Why are there only missions for AoE?

[kinoko_takenoko]

Exterminate, Survival, Defense, Infested Salvage, Sanctuary Onslaught: the most important mission is to kill a lot of enemies anyway, there is no reason not to use AoE.
Mobile Defense: This used to be a mission for CC, but now CC is unreliable, so it is reasonable to use AoE to kill Eximus with each large number of enemies that become obstacles.
Spy, Rescue, Defection, Reactor Sabotage, Hive: You don't have to kill the enemies, but the large number of enemies makes it safer to have AoE.
Capture, Excavation, Assassination, Disruption, Void Cascade, Void Flood: Only a few enemies need to be defeated, but there are a large number of cronies, so an AoE makes it safer.
Hijack: CC is usually fine, but you should have AoE because Eximus is scary and Sorties cannot use their abilities.
Interception: No matter how you play it, you will have to kill everyone in the end, so you should also prepare AoE.
Void Armageddon: You may want a way to kill fewer enemies to fight Void Angels, but at its core, you are fighting a large number of enemies, so use AoE to handle them.
Sealab Sabotage, Orokin Sabotage:Same as Mobile Defense and Assassination. AoE should be used against large numbers of enemies.
Assault:Same as Mobile Defense, Spy and Sabotage. AoE should be used for large numbers of enemies.

You want us to use non-AoE attacks instead of AoE attacks, where are the missions for non-AoE attacks?

[CosoMalvadoNG]

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

There's no time limit for exterminate. You can take your time.

Cc is still reliable. You have to actually use your guns and sword and move towards an enemy.

Nice try, but survival and ESO and infested salvage are your only real kinda points. 

The rest you're just reaching and seem desperate.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 2 minutos, (PSN)Madurai-Prime dijo:

There's no time limit for exterminate. You can take your time.

Cc is still reliable. You have to actually use your guns and sword and move towards an enemy.

Nice try, but survival and ESO and infested salvage are your only real kinda points. 

The rest you're just reaching and seem desperate.

I think hes doing a joke  dude. xD

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

I think hes doing a joke  dude. xD

Oh ok oops. I wouldn't put it past this community you never know lol.

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

There's no time limit for exterminate. You can take your time.

Cc is still reliable. You have to actually use your guns and sword and move towards an enemy.

Nice try, but survival and ESO and infested salvage are your only real kinda points. 

The rest you're just reaching and seem desperate.

There is a hidden time limit on exterminate, if you kill in it you fail the mission

[Pakaku]

You know what that means... the only remaining safe gamemode is Conclave

[gamingchair1121]

its called buff single target so we can use those just as effectively

[Uhkretor]

... Oh boy...

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 21 minutos, (PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson dijo:

There is a hidden time limit on exterminate, if you kill in it you fail the mission

That's not. What all the missions have is that if you are playing alone and you stay afk after 5 min the mission fails, i repeat that happens in all types of mission. I think that's what the joke is about

hace 20 minutos, Pakaku dijo:

You know what that means... the only remaining safe gamemode is Conclave

PS: But can i see people coming to start a discussion to say that AOE weapons are necessary even though the post is a fair mockery of the same ppl.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

4 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

That's not. What all the missions have is that if you are playing alone and you stay afk after 5 min the mission fails, i repeat that happens in all types of mission. I think that's what the joke is about

Guessing the AFK doesn't apply when the game is paused. One of the alerts two or three weeks ago, had one mission paused for hours so I would get the reward.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

Justo ahora, (XBOX)Rez090 dijo:

AFK doesn't apply when the game is paused.

[kinoko_takenoko]

Eidolon Hunting: The fight against Eidolon itself should be done non-AoE (!). However, it is also appropriate to have AoE weapons to counter Grineer.
Profit-Taker Orb: You will want to bring an AoE weapon as well, since the enemies will be swarming in large numbers.
Exploiter Orb: You will be fighting countless Coolant Raknoid, so you will want to bring AoE attack means as well.

14 hours ago, Pakaku said:

You know what that means... the only remaining safe gamemode is Conclave

Thanks for the real reply.
I don't know much about Conclave as I have little interest in PvP and matching seems difficult, however, it seems to me that quick targets such as Warframe are targets that should be captured with AoE attacks rather than guns that capture them at points.
Is AoE in Conclave considered weak enough and non-AoE a strong enough means of attack?

[quxier]

11 hours ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

Guessing the AFK doesn't apply when the game is paused. One of the alerts two or three weeks ago, had one mission paused for hours so I would get the reward.

Unless you are going in non-solo mode. Happens sometimes after tradings...

17 hours ago, kinoko_takenoko said:

You want us to use non-AoE attacks instead of AoE attacks, where are the missions for non-AoE attacks?

You need divide into:

1) mostly for AoE

2) AoE friendly but it can use other weapons

3) single target

You equating 1 & 2 doesn't seems right. You can finish Exterminate (with some exception) with just single target.

As for 3:

- Angels and Thrax units; with Angels my Kuva nukor is weak

- bosses (?)

 

[kinoko_takenoko]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

You need divide into:

1) mostly for AoE

2) AoE friendly but it can use other weapons

3) single target

You equating 1 & 2 doesn't seems right. You can finish Exterminate (with some exception) with just single target.

As for 3:

- Angels and Thrax units; with Angels my Kuva nukor is weak

- bosses (?)

Thanks for the real reply.
Sure, 1 and 2 are strictly separate.
But 2 is not a mission that actively encourages the use of non-AoE weapons.
DE says "we want you to use non-AoE weapons", but those missions are designed as missions for AoE.
Should players dare to use equipment that disadvantages them, as DE wants them to do?

3, Angels and Thrax units are enemies for non-AoE weapons, but the missions in which they appear are designed for AoE.
While it is recommended to bring supplemental non-AoE weapons in missions where Angels and Thrax units appear, the mission structure does not allow for reduced use of AoE weapons.
(Armageddon fights numerous enemies before Angels. Flood and Cascade are always filled with large numbers of enemies).

BOSSES are basically a large number of enemies in tow.
Jackal, Lephantis, Tyl Regor and Kela De Thaym do not have many enemies but Tyl Regor calls very fast enemies so I want to have AoE and Kela De Thaym wants IGNIS because of the gimmick.

Thanks.
Assassination in Jackal and Lephantis is indeed a mission for non-AoE weapons.
(Although I'm sure you will eventually bring AoE as well since you will be attacked by countless enemies along the way).

[quxier]

4 minutes ago, kinoko_takenoko said:

2 hours ago, quxier said:

 

Thanks for the real reply.
Sure, 1 and 2 are strictly separate.
But 2 is not a mission that actively encourages the use of non-AoE weapons.
DE says "we want you to use non-AoE weapons", but those missions are designed as missions for AoE.
Should players dare to use equipment that disadvantages them, as DE wants them to do?

That's why I usually bring kuva nukor and something else (depending on what I'm leveling or testing). You have at least 2 slots (Primary & secondary) so you can pick AoE and other type of guns.

8 minutes ago, kinoko_takenoko said:

3, Angels and Thrax units are enemies for non-AoE weapons, but the missions in which they appear are designed for AoE.

It depends what mission you start. Exterminate is just AoE friendly (2) while Armagedon need some more speed, hence AoE. There is always bounties where you can have "finish within 5 minutes" so that counts as AoE (1) too.

10 minutes ago, kinoko_takenoko said:

Flood  are always filled with large numbers of enemies).

Flood needs only maybe few Thrax units to be killed between full rotation (1-2 for me - solo). Weapons are not important in this mode.

11 minutes ago, kinoko_takenoko said:

(Although I'm sure you will eventually bring AoE as well since you will be attacked by countless enemies along the way).

The thing is have I kill those enemies or can I let them live? I can bring Xaku and just disarm enemies or mind control them.

[kinoko_takenoko]

16 minutes ago, quxier said:

Flood needs only maybe few Thrax units to be killed between full rotation (1-2 for me - solo). Weapons are not important in this mode.

16 minutes ago, quxier said:

The thing is have I kill those enemies or can I let them live? I can bring Xaku and just disarm enemies or mind control them.

You can choose not to kill the non-Thrax units in Flood or the enemies along the way in Assassination.
You can choose not to kill them, but it is more solid to kill them with AoE or be prepared to do so.
(So there is still a reason to bring AoE weapons into the mission: they are AoE friendly(2).)

[quxier]

3 minutes ago, kinoko_takenoko said:

You can choose not to kill the non-Thrax units in Flood or the enemies along the way in Assassination.
You can choose not to kill them, but it is more solid to kill them with AoE or be prepared to do so.
(So there is still a reason to bring AoE weapons into the mission: they are AoE friendly(2).)

Yeah, sure, Aoe friendly.

For flood I'm just using certain frame and get flying orbs. I rarely kill too much enemies.

[uumm]

12 hours ago, kinoko_takenoko said:

Eidolon Hunting: The fight against Eidolon itself should be done non-AoE (!). However, it is also appropriate to have AoE weapons to counter Grineer.
Profit-Taker Orb: You will want to bring an AoE weapon as well, since the enemies will be swarming in large numbers.
Exploiter Orb: You will be fighting countless Coolant Raknoid, so you will want to bring AoE attack means as well.

For eidolons, I've never needed to use an aoe weapon for the grineer, they're not close enough to the eido to be much of a problem.

 

For profit taker, an aoe weapon helps against the adds but not vs pt herself, so many of my favorite pt setups don't have a single aoe weapon. Or if they do have an aoe weapon it's exodia contagion, and it's not used for the aoe(which only has 1 unique element) it's used for damaging profit taker (on direct hit exodia contagion has upwards of 6 unique elements.)

https://youtu.be/lqw1MbEGoyI

For exploiter, the raknoids spawn in small groups, have massive heads, and die quickly once delivering the coolant, so a long range single target weapon is by far the best option for disposing of them quickly.

https://youtu.be/w00szn0v_1k

 

[kinoko_takenoko]

16 hours ago, uumm said:

For eidolons, I've never needed to use an aoe weapon for the grineer, they're not close enough to the eido to be much of a problem.

 

For profit taker, an aoe weapon helps against the adds but not vs pt herself, so many of my favorite pt setups don't have a single aoe weapon. Or if they do have an aoe weapon it's exodia contagion, and it's not used for the aoe(which only has 1 unique element) it's used for damaging profit taker (on direct hit exodia contagion has upwards of 6 unique elements.)

https://youtu.be/lqw1MbEGoyI

For exploiter, the raknoids spawn in small groups, have massive heads, and die quickly once delivering the coolant, so a long range single target weapon is by far the best option for disposing of them quickly.

https://youtu.be/w00szn0v_1k

 

If you have never had a problem with Grineer in Eidolon, then you are very lucky.
It is relatively common to see Grineer attacks in response to Eidolons appearing in the vicinity of Grineer bases.
It is not something you see every day, but it is appropriate to bring AoE weapons as a precaution. (AoE friendly)

The exodia contagion is very useful in the fight against the Profit-Taker Orb, but it is also AoE, and while it is not chosen solely because it is AoE, the fact that it is AoE may make it even more useful.
Also, if I don't have enough equipment slots to use it myself, I call in a crew. Crews as a means of using AoE weapons as a means of eliminating enemy groups.
If it were commonplace for everyone to handle exodia contagion as you do, it might not be necessary, but you seem to be exhibiting abilities that should not be generalized.
(I don't believe that the play required to produce WR is what is generally played, but does everyone who is not trying to WR play the same way you do?)

There is a demand for AoE as a means of attacking distant enemies in situations where it is difficult to aim accurately, as you demonstrated in your fight against the Exploiter Orb.
Of course, it is not impossible to complete a mission without AoE, but it is more advantageous to bring AoE.
Or you can use other means of AoE than weapons.

[Mag_Gaming]

On 2022-08-29 at 10:26 PM, kinoko_takenoko said:

Exterminate, Survival, Defense, Infested Salvage, Sanctuary Onslaught: the most important mission is to kill a lot of enemies anyway, there is no reason not to use AoE.
Mobile Defense: This used to be a mission for CC, but now CC is unreliable, so it is reasonable to use AoE to kill Eximus with each large number of enemies that become obstacles.
Spy, Rescue, Defection, Reactor Sabotage, Hive: You don't have to kill the enemies, but the large number of enemies makes it safer to have AoE.
Capture, Excavation, Assassination, Disruption, Void Cascade, Void Flood: Only a few enemies need to be defeated, but there are a large number of cronies, so an AoE makes it safer.
Hijack: CC is usually fine, but you should have AoE because Eximus is scary and Sorties cannot use their abilities.
Interception: No matter how you play it, you will have to kill everyone in the end, so you should also prepare AoE.
Void Armageddon: You may want a way to kill fewer enemies to fight Void Angels, but at its core, you are fighting a large number of enemies, so use AoE to handle them.
Sealab Sabotage, Orokin Sabotage:Same as Mobile Defense and Assassination. AoE should be used against large numbers of enemies.
Assault:Same as Mobile Defense, Spy and Sabotage. AoE should be used for large numbers of enemies.

You want us to use non-AoE attacks instead of AoE attacks, where are the missions for non-AoE attacks?

Wait... reading some comments here... so is this post a troll or not?

Either way...

[Venus-Venera]

Am 29.8.2022 um 22:26 schrieb kinoko_takenoko:

Exterminate, Survival, Defense, Infested Salvage, Sanctuary Onslaught: the most important mission is to kill a lot of enemies anyway, there is no reason not to use AoE.
Mobile Defense: This used to be a mission for CC, but now CC is unreliable, so it is reasonable to use AoE to kill Eximus with each large number of enemies that become obstacles.
Spy, Rescue, Defection, Reactor Sabotage, Hive: You don't have to kill the enemies, but the large number of enemies makes it safer to have AoE.
Capture, Excavation, Assassination, Disruption, Void Cascade, Void Flood: Only a few enemies need to be defeated, but there are a large number of cronies, so an AoE makes it safer.
Hijack: CC is usually fine, but you should have AoE because Eximus is scary and Sorties cannot use their abilities.
Interception: No matter how you play it, you will have to kill everyone in the end, so you should also prepare AoE.
Void Armageddon: You may want a way to kill fewer enemies to fight Void Angels, but at its core, you are fighting a large number of enemies, so use AoE to handle them.
Sealab Sabotage, Orokin Sabotage:Same as Mobile Defense and Assassination. AoE should be used against large numbers of enemies.
Assault:Same as Mobile Defense, Spy and Sabotage. AoE should be used for large numbers of enemies.

You want us to use non-AoE attacks instead of AoE attacks, where are the missions for non-AoE attacks?

very good summary.
and the devs really want to ruin ALL aoe weapons?
when will they start playing their own game..?

[uumm]

I feel this issue is intrinsically linked to the type of game Warframe is.

 

In cases like exterminate, the ideal setup kills as many enemies in as little time as possible, so you're never going to get away from the aoe there.

 

In cases like assassination, grand bosses, and capture, aoe is as useful as the extra enemies are threatening. In capture, the fastest method is a quick in and out, only paying attention to the target, but if the extra enemies are a threat (like in Profit-Taker,) then the best way to eliminate them is an aoe effect (in the case of pt, not letting the stronger enemies spawn helps, but doesn't clear out all threats.)

 

I feel that this isn't a problem until the actual best way to deal with more single target missions like capture and assassinate is an aoe weapon, they should be best with faster movement and more targeted damage.

 

[uumm]

I feel this issue is intrinsically linked to the type of game Warframe is.

 

In cases like exterminate, the ideal setup kills as many enemies in as little time as possible, so you're never going to get away from the aoe there.

 

In cases like assassination, grand bosses, and capture, aoe is as useful as the extra enemies are threatening. In capture, the fastest method is a quick in and out, only paying attention to the target, but if the extra enemies are a threat (like in Profit-Taker,) then the best way to eliminate them is an aoe effect (in the case of pt, not letting the stronger enemies spawn helps, but doesn't clear out all threats.)

 

I feel that this isn't a problem until one of two things is true: the actual best way to deal with more single target missions like capture and assassinate is an aoe weapon, or aoe is so powerful you can easily leave the game running without paying any attention. Capture/assasinate should be best with faster movement and more targeted damage, while there should be some restrictions on aoe that makes it more involved than finding the right corner to spam shoot. 

In both cases, the current aoe meta has issues.

 

[BR31]

I'd really like to have a boss rush gamemode on top of existing disruption and void cascade.

Maybe using an upcoming weekly archons as a base and adding something on top.

3 fortuna orb was never released. Eidolons and 2 spiders existed for 2 long, Ropalolyst doesn't has an incentive to farm him .