The New War just made me uninstall after 7 years playing (MR30)

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

On 2022-12-03 at 9:25 AM, ArxDurusMaximus said:

It sounded pretty awful, for someone who just wants to play and collect everything.

As much stuff as there is in the game, this is absolutely the worst kind of player you can be for warframe because it will eventually cause a burn out. 

[Silligoose]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Tanta Cinta said:

As much stuff as there is in the game, this is absolutely the worst kind of player you can be for warframe because it will eventually cause a burn out. 

When it comes to games, "burnout" is usually just a PR-friendly term that means bored.

Very few people actually experience burnout from games, as they simply can not dedicate enough time to feel the physical, emotional or mental stress and fatigue as experienced with actual burnout. When it comes to Warframe and players stopping due to repetitive farming, it is because they get bored as opposed to experiencing burnout.

OP clearly got bored.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Silligoose
Eased on the tone

[xcrimsonlegendx]

I know this is an old necro post but I always scratch my head when people say "this isn't warframe because ur not in a warframe!" when criticizing new content. You know how incredibly boring Warframe would be if that was all we had to do? Honestly I would have uninstalled this game years ago if the entire game was just bullet jumping to extraction as fast as possible and nothing else. The "not warframe" stuff is what has kept me playing for so long. If I get bored of "warframe" I can play something else that's different and keeps my interest. I can go fishing, I can build a dojo, I can crush enemies in a mech, I can fly a spaceship, I can run around as a human with a gun, I can play as a Grineer, there's a load of different playstyles that are all "warframe".

Edited July 11, 2023 by xcrimsonlegendx
correcting typo

[Thorham]

On 2023-06-26 at 7:31 PM, (PSN)Unstar said:

I think 99% of the legitimate complaints with The New War would be solved if they just made it so that people could quit The New War.

Or leave and return to the last checkpoint.

[Silligoose]

23 minutes ago, xcrimsonlegendx said:

I know this is an old necro post but I always scratch my head when people say "this isn't warframe because ur not in a warframe!" when criticizing new content. You know how incredibly boring Warframe would be if that was all we had to do? Honestly I would have uninstalled this game years ago if the entire game was just bullet jumping to extraction as fast as possible and nothing else. The "not warframe" stuff is what has kept me playing for so long. If I get bored of "warframe" I can play something else that's different and keeps my interest. I can go fishing, I can build a dojo, I can crush enemies in a mech, I can fly a spaceship, I can run around as a human with a gun, I can play as a Grineer, there's a load of different playstyles that are all "warframe".

Tekken is a pretty well-known fighting game franchise. If most people hear "Tekken 3" or "Tekken Tag Tournament", they think of the fighting mechanics where two characters face each other. When most people boot up Tekken, they do so for the core gameplay. Despite this, the Tekken franchise does like to dive into other game modes, like Tekken Ball, Tekken Force (beat 'em up style game mode) or even Tekken Bowling. If players get bored of "Tekken" in Tekken 3, they can play the other game modes, but those modes are just add-ons and do not represent the core gameplay. Even though the add-ons did bring about a little extra variety, they are rather shallow in comparison to the core gameplay mechanics and while the core gameplay is strong enough to carry the game, the add-ons are not: Without the add-ons, the game may lose some variety, but without the core gameplay, the game would fall flat.

Much as fighting with one character against another character is the core of Tekken, frame gameplay is the core gameplay of Warframe. When most people think "Warframe", they think of frame gameplay (and no, that doesn't just mean bullet jumping to the end). When most people log in, they log in for frame gameplay. RJ, Kahl, Drifter, Archwing, Frame Fighter, K-Drive... these are all add-ons. They add some variety, but they are rather shallow. They can't carry the game. Without them, Warframe loses some variety. Without frame gameplay, Warframe falls flat.

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

5 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Tekken is a pretty well-known fighting game franchise. If most people hear "Tekken 3" or "Tekken Tag Tournament", they think of the fighting mechanics where two characters face each other. When most people boot up Tekken, they do so for the core gameplay. Despite this, the Tekken franchise does like to dive into other game modes, like Tekken Ball, Tekken Force (beat 'em up style game mode) or even Tekken Bowling. If players get bored of "Tekken" in Tekken 3, they can play the other game modes, but those modes are just add-ons and do not represent the core gameplay. Even though the add-ons did bring about a little extra variety, they are rather shallow in comparison to the core gameplay mechanics and while the core gameplay is strong enough to carry the game, the add-ons are not: Without the add-ons, the game may lose some variety, but without the core gameplay, the game would fall flat.

Much as fighting with one character against another character is the core of Tekken, frame gameplay is the core gameplay of Warframe. When most people think "Warframe", they think of frame gameplay (and no, that doesn't just mean bullet jumping to the end). When most people log in, they log in for frame gameplay. RJ, Kahl, Drifter, Archwing, Frame Fighter, K-Drive... these are all add-ons. They add some variety, but they are rather shallow. They can't carry the game. Without them, Warframe loses some variety. Without frame gameplay, Warframe falls flat.

Well said. Thank you for your input. You are a gentleman and a scholar!

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

[xcrimsonlegendx]

13 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Tekken is a pretty well-known fighting game franchise. If most people hear "Tekken 3" or "Tekken Tag Tournament", they think of the fighting mechanics where two characters face each other. When most people boot up Tekken, they do so for the core gameplay. Despite this, the Tekken franchise does like to dive into other game modes, like Tekken Ball, Tekken Force (beat 'em up style game mode) or even Tekken Bowling. If players get bored of "Tekken" in Tekken 3, they can play the other game modes, but those modes are just add-ons and do not represent the core gameplay. Even though the add-ons did bring about a little extra variety, they are rather shallow in comparison to the core gameplay mechanics and while the core gameplay is strong enough to carry the game, the add-ons are not: Without the add-ons, the game may lose some variety, but without the core gameplay, the game would fall flat.

Much as fighting with one character against another character is the core of Tekken, frame gameplay is the core gameplay of Warframe. When most people think "Warframe", they think of frame gameplay (and no, that doesn't just mean bullet jumping to the end). When most people log in, they log in for frame gameplay. RJ, Kahl, Drifter, Archwing, Frame Fighter, K-Drive... these are all add-ons. They add some variety, but they are rather shallow. They can't carry the game. Without them, Warframe loses some variety. Without frame gameplay, Warframe falls flat.

Yeah I get where they're coming from in that regard, but the game is still 90% core warframe gameplay. They could do the next 20 updates and have random content and the game would still be composed primarily of warframe warframe. I just don't get why folks act as if adding some side content somehow invalidates the entire game, adding in Duviri doesn't remove that core gameplay, as you put it they're "add-ons" if you don't want to play this content, don't. The game has plenty of core warframe content offer. If you just want to collect everything, farm relics and buy the new stuff with plat if you're that opposed to stepping outside of your box.

[Zakalwe]

EDIT: never mind, I didn't like it can see my rant quoted below if you want.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Zakalwe

[rodrigerzZ]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Zakalwe:

I just got past the deacon section and I have to agree, this is just really bad.

The concept is great but why did they need to restrict it so badly? Why limit to such limp weapons and abilities, why not make the shooting sections different to the base WF but actually fun to engage with? The Drifter section is the worst, the pistol is one of the most unfun weapons I've ever used. It's not hard, it's just tiresome.

I get wanting to differrentiate it from the frames to show the power difference, but they could have done that AND given us some fun weapons/abilities to use. Engaging shooting would have gone a LONG way here.

The Deacon section was just horrible, too. FIguring out where to go wasn't a fun puzzle, it was just a total chore. This is one of the worst parts, it's like a 101 of what not to do when making a game like this.

Not being able to do this in sections as we please is the worst part.

An incredible misfire by DE, and makes me cautious of them ever trying to make a single player story driven game. I just don't think they understand what makes them fun.

For all my issues with WF, it's a fantastic game overall because it's such a joy to pilot the frames. This is the compelte antithesis of that, and no amount of narrative intent justifies it.

-

I'm near the end...

This entire thing feels designed to be drawn out, to waste as much time for you as possible and I don't understand why. So many sections of walking slowly, running through empty space, flying a baloon slowly, flying an archwing for ages... how they thought so many sections like this in a single campaign was a good idea is beyond me....

EDIT: arey ou kidding me? It bugged out and pushed me into the jupm gate before the last cutscene with Natah, and now I'm stuck in space on my Archwing unable to do anything.

I find this very important points. and the old topic is UNFORTUNATELY still up to date.
many have complained that such "content" is made absolutely lousy and actually has almost nothing to do with real warframe content!
if it were only cometics that didn't block the game, then hardly anyone would complain!!! but no........ they are putting out more of such TRASH updates.

THIS CAN'T BE SERIOUS!

[Zakalwe]

You know, I probably came in a little hot as I was tired and just wanted the thing to be over as I wasn't having fun, and ran into some into bugs that forced a save reload which pushed me over the edge into forum rant mode.

I think it's pretty badly done, don't get me wrong, just don't know how productive my post was.

The saddest part here is that the campaign had sooo much potential, and it just felt utterly wasted.

 

[Birdframe_Prime]

21 hours ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

I somewhat agree with your assessment BUT the New War was being promoted as if you WOULD be using your Warframe

Of course it was.

Every single one of the story quests in Warframe was advertised to conceal the actual nature of the content.

Until, and this is important, the actual gameplay previews and reveals where it was absolutely clear that we weren't just playing as Warframes because we got previews of Khal, Veso and Teshin.

We were warned. We did know. That quest wasn't going to be just about Warframes. It was a feature.

21 hours ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

It was NOT appropriate to put players in a position of sink or swim if you want to continue playing Warframe, that is the REAL Problem here.

That's why there is a disclaimer and you have to type in the agreement to start the quest. You are signing up to a Quest that prevents you accessing the rest of the game until completed.

I know that there are people that struggled, that people didn't enjoy it.

Not arguing with that.

I don't need to show sympathy for people with less skill, or who did not enjoy the content, because I didn't disparage or even mention those people in an oblique or implied fashion.

I'm not even discussing that at all.

What I'm arguing with is this:

Assuming that Warframe is only going to focus on Warframes, after eight whole years of the game not focusing on just Warframes, is an absolutely head-in-the-sand point of view.

It's sad. It's limited. It's purposefully blinding yourself to the reality of Warframe as a game.

It comes out with content islands or content archipelagos. It walks that line between grind that's just long enough to encourage people to buy frames and weapons with Plat without crossing into that being a must. 

And it comes out with both game content and mandatory progression quests that feature things that are not Warframes.

To sum it up, this:

OP quitting because they didn't enjoy the Quest would be a statement, and perfectly acceptable.

OP blaming their quitting the Quest featuring a Drifter, Khal, Veso, Teshin, boss fights that were geared for those characters, Archons (that were too powerful) and so on, is the sad part. The disappointing part.

OP didn't quit because of a bad quest.

OP straight up told us they quit because they wanted this to be about Warframes.

[(PSN)Unstar]

1 hour ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

That's why there is a disclaimer and you have to type in the agreement to start the quest. You are signing up to a Quest that prevents you accessing the rest of the game until completed.

I think we as a community need to stop using this "disclaimer" as an excuse.  Disclaimers are valuable when they provide users with sufficient information to make an informed decision about what they are agreeing to.  Let's read the disclaimer and see if this disclaimer adequately informs the user of what's to come:

Commit to THE NEW WAR?

THE NEW WAR requires several hours to complete. You will be able to pause the game, and your progress will be saved between missions.

Prepare wisely. Loadout access will be limited and regular Warframe activities will not be available until this quest is completed!

THE NEW WAR contains sequences of violence, frightening situations involving teens, and depictions of emotional abuse. It is intended for mature audiences.

Type NEWWAR to confirm.

There's some helpful information in the above; you're going to need a sufficient amount of time, you're going to need emotional resilience, and you won't be able to do normal game stuff until you've finished the quest.  There's also this tricky phrase:

Prepare wisely. Loadout access will be limited

A fresh paragraph with a topic sentence: "Prepare wisely."  The rest of the paragraph will presumably tell us how to prepare, so we read on.  Loadout access will be limited, and we won't be able to do other Warframe stuff.  Now, "Loadout access will be limited" could mean a variety of things.  Does it mean you won't be able to swap Loadouts (which is a specific thing in Warframe), or does it mean that you won't be able to change gear very often?  It's unclear.  But given that this paragraph is about how I'm supposed to prepare, my best guess is that I should get all of my gear leveled and modded and equipped before I start this quest, and that will mean I have "prepared wisely".

So, here's the question, and I hope you'll take the time to consider this and answer honestly: if a reasonable person reads the above disclaimer and feels like they're ready for everything it mentions...are they actually ready?

Hint:

Spoiler

Is there anything that in even the most remote way eludes to the fact that finishing the quest will require them to fight non-pushover healing bosses with a squishy human whose only offense is precisely-timed bow shots?  If not, I don't know how we could reasonably suggest that DE provided enough information to constitute informed consent.

Edited July 12, 2023 by (PSN)Unstar
phrasing

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

The main problem with the quest is that it is progression stopping (main game storyline is locked behind completion) and locks you in until it's done, and it's primarily not Warframe gameplay.

Listing other times in the game where it's not primarily Warframe gameplay doesn't make it any better, it just adds another worse entry to that list. (at least you could quit out of previous quests with non-warframe gameplay and take a break to return to try it again at a later time when you can manage to stomach it.)

Realize, that people who are unable to complete this quest may have spent hundreds to thousands of dollars on primes, cosmetics and platinum, and now they are locked out of all that stuff just because they can't complete a non-warframe gameplay segment that doesn't have any bearing on their skill in the rest of the game "Warframe". It's like this mini-game is a mastery rank test for a new game mode, that you only get to play in this mini-game, and you have to master it in the mini-game, and until you master the mini-game, you're locked out of the main game.

That's not good game design. Side content, mini-games, alternate ways to play, alternate modes, archwings, railjacks, necromechs, are all fine and good to add some variety to games for those who grow bored of the core game... but placing them as blockades in the main game storyline is infuriating.

The only people who don't have a problem with this game design were those who got through it without a problem, or like "challenge" from their games and are masochistic.

I do not believe the Devs wanted this quest to be a "challenge" that weeded out those who didn't have enough skill with a bow to kill bosses without warframe power... they probably play tested those bosses day and night leading up to it, and they got really good at it, and it got to the point where the balance of the battles "felt right" to them... who had practiced so much...

Personally, I'm a fairly seasoned video game player (playing since the Atari 2600, 40+yrs old) I got through the quest in about 8 hours. I was stuck on Boreal, because the clue to get inside its scream field to shoot it didn't make any sense to me, as I have been taught by my years of gaming, that when I see a dangerous AoE area around a boss, to just run and hide until it's gone... not run straight into what looks like certain doom is soon to arrive (there is no indication that going invisible would do anything whatsoever to an AoE boss attack, yet that's what the clue in Boreal's description was supposed to provide.) Amar was no trouble for me, and I killed Nira in my warframe. Before the bosses, the stealth segments were horrendous. Outside the Boreal issue, it was the stealth that gave me the most trouble. Radar should have had a 100% uptime. Cooldown on invisible should have been shorter. The goal path should have been a bit more clear (in my first successful attempt in Fortuna, I bypassed the inside tunnel entirely, not knowing you could duck in there during the short conversation with Little Duck. I was captured during the conversation, and it cancelled the story segment, not replaying when it re-started me. I was able to hear this when I re-played this quest for my roommate who refused to deal with it at all (he would not be past it without me, and he's spent hundreds on this game).

 

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

4 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Until, and this is important, the actual gameplay previews and reveals where it was absolutely clear that we weren't just playing as Warframes because we got previews of Khal, Veso and Teshin.

We were warned. We did know. That quest wasn't going to be just about Warframes. It was a feature.

That's why there is a disclaimer and you have to type in the agreement to start the quest. You are signing up to a Quest that prevents you accessing the rest of the game until completed.

I know that there are people that struggled, that people didn't enjoy it.

Not arguing with that.

I don't need to show sympathy for people with less skill, or who did not enjoy the content, because I didn't disparage or even mention those people in an oblique or implied fashion.

I'm not even discussing that at all.

What I'm arguing with is this:

Assuming that Warframe is only going to focus on Warframes, after eight whole years of the game not focusing on just Warframes, is an absolutely head-in-the-sand point of view.

It's sad. It's limited. It's purposefully blinding yourself to the reality of Warframe as a game.

It comes out with content islands or content archipelagos. It walks that line between grind that's just long enough to encourage people to buy frames and weapons with Plat without crossing into that being a must. 

And it comes out with both game content and mandatory progression quests that feature things that are not Warframes.

To sum it up, this:

OP quitting because they didn't enjoy the Quest would be a statement, and perfectly acceptable.

OP blaming their quitting the Quest featuring a Drifter, Khal, Veso, Teshin, boss fights that were geared for those characters, Archons (that were too powerful) and so on, is the sad part. The disappointing part.

OP didn't quit because of a bad quest.

OP straight up told us they quit because they wanted this to be about Warframes.

At what point of calling someone a "complainer" and silly isn't disparaging? According to your post, EVERYONE watched a preview of the gameplay and was aware of the uniqueness of using a non-standard Warframe for nearly the ENTIRE quest?  I am sorry, but even after watching the entire Dev Stream, I felt swindled and misguided as we were told to "Prepare your WARFRAMES for the Quest" and literally used my Warframe for all of 5 minutes over the span of HOURS.  Go fly a kite if you think that I or anyone else "purposefully blinded" ourselves to the reality of Warframe as a game.   I am sure that most players were NOT anticipating the novelty of using a Non Warframe Character for the majority of the New War Quest.  We were required to have a RJ and Nec so from that alone, I would think it is implied they would be of significance to the Quest, yet both were used a combined total of 5 minutes over the span of hours of gameplay.   You do NOT get to casually dismiss the bad New War Quest implementation and mandatory progression lock behind some generic WARNING Statement and an assumption that ALL players watched a Preview of the gameplay and were completely aware of the challenges of the New War Quest. 

How dare a Warframe Player want a quest to be about using a WARFRAME! 

I don't have a problem with the concept of something new and different in a quest.  I have a problem with progression locking the entire game  behind a quest that was more than a novelty game design choice.   Even Now with Duviri upon us, we are NOT forced to use a powerless Drifter to defeat an Archon with the only weapon allowed  being a single shot bow, so why would it be unreasonable to have players NOT enjoy such circumstances being forced upon them? 

I would believe you more if you just said "Git Gud" and left it at that.

Clearly this is an issue that has been swept under the rug if the topic is still being discussed.  I only post because the New War Quest was NOT enjoyable for me as it was a laborious chore and lost it's "charm" after many failed attempts.  I have some compassion for the OP, because I was the OP at some point, but I was able to complete the New War Quest eventually, but am still in the camp that does not think it is beneficial to LOCK-OUT ANY players forever if not able to complete it for whatever reason.  It's just bad business to not allow players to continue to spend their money, full stop!  It's that simple. No Lock = Mo' Money

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

[Birdframe_Prime]

18 hours ago, (XBOX)sinamanthediva said:

How dare a Warframe Player want a quest to be about using a WARFRAME!

There are a total of 2 Quests in the game that do not contain any Warframe gameplay at all. And I'm counting The New War in that, despite there being sections of Warframe gameplay after a set point.

The earliest quest that contains non-Warframe content is The Archwing, from 2014, and every single quest up until The New War and The Duviri Paradox contain large portions of playing as Warframes. But, as a key, at least five of the Mainline, required, content blocking quests involve things that are not Warframes. Whether that's The War Within in 2016, Chains of Harrow in 2017, The Sacrifice in 2018, or Angels of the Zariman in 2022 (which introduced sections that require non-Warframe use in the core gameplay, mechanically).

Every single one of those contains non-Warframe gameplay, is a content blocker, and has (apart from The War Within) no warning about it doing so. And, more to the point, every single one of them, some for only months, and some for whole years, had things that players could not get past while others sailed through intuitively.

This isn't new. This isn't some magically appearing phenomenon that only existed since The New War.

'How dare a Warframe Player not have realised that there's non-Warframe gameplay in this game about space children and their parent issues'?

I have compassion for OP's status of being unable to tackle the game. That is unfortunate.

I have no compassion for OP's argument when they blame their quitting on wanting to only play as Warframes.

That's just a blatant misunderstanding of what Warframe is.

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

2 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

I have no compassion for OP's argument when they blame their quitting on wanting to only play as Warframes.

I understand your perspective and have no problem with having Quests with different types of mechanics, but what I do NOT agree with, is the Lock Out of any and all areas outside of the Quest until it's completed.  It's bad business to lose customers period. You can rattle off all the previous Quests you want, but there has been no quest that contained Drifter Mechanics and forced usage of a bow to battle 3 self-healing bosses consecutively.  I am glad to hear you are compassionate about the OP's not being able to complete the New War Quest.  I don't think it's unreasonable for him to assume or expect a quest that was marketed as "prepare your WARFRAMES," to have more gameplay featuring a Warframe.   DE should not create Quests without a Quit/Cancel option to prevent any loss of potential revenue from their customers! If they can't do it from a coding stand point, then don't do it. 

I don't think it's a blatant misunderstanding of anyone playing the game called Warframe, to expect to play Warframe with a Warframe.  Before Duviri there was never a time that you didn't play as a Warframe the majority of the time in any mission. Even in RJ, you are still using your Warframe, Archwing is still a Warframe but with wings, Duviri includes Warframe usage too.  I don't have any issue with DE wanting to branch out and create new mechanics, gameplay, environments/worlds and I hope they continue to expand the game.  I just think it's a bad business choice to put players in a position of learning new mechanics and fighting 3 significant bosses to completion or never play the game of Warframe ever again.  What business limits their potential profitability? 

I apologize for thinking you are lacking in compassion for other players misery.  I can agree that it would be silly to quit Warframe just because a quest didn't contain Warframe only usage.  I would guess that the statement from the OP is more out of frustration with the Quest then actually demanding any and all quests be only Warframe usage but that is pure conjecture on my part.   I hope the OP can overcome his adversity with the quest so they can continue to enjoy all the variety and gameplay options available!

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

[Foeglas]

On 2023-07-11 at 6:51 PM, Thorham said:

Or leave and return to the last checkpoint.

As a returning player, I enjoyed learning the boss mechanics and stealth routes and found the slower pace of combat refreshing. I hated restarting halfway through after one mistake like a roguelike or old-school arcade game. The boss encounters felt like I was fighting my own fatigue more than the bosses themselves. The spies felt like a test of memorization or note-taking that tore itself up in contempt if I forgot step 7 of 10. The constant resets seemed to punish actually trying to learn on my own bit by bit rather than nabbing the whole answer key from YouTube. And it felt odd to play so optimally in a gamemode that seemed to invest so heavily in the story and atmosphere. As if the game was trying to sell me "The New War" with one hand while poking me in the eye with "The New Player" in the other.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Foeglas

[SaidTheRogue]

8 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

That's just a blatant misunderstanding of what Warframe is.

...except your statement is rather ignorant. people are allowed to like or dislike whatever they want. warframe like any online game has a certain theme, certain thematic elements but its not either guaranteed or required that someone likes 100% of it.

 

you must be fun at parties.

 

meanwhile, us normal human beings will enjoy the game as we see fit, since games are mainly for fun =D and to be honest, i would like to see their storylines have a little less jerry springer to them. the cliche super tacky family/relationship stuff is like something from a bad romcom. i thought this was like, outer space and stuff yo?! meanwhile these seemingly celestial-powered possibly immortal entities (such as ballas) are instead mired in their own petty goings-on, forever staying worked up over he-said she-said type stuff?

 

i mean yeah man, one could see how MOST players would place the greatest value in the gun wielding sword swinging space-ninja part of it all, ya know?

[Grommile]

13 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Every single one of those contains non-Warframe gameplay, is a content blocker, and has (apart from The War Within) no warning about it doing so.

TWW's lockout section consists of a warframe mission, an Operator tutorial, and a set-piece boss fight.

TNW's lockout section consists of three short side-character missions (one of which is apparently prone to jankiness), a warframe mission, a regular mission introducing a new, weak character, a stealth mission full of invulnerable enemies who one-shot you with a bizarrely overtuned first segment, another regular mission with the weak character, two fancy boss fights with the weak character, a fancy boss fight with your warframe, a lacklustre Necramech sequence, a lacklustre Railjack sequence, and another fancy boss fight.

(I may have missed something or got the sequencing wrong, but either way. The performance bar is significantly higher and the lockout is a lot longer. I have no idea how good most of the cutscenes are because I started skipping them because I was fed up to the back teeth of the quest, and if they ever pull this kind of shenanigans again I will be ignoring the quest it's attached to.)

[Silligoose]

On 2023-07-12 at 1:39 AM, xcrimsonlegendx said:

Yeah I get where they're coming from in that regard, but the game is still 90% core warframe gameplay. They could do the next 20 updates and have random content and the game would still be composed primarily of warframe warframe. I just don't get why folks act as if adding some side content somehow invalidates the entire game, adding in Duviri doesn't remove that core gameplay, as you put it they're "add-ons" if you don't want to play this content, don't. The game has plenty of core warframe content offer. If you just want to collect everything, farm relics and buy the new stuff with plat if you're that opposed to stepping outside of your box.

There are a few reasons (I'll cover some of the bigger ones only) for the dislike of add-ons in Warframe, but I'll distinguish between TNW specifically and the others in addressing this:

To bring it back to the Tekken analogy, imagine the Tekken devs saying: "Here's a new Tekken main storyline quest update we've been working on for a few years. It took a lot of effort and it is going to be great (hype train)! In this, you have to complete hours upon hours of Tekken Force and Tekken Ball to complete it. Yes, it will be more challenging than the most challenging content for core Tekken and we will lock you into these add-ons for no real reason, so you will not be able to access core Tekken gameplay until you've completed this add-on.". It is actually so ridiculous I started laughing as I typed that out, but there is no exaggeration when I say that is what DE did with TNW: The add-on gameplay was a main quest storyline, and in that sense, has to be completed if players want to continue experiencing the story or progress in the game. It becomes "forced content" (contextually, as forced as content in a video game can be, for the 2-IQ posters out there). Add to that, that this forced add-on content has a difficulty exceeding the so-called "hard mode" of the core gameplay and people are understandably not very happy with the offering. I'm actually a player that campaigns for hard content for Warframe, but my goodness forced add-on content like tnW is not where you do it in this game.

Regarding the other add-ons and why players have a problem with it... back to Tekken we go again: Actual Tekken, the core gameplay, is well-rounded and fairly well balanced from low-level into the higher levels of challenge or "lategame" (for that genre). It caters to the wide spectrum of players who enjoy various levels of challenge. As such, the Tekken devs can work on add-ons without much pushback, because the core gameplay is in a good state across the various stages of play that keeps players engaged. If Tekken 3's core gameplay had serious imbalances, especially at higher levels of play eg continuous jab spams was the META, most players would obviously not be happy that the devs elected to ignore the rather big issues with the core gameplay and instead worked on Tekken Force and Tekken Ball. They'd want balance to be established in the core gameplay, the part that they enjoy most about that game. The part that lured them in. This is where we have to look at Warframe, because Warframe's core is not nearly as balanced as Tekken's: While the core Warframe gameplay is fairly decently balanced at early- and midgame (there are issues there as well), it has massive imbalances towards lategame and instead of the devs addressing that properly and giving it the attention it deserves so players may stay engaged with the core gameplay, devs work on add-ons. Of course players aren't going to be happy with that. Especially when it is obvious they aren't putting much effort into content for actual Warframe, all so they can spend more time on add-ons.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

Another thing about the "Limited arsenal" restriction in this quest, is that it removed the Great Equalizer of Warframe that allows a wide variety of differently skilled players to enjoy the game casually: Modding and various warframes that fit different play styles, as well as a great variety of weapons.

People may find a comfortable frame and selection of weapons that fit how they like to play, and that suits them just fine for everyday gameplay to accomplish all the tasks that the game throws at them in the core game. Some Warframes and weapons may be chosen to account for the players' weaknesses in certain areas... maybe they gravitate toward melee weapons because they've never been fans of shooter games, or they play with a controller, so aiming isn't as easy to quickly acquire targets and shoot as the Keyboard/Mouse style (keyboard/mouse controls may make movement, on the other hand, awkward and clumsy for them.)

Now, a person who found their comfort zone, their casual, loving Warframe setup, gets thrown into a quest without their warframe, without their weapons, without their modding, and are forced to use a Bow or a handgun... when they really only like to melee... this is like throwing them into an entirely new game as a fresh player, no gear, nothing they've really done before or practiced, and forcing them to kill bosses (among other things.)

It's not fun or good. (this is also a downfall of the entire random gear selection of Duviri, and why I haven't really touched that content more than I have to.)

[Turritopsis_Dohrnii]

On 2023-07-12 at 5:03 AM, Zakalwe said:

The saddest part here is that the campaign had sooo much potential, and it just felt utterly wasted.

I completely agree with this point. I expected an engulfing war that involved everyone and even disrupting the gameplay of new players and veterans alike to stop the Sentients. 

It’s a bitter thing to have really and I wish they called it something else entirely.

[(XBOX)Shodian]

4 hours ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

Now, a person who found their comfort zone, their casual, loving Warframe setup, gets thrown into a quest without their warframe, without their weapons, without their modding, and are forced to use a Bow or a handgun... when they really only like to melee... this is like throwing them into an entirely new game as a fresh player, no gear, nothing they've really done before or practiced, and forcing them to kill bosses (among other things.)

Many games do this though. A lot of the newest Resident Evil games make you take control of a different character for a while. Is that also bad design?

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

39 minutes ago, (XBOX)Shodian said:

Many games do this though. A lot of the newest Resident Evil games make you take control of a different character for a while. Is that also bad design?

... yes...

Well, depends on how different or detached from the core gameplay that other character is... if it's just another skin for "character with random gun", without modding, without different abilities that give you different options during gameplay, etc...

I personally haven't played the Resident Evil games.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

20 minutes ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

... yes...

Well, depends on how different or detached from the core gameplay that other character is... if it's just another skin for "character with random gun", without modding, without different abilities that give you different options during gameplay, etc...

I personally haven't played the Resident Evil games.

You believe it's bad design because it makes someone leave their comfort zone?