The Zariman NPC

[DreisterDino]

So watching the Stream regarding the Angels of the Zariman Content, they mentioned there will be an NPC where we start missions/interact with.

I have a wild guess on who that will be...

 

Dont click if you dont want Quest Spoilers:

Spoiler

Lotus, Natah, Margulis depending on Player choice in Quest.

Afterall, she has always been the one giving us missions / guiding us through missions

 

[Genitive]

It's going to be Mecha Teshin from another dimension.

[DreisterDino]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Genitive:

It's going to be Mecha Teshin from another dimension.

Sounds cool too^^

[Rozendeath]

33 минуты назад, DreisterDino сказал:

So watching the Stream regarding the Angels of the Zariman Content, they mentioned there will be an NPC where we start missions.

I have a wild guess on who that will be...

 

Dont click if you dont want Quest Spoilers:

  Скрыть контент

Lotus, Natah, Margulis depending on Player choice in Quest

 

Isn't she a Sapient though? This means, Void energy is harmful for her, and as with all other Sapients, she won't be able to stay in Zariman for too long, if at all.

[GrayArchon]

12 minutes ago, Rozendeath said:

Isn't she a Sapient though?

They're called Sentients, not Sapients

[Loza03]

18 minutes ago, Rozendeath said:

Isn't she a Sapient though? This means, Void energy is harmful for her, and as with all other Sapients, she won't be able to stay in Zariman for too long, if at all.

"Our ancients still wither at its touch, but have you forgotten Lua?"

 

By some (irritatingly unexplained) hook or by crook, Lotus is immune or at least more resistant to the decaying effects of the void. It's possible Erra is too (given that he was able to stand in close proximity to an active void portal), likely due to an infusion of what seems like Kuva in the various orbs on his body.

[Tesseract7777]

23 minutes ago, Rozendeath said:

Isn't she a sentient though? This means, Void energy is harmful for her, and as with all other sentients, she won't be able to stay in Zariman for too long, if at all.

Something something void magic something something. Lotus is special, she hasn't been "just a sentient" for some time now, and after absorbing Ballas power and leaving him a husk she is probably even more magically powerful or whatever. 

[(NSW)Captain]

4 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

By some (irritatingly unexplained) hook or by crook, Lotus is immune or at least more resistant to the decaying effects of the void. It's possible Erra is too (given that he was able to stand in close proximity to an active void portal), likely due to an infusion of what seems like Kuva in the various orbs on his body.

Hm? That's not true at all. Dumping her into the Void killed her. That's why Eidolotus was a thing. The portal being open isn't lethal, direct exposure is.

[Loza03]

16 minutes ago, (NSW)Captain said:

Hm? That's not true at all. Dumping her into the Void killed her. That's why Eidolotus was a thing. The portal being open isn't lethal, direct exposure is.

Point one, no, it's made pretty explicit that Ballas/Erra's mind control was what was killing her. This is why during Orphix Venom she sent us a message saying 'I AM DYING' if you decoded it. This is also clear from the fact that she's already largely decayed long before they dump her in the void.

Secondly, the Void Towers are protected from the influence of the Void, but Sentients still decay in there. They are weak enough to the void that being in proximity to it is enough to do them harm.

[(NSW)Captain]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

Point one, no, it's made pretty explicit that Ballas/Erra's mind control was what was killing her. This is why during Orphix Venom she sent us a message saying 'I AM DYING' if you decoded it. This is also clear from the fact that she's already largely decayed long before they dump her in the void.

Secondly, the Void Towers are protected from the influence of the Void, but Sentients still decay in there. They are weak enough to the void that being in proximity to it is enough to do them harm.

Iirc the mind control wasn't killing her, it was being forcibly plugged into Praghasa to turn make it work.

And I'm reasonably sure that's not quite how the Sentient void weakness works, they avoid the Void (heh) because they'd have to jump into it sans shielding or hijack Grineer/Corpus ships for the trip, which isn't their modus operandi.

[Loza03]

6 minutes ago, (NSW)Captain said:

Iirc the mind control wasn't killing her, it was being forcibly plugged into Praghasa to turn make it work.

Fair, but Potato Potato - it wasn't the void exposure.

6 minutes ago, (NSW)Captain said:

And I'm reasonably sure that's not quite how the Sentient void weakness works, they avoid the Void (heh) because they'd have to jump into it sans shielding or hijack Grineer/Corpus ships for the trip, which isn't their modus operandi.

No, Sentients are critically vulnerable to the void even beyond Wally's influence. This is seen all over the place, but them being hurt even in a shielded area can be seen in Octavia's anthem, where there are decaying sentients in a void tower, leeching off Suda to be able to stay alive long enough to fight the player.

[(NSW)Captain]

6 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Fair, but Potato Potato - it wasn't the void exposure.

I mean, it was killing her but it wasn't going to finish her off. If the Operator had gotten her clear she'd have recovered eventually. Getting dumped into the Void is what killed her.

 

7 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

No, Sentients are critically vulnerable to the void even beyond Wally's influence. This is seen all over the place, but them being hurt even in a shielded area can be seen in Octavia's anthem, where there are decaying sentients in a void tower, leeching off Suda to be able to stay alive long enough to fight the player.

Didn't they take a Void bath on the way to the tower?

I'm reasonably sure that if you took a Sentient to a tower inside your Orbiter (for whatever insane reason) they'd be fine inside the void shielded tower.

[Loza03]

11 minutes ago, (NSW)Captain said:

I mean, it was killing her but it wasn't going to finish her off. If the Operator had gotten her clear she'd have recovered eventually. Getting dumped into the Void is what killed her.

At this point it's just speculation, but given that she survived just fine underneath the reservoir for who knows how many years, I think she's fine with the void.

13 minutes ago, (NSW)Captain said:

Didn't they take a Void bath on the way to the tower?

I'm reasonably sure that if you took a Sentient to a tower inside your Orbiter (for whatever insane reason) they'd be fine inside the void shielded tower.

Unclear, but the terminology is 'Decaying' - present tense, implying that they're still actively dying from just the exposure inside the shielded tower.

[(NSW)Captain]

31 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

At this point it's just speculation, but given that she survived just fine underneath the reservoir for who knows how many years, I think she's fine with the void.

Unclear, but the terminology is 'Decaying' - present tense, implying that they're still actively dying from just the exposure inside the shielded tower.

Yah, the Reservoir and the Lotus's chamber both would have been void shielded; hence Erra surviving Lua.

I don't think that the Lotus has a special resistance to the Void, just that the damage the Void causes requires direct exposure. Once direct exposure happens though, it's like radiation poisoning and the effects persist even after you're out.

That's why Erra and Hunhow in War-sword form aren't murderized by their time in the towers/Lua.

[NeoRetro10K]

I think it is more likely to be Cephalon Melica.

[Loza03]

44 minutes ago, (NSW)Captain said:

Yah, the Reservoir and the Lotus's chamber both would have been void shielded; hence Erra surviving Lua.

I don't think that the Lotus has a special resistance to the Void, just that the damage the Void causes requires direct exposure. Once direct exposure happens though, it's like radiation poisoning and the effects persist even after you're out.

That's why Erra and Hunhow in War-sword form aren't murderized by their time in the towers/Lua.

Actually, quite the opposite - in stark contrast to the New War, during Apostasy Prologue the whole places is flooded with void energy, as can be seen by the void effects in the background.

 

Also, again - the Lotus literally calls out that 'Our ancients still wither at its touch, but have you forgotten Lua? You were saved but I? I was changed.'

She comments on how the Sentient 'Ancients' wither at its touch, and then draws attention to how she was in the void for years, unharmed.

[GrayArchon]

On 2022-03-11 at 12:55 PM, Loza03 said:

By some (irritatingly unexplained) hook or by crook, Lotus is immune or at least more resistant to the decaying effects of the void.

Your quote from the Ropalolyst fight doesn't indicate this, nor does her other dialogue from that mission. In fact, it more seems to indicate that the Lotus now has some rudimentary ability to interfere with the Operator's Void powers (which she then demonstrates by disabling the Operator's Void Dash). This may be seen as the evolution of Lotus re-discovering Orphix technology (which is later deployed against the Tenno), although that doesn't really line up with Lotus' mention of Lua.

On 2022-03-11 at 12:55 PM, Loza03 said:

It's possible Erra is too (given that he was able to stand in close proximity to an active void portal), likely due to an infusion of what seems like Kuva in the various orbs on his body.

There's no evidence that Void portals 'emit' Void energy simply by being open, and I also don't think Erra was infused with kuva. He had that appearance before the Sentients began harvesting kuva from the Unum's Tower (seen when he appears to the Ostron child at the start of The New War).

On 2022-03-11 at 1:41 PM, Loza03 said:

Secondly, the Void Towers are protected from the influence of the Void

Do you have an official source for this? I've seen this mentioned frequently over the years, but I'm not sure where it comes from. I can't find reference to it in Orokin Void mission dialogue or anything else. On the contrary, the Lotus mentions "Void interference" within an Orokin Tower during Operation: Gate Crash (and other Void Sabotage missions), indicating that Void energy does exist in some form within the Orokin Towers.

On 2022-03-11 at 1:46 PM, (NSW)Captain said:

they avoid the Void (heh) because they'd have to jump into it sans shielding or hijack Grineer/Corpus ships for the trip, which isn't their modus operandi

Being inside a ship won't save them. Sentient fighters encountered during Octavia's Anthem are actively decaying inside an Orokin Tower – and that's even while they're being "protected" by Suda's energy (whatever that means).

On 2022-03-11 at 2:05 PM, (NSW)Captain said:

If the Operator had gotten her clear she'd have recovered eventually.

Might be reasonable to assume but by no means confirmed.

On 2022-03-11 at 2:05 PM, (NSW)Captain said:

I'm reasonably sure that if you took a Sentient to a tower inside your Orbiter (for whatever insane reason) they'd be fine inside the void shielded tower.

The Sentients encountered during Octavia's Anthem are described (named) as "Decaying", not "Decayed" or "Damaged". It implies that the degradation is ongoing.

On 2022-03-11 at 2:19 PM, Loza03 said:

At this point it's just speculation, but given that she survived just fine underneath the reservoir for who knows how many years, I think she's fine with the void.

I'm not so sure that the Lotus' chamber is actually where the Lotus was located the whole entire time. I think it's reasonable to assume that she vacated it before throwing the Moon into the Void and only recently returned to it (after The Second Dream, when Lua is brought back). I see no evidence that the Lotus was able to survive the Void more than any other Sentient.

On 2022-03-11 at 2:57 PM, (NSW)Captain said:

Yah, the Reservoir and the Lotus's chamber both would have been void shielded; hence Erra surviving Lua.

I can't find any reference to this "Void shielding" or if such a thing is even possible. If you're talking about the Erra cinematic, Erra survives Lua because Lua wasn't in the Void at the time; it was still orbiting Earth.

On 2022-03-11 at 2:57 PM, (NSW)Captain said:

the damage the Void causes requires direct exposure

The Sentients are damaged even from using the Solar Rails a single time. We don't have a ton of information about the Solar Rails, but they probably don't involve "direct" exposure to the Void, seeing as people use the Rails inside ships all the time. If the Sentients could avoid Void exposure by simply being inside a ship, then using the Solar Rails wouldn't be a problem for them.

On 2022-03-11 at 11:58 AM, DreisterDino said:

they mentioned there will be an NPC where we start missions/interact with

As for the original question: the inventory descriptions for the Voidshell materials mention an artisan named Hombask. This might be the person. They also mentioned that Cephalon Melica will give you some instructions (optional objectives and such) during the missions).

[Loza03]

2 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

Your quote from the Ropalolyst fight doesn't indicate this, nor does her other dialogue from that mission. In fact, it more seems to indicate that the Lotus now has some rudimentary ability to interfere with the Operator's Void powers (which she then demonstrates by disabling the Operator's Void Dash). This may be seen as the evolution of Lotus re-discovering Orphix technology (which is later deployed against the Tenno), although that doesn't really line up with Lotus' mention of Lua.

True. However, Orphix can't be able to manipulate void powers, because then the Sentients would have been much, much more able to deal with the Tenno. We never see or hear of Orphix interfering with Void powers elsewhere (and there's no confirmed Orphix field on Jupiter to boot), so this must be an innate ability of the Lotus herself. but how could she learn to manipulate the void innately without some level of exposure? We have two examples (although one is dubious at best) of individuals with innate void manipulation abilities (the Tenno and Corrupted Vor) and both have needed to have been exposed to the void to acquire this ability. Every other example of void manipulation required external technology, which could have been removed from Lotus.

3 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

There's no evidence that Void portals 'emit' Void energy simply by being open, and I also don't think Erra was infused with kuva. He had that appearance before the Sentients began harvesting kuva from the Unum's Tower (seen when he appears to the Ostron child at the start of The New War).

Do you have an official source for this? I've seen this mentioned frequently over the years, but I'm not sure where it comes from. I can't find reference to it in Orokin Void mission dialogue or anything else. On the contrary, the Lotus mentions "Void interference" within an Orokin Tower during Operation: Gate Crash (and other Void Sabotage missions), indicating that Void energy does exist in some form within the Orokin Towers.

These two don't have direct evidence, but do have logic and reasoning behind them.

For the first, as the Avengers quite succinctly pointed out 'Doors open both ways'. It's been demonstrated in the Entrati lore that portals directly into the void (as opposed to the portals seen on Lua) causes some degree of mixing of the two realities, some kind of diffusion - as demonstrated by the vapors flowing in, as described by Albrecht. Logically, if from the void side real-space is diffusing in, void space must also be diffusing out into real-space (not to mention Wally shows up). Void Storms also demonstrate this - even before the region the battle takes place in is 'swallowed up' by the encroaching void tear, there's all sorts of Void Phenomena occuring in real-space. At the end, Wally even pays the real world a visit through a visibly identical portal. 

As for the other, that's simple - regular people can enter void towers or ships in transit in the void and not suffer void exposure. Therefore, there must be some level of sealing. If there is some degree of a 'leak', it must be in trace amounts. This can be seen several times, most notably that the crew does not suffer void exposure during transit or void storms, and Grineer and Corpus (as well as the neural sentry corrupted, that's a property of the towers, not the void, as confirmed by the Ghouls comic) walking around a void tower unscathed. In so many words, if the Zariman is what a spaceship looks like after prolonged, unchecked void exposure, then it's safe to say that the Orokin towers are shielded or sealed somehow.

13 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

I'm not so sure that the Lotus' chamber is actually where the Lotus was located the whole entire time. I think it's reasonable to assume that she vacated it before throwing the Moon into the Void and only recently returned to it (after The Second Dream, when Lua is brought back). I see no evidence that the Lotus was able to survive the Void more than any other Sentient.

Either way, there's a whole bunch of void energy swirling around the background of Apostasy's take on it either way. When she's down there during Apostasy, she's surrounded by void energy, and she seems fine.

In addition, we know that either proximity or trace amounts of void energy are so lethal to Sentients that it requires an external power source for fragments to survive being in a shielded void tower. How could an already-dying Lotus hope to survive being thrown directly into the void, or duviri, or whatever was on the other side of that void portal if she was still vulnerable to void energy? I doubt that, in the state the Lotus was in, she was any stronger than common conculyst.

And, of course, the Lotus does... something with what we can be reasonably certain is Wally. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest, especially given that a handshake gave the Tenno their powers, that directly interacting with Wally is tantamount to directly interacting with the void. So, Lotus should have died immediately upon coming into contact with some void old one just there, right? But she's still kicking.

[0bsi]

They did say that Teacher/Cephalon Melica will be giving optional objectives in the missions. But when they showed the 3 paintings in the extra area of the apartment, Reb said "new characters here, that you'll meet, perhaps"  - which I take to mean you will (or at least one of them)

The painting on the right seems to be Albrecht Entrati.  Since Euleria Entrati is mentioned in the classroom teachings, I wouldn't be surprised if she's the middle one.  I assume the painting on the left is Ballas?

 

So given Albrecht Entrati's connection with the void and the fact his painting is on the wall in the apartment, I imagine he's one of the NPCs we'll be meeting.  If they are going the way of the open worlds, then I assume we'll have several NPCs to interact with, even if it's just for trading/buying stuff from. 

[Corvid]

5 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Logically, if from the void side real-space is diffusing in, void space must also be diffusing out into real-space

Not necessarily. If there is a (for lack of a better term) "pressure difference" between realspace and voidspace when a path is opened, the only diffusion would be from the former into the latter, at least until equilibrium is achieved.

[Loza03]

2 hours ago, Corvid said:

Not necessarily. If there is a (for lack of a better term) "pressure difference" between realspace and voidspace when a path is opened, the only diffusion would be from the former into the latter, at least until equilibrium is achieved.

Fair point.

5 hours ago, 0bsi said:

Since Euleria Entrati is mentioned in the classroom teachings, I wouldn't be surprised if she's the middle one.

We've met Euleri, so that's not likely to happen. Don't believe me? Listen to her voice again, then go play some Deimos bounties. Familiar, right?

[0bsi]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

We've met Euleri, so that's not likely to happen. Don't believe me? Listen to her voice again, then go play some Deimos bounties. Familiar, right?

I know who she is.   But I was referring to the earlier version of her.

[DreisterDino]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb 0bsi:

They did say that Teacher/Cephalon Melica will be giving optional objectives in the missions. But when they showed the 3 paintings in the extra area of the apartment, Reb said "new characters here, that you'll meet, perhaps"  - which I take to mean you will (or at least one of them)

The painting on the right seems to be Albrecht Entrati.  Since Euleria Entrati is mentioned in the classroom teachings, I wouldn't be surprised if she's the middle one.  I assume the painting on the left is Ballas?

 

So given Albrecht Entrati's connection with the void and the fact his painting is on the wall in the apartment, I imagine he's one of the NPCs we'll be meeting.  If they are going the way of the open worlds, then I assume we'll have several NPCs to interact with, even if it's just for trading/buying stuff from. 

Good points, i think i had this thought regarding Lotus before Melica got mentioned.

 

The main reason i guessed we might see Lotus was the impact this would have on the players. For 9 years now, she is the character guiding us through most missions and Quests, but a few cutszenes in Quests put aside, we never really met her. Imagine that after all this time, suddenly you are actually standing in front of Lotus/Margulis/Natah in a Hub being able to interact with her. Just seeing and approaching her there might be a memorable moment for a lot of players. Like this long awaited encounter with one of the main characters of the game.

 

Spoiler

And besides that, we can customize the looks of Lotus/Margulis/Natah at the End of TNW but it really doesnt have as much of an impact on the small transmissions you get in missions, maybe this leads into actually seeing her "in person" at some point, and the Zariman would be a location where it makes sense.

 

Anyway, i just base my guesses on the game in general and not too much on what they have also shown on the Stream.

But i do like the lore-discussion you guys started here, didnt expect this 🙂

[Anandil2]

Look, i have high hopes for the update but i know it will be a cephalon