The Sacrifice's Operator vs. Umbra mission is still one of the worst quests in an MMO, and it sets an abysmal precedent for anyone who finishes The War Within.

[Orrion_the_Kitsune]

I've played a lot of MMOs, including those like Star Citizen which are still pre-alpha, and as expected Warframe takes the cake for having one of the worst missions. Of WoW, Mortal Online, Wizardry Online, Star Trek Online, Maple Story, Secret World Legends, TERA, Star Wars: The Old Republic, and so on (because just listing the MMOs I have 100+ hours in is going to fill too much space) this has to be one of the worst quests I've ever suffered through. The story and cinematics are great, but the gameplay is mediocre at best... and the worst in an MMO at worst.

Let's start with one simple fact: nearly 30% of people who finish The War Within quit before finishing The Sacrifice. Don't believe me? Here's some proof.

The War Within

The Sacrifice

There's pretty much nothing between them that would explain this... except the final segment of The Sacrifice.

The entirety of the last part of the quest consists of 'be unavoidably one-shot, resurrect, destroy 10% of Umbra's shield, get one-shot through void mode and during a void dash a second time, resurrect, destroy 10% of Umbra's shield...' ad infinitum until the quest's finished. You can't fail the quest (and for good reason: DE KNOWS how bad it'd be for them if you could) and, of course, because of this Umbra gets ~20k shield to make it take a while because otherwise people with upgraded amps could skip the "gameplay", as if that's a bad thing in this instance.

Now, in most games, usually when you die it's on you or to something you could avoid. This quest doesn't abide by that and goes a step in the opposite direction by making you retain all progress if/when you die because it's pretty much inevitable that you'll get one-shot several hundred meters away during a void dash+mode by a skill that supposedly has a 25m range, and it does this in place of actual/good quest design. This is the most bothersome part: they do this, and be as lazy as possible, IN PLACE OF having to think up an interesting mission for the acquisition of the coolest frame in the game. They make it obtuse and consequence-free because they didn't have a better idea for a concept deserving of one.

Not to be an ass or anything, but they should rework the final mission of The Sacrifice, before developing new cinematic content. With how garbage this section is, I don't blame 30% of people who stuck with the game through The War Within to think 'Oh so this is where the pre-alpha gameplay starts' before dipping and moving on, because this sets an awful precedent for the otherwise-great gameplay sections that follow in future cinematic content.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

So your so-called "proof" is showing two achievements that don't reflect actual numbers. You even aware that for some players their achievements are bugged and not awarded properly?

[(PSN)xBlake360]

33 minutes ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

I've played a lot of MMOs, including those like Star Citizen which are still pre-alpha, and as expected Warframe takes the cake for having one of the worst missions. Of WoW, Mortal Online, Wizardry Online, Star Trek Online, Maple Story, Secret World Legends, TERA, Star Wars: The Old Republic, and so on (because just listing the MMOs I have 100+ hours in is going to fill too much space) this has to be one of the worst quests I've ever suffered through. The story and cinematics are great, but the gameplay is mediocre at best... and the worst in an MMO at worst.

Let's start with one simple fact: nearly 30% of people who finish The War Within quit before finishing The Sacrifice. Don't believe me? Here's some proof.

The War Within

The Sacrifice

There's pretty much nothing between them that would explain this... except the final segment of The Sacrifice.

The entirety of the last part of the quest consists of 'be unavoidably one-shot, resurrect, destroy 10% of Umbra's shield, get one-shot through void mode and during a void dash a second time, resurrect, destroy 10% of Umbra's shield...' ad infinitum until the quest's finished. You can't fail the quest (and for good reason: DE KNOWS how bad it'd be for them if you could) and, of course, because of this Umbra gets ~20k shield to make it take a while because otherwise people with upgraded amps could skip the "gameplay", as if that's a bad thing in this instance.

Now, in most games, usually when you die it's on you or to something you could avoid. This quest doesn't abide by that and goes a step in the opposite direction by making you retain all progress if/when you die because it's pretty much inevitable that you'll get one-shot several hundred meters away during a void dash+mode by a skill that supposedly has a 25m range, and it does this in place of actual/good quest design. This is the most bothersome part: they do this, and be as lazy as possible, IN PLACE OF having to think up an interesting mission for the acquisition of the coolest frame in the game. They make it obtuse and consequence-free because they didn't have a better idea for a concept deserving of one.

Not to be an ass or anything, but they should rework the final mission of The Sacrifice, before developing new cinematic content. With how garbage this section is, I don't blame 30% of people who stuck with the game through The War Within to think 'Oh so this is where the pre-alpha gameplay starts' before dipping and moving on, because this sets an awful precedent for the otherwise-great gameplay sections that follow in future cinematic content.

Well, the gameplay sucks, because DE was focused on Fortuna than one one of the most important quests in the game.
It's still doable though.

Considering how poorly written the New War was, I don't blame people for skipping Sacrifice or even quitting the game.
 

[Orrion_the_Kitsune]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

So your so-called "proof" is showing two achievements that don't reflect actual numbers. You even aware that for some players their achievements are bugged and not awarded properly?

This is such a silly response. There are nearly one-million people to draw data from, a handful of statistical anomalies are irrelevant with those numbers. They wouldn't be that different if I could draw from internal Warframe API data, I bet. Other sites give similar (if not worse) stats as well, lending them further credence.

[Orrion_the_Kitsune]

2 hours ago, (PSN)xBlake360 said:

Well, the gameplay sucks, because DE was focused on Fortuna than one one of the most important quests in the game.
It's still doable though.

Considering how poorly written the New War was, I don't blame people for skipping Sacrifice or even quitting the game.
 

Oh it's for sure doable, but it's a really bad look for future quests. That does make sense though since it was made at around the same time Fortuna was.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

22 minutes ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Other sites give similar (if not worse) stats as well, lending them further credence.

This is wrong as well, not every Warframe player is also signed up for TA. So you've also got skewed numbers there too. Aren't your original images of Steam achievements? TA is Xbox achievements, unless they do Steam too.

[Orrion_the_Kitsune]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

This is wrong as well, not every Warframe player is also signed up for TA. So you've also got skewed numbers there too. Aren't your original images of Steam achievements? TA is Xbox achievements, unless they do Steam too.

Yep, I'm using stats from different sites and different platforms even to support my point. You're pulling a "well, we don't know that the Earth is round..." right now, and it's pretty silly. Evidence points towards The Sacrifice driving a lot of people away, and no amount of devil's advocacy will change that.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

2 minutes ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Yep, I'm using stats from different sites and different platforms even to support my point. Being in denial about the reality of the situation won't convince anyone, my friend.

So you could and probably are presenting inaccurate stats to support a point? There is no denial about anything. Thread feels like you've taken an assumption you've made and are spinning it like it's something legit.

[Orrion_the_Kitsune]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

So you could and probably are presenting inaccurate stats to support a point? There is no denial about anything. Thread feels like you've taken an assumption you've made and are spinning it like it's something legit.

The stats are accurate as far as anyone knows, and you're the one claiming they aren't using some fantasy that the Steam achievement bug is so omnipresent that it meaningfully affects the stats taken from thousands of people, shared across non-Steam sites and sites that track stats for other platforms entirely. It's delusional anti-intellectualism on your part and it's not worth engaging with because you've provided no sources while I have.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

5 minutes ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

The stats are accurate as far as anyone knows, and you're the one claiming they aren't using some fantasy that the Steam achievement bug is so omnipresent that it meaningfully affects the stats taken from thousands of people. It's delusional.

I can throw some shade on your claim of "accurate" stats. On the TA app I've got open on my XB1, the percentage completion it claims for The Sacrifice quest achievement is sitting at 8%. However, the Xbox percentage of the same achievement is sitting at 2.67%. Now, if these stats are somehow supposed to be accurate, the Xbox stat should be higher than the TA stat, since the Xbox stat is for all Warframe players, as opposed to the TA stat, which is only for registered Xbox players.

[KitMeHarder]

1 hour ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

There's pretty much nothing between them that would explain this... except the final segment of The Sacrifice.

... Except the 19 months between the two, where people could have stopped playing for various reasons.

Not to mention, the Sacrifice has very little gameplay locked behind it compared to the War Within. If you don't care about the story, the Sacrifice only really has Umbral mods; Where as the WW unlocks focus 2.0, Sorties, personal quarters, liches, kuva fortress, etc...

1 hour ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

The entirety of the last part of the quest consists of 'be unavoidably one-shot, resurrect, destroy 10% of Umbra's shield, get one-shot through void mode and during a void dash a second time, resurrect, destroy 10% of Umbra's shield...' ad infinitum until the quest's finished.

What amp and arcanes are you using? And how much focus have you unlocked?

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Let's start with one simple fact: nearly 30% of people who finish The War Within quit before finishing The Sacrifice. Don't believe me? Here's some proof.

The War Within

The Sacrifice

9.3% - 7.2% = 2.1%

2.1% / 9.3% = 0.225 => 22.5%

So where is your 30%?

Sure, another site you mentioned it's ~27% (afair) so it could be considered "nearly 30%" (*wink*) but the first 2 links won't provide such proof.

 

59 minutes ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

This is wrong as well, not every Warframe player is also signed up for TA

Yeah. I'm on PC using standalone installer. Am I in some sort stats online? I know they have shown us data like frame/weapon usage per MR but do we have quest & other stuffs?

Do we even have % of user that use standalone installers?

[Uhkretor]

Spoiler

Spoiler

[motorfirebox]

2 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Let's start with one simple fact: nearly 30% of people who finish The War Within quit before finishing The Sacrifice. Don't believe me? Here's some proof.

The War Within

The Sacrifice

You're misinterpreting those statistics. Those statistics don't provide any information about who has quit and who's still playing. They merely show the difference between the number of players who have completed one quest and those who have completed a later quest.

[vanaukas]

uhhh, you aren't going to like new war then. Also, all cinematics quest can't be failed.

[Lutesque]

3 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Let's start with one simple fact: nearly 30% of people who finish The War Within quit before finishing The Sacrifice. Don't believe me? Here's some proof.

There's pretty much nothing between them that would explain this... except the final segment of The Sacrifice.

Embed 😭 !!!

3 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

because of this Umbra gets ~20k shield to make it take a while because otherwise people with upgraded amps could skip the "gameplay", as if that's a bad thing in this instance.

And then in the New War they go the exact opposite direction and force Weak Operators on Everyone....

I think that's what irritated me the most.... It's not just that My Experience with The Sacrifice Sucked because I didn't want to suffer the two most Toxic Game Modes in Warframe.... It's that after Suffering those Game Modes they then do a 180 and Disable all of that in The New War....

I get the impression I'm being punished without being told what I even did to deserve this...  😐

3 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

So your so-called "proof" is showing two achievements that don't reflect actual numbers. You even aware that for some players their achievements are bugged and not awarded properly?

Well.... Atleast he made an Attempt.... Do you have any Proof against OP's Proof ? 👀

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

So you could and probably are presenting inaccurate stats to support a point? There is no denial about anything. Thread feels like you've taken an assumption you've made and are spinning it like it's something legit.

Again... Atleast he's trying...

What are you doing ? Besides pointlessly Disagreeing Randomly ?

 

[(XBOX)Rez090]

7 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Again... Atleast he's trying...

What are you doing ? Besides pointlessly Disagreeing Randomly ?

Did you not see my post about some inaccurate statistics around the Xbox side?

[quxier]

41 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

uhhh, you aren't going to like new war then. Also, all cinematics quest can't be failed.

After reading some "cannot beat New war" threads it reminds me of sci-fi movie: Dr. Strange (massive spoiler!):

Spoiler

 

10 minutes ago, Lutesque said:

Again... Atleast he's trying...

It doesn't mean that OP cannot be wrong. To be honest does it even need to be said? OP posted some numbers (% to be precise) that show How many users finished given quest. It showed that "nearly" 30% players hasn't finished the Sacrifice. How they get ~30%? How do they know that those "nearly 30%" quit game? Unless I'm missing something it's so silly that below posts show it up:

1 hour ago, Uhkretor said:

  Reveal hidden contents

  Reveal hidden contents

 

[Uhkretor]

14 minutes ago, quxier said:

Unless I'm missing something it's so silly that below posts show it up

👍

[bad4youLT]

If you have your operator armor and health upgraded through Focus and Magus Arcanes you won't get one shoted .

And given that Sacrifice is pretty much end game story content , going into it unprepared is  equivalent to going into end game area with starting gear .

[TARINunit9]

5 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

There's pretty much nothing between them that would explain this... except the final segment of The Sacrifice.

The entirety of the last part of the quest consists of 'be unavoidably one-shot, resurrect, destroy 10% of Umbra's shield, get one-shot through void mode and during a void dash a second time, resurrect, destroy 10% of Umbra's shield...' ad infinitum until the quest's finished. You can't fail the quest (and for good reason: DE KNOWS how bad it'd be for them if you could) and, of course, because of this Umbra gets ~20k shield to make it take a while because otherwise people with upgraded amps could skip the "gameplay", as if that's a bad thing in this instance.

OK look, as somebody who did the exact same thing, I can recognize one crucial fact that you missed:

It was my own dumbass fault. Not DE's

After War Within you have access to focus trees and amps. The devs have given you a brand new system to play with and to level up. If you don't grind this system before the next story quest, that's YOUR fault. I was stubborn and didn't grind it out just to see what would happen; the result was a much harder and frustrating fight. But I also knew, full well, that this frustration was self-inflicted, and I could have made the fight easier at any time by just walking away from the quest for a few days to grind. This doesn't even have the issue in New War where you can't back out of it, because you CAN just pause The Sacrifice and go grind something else.

This is not bad quest design. This is PEBKAC pure and simple

[Quest]

6 hours ago, Orrion_the_Kitsune said:

Let's start with one simple fact: nearly 30% of people who finish The War Within quit before finishing The Sacrifice. Don't believe me? Here's some proof.

The War Within

The Sacrifice

Steam achievements are not a reliable measurement of progression as they can be easily hacked and forced locked/unlocked.

[Lutesque]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Did you not see my post about some inaccurate statistics around the Xbox side?

I saw you couldn't prove they were inaccurate....

If you're going to Demand Proof from Others have them have the decency to Atleast provide some yourself....

2 hours ago, quxier said:

It doesn't mean that OP cannot be wrong.

Well....

Then Prove OP wrong....

Personal website don't even think the Numbers are the point if this Topic....

I don't know how most people feel about the Sacrifice but I found it extremely Frustrating in the End.... 

1 hour ago, bad4youLT said:

If you have your operator armor and health upgraded through Focus and Magus Arcanes you won't get one shoted .

And given that Sacrifice is pretty much end game story content , going into it unprepared is  equivalent to going into end game area with starting gear .

Yet the game does nothing to clue you in on this.... 

In case you didn't notice... Focus isn't Properly integrated into the game... You have go out of your way to upgrade your Focus.... So Naturally alot of players simply never bothered because ESO and Eidolon Hunts are Toxic Cesspits of Frustration....

If quests are going to require these things... Then they should be locked behind them similar to The New War....

An Example would be Locking the Sacrifice behind 1500 Hydrolyst Captures and 50 rotation C ESO runs.... 

Then you can be Absolutely certain that anybody doing The Sacrifice isn't going to run into those Issues.... Obviously that's never going to happen because even DE knows they can't convince alot of people to put up with that type of content just for a quest....

Atleast The New War allows you to Skip Iso Vaults with those Stupid Damage Attenuation Mechs and Railjack and All its Bugs using Platinum.... Sadly the Sacrifice Offers no such Alternative....

And that wouldn't be a problem except...can somebody explain to me How Umbra can Damage me while I'm in the Void ? 🤔

Why are the game's rules suddenly different and not Explained anywhere ? Me thinks it's a bug that snuck in there and never got fixed....

 

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Lutesque said:

Well....

Then Prove OP wrong....

Personal website don't even think the Numbers are the point if this Topic....

I don't know how most people feel about the Sacrifice but I found it extremely Frustrating in the End.... 

I have done it already. At least for numbers.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

4 hours ago, Lutesque said:

I saw you couldn't prove they were inaccurate....

If you're going to Demand Proof from Others have them have the decency to Atleast provide some yourself....

Well....

Then Prove OP wrong....

In case you didn't notice... Focus isn't Properly integrated into the game... You have go out of your way to upgrade your Focus.... So Naturally alot of players simply never bothered because ESO and Eidolon Hunts are Toxic Cesspits of Frustration....

I literally showed the OP how stats across two sources can be wildly different and not make sense, i.e. inaccuracy at its finest. OP showed the exact same kind of information.

You might have to explain your other statement about how focus isn't "properly" integrated into the game when it very well is. You making the claim that "you have to go out of your way to upgrade Focus" is an oxymoron. The game gives you a focus lens to start your journey, slap that onto any rank 30 weapon/frame and you're good to go. ESO and Eidos are bonus areas for Focus. If you think that you only have to do those two areas to get focus, then that is the epitome of a "you" problem.