Serafim_94 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 The third phase is also absolutley fantastic, as most of arena is destoyed by now, and Nihil starts spawning literally on the other side of the map from you. If you try to throw glass at him, he'll disappear before the shard finishes its flight. And you can't chase him, as arena is destroyed, and #*!%ing glass explodes in your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebrisFlow Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 14 hours ago, GrazeZeroLow said: 1. Every attack turns you into glass, which acts similar to the cold status. He'll always glass you before swinging his sword, which is a one-shot kill. So, maybe, jump to avoid those glassing attacks? Learn to understand when he's about to cast and stay ready? A vertical double jump is sufficient to avoid the glassing shard he's throwing at you. 14 hours ago, GrazeZeroLow said: 2. Nihil is able to destroy the crystals, that you're supposed to destroy, to make him vulnerable to attack. Didn't notice this, but...destorying the crystals makes him vulnerable, so he's apparently easening the job for you... What's the problem here? 14 hours ago, GrazeZeroLow said: 3. After what feels like a millennia, the throwable crystals will spawn - and Nihil can shoot them out of your hand! If you tried to avoid the shards that he throws at you, mentioned at point 1, you would have noticed that those are the same shards that you are supposed to pick up and lauch back at crystals/him. You avoid being slowed down and you have a projectile to launch: win win. 14 hours ago, GrazeZeroLow said: 4. These throwable crystals won't last long, and will glass you when they explode. So, maybe, act quicly? Are we complaining that a boss fight is giving you a little bit of pressure? 14 hours ago, GrazeZeroLow said: 5. There are no hit boxes. You'll need to be dead on. Though, 99.99% of the time the crystal goes right through your target anyway. There are. The projectiles shards that you launch are just slow and with a strong descending arc. Practice and you'll learn how to throw them efficiently. If they are descending too fast, aim higher, that's simple ballistic. 14 hours ago, GrazeZeroLow said: 6. If Nihil destroys all the larger crystal, your stuck in limbo until you use up all of your lives. Never arrived to that point, can you define better what's this limbo is? He's not trying to launch shards anymore? No way to fight back? without shards? It is related to point 2? If so, why continue describing the problem at point 6? From what you wrote it seems that you tried the fight just once, not paying attention (expecting a fight like The Sergeant?) and not trying to understand the mechanics. So you quit and went directly to rant on the forums. The fight is not difficult at all if you enter with the mentality that it is a boss fight and that you have to learn its unknown mechanics first. Warframe never explained the mechanics of its fights, it's either a matter of trial/error or of consulting the wiki (and by accessing the fight on release day you choose to limit your options to the first). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)GearsMatrix301 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Does the boss fight kinda suck? Yes. Are the rewards for beating him worth it? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deothor Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Yesterday when I read this thread I was like "naa, it can't be THAT bad". Today when i finally decided to do 5th chapter I have to agree. This boss is garbage. No clues what are we supposed to do. After losing 2'ish platforms while tossing glass poo at everything without ANYTHING happening I just quit. DE, how about you hire actual folks that know how to make boss fights? Cause so far you have ungodly long streak of total xxxxxxxxx garbage trash bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledkit Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 I hate this battle because it's too arcady. I'm not good with timing, I don't play souls-like religiously. But Warframe was never making me do that. Until now. And the glass pieces I'm throwing are going in any direction but now where I'm aiming. So yes, I hate it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electropuncher Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 This fight was terrible. It was just too slow and RNG dependent. Wasn't really a test of skill as much as it was a test of patience. Is it Warframe's worst fight yet? No. That "honor" goes to Jordas Golem. Does it reinforce the idea that DE can't design bosses without basically making you play a different game? Yes. This was not a Warframe fight. This was a Mario boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebrisFlow Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, (NSW)Electropuncher said: This fight was terrible. It was just too slow and RNG dependent. Where and what was the RNG in the fight?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TehChubbyDugan Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 8 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said: I have come to the conclusion that you don't know how to have fun. I found this fight to be an enjoyable challenge. It took me one fail to figure the fight out, and after that it was faceroll easy. I'm starting to understand, though, why back in my raiding days there were so many people who simply could not learn how to not die. Be condescending all you want, just because you think something is fun doesn't mean it is objectively fun for everyone. I have plenty of fun when I'm not being shoehorned into a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with why I'm playing the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electropuncher Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 4 hours ago, DebrisFlow said: Where and what was the RNG in the fight?!? Nihil might throw a crystal at you. He might teleport to a new platform and blow it up. It's probably easily mitigated if you had a reason to practice the fight, but you're kinda just thrust into it, and there aren't rewards for repeating it, so... no real reason to do it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethTheBean Posted October 29, 2020 Author Share Posted October 29, 2020 Just checking on the insults .... Yep, there's a few. *leaves* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobie-wan Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 14 hours ago, deothor said: No clues what are we supposed to do. There was a big bad, some big floating crystals, and some projectiles that would stick to the ground for a little bit. All else was ground, a bottomless pit, and you didn't have your weapons and abilities. Since you can't reach the big bad, that leaves checking out the crystals on the ground and the big crystals. You find that you can pick up the ones on the ground if you reach them fast enough. Now you have 2 things you might throw them at. Even if you don't notice the invincible markers on Nihil's health bar, that's only 2 things to try throwing the small crystals at. Then his health bar turns bright red after hitting a big crystal. Keeping moving to avoid being hit is a given. I mean come on, that's not much to work that out. 14 hours ago, ledkit said: I'm not good with timing, I don't play souls-like religiously. I tried the first Dark Souls for maybe 5 or 10 minutes back in the day and hated it. Mostly because of the control scheme, but even the first mook turned me off the game. The bar for this fight is far below that. Moving to the side when crystals are thrown and jumping when the sword is swung is enough to avoid being hit. Stay off smaller pieces of ground if you have some trouble with minding that as well and you should be able to get through it with some practice if it doesn't just come to you. 5 hours ago, GrazeZeroLow said: Just checking on the insults .... Yep, there's a few. *leaves* You set the tone of the thread with your first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebrisFlow Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 10 hours ago, (NSW)Electropuncher said: Nihil might throw a crystal at you. He might teleport to a new platform and blow it up. It's probably easily mitigated if you had a reason to practice the fight, but you're kinda just thrust into it, and there aren't rewards for repeating it, so... no real reason to do it again. Nothing RNG in Nihil actions, everything is deterministic and depends from the distance you put with him: close distance) he uses sword attack; middle distance) throws crystal; long distance) he teleports to close range. Up to you to practice and understand which are the ranges in an empirical way. I had time to practice and understand during my first and only fight, so nothing impossible, you just need to change your attitude toward curiosity instead of defeatism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kya_Purrcy Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 I'm having about as much fun with this as I did with the Protea end fight. I don't care for it and I am deliberately dragging solo missions out to force glass spawns. I'll hopefully eventually get it done like Protea, but I'm not enjoying myself in the attempts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teridax68 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 From the OP's account I think there is a slight learning issue at hand, as Nihil's glass can be dodged and then picked up simply by jumping as his head glows, but beyond that I didn't entirely like the fight for a few reasons: As seems to be par for the course in this Nightwave season, and the whole of Warframe, absolutely nothing in this fight is explained to the player, so we're left to flounder around and figure out with no clear indication that we're meant to throw bits of glass at other bits of glass (and only the right bits of glass, too). The fight expects us to have retained minor pieces of information drip-fed to us over the course of literal months. For whichever reason, our throwing arm seems to have worsened significantly compared to the Exploiter Orb fight, with our throws having significantly worse accuracy and landing far shorter, which is all the more annoying when... Nihil ends up teleporting pretty much the moment the player moves to take a shot at him during the third phase, which can make him impossible to hit if there are too few platforms left, as he'll usually be too far away. This effectively means the player is left in a frustrating no-win scenario if too many platforms fall. In the end, the fight can be won much more easily once there's a clear awareness of how everything works, and the player operates quickly enough (that, and memorizes the order of the characters to aim for), but the first try is likely going to feel awful. Really, I think the fight could be made a lot more pleasant with the following adjustments: Have Nora give the player hints as to what to do, i.e. dodge the glass, throw it at the right clue, then throw it at Nihil. Make the glass projectile faster and more accurate, with enough overall range to be able to hit across the arena. Tone down Nihil's teleportation during his third phase so that he doesn't immediately teleport to a new place when the player tries to approach him, but only a few seconds later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobie-wan Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Kya_Purrcy said: I am deliberately dragging solo missions out to force glass spawns. If you have some stuff to do in open areas, you can do that so you can just fish, mine, or whatnot until they show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel_Rook Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 On 2020-10-28 at 6:15 AM, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said: Like everything else in the game, absolutely nothing is explained. That's always been Warframe's core problem. Even when DE have good ideas, their utter aversion for communicating ANY part of their design with the players makes everything appear more complicated and unfair than it is. Anyone remember Scarlet Spear and all the rage from people who misunderstood how it worked and thought they were losing progress... Because the UI wasn't working correctly? Yeah, this keeps happening, and I don't know why. It's why I don't bother with new encounters on Day 1, before the Wiki can be updated with an explanation of the actual mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying_Scorpion Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Thank you for confirming what I had expected from the Warframe community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electropuncher Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 10 hours ago, DebrisFlow said: Nothing RNG in Nihil actions, everything is deterministic and depends from the distance you put with him: close distance) he uses sword attack; middle distance) throws crystal; long distance) he teleports to close range. Up to you to practice and understand which are the ranges in an empirical way. I had time to practice and understand during my first and only fight, so nothing impossible, you just need to change your attitude toward curiosity instead of defeatism. ...Defeatism? What? I did the fight on my first try. No offense, mate, but you're being pretty defensive about a boss fight that I've gone on record (probably in other topics, there are like 20 of these things because we're so content starved that this is about as good as it gets right now) to say isn't really that terrible. In regards to it NOT being RNG, it is. There's a set of actions that Nihil might do, but your range does influence it. And as for practice, why bother? It's a one-off fight that doesn't really have a reason to ever do it again. At its worst, I can see a player saying it was glitchy (I have said that) and really slow-paced. At best, it's one of the only fights an MR 0 could do and have a special blueprint waiting for them, encouraging them to level up. But wow, do you come off as a jerk in that post, putting words in my mouth. Maybe take a step back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebrisFlow Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 22 hours ago, (NSW)Electropuncher said: ...Defeatism? What? I did the fight on my first try. No offense, mate, but you're being pretty defensive about a boss fight that I've gone on record (probably in other topics, there are like 20 of these things because we're so content starved that this is about as good as it gets right now) to say isn't really that terrible. In regards to it NOT being RNG, it is. There's a set of actions that Nihil might do, but your range does influence it. And as for practice, why bother? It's a one-off fight that doesn't really have a reason to ever do it again. At its worst, I can see a player saying it was glitchy (I have said that) and really slow-paced. At best, it's one of the only fights an MR 0 could do and have a special blueprint waiting for them, encouraging them to level up. But wow, do you come off as a jerk in that post, putting words in my mouth. Maybe take a step back. Defeatism is the pessimistic attitude of accepting defeat/submission without struggling. You said that the fight was too RNG dependent. Blaming RNG for loosing control of the outcome of our actions, without properly assessing if the fight is really working that way, is defeatism. I then explained my experience in the Nihil fight where, instead of accepting that it was controlled by RNG i decided to undestand its determinism, and i succeded. So i suggested a change of attitude toward curiosity. Sorry if it sounded directed at you specifically, it was aimed at a broader group of commenters (you are part of) in this thread. You just happened to burst a hot topic by blaming RNG, which had to be addressed with factual evidence. And sorry, but claiming that your attitude was different in other threads on the topic is not useful, it's not feasible to search and read a player's literature on the forum just to reply to a post. What did you understand from my whole comment? 22 hours ago, (NSW)Electropuncher said: ...Defeatism? What? I did the fight on my first try. Apparently that Defeatism = Defeat? That i somehow mocked you for being defeated? It seems that you turned what was a perfectly reasonable and non offensive suggestion into a personal attack, based on a semantic misinterpretation. But the funny part is that then you accused me of overreacting...by throwing a tantrum where you give me the "jerk", and feeling necessary to invoke a "calm down" youtube video. This is pathetically hypocritical and results in an overall ridiculously comical effect (<- FYI, this last comment of mine is "coming off as a jerk") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xylena_Lazarow Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 On 2020-10-27 at 11:15 PM, (XB1)TehChubbyDugan said: And of course all of your weapons, abilities and everything that make the game fun and the whole reason most of us are here are completely removed for the whole fight. This. I don't care if it's the last weapon I need for MR30, I haven't done a single glassmaker quest and never will. DE needs to stop with the gimmicks and go back to us simply hitting things until they're dead. With all the cool gear we put so much time and effort into. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pan.ini Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 This fight is the epitome of bad game design. A catastrophic failure (Intel(r)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neekk0 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I have only played up to Alad V in Jupiter, but honestly this was the best boss fight in warframe so far... like wow i have to actually observe the boss and react to it instead of oneshotting him or spamming melee in his face? More of this please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BethTheBean Posted October 31, 2020 Author Share Posted October 31, 2020 I'm going to contact a mod to close my post. It's turned into another "flame war", just as every other post against the design of the Nihil fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grave.Knight Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 I get hit with the crystal and still managed to dodge the sword, just double jump at an angle and he can't hit you. The throwable crystals don't spawn, you have to get him to hit the ground. If you double jump after he shoots the crystal it should spawn right under you. As soon as you pick it up bullet jump off the platform and aim glide at the crystals. I've only seen him take out one crystal and as far as I can tell they do eventually come back. The fight isn't really that bad, they just don't do much to explain what you're suppose to do (which pretty much sums up Glassmaker in general). On 2020-10-29 at 4:04 AM, Kya_Purrcy said: I'm having about as much fun with this as I did with the Protea end fight. I don't care for it and I am deliberately dragging solo missions out to force glass spawns. I'll hopefully eventually get it done like Protea, but I'm not enjoying myself in the attempts. At least they explain what you need to do with Protea...over and over and over and over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodi1600 Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 lol was an easy figth for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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