Warframes should start missions with full energy.

[Lutesque]

On 2022-07-11 at 9:14 AM, ANT. said:

Why do we need to start missions with less than full energy?

A Common Design Tactic.... 

Create an Artificial Problem and then Sell people the Solution: 👀

On 2022-07-11 at 9:14 AM, ANT. said:

there is no good reason why your orbiter/arsenal shouldn't recharge your energy for the next mission.

For us.... Sure.... There's no Reason.... For DE.... There's plenty of Reasons.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[cha0sWyrM]

spawning into a mission with anything other than full energy is ridiculous and nonsensical.

and i mean nonsensical in the strictest most literal way...it does not make any sense. its a really really stupid mechanic that serves no purpose but to be an annoyance.

there is no logical or lore based reason why frames can manage to be fully equipped and ready for a mission in every way except for energy. if you spawn into a mission and immediately use transference...the operator has full energy....so why not the frame?

there is no reason for it at all. its an oversight in code that de decided to patch by making us waste a mod slot instead of just correcting it.

[Leqesai]

2 minutes ago, cha0sWyrM said:

there is no reason for it at all.

I am certain there is a reason for it. Warframe didn't just pop into existence magically. The devs have reasons for all the things you might like/dislike.

[cha0sWyrM]

11 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

I am certain there is a reason for it. Warframe didn't just pop into existence magically. The devs have reasons for all the things you might like/dislike.

lol.....you have far more faith in des devs than i do.

id bet you cash money this was just an unintentional oversight they simply decided to not fix.

[Leqesai]

Just now, cha0sWyrM said:

lol.....you have far more faith in des devs than i do.

id bet you cash money this was just an unintentional oversight they simply decided to not fix.

It isn't a matter of faith. I am pretty vocal about my feelings towards design choices made by DE. But I am not going to pretend they don't have reasons for making things the way they are. You don't accidentally code a system that works like this. 

It's fine to want it changed but it most certainly wasn't an accident that energy works the way it does.

[(XBOX)Varzin]

I think it's worth considering on a frame by frame basis whether or not each warframe should have full energy at mission start. For example I think Sevagoth would really benefit from starting with full energy, his kit is very ability dependent and energy hungry. On the other hand I don't think Rhino needs to start at full.

[cha0sWyrM]

50 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

It isn't a matter of faith. I am pretty vocal about my feelings towards design choices made by DE. But I am not going to pretend they don't have reasons for making things the way they are. You don't accidentally code a system that works like this. 

It's fine to want it changed but it most certainly wasn't an accident that energy works the way it does.

you dont know it wasnt an accident anymore than i know it was.

hardly the point now is it?

the point is as stated....there is no logical or lore based reason for it. its not unfixable...as we can see from the preparation mod. its just a nuisance. there is no game related reason to keep this mechanic. we have a mod to fix it...we have focus abilities to fix it...we have gear items to fix it...if there needs to be this many workarounds for such a simple annoying thing...why keep that thing around?

what purpose does it serve?

[Leqesai]

1 minute ago, cha0sWyrM said:

you dont "know" it wasnt an accident anymore than i know it was.

hardly the point now is it?

the point is as stated....there is no logical or lore based reason for it. its not unfixable...as we can see from the preparation mod. its just a nuisance. there is no game related reason to keep this mechanic. we have a mod to fix it...we have focus abilities to fix it...we have gear items to fix it...if there needs to be this many workarounds for such a simple annoying thing...why keep that thing around?

what purpose does it serve?

Yeah, I do know it wasn't an accident. It isn't like a happy coincident that starting energy is dependent on mod capacity. The system was created intentionally. Like I said, something like starting energy being tied into another system isn't an accident. You may not like it for a myriad reasons but that doesn't prove your original claim that it is literally nonsensical. 

Just because you don't see logic in it doesn't mean there isn't logic to it. It is very unlikely that this will change so it may be better to temper your frustration a bit.

[-RG-Jezus]

1 hour ago, cha0sWyrM said:

lol.....you have far more faith in des devs than i do.

id bet you cash money this was just an unintentional oversight they simply decided to not fix.

No, the system was literally designed like this. It's how it's been for 8 years.

This topic comes up roughly every 2 years

The general concensus from the established playerbase, every time, is its un-needed, would skew the power balance even more in our favour (like we are basically gods already) and that starting with full energy is basically pointless unless your doing specific content for which there should be a cost involved.

16 minutes ago, cha0sWyrM said:

you dont "know" it wasnt an accident anymore than i know it was.

hardly the point now is it?

the point is as stated....there is no logical or lore based reason for it. its not unfixable...as we can see from the preparation mod. its just a nuisance. there is no game related reason to keep this mechanic. we have a mod to fix it...we have focus abilities to fix it...we have gear items to fix it...if there needs to be this many workarounds for such a simple annoying thing...why keep that thing around?

what purpose does it serve?

We know it wasn't an accident as its been openly discussed in dev streams.

I find logic and reason in it, so do alot of people in the community. Probably the majority. It is something you generate over time and an extremely important resource to manage.

Maybe it takes energy to gain control of your warframe, maybe the frame doesnt generate/store energy but the tenno does? It's really easy to find possible lore/logic if your not hyper-fixated on your own view/opinion.

The preparation mod makes it an opportunity/cost relationship and requires thought/build alterations/prior planning. I have never found it to be a nuisance. There is a game related mechanic, every point you don't spend gives you more energy (maybe because you don't need to spend as much to gain full control of the frame?)

We have mods, focus abilities and gear items to enable better energy management nor to 'fix it' because its not broken, never has been.

Don't look at an energy source as a fix for not starting with full energy because preparation is only useful for like 60 seconds unless you stack energy capacity.

The so called fixes are useful over the entire length of your mission and serve a valid in game purpose.

The purpose preparation currently serves is to make speedruns faster, save energy pads, and to start afk farms without having to accrue energy. 

 

 

[Skoomaseller]

I agree. That would also mean changing Harrow's passive. 

So what should Harrow's new passive be? Maybe... every fourth ability cast costs no energy?

[cha0sWyrM]

33 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

Yeah, I do know it wasn't an accident.

are you a dev at de...or have asked one about this issue?

if the answer is no...then you dont know anything. you assume it wasnt an accident.

and again....whether it was an accident or not is irrelevant.

[-RG-Jezus]

20 minutes ago, cha0sWyrM said:

are you a dev at de...or have asked one about this issue?

if the answer is no...then you dont know anything. you assume it wasnt an accident.

and again....whether it was an accident or not is irrelevant.

2014, as [DE] Rebecca states, it was discussed by the devs (they did not implement it for a reason).

Also, do your research properly before arguing with someone who actually has the correct information, your view is based on an incorrect assumption.

It being an accident/bug is an argument you pushed. Don't go back on it now saying it is irrelevant.

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

I have to admit, I don't really see the problem with it. If I'm running a power-hungry frame then I'm going to have some sort of energy recouperation mechanic set up for it, so that little boost of energy at the start wouldn't make much of a difference - If I can't get enough energy to run my frame then it's a bad build. If I'm not running a power hungry frame then I won't use that energy boost at the start.

I can think of only two of my frames that I regularly use where I want max energy at the start; Ivara and Harrow. Harrow's already sorted and I'm not looking to speed run anything on Ivara so spending 30 seconds to pop a zenurik bubble and wait for my doggo to give me some energy isn't going to make a big difference to the time I spend in the mission. Everything else is either just go, or pop a quick zenurik and go.

I just can't see the difference that a maximum of.. 400(ish?) energy extra at the start of a mission would make.

 

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

Yea you figure you are just dropping in from your landing craft at full health/shield  and ammo, why not energy?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

I agree. That would also mean changing Harrow's passive. 

So what should Harrow's new passive be? Maybe... every fourth ability cast costs no energy?

They just implemented harrow's passive....he is the energy warframe after all.

Do you think all frames should have Valkyrs Hard Landing passive and Novas fall down passive, or Wukongs passive? 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

49 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

If I can't get enough energy to run my frame then it's a bad build.

 

No, it means you're expected to bring a teammate or deal with the tiny sacrifice.

Like others said, it's designed that way.

Games will always and should always punish players for trying to solo everything. 

I'm saying that as a solo player. 

Many of us were punished for spamming energy pads by having to spend a lot of time farming the resources to spam those pads. 

Warframe let's you do whatever you want with very few exceptions.

If you want that tiny bonus, bring one other person to help or use forma to put preparation in.

They even let you circumvent that by letting you put Dispensary on any frame you want. 

 

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

No, it means you're expected to bring a teammate or deal with the tiny sacrifice

How about we don't cut out half of people's sentences to reply to a small section out of context?

If I am building to be energy hungry but recoup energy, and I am unable to recoup the energy then I have failed at what I intended. Ie, it's a bad build. Extra energy at the start wouldn't make a difference.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

19 minutes ago, RootyTootyAimAnShooty said:

How about we don't cut out half of people's sentences to reply to a small section out of context?

If I am building to be energy hungry but recoup energy, and I am unable to recoup the energy then I have failed at what I intended. Ie, it's a bad build. Extra energy at the start wouldn't make a difference.

The same thing still applies. Being able to spam abilities solo probably wasn't intended. You're definitely able to, but it doesn't mean you don't have to work for it.

[RootyTootyAimAnShooty]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The same thing still applies. Being able to spam abilities solo probably wasn't intended. You're definitely able to, but it doesn't mean you don't have to work for it.

And? Where did I say you couldn't or you didn't have to work for it?

[johnno23]

Warfame is general is not difficult but it is very easy to make mistakes and suffer. I use preparation on some frames but not on others. Many frames I immediately pop an energy pad before racing off to find the mission target etc. That I have options keeps the game interesting. All of the so called ideas to make it easier are just that...make it EASY. 

 

[Skoomaseller]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Do you think all frames should have Valkyrs Hard Landing passive and Novas fall down passive, or Wukongs passive? 

No.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

On 2022-07-11 at 3:14 AM, ANT. said:

You don't start missions with half health or shields. You don't start missions needing to reload your gun. Why do we need to start missions with less than full energy? Unless it's some grand conspiracy to sell more Forma, there is no good reason why your orbiter/arsenal shouldn't recharge your energy for the next mission. Make [Preparation] obsolete.

Just main Harrow

[quxier]

17 hours ago, -RG-Jezus said:

2014, as [DE] Rebecca states, it was discussed by the devs (they did not implement it for a reason).

I could find only 1 quote by {DE]Rebecca:

On 2014-11-05 at 4:35 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Seems like the main takeaway request here (barring the Art Feedback on Paris Prime which probably belongs in a separate thread). Will discuss with Dev!

She hasn't said that it was discussed.

14 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

18 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

I agree. That would also mean changing Harrow's passive. 

So what should Harrow's new passive be? Maybe... every fourth ability cast costs no energy?

They just implemented harrow's passive....he is the energy warframe after all.

Do you think all frames should have Valkyrs Hard Landing passive and Novas fall down passive, or Wukongs passive? 

Ok, but why Limbo don't have 100% energy on spawn? He is more energy frame than Harrow. Standing in the rift generates energy. Killing (not sure if it's for teammates) generate energy. There are probably few other frames that you can call "energy frames" but they don't start with 100% energy. I wonder why. Has Harrow just won the lottery?

14 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

No, it means you're expected to bring a teammate or deal with the tiny sacrifice.

Like others said, it's designed that way.

Games will always and should always punish players for trying to solo everything. 

Solo-only quests exist. Abilities that are detrimental for teammates exist. Abilities that are harder to use with teammates (e.g. afair Grendel cannot eat corpses) exist.

Game isn't "designed that way". Game just arbitrary tells you whenever you have to do something solo or with teammates.

And I wonder if any ability except maybe Protea's helps with Grendel's HUGE energy drain while doing Pulverize.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

I could find only 1 quote by {DE]Rebecca:

She hasn't said that it was discussed.

Ok, but why Limbo don't have 100% energy on spawn? He is more energy frame than Harrow. Standing in the rift generates energy. Killing (not sure if it's for teammates) generate energy. There are probably few other frames that you can call "energy frames" but they don't start with 100% energy. I wonder why. Has Harrow just won the lottery?

Solo-only quests exist. Abilities that are detrimental for teammates exist. Abilities that are harder to use with teammates (e.g. afair Grendel cannot eat corpses) exist.

Game isn't "designed that way". Game just arbitrary tells you whenever you have to do something solo or with teammates.

And I wonder if any ability except maybe Protea's helps with Grendel's HUGE energy drain while doing Pulverize.

"Entering leaves behind a small Rift portal lasting 5 seconds for allies to enter along.

Warframes regenerate 2 Energy per second while in the Rift.

Each enemy killed in the Rift by Limbo also grants him 10 Energy."

 

"Pressing the ability key again (default 3 ) or running out of energy stops the channeling, causing the thurible to generate an aura of incense around Harrow with a radius of 13 / 15 / 17 / 20 meters that lasts for 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 seconds. While active, each enemy killed by Harrow restores the charged amount of energy to Harrow and all allies inside his aura; if an enemy is killed by headshot, the amount of energy restored per player is multiplied by 4.

Energy per kill uses the following expression when accounting for Ability Strength and Ability Efficiency:
Energy Per Kill = 1 Energy + [Number of Energy Drained × 15% ÷ (2 - Ability Efficiency)] × Ability Strength

With a maxed  Intensify and maxed  Streamline, draining 25 energy will yield 1 + [25 × 15% ÷ (2 - 130%)] × 130% = 7.9643 energy per kill and ~7.9 × 4 = 31.8 energy per headshot kill."

 

You really wanna say Limbo is more of an energy frame than Harrow?

[quxier]

21 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

"Entering leaves behind a small Rift portal lasting 5 seconds for allies to enter along.

Warframes regenerate 2 Energy per second while in the Rift.

Each enemy killed in the Rift by Limbo also grants him 10 Energy."

 

"Pressing the ability key again (default 3 ) or running out of energy stops the channeling, causing the thurible to generate an aura of incense around Harrow with a radius of 13 / 15 / 17 / 20 meters that lasts for 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 seconds. While active, each enemy killed by Harrow restores the charged amount of energy to Harrow and all allies inside his aura; if an enemy is killed by headshot, the amount of energy restored per player is multiplied by 4.

Energy per kill uses the following expression when accounting for Ability Strength and Ability Efficiency:
Energy Per Kill = 1 Energy + [Number of Energy Drained × 15% ÷ (2 - Ability Efficiency)] × Ability Strength

With a maxed  Intensify and maxed  Streamline, draining 25 energy will yield 1 + [25 × 15% ÷ (2 - 130%)] × 130% = 7.9643 energy per kill and ~7.9 × 4 = 31.8 energy per headshot kill."

 

You really wanna say Limbo is more of an energy frame than Harrow?

It's more about how easy it's to gain energy than amount of energy.