Prime Resurgence Dev Workshop & FAQ

[SneakyErvin]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)Obi Wan Dandobi said:

This really is some next level white knight b!@#$%^&

It really isnt, I just look at the pure value of what is in the bundles and what we pay for those bundles.

2x Frames = 650

4x Weapons = 500

4x Accessories = 200

4x Glyphs = 80

= 1520p worth of items.

And that's with low costs used for frames and weapons when compared to what normals cost on the market. And cosmetics avaraged at 50 a pop since their counterparts range from 15-100+ plat on the market.

 

[Hokkis31]

17 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

So people are definently getting their moneys worth with or without the plat in those bundles

It is very important to recognize that a lot of people weren't here when the prime access's gave out the different sets. And if they were, perhaps they couldn't afford it then, but can now. Maybe their opinions changed. They didnt want it back then, but now they do. It does not matter.

The platinum bonus is part of the value. Sure, let's say it's added on top of the original value. So the PA pack costs 20, and you get 10 worth of platinum. So the actual price is 30, but reduced to 20 because DE is generous, or whatnot.

However. This is not a physical store. It's not a bulk-buy price reduction. It's an item that does not exist. There is no tangible value in either platinum or cosmetics. Platinum has a use within the game, however. Cosmetics make you look cool, and that's all well and good, but that's it. If you have the money, then that might be good enough a reason to buy it. This is not the case for all people. Some people see the cosmetics as the bonus, and the platinum as the actual value. Other people are on the fence on buying it. If it were only cosmetics, they wouldn't, but with the platinum it's an easier decision, because you get added value. That is the reason for DE putting plat in there to begin with. To entice players to buy the pack. They know that there is a very strong appeal to added platinum. So the "bonus" platinum is just a farce, if you will. It's part of the pack, and ultimatly what decides most player's decision on whether to buy or not.

So to end off on a shorter note. No. A lot of people don't feel they are getting their money's worth without the platinum in those bundles.

 

Also. A side-note. Just because someone has been part of the community for 8 years, doesn't mean they don't care about other players. I don't care about the cosmetics. I have what I desire atm. I care about this because I care about others. I care about those who aren't as fortunate as you who can buy it without much worry. For a fair few of the players (me included), buying only cosmetics is not a very good financial idea. We need added value to even think of considering it. And that value is not endo. It is not credits. It is not extra raya. It is platinum. Either that, or a lower price on the raya-token.

Thank you all for your time

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, Hokkis31 said:

So to end off on a shorter note. No. A lot of people don't feel they are getting their money's worth without the platinum in those bundles.

Of course, but how they feel compared to what they get are two different things. They also ignore the benefit added with the changes, that they can pick whatever accessories they want instead of being forced to spend 20 on a pre-determined duo. There are also players that have been here since the release of the game that complain about this. Why? Why have they not picked up these things with the platinum during these 8(!) years? Why is it suddenly a thing they planned to do in the future? So very conveniant.

[Oorel]

3 hours ago, VoreoTheDragon said:

lowering the cost of some accessories from  3 to 2 isnt enough, make everything just 1 Raya. Then you dont need to change the price of the packs or add platinum. (everything but the big packs obviously, those can stay higher for the sake of convenience, but those need plat)

I wonder if there should be more tiers for purchases instead, now its 1 or 2, but it could be 1, 2 or 4, and the regal aya could be more abundant. I'm not sure though. Right now I feel some items are overpriced, like say noggles or extractors, so making that cheaper with a lower tier may be a solution.

I just wanna say that there is another approach to that issue you brought up. I do think the items have different value inherently and that should be reflected in price somewhat.

[(XBOX)Obi Wan Dandobi]

35 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Of course, but how they feel compared to what they get are two different things. They also ignore the benefit added with the changes, that they can pick whatever accessories they want instead of being forced to spend 20 on a pre-determined duo. There are also players that have been here since the release of the game that complain about this. Why? Why have they not picked up these things with the platinum during these 8(!) years? Why is it suddenly a thing they planned to do in the future? So very conveniant.

You have completely missed the point that Hokkis31 made. As he said he already has everything he wants, I already have everything I want. What he, I and a lot of people don't appreciate is that you are telling people it's as good a deal as it ever was. Newer players may not realise this is untrue and you telling people otherwise is the problem. As I've already said I have no problem if people still want to use this system. It serves a purpose. But you have no right telling people it's as good a value as it ever was. At best this is wrong and at worse this is a blatant lie. I only want players to feel they get a fair deal and this is not so please stop telling people it is.

[SneakyErvin]

16 minutes ago, (XBOX)Obi Wan Dandobi said:

You have completely missed the point that Hokkis31 made. As he said he already has everything he wants, I already have everything I want. What he, I and a lot of people don't appreciate is that you are telling people it's as good a deal as it ever was. Newer players may not realise this is untrue and you telling people otherwise is the problem. As I've already said I have no problem if people still want to use this system. It serves a purpose. But you have no right telling people it's as good a value as it ever was. At best this is wrong and at worse this is a blatant lie. I only want players to feel they get a fair deal and this is not so please stop telling people it is.

The set value is the same, the value in the eyes of the players is a different thing. There is a set relation between endo and plat, the bundles account for that in the bonus item granted. I value endo less than anything else, but that doesnt change what it costs on the market. And since we dont pay for either platinum or endo in the packs, it doesnt really matter.

It is like picking up a pre-order or not, the thing you actually pay for is the same both pre and post release, you just dont get the free bonus carrot dangling there up to release day.

edit: And another real life example. Say you buy a TV in january, in the offer it includes a 1 year sub of HBO and Netflix. Two months later the same TV at the same price has a new bonus tied to it, it now includes two different streaming services that would have the same monthly fee but by the majority of viewers are seen as far inferior to HBO and Netflix. It would all still retain the exact same value of the january offer but be significantly worse for anyone buying it according to the majority. Should the TV be cheaper based on the opinion regarding quality of the bonus provided?

[Perfectly_Framed_Waifu]

55 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It really isnt, I just look at the pure value of what is in the bundles and what we pay for those bundles.

2x Frames = 650

4x Weapons = 500

4x Accessories = 200

4x Glyphs = 80

1200x Platinum = 1200

= 1520p worth of items + 1200p = 2720p in items and currency

FTFY because you left out the important part that by your calculations makes up about half the bundle in pure value. That half is not offered by this new deal of DE's.

2 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

The set value is the same, the value in the eyes of the players is a different thing. There is a set relation between endo and plat, the bundles account for that in the bonus item granted. I value endo less than anything else, but that doesnt change what it costs on the market. And since we dont pay for either platinum or endo in the packs, it doesnt really matter.

It is like picking up a pre-order or not, the thing you actually pay for is the same both pre and post release, you just dont get the free bonus carrot dangling there up to release day.

Translation: "The set value is not the same, it's just that I conveniently ignore half of the product value-wise to artificially raise the value of the second part. Not to mention that Platinum is a currency with trading usage while Endo is an untradeable crafting/upgrading resource."

If a burger place removed the drink and side dish from the meal but kept the higher meal price, claiming that "oh, those things were just free and the meal price was actually the burger price", I imagine you'd be a tad ticked. Likewise, I imagine you wouldn't appreciate it if your boss switched your salary from money to coupons only usable within your company. That's the sort of business DE's doing here.

So yes,

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Obi Wan Dandobi said:

Either you are part of DE's PR company, trolling or deluded.

[HeatWalk]

Can you bring shawzin prime back? I would like to buy it with regal aya.

[Hokkis31]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

There is a set relation between endo and plat, the bundles account for that in the bonus item granted.

No, it doesn't You can get more endo by using platinum than what you are given. Perhaps not from the in-game store, but from the marketplace where other players buy and sell all sorts of stuff. Yes. All prices are controlled by the players, but the players also set the value of endo (or platinum, or mods or what have you). In general. All players value platinum way above endo. Perhaps DE doesn't, and that's fine. If DE want's to make the most money, which they do, they should incentivize players to spend money. There are multiple ways of doing that.

Let's go through the nice and tidy ones first. Sell cool stuff that makes you look cool. Sell a practical item (i.e. platinum). Do a charity event.

Now we go onto the less good. Create the problem, sell the solution. An example is to intentionally make a system unreasonably difficult and/or painstakingly gridy, and then sell a shortcut that fixes all problems. (rush construction, limit item-slots, then selling an increase, skip grind) and so on. And sometimes the developer will give all players a taste of "the paid life" if you will. Give all players 2 item-slots for free. They see how nice this is, thanks the developers and perhaps buys some more item-slots or whatever.

Now. Thus far, it's not been too bad. The latter ones can be horrible if done excessivly, but are okay within reason. But here we go to the scummy and predatory ways of making money. Activly deceive the playerbase. This can be by lying, create new systems with the intent of confusing players into spending, implying fairness when it isn't, activly hindering progress for free to play - players etc.

Now. I am by no means claiming that DE is doing all of this. They do all the good stuff that I listed. I believe you can see which of the less-good stuff they do. But now, in my opinion, they are doing some of the bad ways of making money as well. They are activly confusing players with the prices. They are implying something of equal value when it is not.

Yes. DE chooses the prices and value on everything they make. But if too few people buy it, then they obviously made a mistake somewhere. The lack og platinum is a turn-off for most players (excluding the newest, since they don't know). If DE wants to make money, then they need to keep players either happy, or confused enough to ask not questions. There are very few players who stay for extended periods of time. Warframe needs new supply all the time. Old players will return, and new players will join. But the oldies see the problems, and a lot of them don't pay. DE knows this, therefore they instead focus on the newer players. And the quickest and easiest way to make a new player spend money is to confuse them. This is the case every single time. In any game. Making them happy is secondary. DE is not your friend. They are your supplyer and developer of this great game. The PR team may act friendly, and I am certain they are fantastic people, but it is a business.

So let me ask you this. Why do you defend their decision? You have nothing to gain and get an objectivly worse deal. This is not an indie deveolper. They had a rough beginning, and their story is inspiring. But they are not short on money. Not to my knowledge, anyway. I truely hope Tencent (the real villan in this saga) let's loose a bit and let's DE do what they did best. Communicate and reciprocate. I love Warframe, and I love DE. However, I despise the direction they are going.

I'm very sorry for this long rant, it turned into a lot more than I intended, I got carried away. If any of you took offence, then I apologize. We are all entitled to our own opinion, and also have the right to discuss it with others. We are allowed to disagree. This is not me vs you, we are not in any way enemies

If you've read this far, than you are a champ. Thank you once again

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

20 pages on the forum is one thing, how many of those that are actually effected, simply want to scream an opinion or will buy anyways is a different story.

"The people disagreeing with this aren't real".

Yeah, OK buddy.

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

One could ask why you havent already picked up the unvaults earlier if the plat is your main concern?

Maybe because I only really want Hydroid's accessories? Who has never been unvaulted? I also wanted Nyx's set. Which I bought when it unvaulted with an accessories pack. And when I bought that bundle I got plat, just like I would certainly expect to get for Hydroid's if it's being sold for the same price.

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

So do you pre-order games any chance you get in order to get the full value aswell?

Uh, no? Like I said, I'm not that dumb or wasteful with my money. Giving a company your money for an unfinished product they pinky promise will actually come out one day is just as dumb as giving a company your money for less of a product than they were selling you before.

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Why did people not pick up the unvaluts earlier?

Maybe because the community had to badger DE for years for an accessories-only unvault pack? And a lot of stuff has never been unvaulted?

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It really isnt, I just look at the pure value of what is in the bundles and what we pay for those bundles.

2x Frames = 650

4x Weapons = 500

4x Accessories = 200

4x Glyphs = 80

= 1520p worth of items.

And that's with low costs used for frames and weapons when compared to what normals cost on the market. And cosmetics avaraged at 50 a pop since their counterparts range from 15-100+ plat on the market.

 

So you think it's fair to pay $59.99 for 1,520p worth of items?

Ok.

Well right now you can pay $59.99 for 2,720p worth of items and plat.

It'S ThE SaMe VaLuE.

inb4 "50k Endo is totally worth more than $60 in plat guys"

[Kingdom_key599]

On 2021-11-11 at 9:48 AM, VoreoTheDragon said:

Regal Aya needs its quantity/pricing reviewed.

Blatant cash grab is blatant.

i agree 100% seems kinda high

[Hokkis31]

If you have some spare time you could also watch this video. He gives a more verbal and nice explaination (and he swears, so be aware of that if you are sensitive to such things)

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Perfectly_Framed_Waifu said:

Translation: "The set value is not the same, it's just that I conveniently ignore half of the product value-wise to artificially raise the value of the second part. Not to mention that Platinum is a currency with trading usage while Endo is an untradeable crafting/upgrading resource."

It doesnt change what the set value is though, that is the point. DE have said "Endo is worth this much plat according to us", the uses that value in this case. Wether we like that or not is a different story, but no matter what we think that value is set by DE and has been so since the introduction of Endo as an item on the market.

And it isnt entirely correct that Endo is an untradable currency. It helps to push the price of Primed mods for instance by quite a bit.

[Tahoma]

At the very least, I advise everyone who has a problem with the Raya system to vote with your wallet by not purchasing any of it.

And although the free path changes seem universally positive, It seems DE is intent on losing the people that were already open to purchasing their unvaulting packs, such as myself.

[PublikDomain]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

DE have said "Endo is worth this much plat according to us", the uses that value in this case.

Well then surely they could give us the plat instead if you really think the value is the same. Then if someone wants to blow it all on Endo or Credits or resources from the market they can, and everyone else gets the same things they pay for now.

[Hokkis31]

5 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Wether we like that or not is a different story, but no matter what we think that value is set by DE

I mean, I guess. But we as consumers controll the market and can force a company to change the price. When the demand is low, the price must be reduced, if not, then they will lose a lot of money. So if we don't like it, we can force a change, but only if we work together. One vote is nothing. But a lot of singular votes become an unstoppable force.

[nahlbom]

 I have always supported this company for being one of the best free-to-play developers out there,

 i play this game with my kids and with my wife and i by platinum when i get a discount.

 Prime  unvaulting  where a good  way for me to buy the accessories and platinum at the reasonable price,

 that is how i support developers  to make the game i love and have played for years.

 I'm sad to say that what i see about this new system Regal Aya  is just another way to make you pay more and get less,

 please go watch Brozime's youtube video on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXqSkMwe_A8

 

 so my plea to you DE is please don't treat me like i'm stupid, this is just a slap to the face, at least that's how it feels.

 Just consider that your player base and fans just raced  over hundred thousand dollars to cure cancer in your name.

 you should be very proud and reward your players in every way.

Love from Sweden

 

 

[XAN3MK]

3 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

It doesnt change what the set value is though, that is the point. DE have said "Endo is worth this much plat according to us", the uses that value in this case. Wether we like that or not is a different story, but no matter what we think that value is set by DE and has been so since the introduction of Endo as an item on the market.

That is factually incorrect. It doesn't matter what DE values Endo, unless you are a fish or have a wind tunnel between your ears, you are not buying the endo packs from the Market. Something that nobody wants or nobody pays for has no value. This is without getting into the false equivalence that Endo is somehow a substitute for plat. It is not. Platinum has consistent, universal use. Endo does not (and becomes literally worthless depending on how far you are into the game).

DE could have saved themselves from this PR disaster by simply ditching the value of the platinum from the packs and adjusting the prices accordingly. Instead, they choose a false equivalence and to be dragged through the mud.

P.S. I think DE will be in for a rude awakening when they realize how many people were picking Prime Access/Vault packs because it had platinum in it and now won't be spending any $ when that value is taken away.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

They allow you to get Regular Aya from syndicate relic packs as well. We'll have to see how the drop rates are, but all this stuff is farmable without plat....

If a person is gonna just pull out the wallet without even making an attempt to farm.....you're paying for the convenience of being a "I want it now" person.

[(PSN)TONI__RIBEIRO]

 

don't get scammed out of your money, regal Aya isn't worth the price, buy only plat, vote with your wallets.

[Trizienghex]

2 hours ago, Hokkis31 said:

The platinum bonus is part of the value. Sure, let's say it's added on top of the original value. So the PA pack costs 20, and you get 10 worth of platinum. So the actual price is 30, but reduced to 20 because DE is generous, or whatnot.

However. This is not a physical store. It's not a bulk-buy price reduction. It's an item that does not exist. There is no tangible value in either platinum or cosmetics. Platinum has a use within the game, however. Cosmetics make you look cool, and that's all well and good, but that's it. If you have the money, then that might be good enough a reason to buy it. This is not the case for all people. Some people see the cosmetics as the bonus, and the platinum as the actual value. Other people are on the fence on buying it. If it were only cosmetics, they wouldn't, but with the platinum it's an easier decision, because you get added value. That is the reason for DE putting plat in there to begin with. To entice players to buy the pack. They know that there is a very strong appeal to added platinum. So the "bonus" platinum is just a farce, if you will. It's part of the pack, and ultimatly what decides most player's decision on whether to buy or not.

So to end off on a shorter note. No. A lot of people don't feel they are getting their money's worth without the platinum in those bundles.

Exactly. For me the only useful thing in all those bundles is cosmetics and platinum kinda compensated for stuff I already have or can get by simply playing game and thus justified the price for them. Plat has never been the main thing in bundles, it was just a nice addition to everything else in the bundle because buying plat itself has always been way cheaper even without discounts.

As someone who doesn't have tons of money to spend without thinking I can say for sure that without plat all those packs lose a lot of value and become a lot more questionable for purchase. Buying prime accessories alone feels too expensive to me and getting a dual pack (which is just a little higher in price than buying accessories from those packs alone) doesn't make any sense without plat. While having similar pricing, prime vault for example doesn't have the same problem specifically because of that little "bonus" plat

[SneakyErvin]

12 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Well then surely they could give us the plat instead if you really think the value is the same. Then if someone wants to blow it all on Endo or Credits or resources from the market they can, and everyone else gets the same things they pay for now.

You already do, since you cannot pay for what is considered a gift by those who hand it out. Or are you going to go to the point of saying that DE is lying straight up?

18 minutes ago, Hokkis31 said:

I mean, I guess. But we as consumers controll the market and can force a company to change the price. When the demand is low, the price must be reduced, if not, then they will lose a lot of money. So if we don't like it, we can force a change, but only if we work together. One vote is nothing. But a lot of singular votes become an unstoppable force.

You get it. And yes, if people dont like this change they should vote with their wallet. I will likely vote the other way with mine because I never had an interest in the bundles since 90% of them was obtained through gameplay anyways, but I do have interest in select cosmetic pieces.

18 minutes ago, XAN3MK said:

That is factually incorrect. It doesn't matter what DE values Endo, unless you are a fish or have a wind tunnel between your ears, you are not buying the endo packs from the Market. Something that nobody wants or nobody pays for has no value. This is without getting into the false equivalence that Endo is somehow a substitute for plat. It is not. Platinum has consistent, universal use. Endo does not (and becomes literally worthless depending on how far you are into the game).

DE could have saved themselves from this PR disaster by simply ditching the value of the platinum from the packs and adjusting the prices accordingly. Instead, they choose a false equivalence and to be dragged through the mud.

P.S. I think DE will be in for a rude awakening when they realize how many people were picking Prime Access/Vault packs because it had platinum in it and now won't be spending any $ when that value is taken away.

No not really. DE's value is the only value we can go by since it is the same across all platforms. They are also likely trying to work on something unified that will work across all platforms with the cross-play and cross-save features that are coming.

And I'm sure DE will also be surprised by the increased interest in vault accessories when people can pick them freely instead of being pinned into certain bundles.

 

[GuriAnon]

After reading a few of some other peoples comments, i feel the community as a whole can agree that regal aya is terribly priced. We may disagree in some other points regarding regal aya but the general consesus is the same. So i won't add to that. 

But I cannot stop feeling like the invisible hand of Tencent is making it's very first clear appearance. 
I remember DE removing the kubrow slot machine back in the day and over the years they always made some pretty consumer friendly actions. But this regal aya stuff is CLEARLY some mobile money making scheme. which... you know... is tencent expertise.
I just hope this won't escalate over the next few years.

[Hokkis31]

3 minutes ago, GuriAnon said:

I cannot stop feeling like the invisible hand of Tencent is making it's very first clear appearance. 

I think you are dead on, mate