and issues it had DE simply removed it reducing clans to bp research, trade spots only... what even are alliances for now? Don't even think about mentioning stuff as fashion, dojo minecraft or community hubs. Whats building a franchise around your creation good for when it is at the expense of its health? (not to mention the hive mind toxicity it created)

 

On 2021-02-05 at 9:58 AM, Danielw8 said:

Like i said if you are actually a conclave player, and you like the actual conclave state, its really fine, you should still have the actual conclave, we are just giving ideas for a new gamemode

The current Conclave state is the worst we ever had due to 3+ years of dev neglect. Players actually made highly valuable suggestions and the bugs and issues already got adressed multiple times. DE just keeps pretending to do anything while we sit here on a pile of shambles and broken promises. You think pve content drought is bad?

On 2021-02-05 at 9:58 AM, Danielw8 said:

Edit: watching other posts and comments an very easy solution are necramech free for all gamemode honestly, a lot of people for sure will join on those

ppl will spam nothing but the invincibility in yet another generic shooter. What makes Conclave Conclave is being the Warframe's training ground where you can go pvp and test your control about your Warframe to the fullest extend. (this includes mobility and excludes braindead ai)

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I've been playing for 2 years and MR30 with just 1 weapon missing since im waiting to hit day 700 for it. 

I have yet to play a single game of conclave since its dead. I am in now way a vet, i will most likely die first since I have no experience of PVP in warframe. 

Is this not the bigger issue here then just trying to change mobility. I thought getting more player base into the mod would be more important.  

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On 2020-10-25 at 7:02 AM, Teephon said:

IMHO solution could be the transfer of the Conclave to leased dedicated servers in data centers

Good news! On PC, we already have dedicated servers in NA, EU, and CIS regions. You'll notice them due to displaying a Message of the Day upon joining the server. There's even a leaderboard for server uptime if I remember correctly.

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13 hours ago, Loxyen said:

uh... DE even stated officially that the AI looses accuracy depending on your mobility/moves/whatever you wanna call it... And lots of ppl already went so far that it broke the engine without any i-frames being needed and for some not even being available lol

wrong

13 hours ago, Loxyen said:

Scaling dmg multipliers and so on still makes 9999lvl enemies look like a rank 1 grunt... thats not even close to be an endgame cuz there is no return in player investment... only the same rewards one gets at low tier/time/lvl/whatever missions aswell... The Dark Sector Solar Railwars were an endgame system. But instead of fixing the bugs and issues it had DE simply removed it reducing clans to bp research, trade spots only... what even are alliances for now? Don't even think about mentioning stuff as fashion, dojo minecraft or community hubs. Whats building a franchise around your creation good for when it is at the expense of its health? (not to mention the hive mind toxicity it created)

I agree but its the closest endgame we have at this moment, since like you say, and everyone say, conclave its terrible

13 hours ago, Loxyen said:

ppl will spam nothing but the invincibility in yet another generic shooter. What makes Conclave Conclave is being the Warframe's training ground where you can go pvp and test your control about your Warframe to the fullest extend. (this includes mobility and excludes braindead ai)

remember conclave have limited stuff, you are not using your necramech like normal warframe, the idea its great since its friendly with "newbies"

Pick any competitive game, any overwatch csgo dota league rainbow six call of duty all games have "cheesie" and easy way to play it. In conclave is not like that, you join and you find people with 2k hours in conclave destroying the fun for eveyone, and just in case if you pick atlas and tigris prime just to get some kills, just some, you get the toxicity in your face.

Again, necramech conclave its a great idea, limited movements, easy to aim, easy to move, easy to play. 

Sometimes i feel conclave palyers doesnt want any deep change, because conclave players have fun farming stats aganst newbies, but meanwhile those newbies are like 10 because again: the gamemode, the system and the experience in general its garbage.

Its really weird because warframe its the most casual game i ever played, but conclave players, somehow players think they have an special skill or whatever else having 10k kills in his profile, like: "im the elite get good m8" i honestly i prefer practice in csgo or overwatch, im actually playing some conclave for the syandana and skins, but very slowly, because again: ITS TERRIBLE.

 

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9 hours ago, Danielw8 said:

wrong

Quite the brainlet moment... here click this, I dare you:

 

9 hours ago, Danielw8 said:

I agree but its the closest endgame we have at this moment, since like you say, and everyone say, conclave its terrible

You get me wrong quite fast, but let me rephrase my point for you:

Conclave is great! The way DE is treating Conclave and its dedicated players for the past 3+ years is terrible.

 

9 hours ago, Danielw8 said:

remember conclave have limited stuff, you are not using your necramech like normal warframe, the idea its great since its friendly with "newbies"

wdym the skins that are meant to show your dedication towards Conclave? The handful redundant mods that aren't included to pve yet, which purpose is solely for pvp balance?

Well yea its a Necramech not a Warframe...

The idea is bad and overhyped because it dosen't matter what the newbies are starting to play, if you're not good with shooters or just used to horizontal aiming you'd get clapped in both. Also don't forget about Necramech's clunkiness and the invincibility ability smh... Dedication and the will to learn new things are what makes you improve. There are dozens of bloody Conclave newbs who got gud in a few months, some even within one...

 

9 hours ago, Danielw8 said:

Pick any competitive game, any overwatch csgo dota league rainbow six call of duty all games have "cheesie" and easy way to play it. In conclave is not like that, you join and you find people with 2k hours in conclave destroying the fun for eveyone, and just in case if you pick atlas and tigris prime just to get some kills, just some, you get the toxicity in your face.

Its not like that in Conclave? BRUH you just mentioned an unbalanced Warframe and a bugged beyond comprehension weapon. A shotgun without falloff which's damage output and pellet spread have easy one shot potential across entire maps.... If you haven't noticed yet you are the one bringing the toxicity into the match that most likely used to be quite chill before. Don't complain about getting focussed first or them disliking bug exploits in an arena pvp setting... smh

 

9 hours ago, Danielw8 said:

Again, necramech conclave its a great idea, limited movements, easy to aim, easy to move, easy to play.

Sounds hella boring ngl. The market is already saturated from generic shooters that resemble each other... Also did you forget what happened to DE's last attempt to make one of those? Does Keystone aka The Amazing Eternals ring a bell? 

Conclave with the unique movement and the weapon variety at least attracted people from other shooters and for many it even was their first pvp game at all. Well that dwindled due to DE's neglect...

 

9 hours ago, Danielw8 said:

Sometimes i feel conclave palyers doesnt want any deep change, because conclave players have fun farming stats aganst newbies, but meanwhile those newbies are like 10 because again: the gamemode, the system and the experience in general its garbage.

Conclave players want huge changes DE simply ignores them. KD never meant anything in Conclave lmao and private lobbies don't add to the stats to begin with.

Lemme rephrase that for you:

Warframe's toxic hivemind pve puristic community, the dev neglect and the match making system are garbage.

 

9 hours ago, Danielw8 said:

Its really weird because warframe its the most casual game i ever played, but conclave players, somehow players think they have an special skill or whatever else having 10k kills in his profile, like: "im the elite get good m8" i honestly i prefer practice in csgo or overwatch, im actually playing some conclave for the syandana and skins, but very slowly, because again: ITS TERRIBLE.

Warframe devolved into that kinda game while DE was focussed on rather building a franchise than keeping the game's health in check and now even you cried for endgame content...lol

Again, nobody cares about Conclave stats lmao. Just imagine people play it because its such an amazing and unique experience. If you want some casual time don't come with the exploits and maybe think about making some friends there.

Nah man... ITS GREAT! 😉

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On 2020-10-25 at 12:02 PM, Teephon said:
  1. Remove bullet jump from the Conclave for good (as giving too much movement speed in any direction);
  2. Increase gravity. This will reduce range and possibly jump speed; 
  3. Add a stamina parameter to limit the number of sharp maneuvers and/or melee block duration.

lunaro would be just a walking simulator with throwing balls and checking each other on ground, this is something that would put it back even behind things like Rocket League, which people already were kind enough to compare it to without even thinking...

You know, there is this rocket fuel in RL that lets you reach ceiling in seconds? There are also mechanics like flip reset, air dribbles, dribbles, air shots, power shots....? You know that those are REQUIRED TO EVEN PERFORM MODERATELY in that game, not stomp others, just to have ANY CHANCE of getting somewhere, there are tons of guides on that particular game and heavy pressure is put on movement, which for Lunaro you try to remove. Lunaro would have none of advanced technique requirements/possibilities after your change. Basically #(*^tty gamemode with nothing to offer. Sorry but i won't let that pass

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10 hours ago, Danielw8 said:

Its really weird because warframe its the most casual game i ever played, but conclave players, somehow players think they have an special skill or whatever else having 10k kills in his profile

my overall Kills/Deaths is 0.5 even though i have 3k kills. The only thing that it tells me is that i'm garbage LOL, not have some special skill. I rarely hear people calling themselves "skilled" and even then there are bigger fishes that eat them too so... It is like in any other game, One think of himself is skilled but in reality there are better players, And it is the same in titles you mentioned. 

It goes as far that i got called noob by people in chat just for having more loses in lunaro then wins - W/L 250/300. And i won't call myself skilled in this either, it isn't something that i can transfer to other games like, idk, Roller Champions that will soon be released in closed beta? Or this Rocket League game? It is pointless.

But ok, do you know why K/D mean sh&$@^ here? Just because of how easy to manipulate it is. One can literally farm kills on totaly fresh (to that mode) players in here, like 30/3 and the second game that any dude better than that player joins -> whoop, player gone, no consequences. No deaths are added to his account. Some people went as far that they had 15000 kills and like 2000 deaths or something in this process. And what, is he good? How can you judge it, when player flee or use some broken bugged sh@$*&^. Also now people prefer to shoot way more than deal damage with abilities. At launch people could just kill everyone with ash bladestorm through walls, or saryn ult, Now this is useless.

You also mentioned the use of atlas prime and tigris to get some kills and that it is being met with toxicity. Well, imagine that people doesn't like to die from  powercreeped things like this. i doubt you would enjoy being sniped/oneshotted by tigris prime 800 damage yourself, regardless of distance, especially where evryone has max 300 hp with some additional mods. This isn't something that is engaging and it is terrible experience for others as well.

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On 2020-10-25 at 11:02 AM, Teephon said:

Here's what I suggest in terms of movement:

  1. Remove bullet jump from the Conclave for good (as giving too much movement speed in any direction);
  2. Increase gravity. This will reduce range and possibly jump speed; 
  3. Add a stamina parameter to limit the number of sharp maneuvers and/or melee block duration.

 

Reducing a gamemode to a complete slow paced slog just because you can't aim does not fix anything. Go play literally any other pvp mode if you want that, like Fortnite or CoD.

 

12 hours ago, Danielw8 said:

 and just in case if you pick atlas and tigris prime just to get some kills, just some, you get the toxicity in your face.
 

 

Nice of you to straight up admit that you abuse exploits and bugged gear. Don't come crying when you get focused by a whole lobby if you can't play fair.

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8 hours ago, standardheadache said:

Imagine admitting to bug exploitation for personal gain (a punishable action) on a game's official forum and calling any negative response to it "toxicity".

exploit like what ?, what are you talking about tigris is exploit? atlas prime is exploit? telos boltace is exploit? its kinda funny your behavior, you want delete someone because is using x weapon, and honestly i never kill more than 10 guys in a single match, that for real its super funny

PD: I love how all conclave players jump ultra agressive, because someone touch the gamemode,  this is what im talking about and what is the conclave experience in general. I literally not understeand, i can play top 100 america dota2 ranked games, but here are more toxic, but good news, conclave community are like 50 guys nothing more, and i still playing warframe because the community its awesome. And this answers are quite funny honestly

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1 hour ago, Danielw8 said:

exploit like what ?, what are you talking about tigris is exploit? atlas prime is exploit? telos boltace is exploit?

Yes. Tigris is an exploit. The recent fall-off changes buffed it immensely in conclave. You can 1-shot somebody across the entire map using Tigris Prime. Due to a single pellet hitting a headshot. When you fire a shotgun and a single pellet is enough to 1-shot everybody, it's an exploit, and knowingly using it is abuse. Don't expect any sympathy if you choose to abuse these bugs.

Yes. Telos Boltace is an exploit. Not only does it give easy kills due to the ragdoll [which was removed by DE because it was obviously ridiculous, but accidentally re-enabled due to a PvE update], it also pushes people off the map itself forcing them into a long wait before they can respawn. Yes, technically speaking it's a good "tactic" to prevent your enemies from respawning, but seriously? It's obviously not intended, it is a bug, and using it is abuse. This is an exploit. If you use it, you deserve all the hate you receive.

Atlas Prime does not have any crazy interactions like this. It's not an exploit. You can use Atlas Prime all you want. 

1 hour ago, Danielw8 said:

PD: I love how all conclave players jump ultra agressive, because someone touch the gamemode

No. Conclave players love when people come and enjoy the game-mode. But they become aggressive when players come and exploit in the game-mode. It's cheating and should be punished like cheating in all other games. Just because DE gives you a free pass to exploit (other games will perma-ban you) does not make it right. It is wrong, and you deserve a ban even if DE won't give you one.

1 hour ago, Danielw8 said:

And this answers are quite funny honestly

Sad that you find it funny. All popular PvE games ban Exploiters. Conclave has a small playerbase, as you correctly pointed out:

1 hour ago, Danielw8 said:

conclave community are like 50 guys nothing more

Yes it's small. It's small because there are many exploiters in every match. If DE would ban exploiters, it would be more popular. 

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