Rememberance Day

[nslay]

On 2021-10-29 at 9:33 AM, SneakyErvin said:

Sorry but it would just cringe me out. It turns into one of those "these people that made sacrifices are more worth it than those people that made sacrifices" when not all veterans across the world would get the same treatment and respect.

 

Well, WWI was probably one of the worst wars for soldiers. I think the phrase "over the top" was coined in WWI owing to how trench warfare worked before tanks were invented... I guess a squad would go "over the top" to charge the other trench and be machine gunned down. And if machine gun stalemate wasn't enough, there was all sorts of health problems associated with living in trenches... along with the use of chemical warfare in WWI. Nasty stuff!

[SneakyErvin]

5 minutes ago, nslay said:

Well, WWI was probably one of the worst wars for soldiers. I think the phrase "over the top" was coined in WWI owing to how trench warfare worked before tanks were invented... I guess a squad would go "over the top" to charge the other trench and be machine gunned down. And if machine gun stalemate wasn't enough, there was all sorts of health problems associated with living in trenches... along with the use of chemical warfare in WWI. Nasty stuff!

Sure it was, but it also left little to no effect on a large part of the world, aside from the aftermath with the spanish flu and such. I would find WW2 much better to remember as an event in a game, since the war effected people on a completely different level, even in places that were more or less completely seperated from it. Not to mention the genocides and the holocaust. 

edit: I mean, no soldier's death can compare to the annihilation of civilians imo.

[nslay]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Not to mention the genocides and the holocaust. 

Don't forget the use of nuclear weapons on civilians.

[SneakyErvin]

22 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Now that is some mental gymnastics mate. Recognising TWO nations celebrations IS Political. Asking that a company, that is for all intents in purpose Canadian (Regardless if it is owned by China, it still functions outside of China under CANADIAN Law) to actually take a moment and reflect on the depth of commitment, sacrifice and loss anyone has had to war? That is political? War may start with politics, but on the battlefield, no one gives a S#&$ about who you voted for.

As petty as it is to say, DE goes out of its way to bend the knee to what ever virtue signalling cause of the day (with a few notable exceptions) is screaming loudest. Yet we are all comfortable to profit in one way or another from actions that are in reality horrible to consider.

The 11th of November is a day to stop and think about such actions, recognised by a great many nations on this earth. Whether you call it Veterans day, Remembrance day, or what ever you chose to call it, given DE is a Canadian Company, I do not see the harm in recognising that day (11th of Nov)  as a day to stop and reflect what has been gained and lost from the actions of those who were willing to serve our nations. It is a day to be humble, not virtuous. Actions it seems that  are lost upon many people these days.

As I said before, Lore wise no other day of recognition makes sense. Would we really celebrate Easter, Valentines, Xmas, St Patty's day, or Halloween so many years in the future? Yet War still exists, the Sentient War was a war like the First and Second, many billions of lives lost, and it seems we are about to enter another great war. To take a day to stop and think about that, lore wise or in reality... again out of the question?

How is that political? There are no political part in either, it is simple tradition and culture. And I think recognizing the death of soldiers is less important than recognizing the death of innocent bystanders. Soldiers sign up for war, civilans dont. So I'd say, find a day that celebrates both of them the most and in the most universal way. Which would be WW2 ending, a war where unspeakable amounts of civilans died in the most gruesome ways, ways that would make the battlefield look like a playground.

[000MrWolf000]

The sad thing is I am in my mid50's now and I remember when days like veterans day, memorial day and whatever names other nations have for their equivalent days of reflection. They was never political in any way. Veterans day was a day to set aside and honor those that served. Memorial days was a day to honor those that fell. They are days to reflect and remember history so as not to be doomed to repeat said history. 

 

[CuChulainnWD]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

How is that political? There are no political part in either, it is simple tradition and culture. And I think recognizing the death of soldiers is less important than recognizing the death of innocent bystanders. Soldiers sign up for war, civilans dont. So I'd say, find a day that celebrates both of them the most and in the most universal way. Which would be WW2 ending, a war where unspeakable amounts of civilans died in the most gruesome ways, ways that would make the battlefield look like a playground.

No where did I say it was for soldiers alone mate. Please read carefully.

 "Sure it was, but it also left little to no effect on a large part of the world, aside from the aftermath with the spanish flu and such."

The First World War was just that. It was horrifying, just because it was not something you can more personally relate to (Second World War) by no means makes its significance any less impactful on the world. (I will give you a small tip of the ice berg clue what significance WW I had. Check out the middle East.) I would suggest you start reading a little more history if you think that is the case.

It sounds pretty dismissive to say soldiers sign up for War, and civilians don't. Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why Soldiers would sign up to their armed forces? Honestly mate, maybe you do need to understand and appreciate "Remembrance"  because honestly, it sounds like to me that you take your life, possessions and ideas for granted. The modernity we enjoy to day, to be able to do what we do, think what we think, and say what we say, all of it comes from the sacrifices made by those "expendable" lives that signed up for it.

 

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

No where did I say it was for soldiers alone mate. Please read carefully.

The First World War was just that. It was horrifying, just because it was not something you can more personally relate to (Second World War) by no means makes its significance any less impactful on the world. I would suggest you start reading a little more history if you think that is the case.

But it is mainly for soldiers who have died in the service. That is the conception most would have, few would know or care about the connection to WW1 and the truce etc. And I doubt DE would give us a history lesson to teach us about how it relates to the horrors of war besides "soldiers die". While something connected to WW2, unrelated to veteran's days and so on, would automatically be relatable for pretty much anyone who has attended basic school.

And I really cant see how you can say WW1 was as impactful on the world as WW2. WW2 nearly removed a full tribe of people from the face of the earth.

[Surbusken]

On 2021-10-29 at 6:54 PM, (PSN)Unstar said:

I think it's be a bad idea to have in-game celebrations/honors that relate to real-world conflicts between nations; it seems like there's too much potential to cause needless intra-cultural conflict.  Celebrating "our" holiday and not "their" holiday brings an unnecessary dividing line into the community.

 

I'd say the opposite.

We can't really celebrate anything or have any holidays, if it had to be universal.

 

[CuChulainnWD]

19 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

But it is mainly for soldiers who have died in the service. That is the conception most would have, few would know or care about the connection to WW1 and the truce etc. And I doubt DE would give us a history lesson to teach us about how it relates to the horrors of war besides "soldiers die". While something connected to WW2, unrelated to veteran's days and so on, would automatically be relatable for pretty much anyone who has attended basic school.

And I really cant see how you can say WW1 was as impactful on the world as WW2. WW2 nearly removed a full tribe of people from the face of the earth.

I say to you read more history because your understanding of how the world really works, is sorely lacking. If DE even acknowledged Remembrance, it might be enough to have people educate themselves.  What you say seems like lame excuses for  an ungrateful selfish entitled people.

The First World War has ramifications on our political, religious and economic situation now as much or more than the Second World War has. The troubles in the middle east as I pointed out to you. Day light Saving time has economic ramifications on the world today too. The former being more significant than the latter. Hell the Second World War came about because of the out come of the First. Kinda like what is happening in Warframe.

Why you are fixated on the semantics of which war was worse is beyond me anyway. Remembrance  came about because of the horrors learned in the First World War. Since then it represents the horrors, sacrificed and lives lived and lost in all Wars.

War comes with a price. It is not a pretty or glorious one. It is  time perhaps people remember that.

[nslay]

55 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

The First World War was just that. It was horrifying, just because it was not something you can more personally relate to (Second World War) by no means makes its significance any less impactful on the world. (I will give you a small tip of the ice berg clue what significance WW I had. Check out the middle East.) I would suggest you start reading a little more history if you think that is the case.

It sounds pretty dismissive to say soldiers sign up for War, and civilians don't. Have you ever stopped to ask yourself why Soldiers would sign up to their armed forces? Honestly mate, maybe you do need to understand and appreciate "Remembrance"  because honestly, it sounds like to me that you take your life, possessions and ideas for granted. The modernity we enjoy to day, to be able to do what we do, think what we think, and say what we say, all of it comes from the sacrifices made by those "expendable" lives that signed up for it.

While I don't want to compare WWI to other wars, I think WWI had an enormous effect on the world... it redefined countries, boundaries, governments and world politics. And it even precipitated WWII... bad idea to severely punish countries like that.

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, CuChulainnWD said:

I say to you read more history because your understanding of how the world really works, is sorely lacking. DE even acknowledging Remembrance might be enough to have people educate themselves.  What you say seems like lame excuses for  an ungrateful selfish entitled people.

The First World War has ramifications on our political, religious and economic situation now as much or more than the Second World War has. The troubles in the middle east as I pointed out to you. Day light Saving time has economic ramifications on the world today too. The former being more significant than the latter. Hell the Second World War came about because of the out come of the First. Kinda like what is happening in Warframe.

War comes with a price. It is not a pretty or glorious one. It is  time perhaps people remember that.

I'm neither selfish or entitled, nor do I have anything against remembrance day or what it stands for. I simply find it very unfitting for the game. Just you getting so upset is an excuse not to have it, since there are people on the other side of it aswell that will get upset. 

Not all ideas are good.

[CuChulainnWD]

11 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm neither selfish or entitled, nor do I have anything against remembrance day or what it stands for. I simply find it very unfitting for the game. Just you getting so upset is an excuse not to have it, since there are people on the other side of it aswell that will get upset. 

Not all ideas are good.

There are numerous nations and their people that would disagree with you. I find it fascinating you are so willing to dismiss the lives of people that are willing to put their lives on the to protect your rights, freedoms and thoughts as expendable because someone is advocating to recognize, reflect and remember their contribution to the very privileges we experience today.

That is a bad idea, but you would advocate for frivolous virtue signalling "celebrations" as being ok. Yet you play a game that happily profits from and glorifies War. The irony being, Remembrance is not a celebration but an examination of we a people to understand the cost of War regardless of nation, race, religion or creed.

I am not upset. Not in the least. I am disappointed by the apathy some people have for what they have, taking it for granted at the expense of those that made it possible for them to appreciate it. .

[SneakyErvin]

6 minutes ago, CuChulainnWD said:

There are numerous nations and their people that would disagree with you.

Ah yes, all those nations that care what events run in WF.

edit: WHO really supports Plague Star by the way!

[Birdframe_Prime]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And I think recognizing the death of soldiers is less important than recognizing the death of innocent bystanders.

My friend, I think you're misunderstanding the point of Remembrance Day.

The Soldiers are a symbol, the Poppies are there because they grow over the graves and on the battlefields where the ground was torn up, and the message of the day is to remember that War is not about winning or losing, it's about killing. The death of soldiers and the death of civilians.

It's a day to take a pause and be aware of how terrible the consequences of war are, and as a symbol we place poppies on the monuments to the fallen, both soldiers and civilians.

Because in war, especially in the World Wars, they all died. Whether they signed up or not. And it's a tragedy on a level that was incomprehensible before that.

There is nothing wrong with asking the question to have this added, and there is nothing wrong with the day itself being recognised in the game.

[CuChulainnWD]

1 minute ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

My friend, I think you're misunderstanding the point of Remembrance Day.

The Soldiers are a symbol, the Poppies are there because they grow over the graves and on the battlefields where the ground was torn up, and the message of the day is to remember that War is not about winning or losing, it's about killing. The death of soldiers and the death of civilians.

It's a day to take a pause and be aware of how terrible the consequences of war are, and as a symbol we place poppies on the monuments to the fallen, both soldiers and civilians.

Because in war, especially in the World Wars, they all died. Whether they signed up or not. And it's a tragedy on a level that was incomprehensible before that.

There is nothing wrong with asking the question to have this added, and there is nothing wrong with the day itself being recognised in the game.

Thankyou

[SneakyErvin]

19 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

My friend, I think you're misunderstanding the point of Remembrance Day.

No not really, I'm simply pointing out that not everyone in the world celebrates this or have any connections to it at all. Which kinda defeats the purpose of it.

[CuChulainnWD]

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No not really, I'm simply pointing out that not everyone in the world celebrates this or have any connections to it at all. Which kinda defeats the purpose of it.

No one Celebrates Remembrance day. That is your misunderstanding number one. As I pointed out to you, not everyone in the world "celebrates" all the other Western holidays that DE panders to. Yet you seem to be quite content with those.

I am suggesting DE actually recognise  a day that actually has some significant meaning to the world population (Not Everyone), based on their own western values, understanding of history, and the cost of what DE likes to glorify and celebrate on a daily bases whilst making money from it.

Remembrance is the exact OPPOSITE of a celebration. It is more of a lamentation and a reminder of what we should be avoiding at all costs. If more people actually took the time to understand that concept, and not have the dismissive attitude towards lives (one being more valuable than another) we might have fewer wars, genocides and exterminations in our history.  Now do you get it?

[Arniox]

On 2021-10-29 at 12:24 PM, CuChulainnWD said:

@[DE]Rebecca Remembrance day is coming again Thursday 11th November. It would be nice if we could honour our veterans alive and dead with a Red Lotus Blossom. purchased with plat or credits, and possible proceeds being donated to the London Legion.

Lore wise it could represent the remembrance of the fallen Dax and Tenno soldiers of the first Sentient War. The new war is coming, it just seems appropriate.

@[DE]RebeccaIf we actually do rememberance day (which I would fully support), we also have to do ANZAC day on the 25th of April, 2022.

I'm Kiwi, and it's observed by Australia, Christmas Islands, Cocos Islands, Cook Islands, New Zealand, Nortfolk Island, Niue, Tonga, Tokelau, French Polynesia, Belgium, France and Turkey.

I am very proud of Anzac day as I've celebrated here in NZ for my whole life and have great grand family that fought in WW1 and my grandfather fought in WW2. Plus we have a bugel in a maori musem here in NZ from one of our great grand family members.

Memorial day is also celebrated by New Zealand (although much less than Anzac day) and.... 54 other countries

Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Bangaldesh, Barvados, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Cameroon, Canada, Cyprus, Dominica, Eswatini, Fiji, Gambia, Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, India, Jamaica, Kenya, Kiribati, Lesotho, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Mozambique, Mamibia, Nauru, New Zealand, Nigeria, Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, Rwanda, Saint Kitts, Saint Lucia, Sant Vincent, Samoa, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Tanzania, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, the UK, Vanuatu, and Zambia.

So yes, please do Poppy Day on both Memorial Day (this november the 11th) and Anzac day (25th of Apirl 2022) @[DE]Rebecca

[Arniox]

On 2021-10-30 at 6:38 AM, Fallen77 said:

Pardon my ignorance, but is this an international thing for all veterans ever ? Or just an american thing ?

Not that I have anything against american veterans, but it would feel weird to celebrate an american only thing. Why not celebrate the french revolution too then ?

Rememberence day is just a specific day used by 54 countries to remmeber any conflict. WW1 AND WW2 and some others. This specific day is not called this by the US . Read my above comment for the list of countries that observe rememberence day. Instead the US uses Veterans Day

The US' Veteran's day (which also lands on the same day of 11th of November) is basically the same thing, just rebranded for the US. The US also celebrate Memorial Day which always lands on the Last Monday of May.

It's called Rememberence day and is named that way by basically everyone except the US who fought in WW1 and 2. There's also Anzac day which is celebrated by a smaller list of countries including my own, in July.

 

All of the different "named days" are basically the same thing and celebrated by most countries that fought in the big wars. They're just sometimes at slightly different dates for different reasons. The US has their own seperate dates. If OP had said Veteran day, then it would piss more people off because that day is ONLY celebrated by the US. Whereas Rememberence day is celebrated by most of the world and is the general day for the world. Often reffered to as Poppy Day.

[L3512]

On 2021-10-29 at 11:33 PM, SneakyErvin said:

Sorry but it would just cringe me out. It turns into one of those "these people that made sacrifices are more worth it than those people that made sacrifices" when not all veterans across the world would get the same treatment and respect.

 

On 2021-10-30 at 2:54 AM, (PSN)Unstar said:

I think it's be a bad idea to have in-game celebrations/honors that relate to real-world conflicts between nations; it seems like there's too much potential to cause needless intra-cultural conflict.  Celebrating "our" holiday and not "their" holiday brings an unnecessary dividing line into the community.

 

On 2021-10-30 at 8:37 AM, Arcsyrine said:

This could get real political, real fast... I doubt it would get added.

 

Remembrance Day is a day where we stop what we are doing a spend time thinking about the millions of people that died in wars.

It's not a celebration and it's not political.

How is that a hard concept to understand?

[sitfesz]

On 2021-10-29 at 1:24 AM, CuChulainnWD said:

@[DE]Rebecca Remembrance day is coming again Thursday 11th November. It would be nice if we could honour our veterans alive and dead with a Red Lotus Blossom. purchased with plat or credits, and possible proceeds being donated to the London Legion.

Lore wise it could represent the remembrance of the fallen Dax and Tenno soldiers of the first Sentient War. The new war is coming, it just seems appropriate.

Nah man, I heard they are too busy making the new war.

[L3512]

8 hours ago, nslay said:

I guess a squad would go "over the top" to charge the other trench and be machine gunned down.

More than just a squad, the British forces took almost sixty thousand casualties during the first day of the Somme alone. 

 

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Sure it was, but it also left little to no effect on a large part of the world, aside from the aftermath with the spanish flu and such.

Firstly soldiers from across the globe were involved in WW1 as England and France were both colonial powers, other countries joined them such as China, Brazil, Japan and Thailand.

Here is a map. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allies_of_World_War_I#/media/File:WWI.png

Secondly WW1 set the course of modern history and the world today.

 

8 hours ago, nslay said:

Don't forget the use of nuclear weapons on civilians.

The fire bombing of Tokyo basically targeted civilians and killed more than either atomic weapon, both atomic weapons were targeting sites of industrial or military importance.

Still the two hundred and forty thousand casualties were better than Japanese's up to twenty million prediction if the allies invaded.  

 

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And I think recognizing the death of soldiers is less important than recognizing the death of innocent bystanders. Soldiers sign up for war, civilans dont. So I'd say, find a day that celebrates both of them the most and in the most universal way. Which would be WW2 ending, a war where unspeakable amounts of civilans died in the most gruesome ways, ways that would make the battlefield look like a playground.

The Japanese tortured, starved and executed soldiers and civilians alike, it was exceedingly barbaric behavior that did not differentiate. I don't think one horror trivializes another nor can that be used as an argument against Remembrance Day.    

 

6 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And I really cant see how you can say WW1 was as impactful on the world as WW2. WW2 nearly removed a full tribe of people from the face of the earth.

The Turkish commenced the Armenian genocide during WW1, the soviet famine of 1932-1933 killed 38% of the ethnic Kazakhs.

If you are referring to the Jewish holocaust when you say "nearly removed a full tribe of people from the face of the earth" that was about a third of the global Jewish population.

Why even look to wars for genocides? Communist Russia and China have starved or purged tens of millions of people, the Khmer Rouge brutally murdered almost twenty five percent of the Cambodian population in four years. 

 

Remembrance Day is about remembering the people killed in wars and the true costs of conflict, not comparing overall death tolls.

[CuChulainnWD]

2 hours ago, sitfesz said:

Nah man, I heard they are too busy making the new war.

Oh right! Roger that. Understood. We can take a whole month fund raising, (for a good cause mind you) or make silly colour palettes to virtue signal to certain groups but to actually do something else meaningful that has a significant impact to lives around the world... Nope too busy for that. Kinda shameful really and 8 or more years over due.

[SneakyErvin]

5 hours ago, L3512 said:

Remembrance Day is about remembering the people killed in wars and the true costs of conflict, not comparing overall death tolls.

One thing I'd like to know regarding this and any other death. Do people really think that everyone likes to get remembered about how their loved ones got killed for something or in vein? Especially in something that is supposed to be there to escape reality.

The day is there to celebrate IRL if you like, not everyone handles loss and grief equally, so invading a game isnt the best of ideas regarding such things. This day, just as other days of remembrance brings up very recent and close things for certain people, let them handle their loss and grief as they sit fit where and when they want to, dont impose on that which may be their escape from it.

[Numerikuu]

I understand the sentiment, and while I personally wouldn't mind it being in the the game I feel it doesn't really have much of a place in it either. I'd rather it stay out of video games and in the real world. Feels like it'd... cheapen the day? Idk.

7 hours ago, sitfesz said:

Nah man, I heard they are too busy making the new war.