Detailed analysis of Hydroid

[Zabyr]

18 минут назад, Hypernaut1 сказал:

I'm really disappointed in losing the puddle. They did the same with Ember and turned a cool spontaneous combustion power into generic fireballs. They could've made world on fire work just like the new ult, without removing the flavor. They could've made the puddle work, even if they had to fold it into tidal wave. 

I'll miss the puddle. 

There are not just fireballs, but idiotic meteorites that ruin the aesthetics. And besides, the Liches of Kuva have “World on Fire”. My Sister Parvos has "Undertow", but now I won't have it...

We all share your disappointment

Edited October 15, 2023 by Zabyr

[sunderthefirmament]

25 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Like carrying a massive cast iron pot to the dinner table expecting a good meal only to find out all that is inside is water when you remove the lid.

Yeah.  I get the sentiment that Turritopsis_Dohrnii is going for.  Charge-to-cast abilities can feel cool and immersive.  But I would say Garuda's are done way better than Hydroid's.  Charge up Garuda's 4 and you'll send out a wide swath of blades, accompanied by increased slash procs and satisfying sound effects.  Charge up her 1, and you can clear an entire room.  Charge up Hydroid's current abilities, and all you get is limp and unreliable flopping.

 

13 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I'm really disappointed in losing the puddle. They did the same with Ember and turned a cool spontaneous combustion power into generic fireballs. They could've made world on fire work just like the new ult, without removing the flavor. They could've made the puddle work, even if they had to fold it into tidal wave. 

I'll miss the puddle. 

I partially sympathize.  It is sad when a frame loses something unique to be more homogenized.  But World on Fire looked and sounded really, really stupid.  Spurts of randomly appearing flames accompanied by explosion sounds that wouldn't have been out of place on an N64... is this really what you miss?  Yeah, the meteors are cheesy.  And yeah, the variable energy cost of Ember's new 2 is really stupid and unclear.  But she's still in a far better place than she was.

 

I think the puddle could have been turned into something quick and engaging, but I'm going to hold off on mourning its loss until I actually try the reworked Hydroid.  It was unique.  But it was also really, really terrible.

[Numerikuu]

I'll both miss and not miss Undertow. Miss it because of its uniqueness, not miss it because it did not match Warframe's core gameplay speed and style at all. There was too much wrong with it and too much that needed to be fixed and changed.
The damage ramp-up took too long. The energy cost was painful. It didn't vacuum, so your screen would end up cluttered with loot thus preventing you from being able to properly aim to drag things in with your tentacle grab. Last but not least, Surging from it would release all enemies (when it wasn't supposed to) meaning all that time spent ramping up tick damage from water pressure was wasted. Personally, after seeing what it has been replaced with? I won't be missing it. Same for his passive ability (which was imo one of the worst in game next to Frosty boi.)

I'm really looking forward to trying out his new 3/augment in the coming days, along with everything else.

P.S: I wished when we crouched we'd turn into the Undertow puddle instead, just as a little visual keepsake of the old ability :')

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, Numerikuu said:

Same for his passive ability (which was imo one of the worst in game next to Frosty boi.)

I hope Frost recieves some similar rework to his passive. Maybe just make the cold crit damage buff scale higher for Frost and any members attacking what Frost has debuffed.

[Lancars]

I find it insulting they bothered to make a hydroid workshop thing when they never planned to listen to people. Plunder is a stupid ability that is boring.

But DE has officially moved into the Ivory tower. They do not need us anymore they only need our wallets to please their shareholder overlords.

[CapinPotato9711]

out of curiosity, what weird and under cooked "arguments" have you lot seen on hydroids rework.

best one I remember is when someone said "undertow has no place in a high speed game like warframe", which prompted me to list every single warframe with stationary abilitys in the game I could think of.   the list was.... extensive.

 

anyone got any more we could have a laugh at:)

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, CapinPotato9711 said:

out of curiosity, what weird and under cooked "arguments" have you lot seen on hydroids rework.

best one I remember is when someone said "undertow has no place in a high speed game like warframe", which prompted me to list every single warframe with stationary abilitys in the game I could think of.   the list was.... extensive.

 

anyone got any more we could have a laugh at:)

its not that funny because the puddle is being removed., regardless of what we think. 

[CapinPotato9711]

7 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

its not that funny because the puddle is being removed., regardless of what we think. 

I know it isent funny undertow is being removed, I enjoy the ability, its increadibly versitile and has saved my hide countless times. itd be even better with the finisher rework comeing with abbys.   I just try to lean to humer when im irritated, I find it helps lessen sourness.

[(NSW)freedycurie]

I'm not really a Hydroid lover and I almost never play him, but I can understand people not liking the puddle to go away.

Tap/Hold mechanic exists for many abilities : Mag 2nd, Zephyr 1r (stationary and mobile modes, very close to Hydroid's Puddle (3rd) and his Wave (2nd), but in the air). The puddle and the wave could get merged as a second ability (tap/hold) and the new ability could be the new third.

I can't understand why they did not figured out this as the best otpion.

But, to be honest, this won't change anything to me, I won't play Hydroid anyway.

[Numerikuu]

16 hours ago, Lancars said:

I find it insulting they bothered to make a hydroid workshop thing when they never planned to listen to people. Plunder is a stupid ability that is boring.

While I didn't say my piece on the forums, I did say my piece over on Pablo's Twitter thread when he asked for our feedback. Personally I feel like he more than listened to the feedback provided, and did the best he could with the time constraints. Hydroid was lacking in survivability (sure, he has brief moments of invincibility, if you have the energy for it) and Undertow had many issues with it, despite its uniqueness. I feel Pablo recognised this and went with the best option which was to remove Undertow and replace it with not only a survivability skill, but also a damage buff as well. Couldn't have asked for more personally.

Also the added manoeuvrability for Tidal Surge? I could smooch you Pablo 🥰 really looking forward to trying out his rework tomorrow!

[PR1D3]

On 2023-10-15 at 7:10 AM, Hypernaut1 said:

 They did the same with Ember and turned a cool spontaneous combustion power into generic fireballs. They could've made world on fire work just like the new ult, without removing the flavor.

Temporary diversion. Although I like Ember more post Rework the meteorites falling from the sky is excessive and gaudy. So totally agree. They honestly could had made it do the same effect as it does now but have people just explode instead of freaking rocks falling from the sky. Spontaneous combustion is still cool. Ok I'm done. You guys can go back to Hydroid. Thank You. 

[Numerikuu]

Thank you, Pablo. His rework is amazing 💖 (and thanks to the audio team for touching up his ability sounds too! 🥰)

[Lancars]

On 2023-10-17 at 9:59 AM, Numerikuu said:

While I didn't say my piece on the forums, I did say my piece over on Pablo's Twitter thread when he asked for our feedback. Personally I feel like he more than listened to the feedback provided, and did the best he could with the time constraints. Hydroid was lacking in survivability (sure, he has brief moments of invincibility, if you have the energy for it) and Undertow had many issues with it, despite its uniqueness. I feel Pablo recognised this and went with the best option which was to remove Undertow and replace it with not only a survivability skill, but also a damage buff as well. Couldn't have asked for more personally.

Also the added manoeuvrability for Tidal Surge? I could smooch you Pablo 🥰 really looking forward to trying out his rework tomorrow!

Replaced it with a homogenized boring move. The problem is this sets an idea in his head that he can just simply replace abilities with something boring like plunder. I saw it. It's just a button you're gonna just press whenever and not even think about it. It's an omni style buff that will later down the line cause other changes like this to happen. I'm sorry but i never felt like undertow was a problem or slowed me down or kept me from doing higher stuff. I hate to be mean but it also sounds like pablo didn't know how to use undertow correctly and is reworking it.

[Hypernaut1]

2 hours ago, Lancars said:

Replaced it with a homogenized boring move. The problem is this sets an idea in his head that he can just simply replace abilities with something boring like plunder. I saw it. It's just a button you're gonna just press whenever and not even think about it. It's an omni style buff that will later down the line cause other changes like this to happen. I'm sorry but i never felt like undertow was a problem or slowed me down or kept me from doing higher stuff. I hate to be mean but it also sounds like pablo didn't know how to use undertow correctly and is reworking it.

I like the new move, but i really hope its not too late for him to consider folding Undertow into Tidal wave as a secondary function. 

I was instinctively trying to duck from damage today and was sad he didn't have his puddle. For me, it was a nice part of the gameplay rhythm while playing Hydroid. 

Oh well. I'll get used to it i guess. I dont think theres enough support for DE to waste time making any more changes. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Hypernaut1

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

4 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I was instinctively trying to duck from damage today and was sad he didn't have his puddle. For me, it was a nice part of the gameplay rhythm while playing Hydroid. 

I made it a habit to bullet jump with my speed and use momentum to body slam certain enemies with Undertow then jump/slam/roll/execute/Tidal Surge enemies right after.

I kept making this mistake the whole day today with the new ability. Really messed me up good.

[Lancars]

21 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I like the new move, but i really hope its not too late for him to consider folding Undertow into Tidal wave as a secondary function. 

I was instinctively trying to duck from damage today and was sad he didn't have his puddle. For me, it was a nice part of the gameplay rhythm while playing Hydroid. 

Oh well. I'll get used to it i guess. I dont think theres enough support for DE to waste time making any more changes. 

They could have made it his passive like the did to limbo making his dodge put him in the rift. Something.

Or they could have made him do the undertow if you held tidal surge.

[Aruquae]

2 hours ago, Lancars said:

They could have made it his passive like the did to limbo making his dodge put him in the rift. Something.

Or they could have made him do the undertow if you held tidal surge.

Passive? Sounds good
Sliding to turn into a puddle with increased speed, sliding out reverts it
Maybe a simple damage reduction