Do you feel respected by DE as a player (time investment in the lategame for unlocks)?

[uAir]

Oh my... Scroll past all this TLDR stuff I have and read the bolded sentence at the end.

Let's put some things into perspective here with some real world, past experiences in online games that I've had.

Maplestory.
In its normal state it averaged about 10 hours to level up 1 time. A frightful moment of lag or some stupid glitch or dumb bug could get you killed and that happened a lot. Each time you died it was an average of 1 hour of gameplay lost because you lost exp also. The areas to grind up were so contested that people would often just take each other's kills and it was the norm to spend 1-3 hours sometimes just checking popular leveling spots until you found a spot to level up. Many of the items that you needed to gear up with were also not dropped in popular leveling up spots. On average, it would take 2-3 weeks of 10+ hours of grinding per day to buy a fraction of your gear to level up. This is gearing towards top end damage.

Vindictus.
Imagine that each time you put a forma on a frame or a weapon it had a 50% chance of blowing up. The second forma has an 80% chance of blowing the item up. Third forma? That's 95% chance of it being destroyed. Fourth? 99% chance of it being destroyed. Good freaking luck if you need anything at 5 formas. But wait, there's more. To farm one weapon or one frame would average 1 year of grinding at least 8 hours a day. To farm a frame? You think Warframe is grindy? You kids literally have no idea what that means. Also, unless one of the top 1% of skilled players was on your team to solo the mission, it was likely to fail. That means out of the 8 hours you were grinding, unless you were the top 1% of experience and skill level who knew what to do to win and how to win, you were wasting that 8 hours every day by just failing mission after mission and getting zero rewards. Until such a time as when you got good enough to carry on your own. There is nothing in Warframe difficulty that scales or compares to this.

Monster Hunter World
800 hours in. I finally get ONE jewel that I needed for my builds. Imagine playing 800 hours of Warframe and finally getting Serration. It's kind of like that. Not absolutely necessary to win or to perform but man does it make modding and life simpler in 99% of the game's content.

Guild Wars 2
A completely different gameplay model from Warframe but in some respects they do treat the players better. On some other aspects, my gods... have you tried getting a full set of ascended let alone legendary gear? It can literally take a year to get the legendary gear unless you want to brute force it with 10+ hours a day for a couple of months and numb your brain to it. However, once that is done you're kind of set. But also, what you get out of the game is completely different from Warframe because the power scope that your character has is nowhere close to what Warframe has. The only thing that GW2 does better than WF is the PVP. And even that is kind of stagnant. Also, if I wanted PVP I'd just go play a fighting game. Guilty Gear Strive is out and is really fun. :)

Black Desert
I can't even go on anymore... If you're one of the people that think this game is good then good for you.

=========

Warframe, on the other hand. When a new prime frame and prime weapons are released, playing about 4 hours a day. I basically average about 1 weeks to obtain the new prime frame and weapons. But some people think this is grindy? A Kuva weapon? Oh my, a couple of 3 minute walks through Adaro at Sedna and I have the Kuva weapon I want. Maybe 2-4 hours running some murmurs and I have the weapon. Oh no... so much grind! #sarcasm

I really don't know where people come at Warframe saying the grind is too much. It literally reminds me of young kids coming out of college at my workplace who get to work and do nothing but sit around chatting for 3 hours complaining about how much work they have to do. Literally, your parents should've done us all a favor and sent you to a farm to work 14 hours a day for a few summers for you to really understand what work is. And you should go play other games that want nothing but your money (*cough*Genshin*cough*Impact*cough*) before you come back here making baseless and senseless remarks about DE and Warframe. Yes, some things take time. Yes, they want you use plat for convenience on some things if you feel the need to. But, that's not required for ANYTHING, AT ALL!

Some things have to be done in sequence? Maybe, but I know that within a few months of playing Warframe I was running and soloing endgame content and it was just then up to me to do whatever I wanted. A lot of it involved helping people out or just chatting with friends and playing missions. Running relics, farming for relics, farming for some mods, etc. I can say with absolute certainty that it never took more than a few days to get anything that I wanted in Warframe aside from things that were gated behind daily standing. But even then, it took much less than 24 hours of total gameplay to get it, if you get what I'm trying to say here.

There is a reason I support DE. It is, so far, the only game of this kind that I've found to respect and care for their player base.

If you find a game out there of this kind (Warframe's caliber and style and base) that treats its players better, please let me know and I will fairly assess it and listen to what you have to say.

[WingR84]

Am 30.7.2021 um 09:42 schrieb Butterfly85:

lay the damn game or don't. If a grind is too crappy for you, then don't do it.

As i said before... it's not that i dont like the grind... it's adding grind to stuff that people dont enjoy to make you play it.... and then people never go back there again, because it wasnt fun. Please dont tell me that anyone plays those "escport" missions that you needed to grind for Harrow or that anyone plays Mobile Defence if it's not part of a quest or Nightwave.

 

Am 30.7.2021 um 09:42 schrieb Butterfly85:

It's free to play, of course DE are going to have things in place to monetise, but at least in this game EVERYTHING that advances mastery and progression is obtainable without spending a penny, if you're willing to work for it, or wait for it.

And here we come to my point... i buy some things with plat, because the time to grind for it sometimes isnt worth it by design, while it was before they started to test the limites with what they can and cant do. You know... when the first warframe parts had a 33% chance per part... and then it switches over to systems having 22% and the others 39% on later bosses.

 

Am 31.7.2021 um 04:41 schrieb Tsukinoki:

If you're engaged with the sister system then its a functionally infinite resource that will never go away.
You have to be purposefully avoiding the treasurer in order to run out of the Zenith crowns...which is 100% on the player for letting it get to that point.

For Lichs i do the mission on Sedna and you can quit/restart the mission once you saw the Kuvaweapon.
So thank you for proving my point... you by yourself say that you need to do something extra that you didnt had to do before, therefor making the grind to spawn the correct weapon (that will have a lower and lover chance anytime they add more weapons to the Sisters) beeing worse than the Kuva Lich system.

 

If they add the Invested versions you can be sure that it will be the most painfull system that is possible based on numbers that they think we can tollerate.
THIS is my point here, because they dont "respect" you here so you have fun... but they want to make you suffer als much as they cant get awaywith.

By the way... did you notice that i dont complain about the railjack missions to farm Holokeys? That's because i can pick what mission i want to run to get the keys and they drop while doing relics, but the Railjack survival forces the whole group to quit, because you need to leave with the Railjack as a team

[RichardKam]

I don't know if it was already covered, but in my opinion, kuva and tenet variants giving you extra mod capacity per forma actually is a good thing. It means you don't need that many forma for your builds.

So unless you want to install lens on your kuva/tenet variants, or want to squeeze that little MR rank out of them, there really is no point in going for 5 forma for them.

Kuva/tenet weapon pool dilution. That is a fair point. But I believe DE will find a way out of this. Obviously it was not considered a problem when Lich was first introduced. The Lich system was revamped a few times already. And just like the harrow farm, it is always easier to grind relics, farm prime parts, sell them, earn plat, and buy them from other people/market.

The bottom line is, the grind is only unbearable if you want that new stuff right here, right now, at max rank 40 and max power of 60% bonus. Most of the time, I don't really need that. Even if I do, DE gives me an alternative way to earn it by trading. So no, I don't feel disrespected. "Disrespect" is quite a strong word to use tbh.

 

[(PSN)JustJoshinEnt]

Honestly, this OP is akin to walking into a FREE BUFFET and complaining because Chili is on the menu and not Pizza.  The entitlement is absurd.

DE owes us nothing.  The game is completely FREE.  They ask NOTHING in return other than that we give it a try, download and play it, and if we WANT to, buy something so they can afford to continue to keep their lights on.

DE is a BUSINESS, not a charity, and certainly not your personal dopamine slave.

You do not OWN them.  If you enjoy the game, play it.  If you do not, don't play it.  If you have suggestions on how to improve something in the game, put it in Feedback.

Just whining for the sake of whining is juvenile and unproductive.

....and certainly is NOT "respectful" of anyone's time here.

 

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On 2021-07-27 at 11:19 AM, WingR84 said:

I enjoy the game, but i start to feel that they think that "make stuff take longer to get" = more content and i feel disrespected by this
I would bet that we will get Mech/Archgun arcanes from Railjack Orphix in the future, because nobody plays it... so they will create a grindy reason for us to play it.

Why is this a problem?

We have:
19 Kuva weapons
8 Sister weapons
4 Weapons that you buy for holo keys
2 Mechs

33 things that need 5 forma = 165 Forma to get them to lvl 40

So you need AT LEAST 165 days where you login every day

Do you feel respected by DE here?

————————-///////-/////////————-////——-

1st, OP.  STOP letting FOMO 
ruin you QoL.

Warframe is a marriage between consumer and entertainment provider.

 Ultimately DE’s responsibility to us is to make sure they can pay the bills and to make sure content is rewarding enough to justify the time spent.

At this stage in the game’s lifecycle, that is the real challenge.  The art has always been it’s strength and people will pay for FF/customization and world/setting exploration.

DE is trying to broaden their market (smart by keeping spec requirements lower and cross play), push the grind to keep people playing, and diversify gameplay.

The last two are where DE faces huge challenges.

I have yet to see any alternative combat/progression system introduced that is as fun/rewarding as the gun and sword combat that made this game a worldwide phenomenon 5 years ago…but even part of that is nostalgia because it has evolved.

So they are trying to frame different types of gameplay AROUND that without quality drop-off with mixed results but always attempting to improve.

Open World, Liches, Railjack, …and hunting/animal capture and space snowboarding.

Decide what is worth your time and don’t let FOMO with these progression systems.

 

 

[Polarwaved]

Yes. I've played enough to be drowning in forma and resources, many of the things people usually complain about i find not to be a problem and the time investment isn't an issue because i don't feel like i need things immediately. I feel like many people get angry over having to actually spend time in order to get the things they want.

[(XBOX)Koeitje3712]

I'd like to add to this discussion that the grind in Warframe actually isn't that bad compared to classic loot based games such as Diablo 2 (where you could literally need a million runs to get an item). My biggest gripe as a sort of new player (mr18, something like 160 daily rewards) is that certain rewards are locked behind login rewards, which are impossible to grind even if you wanted to.

[Steel_Rook]

On 2021-07-27 at 6:19 PM, WingR84 said:

So you need AT LEAST 165 days where you login every day and start to craft formas as it is... at it will get harder and harder.

This has probably been mentioned before, but: you can farm for six months, or you can spend ~2000 Plat. It's expensive, to be sure - just like the rest of the game. This is why I often describe Warframe as "not a free game with optional monetisation but a paid game with a free trial." The F2P experience in this game is horrible by design. Unlike a lot of P2W Live Services out there, though, at least the paid experience is pretty sedate. And not that expensive, all things considered. Even without 75% off, I can get that much for €20, which in most other games will buy me a couple of character skins and some change.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

9 hours ago, (XBOX)Koeitje3712 said:

I'd like to add to this discussion that the grind in Warframe actually isn't that bad compared to classic loot based games such as Diablo 2 (where you could literally need a million runs to get an item). My biggest gripe as a sort of new player (mr18, something like 160 daily rewards) is that certain rewards are locked behind login rewards, which are impossible to grind even if you wanted to.

That's a good thing though. Warframe has every type of reward structure possible...including flat out giving a reward for zero effort. Having yet another surprise reward, like a special login, makes it even better.