Frost isn't cool enough. Let's fix that.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

When you look at Frost's kit, you can see that it is focused on two things:

• Crowd Control though slows and freezes.
• Protecting allies and objectives from damage.

(He also has armor reduction via his 4, as well as some Area of Effect damage.)

However, he has a number of shortcomings, especially compared to what other frames can accomplish. While his Snow Globe and Avalanche are mostly fine, Freeze, Ice Wave, and his passive all leave much to be desired. This half-rework, half-tweak proposal aims to fix the following issues and shortcomings:

• His low energy despite being an active caster.
• Many of his abilities having little to no scaling with certain ability stats, sometimes for seemingly no reason.
• His ally protection being limited to the smallest barrier ability in a high mobility game.
• His passive being too "low chance, high impact".
• Freeze's lackluster CC and AoE.
• Ice Wave's low AoE and impact. (Not the damage type Impact.)
• Globe's low health per cast compared to abilities with similar formulas, reducing the benefit of being able to have up to 4 Globes.
• Avalanche's low duration, range, and armor reduction compared to similar abilities.

Tweaks and Reworks
The proposals here will be presented in the order they relate to one another.

Stats
Increase his base energy by 50-100%.

Passive
Enemies within 4m of Frost are slowed by 25%. (Stacks multiplicatively with other slows. 50% slow in combination with this one does not result in a 75% slow.)

With Frost's kit being so much about slowing and stopping enemies, one hitting him in melee is not a common occurrence. Even then, his passive only works 1/10th of the time. It's also the longest lasting freeze in his kit while below 133% ability duration. I suggest a reversal of this chance/reward scenario, giving him a passive that is more often active but for a lesser benefit.

Avalanche
Radius increased to 20m. The Cold status effect and the armor reduction last for 8s after the freeze ends. The armor reduction is increased to 50-60%. The shatter damage also deals damage equal to a percentage of the shattered enemy's max health.

The radius increase makes it comparable to other AoE CC abilities like Rhino's Stomp and Nezha's Divine Spears. Letting the Cold slow linger increases its effective duration to be more comparable to Divine Spears, while the increased amount and duration of the armor reduction keeps it a bit more in line with permanent and/or stackable armor reductions, given that it lacks either. The shattering buff allows it to scale its AoE portion better.

Globe
Absorbed damage is multiplied by Strength. Hold the ability button to collapse the Globe you're currently within, granting all allies inside a protective coat of ice based on the Globe's health, divided by the number of affected squad mates. The ice thaws away at a rate of 5% of its max health per second, giving it a 20 second duration if no damage is taken.

The health of Nezha's Warding Halo multiplies the absorbed damage with his Strength, while Rhino's Iron Skin and Frost's Globe both multiply their armor with Strength instead. Unlike Rhino, Frost has no augment (or ability) to temporarily increase his armor, making its scaling on higher levels be primarily based on damage absorption. Since the absorption is not multiplied, that gives Globe an effective, unmoddable duration of 8s of enemy fire per cast, given an equal amount of firepower during and after the absorption period. Having this absorption be modified by Strength would help Frost keep multiple Globes alive.

The ability to shatter Globe for a protective coat is largely inspired by the Augment for his 4, which can then either be kept or reworked. This change would help Frost protect his team as they move from one location to the next. One idea for a 4 Augment replacement is making enemies who come in contact with enemies frozen through Avalanche suffer a normal Freeze, effectively changing it from an on-cast CC to a lasting field similar to Nyx's Chaos Sphere augment.

Freeze
Freeze's impact radius now scales with ability Range, and freezes all enemies within its radius. The unfreeze Health threshold is decreased to 25%.

This makes Freeze's CC more comparable to Equinox's Rest, trading decreased range for decreased "wake-up" threshold.

Ice Wave
Base angle is increased to 90^o and the angle cap is removed. Some offensive synergy with frozen enemies is added, such as increasing its damage per frozen enemy hit, increasing their damage vulnerability while frozen, giving them an instant kill threshold of 25% while frozen, or similar.

With the recent Vauban rework as precedent, having too many CC abilities results in some of them seeing little to no usage. Just like Vauban got Photon Strike, this changes Ice Wave to fill a more offensive role.

As closing words I just want to add one thing, as I image it will come up during discussions:
Just because a frame can do one or two things, be it passably well or spectacularly good, doesn't mean that there aren't parts of their kit that need some love. Arguing that a frame doesn't need any changes because they can do X well means that no frame in the game would be in need of a rework/buff/tweak by the same token, and I kinda doubt anyone thinks that.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

1 hour ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Passive
Enemies within 4m of Frost are slowed by 25%.

This would make me permanently bench Frost completely and never play him again. He already slows the pace at which missions can be completed by too much.

The proposed ability changes are fine, but I don't think they would still compete with the one hit true damage snow globe builds out there. Building him for avalanche armor strip would be more viable due to he higher base values, but the CC buffs are made kinda redundant by the fact that snow globe's true damage can be combined with viral to just instakill most enemies.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

3 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

This would make me permanently bench Frost completely and never play him again. He already slows the pace at which missions can be completed by too much.

Do you at least agree that his current passive is pretty useless, and if so, what would you suggest as a replacement?

(And yeah. the kill globe is definitely a nifty trick of his that I didn't want to touch.)

[BiancaRoughfin]

35 minutes ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

This would make me permanently bench Frost completely and never play him again.

Its got 4 meters range, how is this going to slow the pace mission are completed? It will make enemies within Melee range of you slow down and give you more time to react. Its an upgraded version of Sentinel`s Coolant Leak mod (3 meters 10% slow).

32 minutes ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Do you at least agree that his current passive is pretty useless, and if so, what would you suggest as a replacement?

If i was to suggest a replacement for Frost`s Passive, i would have all his abilities give him the same Absorption armor that his Avalanche Augment gives and change the augment so it still applied the absorption to allies and increased the overall percentage that avalanche gave to Frost him self.

[Zhoyzu]

My very first experience in this game was being downed on my first mission when the squad didnt hold the elevator for me. And this Frost came back for me and used avalanche to wipe the floor then rez me. It was a pretty substantial and magical moment that influenced almost every habit i have in the game now.

And for this reason i get REALLY bitter and upset when Frost reworks are mentioned and talked about as the frame shaped so much of my gaming experiences on warframe i don't want to lose or let those go. 

For whatever reason i can get behind your reworks as they all feel very non invasive and work to maintain the frames current state and roles while effectively only adding utility and flavor for which i thank you. (talking about my other main Banshee)

 

Now i will agree that Frost needs a larger energy pool. 425 with maxed primed flow is a joke, considering the same mod pushes almost every other frame through the 600 mark.

The collapsible globe is actually extremely appealing for mobile objective maps (IE mobile defence) as you could just collapse it before moving on. Which significantly outweighs the current 'just leave it behind'. Already just that change would make his lower energy pool tolerable as you would get more out of the energy you spent.

From my perspective the only reason his first skill is still around is to shatter globes that might become problematic if left behind as you cant shoot into/through them. A collapsible globe opens up new avenues for either a different ability or completely changing what freeze does.
What could exist in its place is a Totem of Ice which is the opposite of Globe and is just a pillar that slows enemies within a radius of X. And that perhaps nodding back to your flavor of globe, could detonate the pillars causing cold procs and some damage (and for more flavor) based on how slowed the enemies are.

 

I disagree with increasing the range of abilities like avalanche. It just reminds me of the old days with Banshees just sound quaking and you never even once saw an enemy and could only hope you were within affinity range. It wasnt fun or entertaining. Im also running a new account to see what the new player experience is like and im compiling information but excessive range is one of the issues new players have to experience, when a day form equinox is wiping the map before the new player can locate an enemy. IMO AoE buff skills can have all the range they want but once you start turning to damage i think those need limitations for the enjoyment of others.

Some of the new maps and defences are quite large and open so i can see, and understand the argument for more range. But changing positioning would get you similar results for non static defence type missions.

 

And for Ice wave, im actually quite happy with where its at (i never go anywhere without ice wave impedance). Sure it could use a larger cone perhaps but ive never really found myself needing a greater than 90° cone. Despite that i primarily use it for slowing enemies. I get a lot of "but a freeze from avalanche is a 100% slow" kind of arguments but as its been pointed out Frost's limited energy pool make spamming avalanche for a slow less effective then a few ice waves. SO it does all boil back down to an energy problem. With more energy i could cover a larger area with multiple ice waves or i could use avalanche more reliably without eating 300 energy pads a mission.

 

Pretty much gonna wrap this up now. But on a final note, i dont particularly care about passives as they just about all seem useless or too weak/unimpactful to matter.

I HATE sevagoth's and Inaros' Passives in particular. While its a nice flavor, they just arent effective enough to do as designed and could ruin a mission if you cant respawn fast enough.

 

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

3 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

For whatever reason i can get behind your reworks as they all feel very non invasive and work to maintain the frames current state and roles while effectively only adding utility and flavor for which i thank you. (talking about my other main Banshee)

This is a huge compliment - thank you!

8 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

From my perspective the only reason his first skill is still around is to shatter globes that might become problematic if left behind as you cant shoot into/through them. A collapsible globe opens up new avenues for either a different ability or completely changing what freeze does.
What could exist in its place is a Totem of Ice which is the opposite of Globe and is just a pillar that slows enemies within a radius of X. And that perhaps nodding back to your flavor of globe, could detonate the pillars causing cold procs and some damage (and for more flavor) based on how slowed the enemies are.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot to many any mentions of that! I wanted to do something with that interaction but couldn't figure out what, so it eventually just slipped out of my mind. At the very least and simplest, it should get a damage buff, seeing as it's basically the same interaction as Gara's wall + 1. I don't think that would fit Frost though, as it would probably just encourage a rather non-Frost-y playstyle. I gotta say I like your idea - it would combo quite well with Globe to CC enemies inside to an even higher degree. (Or lower degree - temperature pun.)

11 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

I disagree with increasing the range of abilities like avalanche. It just reminds me of the old days with Banshees just sound quaking and you never even once saw an enemy and could only hope you were within affinity range. It wasnt fun or entertaining. Im also running a new account to see what the new player experience is like and im compiling information but excessive range is one of the issues new players have to experience, when a day form equinox is wiping the map before the new player can locate an enemy. IMO AoE buff skills can have all the range they want but once you start turning to damage i think those need limitations for the enjoyment of others.

Some of the new maps and defences are quite large and open so i can see, and understand the argument for more range. But changing positioning would get you similar results for non static defence type missions.

Hmm, point taken. My motivation for the change was to ensure it affected everyone within a relevant distance, but with a sightly improved Globe as well as its protective shatter, chances are that it would, with what you've laid out, do more harm than good.

21 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

And for Ice wave, im actually quite happy with where its at (i never go anywhere without ice wave impedance). Sure it could use a larger cone perhaps but ive never really found myself needing a greater than 90° cone. Despite that i primarily use it for slowing enemies.

For me, it's one of those abilities I just want more out of, particularly considering how easy it is to stack status effects on multiple enemies nowadays. One alternative would be to have the augment be baseline but yeah, as you said, it all boils down to the energy problem. If he had more energy to work with, the way he uses his abilities would likely change, giving more of them opportunity to shine.

All in all, thank you for some really good feedback!

[TheLexiConArtist]

I'm one of those "Frost isn't useless" respondents. He's old but still capable of holding his own way more than people usually credit. Having said that, let's get cracking:

17 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Stats
Increase his base energy by 50-100%.

I'm already in the "sustain over capacity" camp, but I think this isn't likely to be as necessary after kit buffs surrounding it make cast frequency less demanding.

17 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Passive
Enemies within 4m of Frost are slowed by 25%. (Stacks multiplicatively with other slows. 50% slow in combination with this one does not result in a 75% slow.)

No problem with this. Alternatively (or concurrently) I'd take immunity to cold procs, unless DE reverts their duration/effect on players to what they were before the status redo caused us to suffer more as well.

17 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Avalanche
Radius increased to 20m. The Cold status effect and the armor reduction last for 8s after the freeze ends. The armor reduction is increased to 50-60%. The shatter damage also deals damage equal to a percentage of the shattered enemy's max health.

'All of the above' is probably too much buffing to ask. I'd say picking any two between Range, armour strip Strength and armour strip Duration.

Percentile shatter damage can stay in all cases.

A big candidate for energy economy improvement mentioned previously, in having either more chill duration or a better range so you aren't bouncing between as many points-of-cast each time. Both (in lieu of not being able to 100% strip with most builds) would cut it immensely.

 

Proposed buffing to Globe may make the range increase less necessary (Globe protects from enemies beyond Avalanche range, then those enemies close in to suffer Avalanche lockdown.)

17 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Globe
Absorbed damage is multiplied by Strength. Hold the ability button to collapse the Globe you're currently within, granting all allies inside a protective coat of ice based on the Globe's health, divided by the number of affected squad mates. The ice thaws away at a rate of 5% of its max health per second, giving it a 20 second duration if no damage is taken.

 

Better access to reactive Globe health: yes, the other major contender to reduce energy demands of frequent re-casting (or stacking of base hp).

Not sure I like the freezy skin collapse since we do already have the Avalanche augment for that purpose (and 2 augment for on-the-move control, if augment is retained with usability improvements to the base ability).
Popping the globe - which we do with Freeze casts already - could maybe just have its current local effect made a bit more potent to give allies a bit of breathing room as they get a move on; if you really want skin protecc, slot the Avalanche aug.

Side-notes:

• Health of currently occupied globe dynamically shown when? Could even be put in the usual 'extra UI element' spot to make it more prominently visible.
• Please let Chilling Globe augment scale to full reliability. It already compares poorly to Repelling Bastille.
• No ally bullet block please and thank you, or add it fully to every comparable walling ability. It's outdated on Frost alone.

17 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Freeze
Freeze's impact radius now scales with ability Range, and freezes all enemies within its radius. The unfreeze Health threshold is decreased to 25%.

This makes Freeze's CC more comparable to Equinox's Rest, trading decreased range for decreased "wake-up" threshold.

Lotus knows the aiming on the thing decides when it feels like snapping to a target, so having the 'miss' not be as useless is an easy win for the kit.

Raises questions of not wanting to hit an enemy if you get the full freeze in an AOE for hitting geometry, though. Would either need the AOE freeze to be lesser-effective, or to have it explode the same AOE when hitting a unit. I lean to the latter (and removing the auto-target so it doesn't sometimes work when you don't want it to, i.e. when trying to pop globe)

17 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Ice Wave
Base angle is increased to 90^o and the angle cap is removed. Some offensive synergy with frozen enemies is added, such as increasing its damage per frozen enemy hit, increasing their damage vulnerability while frozen, giving them an instant kill threshold of 25% while frozen, or similar.

Having the Oberon's Magic Carpet treatment with angle of effect is something for which I've definitely asked before, at least. The ability is overall the one most replaceable, but that would be a start.

Augment does still almost hold its ground as a persisting control effect, albeit a soft control. If ability isn't changed outright, wouldn't suggest changing it to also contribute to Wave becoming a more offensive ability (although Avalanche buffs may also fulfil that need somewhat?) 

Don't have any total-mechanical-rework suggestions, but I see Lavos's Vial Rush subbed into that ability slot as almost a wholesale improvement currently. Some mobility, persistency without the slot burned on augment.

[selig_fay]

Let's give frost a more worthwhile passive one. When blocking stance, a storm is created within a radius of 10 meters, which slightly slows down enemies and increases incoming critical damage for 5 seconds after impact. This mechanic exists in another game, so I know it works well.

I do not know if such videos violate the rules, I just show the mechanics.

 

[(NSW)H2amster]

idk how every ppl who wants a frost rework always wants an energy pool buff while ignoring his sprint speed. i have frost with 20% as my top usage with at least 2k hours, i never faced an energy issue. while i always struggle to keep up with my friends when running thru anything. 

nice frost changes suggestions but i never feel the need to change any of his kit except maybe ice wave. he needs more buffs than a rework. and i just wanted dat sprint speed buff since forever u.u

[Famecans]

I like the description of the Ice Avalanche augment but it doesn't work it just doesn't work because the math isn't polished to work with other armor mods and adaptation; in a way this is fair as this unique mod can Broke the game progression.

I played Frost yesterday with Khora and Volt in the team, i was doing well to protect kill and survive but after lvl120 frozen enemies seemed to delay the match, so frost could only kill after being corrupted by void traces.

I don't know, I think enemy mechanics should make enemies resistant to skill spam, this way all frames will be able to play together without dispute, all weapons will be useful and necessary and no action will look wrong.

the current mod system is functional to increase any weaponry but the simple acquisition of these mods makes the game progression boil down to endo and arcane; looking in the other direction, the enemy's resistance comes down to armor and health...

in this way we can say that the competition between frames will never end as enemies are fragile against the most comfortable mechanics (aoe); the simple solution to this would be groups of enemies adapted against the spam player, so any frame can be increased without competing against other skills/frames.

thanks for reading.👍

 

 

[Famecans]

5 hours ago, (NSW)H2amster said:

idk how every ppl who wants a frost rework always wants an energy pool buff while ignoring his sprint speed. i have frost with 20% as my top usage with at least 2k hours, i never faced an energy issue. while i always struggle to keep up with my friends when running thru anything. 

nice frost changes suggestions but i never feel the need to change any of his kit except maybe ice wave. he needs more buffs than a rework. and i just wanted dat sprint speed buff since forever u.u

I put Gara's mirrors on Frost to make a lot of energy but I realized it's not necessary as Frost can't kill and doesn't need energy. I am now looking at Grendel's skill as it looks amazing.

About skill 4 sugestion: Any reduction in energy consumption of Ice Avalanche will save one or two mod slots for removing armor and that looks good.

[TheLexiConArtist]

20 hours ago, (NSW)H2amster said:

idk how every ppl who wants a frost rework always wants an energy pool buff while ignoring his sprint speed. i have frost with 20% as my top usage with at least 2k hours, i never faced an energy issue. while i always struggle to keep up with my friends when running thru anything. 

What is this 'sprinting' you speak of? No wonder you can't keep up if all you're doing is trudging along on foot. :v

I don't think I've sprinted outside of kiddo-mode in years.

[Lutesque]

On 2021-06-10 at 5:51 PM, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

His ally protection being limited to the smallest barrier ability in a high mobility game.

To be fair....

We rarely simulatenously move while Baby Sitting Something.... It's only Sortie/Arbitration Defense Operatives and Hijack Missions where this is actually Necessary.... All other Baby Sitting Objectives are Stationery..... Except Bounty Drone Escort.....

On 2021-06-10 at 5:51 PM, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

• Freeze's lackluster CC and AoE.
• Ice Wave's low AoE and impact. (Not the damage type Impact.)

These Two Abilities are basically the Same are they not ? 🤔.

The only difference is the Delivery...

On 2021-06-10 at 5:51 PM, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Globe's low health per cast compared to abilities with similar formulas, reducing the benefit of being able to have up to 4 Globes.

I can't think of a situation where I would need 4 Globes 😱 !!! One is usually enough....

On 2021-06-10 at 5:51 PM, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Passive
Enemies within 4m of Frost are slowed by 25%. (Stacks multiplicatively with other slows. 50% slow in combination with this one does not result in a 75% slow.)

50 + 25 = 75 is an Addative Effect is it not ?

If it was Multiplicative then it would be 50 + 25 = 62.5% right ?

On 2021-06-10 at 7:36 PM, Wyrmius_Prime said:

This would make me permanently bench Frost completely and never play him again. He already slows the pace at which missions can be completed by too much.

Good Point 🤔....

I often forget that In a Grinding Game.... We want things to go Faster not slower.

 

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

35 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

On 2021-06-10 at 5:51 PM, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

His ally protection being limited to the smallest barrier ability in a high mobility game.

To be fair....

We rarely simulatenously move while Baby Sitting Something.... It's only Sortie/Arbitration Defense Operatives and Hijack Missions where this is actually Necessary.... All other Baby Sitting Objectives are Stationery..... Except Bounty Drone Escort.....

I'm mainly referring to supporting squad mates here, like between terminals on Mobile Defense.

36 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

On 2021-06-10 at 5:51 PM, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

• Freeze's lackluster CC and AoE.
• Ice Wave's low AoE and impact. (Not the damage type Impact.)

These Two Abilities are basically the Same are they not ? 🤔.

The only difference is the Delivery...

Which is another reason to differentiate them.

36 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

I can't think of a situation where I would need 4 Globes 😱 !!! One is usually enough....

Sounds like you're already thinking of at least one situation, to me.

37 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

On 2021-06-10 at 5:51 PM, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Passive
Enemies within 4m of Frost are slowed by 25%. (Stacks multiplicatively with other slows. 50% slow in combination with this one does not result in a 75% slow.)

50 + 25 = 75 is an Addative Effect is it not ?

If it was Multiplicative then it would be 50 + 25 = 62.5% right ?

You missed the "not".

39 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

On 2021-06-10 at 7:36 PM, Wyrmius_Prime said:

This would make me permanently bench Frost completely and never play him again. He already slows the pace at which missions can be completed by too much.

Good Point 🤔....

I often forget that In a Grinding Game.... We want things to go Faster not slower.

See:

On 2021-06-10 at 8:24 PM, BiancaRoughfin said:

Its got 4 meters range, how is this going to slow the pace mission are completed? It will make enemies within Melee range of you slow down and give you more time to react. Its an upgraded version of Sentinel`s Coolant Leak mod (3 meters 10% slow).

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

I'm mainly referring to supporting squad mates here, like between terminals on Mobile Defense.

In that case ?

Do they need it ?

That's not a Rhetorical question.... I ask because I haven't played in years so I don't know how the Community's General Survivability is in game....

1 hour ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Which is another reason to differentiate them.

Oh.... Good.... I thought maybe there was something I missed. 😁....

1 hour ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Sounds like you're already thinking of at least one situation, to me.

Well you can technically use it with the Augment to Solo Interception Missions..... Since Frost will be the only thing worth Shooting at... The enemies won't be destroying the Bubbles which means they don't need excessive stacking of Multiple Casts....

The only reason I didn't mention it is because the Augment is RNG....

And I hate RNG 😠 !!!

1 hour ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

You missed the "not".

LoL.... It's officiall.... I'm illiterate... They should just Shoot me and be done with it.

1 hour ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

See:

On 2021-06-10 at 8:24 PM, BiancaRoughfin said:

Its got 4 meters range, how is this going to slow the pace mission are completed? It will make enemies within Melee range of you slow down and give you more time to react. Its an upgraded version of Sentinel`s Coolant Leak mod (3 meters 10% slow).

If it's range is going to be that small I'd honestly rather have something else....

Perhaps As a Passive Frost can wear a pair of Designer Shades to show how Cool he is.... That's still Fits his theme right ? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Seriously though.... Coming up with something good in this case sounds really hard...

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

11 hours ago, Lutesque said:

13 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

I'm mainly referring to supporting squad mates here, like between terminals on Mobile Defense.

In that case ?

Do they need it ?

That's not a Rhetorical question.... I ask because I haven't played in years so I don't know how the Community's General Survivability is in game....

Honestly, with the state the game's currently in, there's little to no need for defensively supporting your squad mates. With that said, I think there should still be frames with the ability to do so, like Trinity, Gara, and Night Equinox, and considering Frost's protective kit, I think it'd make sense to expand this ability beyond his 4 augment.

11 hours ago, Lutesque said:

Well you can technically use it with the Augment to Solo Interception Missions..... Since Frost will be the only thing worth Shooting at... The enemies won't be destroying the Bubbles which means they don't need excessive stacking of Multiple Casts....

Yeah, there's that one, and also Excavation. While you'll rarely have 4 excavators active at once (except that one Fortuna bounty, IIRC), there is still an upside there to being able to mod your Globe survivability in a noticeable way.

11 hours ago, Lutesque said:

If it's range is going to be that small I'd honestly rather have something else....

Perhaps As a Passive Frost can wear a pair of Designer Shades to show how Cool he is.... That's still Fits his theme right ? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Seriously though.... Coming up with something good in this case sounds really hard...

Yeah, it would be one of the "kinda weak but useful" passives, like Ivara's enemy radar or Mirage's parkour speed. If one wanted to give him something strong yet fitting, one could make him completely freeze enemies at 10 cold stacks, or pulse cold procs to close-by enemies each second, or give him Armor for each enemy currently affected by a cold proc (like a defensive version of Ember's new passive). Basically anything's better than his current passive, though, with how inconsistent and suicidal it is.

[Tiltskillet]

On 2021-06-10 at 10:36 AM, Wyrmius_Prime said:

On 2021-06-10 at 8:51 AM, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Passive
Enemies within 4m of Frost are slowed by 25%.

This would make me permanently bench Frost completely and never play him again. He already slows the pace at which missions can be completed by too much.

I'm sure you just misread or overlooked the range, but it's pretty amusing thinking about what kind of play would be negatively affected by that passive.  Somebody who wants to not use their movement keys or movement abilities, not use ranged abilities or weapons to kill things, and insists on using either ultra short range ability kills or wielding melee weapons with no reach?  Now that's what I call an alternative playstyle.

"Hi, I love Warframe and really enjoy Frost's panache.  But I exclusively play Barnacle Builds due to my personal beliefs, and I just can't make him work for me with that new *##!^&!! passive.  DE PLEASE REVERT!"

Anyway, totally pointless offtopic, but it's a free bump at least.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

3 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

I'm sure you just misread or overlooked the range, but it's pretty amusing thinking about what kind of play would be negatively affected by that passive.  Somebody who wants to not use their movement keys or movement abilities, not use ranged abilities or weapons to kill things, and insists on using either ultra short range ability kills or wielding melee weapons with no reach?  Now that's what I call an alternative playstyle.

"Hi, I love Warframe and really enjoy Frost's panache.  But I exclusively play Barnacle Builds due to my personal beliefs, and I just can't make him work for me with that new *##!^&!! passive.  DE PLEASE REVERT!"

Anyway, totally pointless offtopic, but it's a free bump at least.

To me, any kind of slowing effect is a bad thing. If your counter argument is ''it is not really going to affect anything'', then the two arguments at play here are that the passive is either a flat negative or it is useless. That's in fact a step down from the current passive being only useless.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

To me, any kind of slowing effect is a bad thing. If your counter argument is ''it is not really going to affect anything'' . . .

My point is that the range is short enough it's  not going to affect any normal player negatively.

I'm not attached to this specific proposal in any way, but I do think with a stronger percentage slow it would be a decent passive.  Which is more than I'd say of the current one.

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

2 hours ago, Wyrmius_Prime said:

To me, any kind of slowing effect is a bad thing.

So, you'd prefer it if Globe didn't have a slow inside of it? Right, got it.

6 hours ago, Tiltskillet said:

but it's a free bump at least.

I appreciate!

[Lutesque]

9 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Honestly, with the state the game's currently in, there's little to no need for defensively supporting your squad mates. With that said, I think there should still be frames with the ability to do so, like Trinity, Gara, and Night Equinox, and considering Frost's protective kit, I think it'd make sense to expand this ability beyond his 4 augment.

I know one buff that any player wouldn't mind getting from someone else.....

Reload Speed !!!!

It's the one thing everybody wants but nobody mods for....

I mean Fire Rate and Attack Speed is nice but some people don't want excessive Recoil or Excessive Failing on their Weapons.... But everybody wants Reload Speed 😁 !!!!

9 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

or give him Armor for each enemy currently affected by a cold proc (like a defensive version of Ember's new passive).

There we go !!!! I like that one... Gimme that one !!! 🙂

9 hours ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Basically anything's better than his current passive, though, with how inconsistent and suicidal it is.

Oh yeah... I forgot all Melee Enemy Attacks are significantly more Dangerous now.... Including Volatile Runners.... Jeez those things really hurt....

 

[selig_fay]

On 6/17/2021 at 2:16 AM, Lutesque said:

mean Fire Rate and Attack Speed is nice but some people don't want excessive Recoil or Excessive Failing on their Weapons.... But everybody wants Reload Speed

!!!!!

 

This only works with weapons with a battery. With fast reloading and high rate of fire, you'll just run out of ammo fast. And yes, just put the Chroma ability on and paint yourself green.

[Lutesque]

10 hours ago, selig_fay said:

This only works with weapons with a battery. With fast reloading and high rate of fire, you'll just run out of ammo fast. And yes, just put the Chroma ability on and paint yourself green.

Good.... I wish I had that issue more often.... I mean it's a nice Trade off isn't it ? 😁

 

[selig_fay]

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

Good.... I wish I had that issue more often.... I mean it's a nice Trade off isn't it ?

😁

 

Well, I think the ammo efficiency works better.)

[Lutesque]

1 hour ago, selig_fay said:

Well, I think the ammo efficiency works better.)

That's one of the things that bugged me about President Evil 5....

I really dislike Firing my weapon for long periods of Time without Reloading.... Even without Gears Of War Style Active Reload Gimmick I still love Reloading.... I just want it to be faster 😝