There's too much carrying in game there needs to be gates

[_Schokolade_]

So while doing this weeks Archon Shard the disruption one was far too much for people MR13-20 who who i suspect were carried and didn't actually have any skill. While i was breezing through the mission i basically cycled through 7 teammates as they would die leave and be replaced. These are the people who were most likely carried and should not be doing endgame content. I purpose there to be more MR gates in the end game content like Archon Shards(MR25+), or the alternative add a limited number of tries per day. I understand the difficulty of the missions are a kind of gate but that also drags down the people who can actually handle the content but don't want to play solo and dont have equivalent skilled friends.

[quxier]

47 minutes ago, _Schokolade_ said:

, or the alternative add a limited number of tries per day.

> People complain about time gates

> Chocolate appears

This is crazy.

50 minutes ago, _Schokolade_ said:

So while doing this weeks Archon Shard the disruption one was far too much for people MR13-20 who who i suspect were carried and didn't actually have any skill. While i was breezing through the mission i basically cycled through 7 teammates as they would die leave and be replaced. These are the people who were most likely carried and should not be doing endgame content.

Probably any reasonably high MR can fail that mission. I think they fixed that but I've been killed when I've been inside Limbo's Catasis, with "single" shoot from the outside.

I bet there are people that just failed because of some stupid mechanic and they haven't stacked some immortality or something.

53 minutes ago, _Schokolade_ said:

I understand the difficulty of the missions are a kind of gate but that also drags down the people who can actually handle the content but don't want to play solo and dont have equivalent skilled friends.

Maybe invite people?

54 minutes ago, _Schokolade_ said:

I purpose there to be more MR gates in the end game content like Archon Shards(MR25+),

I'm MR 26 afair. I farmed lot of melees so I'm pretty high MR (could be higher but I don't feel like doing that memory test). However not all people are at that level. It's stupid to assume such thing. When they have introduced Helminth (or Invigorations) DE initially set requirements to high MR. After a while they said that majority of people are not higher than, I don't remember, 15 MR.

And if you put some kind of gate here, then why not put it in all game? I bet when I've been beating starchart I've died A LOT. I've been carried a lot. That's how this game is.

35 minutes ago, LittleLeonie said:

Warframe finally needs DPS and theoretic EHP checks that are either internal for gating purposes and/or maybe even exposed to the players to be able to better guage and min/max their builds for specific content.

I don't think players need any DPS/EHP check. Just make content for all players. Don't just increase HP and decrease player's damage and call it hard. If Archon were hard as New war Archon with Drifter then we wouldn't have such issues.

[(PSN)c1234567890alvi]

While I think the conditions to enter certain content should be higher, I don't think higher MR is going to solve the problem here. MR only says how much you play the game, but not necessarily how good you are. I've seen players truly unworthy of Leg 2. 

Side note: there is this little, but really obnoxious faction in the forum that is always complaining about how power creep makes the game too easy, yet here we are complaining about always getting set into groups that need to be carried through content. Ironic really...

[SpicyDinosaur]

33 minutes ago, quxier said:

When they have introduced Helminth (or Invigorations) DE initially set requirements to high MR. After a while they said that majority of people are not higher than, I don't remember, 15 MR.

they changed it to a lower MR before even implementing it. They should have kept it high, because the mechanics are a resource sink for more established players, and it causes newer players to constantly be low or out of resources they need for other things,

 

Though I disagree with the sentiments of the OP and agree that lower MR players can be fully competent for higher tier content and higher MR players can just utterly suck at it.

[Pizzarugi]

43 minutes ago, quxier said:

If Archon were hard as New war Archon with Drifter then we wouldn't have such issues.

Isn't that essentially the same as raising enemy HP and lowering player damage, though? I did New War and it felt like I spent a lot my time kiting the Archons while I turned their faces into pincushions even with the precisely charged Nataruk.

The other problem is that you can't compare uber Archons with mission Archons. The former have damage attenuation to account for ridiculous weapon power that frames possess. You remove that, players will easily 1shot it, as demonstrated by videos of solo players doing it with Kuva Hek and Ivara. The only way to make the uber Archons feel as tough as New War archons, you'd have to nerf the everliving daylights out of Warframe weapons so they can't obliterate them.

[Tyreaus]

1 hour ago, LittleLeonie said:

What I would like is if there was a mechanism that could determine how many actually fully fleshed out builds are on an account. How many of items mastered are actually items owned - regardless of the quantity.

The problem is the inverse: someone skilled at the game may only have a handful of fleshed-out weapons because they picked the optimal weapons and discarded the fodder to save on plat and slots. They might be perfectly equipped and capable for Archon Hunts, but fail this equipment requirement because they're more efficient / picky. And if there's some fairly easy way for them to get past those requirements—like hoarding a bunch of plat to buy some slots for junk weapons that have dummy mods slotted to count as "fleshed out"—that's also a way for someone with the skill of a W+M1 Pyro to pass, too.

At the end of the day, equipment doesn't match capability. So it's pretty much impossible to look at someone's equipment list and, for sure, know they're (in)capable of tackling Archon Hunts.

[(XBOX)sinamanthediva]

I think you are thinking about this the wrong way.  If you are "breezing" through the Archon Hunt, then what does it matter if other Squad members come and go, clearly you are not affected by their failures so let it be a "lesson learned" to which they hopefully would attempt to improve themselves and/or builds so they could complete the mission as easily as yourself.  If it isn't a problem to the success of your mission, then why bother complaining about other ill properly prepared players and asking DE to make changes to the game just so you don't have to be bothered?  It is a PUBLIC mission that you agreed to play with players who might be skilled or not, so this is a YOU problem that can be fixed with a checkbox labeled "Solo."   ** Poof **  problem solved, you're welcome!

Have a pleasant tomorrow!

[quxier]

20 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

1 hour ago, quxier said:

If Archon were hard as New war Archon with Drifter then we wouldn't have such issues.

Isn't that essentially the same as raising enemy HP and lowering player damage, though? I did New War and it felt like I spent a lot my time kiting the Archons while I turned their faces into pincushions even with the precisely charged Nataruk.

No. Raising enemy HP and/or lowering player damage won't create meaningful challenge. Sure, you want to have some interaction with a boss but raise it too much and you just hitting sponge.

26 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

The other problem is that you can't compare uber Archons with mission Archons. The former have damage attenuation to account for ridiculous weapon power that frames possess. You remove that, players will easily 1shot it, as demonstrated by videos of solo players doing it with Kuva Hek and Ivara. The only way to make the uber Archons feel as tough as New War archons, you'd have to nerf the everliving daylights out of Warframe weapons so they can't obliterate them.

There are other ways. Challenge players via mechanical challenges. Enemy charging big laser? Run (Forest, run!)! Enemy tries to grab your leg? Jump. So on and so forth. Then to increase challenge you can make those movement faster or last shorter. Imagine having Energy leech eximus that has bubble explosion shortened. You cannot just stand there. You have to move much quicker.

And if the challenge comes from enemy HP then I don't mind enemy get "one shooted". In general the better we are the quicker it should be.

[AntifreezeUnder0]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

There are other ways. Challenge players via mechanical challenges. Enemy charging big laser? Run (Forest, run!)! Enemy tries to grab your leg? Jump. So on and so forth. Then to increase challenge you can make those movement faster or last shorter. Imagine having Energy leech eximus that has bubble explosion shortened. You cannot just stand there. You have to move much quicker.

And if the challenge comes from enemy HP then I don't mind enemy get "one shooted". In general the better we are the quicker it should be.

Most of mechanics are just for fake difficulty illusion. 

Im just glad archons dont have zealoid treatment. No matter what you do, you can deal 1/5th of the hp as dmg to have illusion its tough boss, which is just mechanic in place to act as timewaster.

But overall natural enemy scaling / high lvl of enemies is the real issue in the end.

We get years of improved weapos/mods and can do solo lvl cap runs. Yet starchart at best throws at us lvl 200 enemies.... Which .... is just a joke in a way.

Imagine if enemies be lvl 500 on get go, and go up to lvl cap in boss fights. It be logical challenge to kill, but then again their rewards for killing wont be as worth as doing them. But it would more or less on higher lvl enemies divide and reduce the effectivness of 1 type of meta, to other.

Lvl cap lephantis with the bug that only aoe/radial attack be able to do dmg. 

[SenorClipClop]

High MR is not a skill gate, and restricting the Archon Hunts to higher-MR players would do little to nothing in filtering out players with lower skill/knowledge. All MR really is, is how many weapons you've grinded levels into, and the ability to google a way to make each MR test trivial.

[Pakaku]

MR is not a sign of skill. What a good gate could be is requiring the player to beat a quick pre-Archon boss designed to test if they have the skill and equipment to hold up in an actual mission.

[ArturiaFayth]

Lets get the idea of MR gating out of the way as that doesn't equal skill. Just shows how much you've grinded.

As for the archon hunts, if you can carry others, then just do that. Try to explain the mechanics while carrying and with a bit of luck, they'll improve over time when knowing what works and what doesn't.

As for having a check on only completed builds, how would you check for that? Seen builds where they claim it to be completed but the when new mods or arcanes come in, that same build is no longer a completed build thanks to tweaks that they feel are needed. 

[user_85631]

Well, that would be quite unfair for people with low MR for it to be gated because they probably want the archon shard.

[(PSN)iuvenilis]

MR means very little. So MR "gates" do very little.

Could you not simply solo it? Or create your own squad? If you want to run with pubs, then you need to accept the situation. Pub runs of any kind are often quite variable, even more so in higher level content.

[(XBOX)AMONGTHEWEAK]

What would those players who leech need archon shards for? You don’t need them for someone else to play the game for you haha