ability energy cost capping ?

[_Anise_]

just a thought I was having, shouldn't ability cost with negative efficiency cap at 100% current energy cost to prevent a situation where ability can't be used at all?

[NinjaZeku]

2 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

cap at 100% current energy cost

You mean, cap the cost at your current Max Energy value, I assume?

TBH I don't really think that's necessary, if you use a Mod with a severe drawback, it's on you to fix (or simply deal with) that, not the game.

Also that's kind of "only" an issue with old Frames that merely get 150 Max Energy by default,
my preferred "solution" here would be to raise the minimum Max Energy value at Rank 30 for all Frames to ~200 at least
(it's still silly how some non-Prime Frames get a whoopin' 300 nowadays when old Primes even with a Max Energy buff still didn't reach that).

[Pakaku]

It's also a hurdle when it comes to reduced energy Sorties. Just something you need to be conscious about when modding.

[trst]

Why should that situation be prevented when it's one that only happens when a player willingly put themselves into it? Just don't mod in a way that's counterproductive to what you want to accomplish.

[TheArmchairThinker]

2 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

just a thought I was having, shouldn't ability cost with negative efficiency cap at 100% current energy cost to prevent a situation where ability can't be used at all?

First, it's a situation you put yourself in by your own choice

Second, capping negative energy cap at 100% means blind rage is a free 55% power strength increase and corrupted mods are supposed to be giving you bigger boost with penalty, similar to cursed equipment in other games

Third, there are builds able to give you 200% power and 175% efficiency with mods and shards, use them

[_Anise_]

3 hours ago, Pakaku said:

It's also a hurdle when it comes to reduced energy Sorties. Just something you need to be conscious about when modding.

^ this ^ some warframes have limited builds, they need power range and duration and have to sacrifice efficiency, no way around it?, then you go into a sortie sometimes an impatient person will queue for the second part without wait to see everyone was ready and realize that "ooh guess half my kit just isn't working for this mission"

so it isn't always a situation you put yourself in by choice, it does restrict to an extent what waframes can be used or how they perform, so again I wonder why not cap abilities maximum energy cost at 100% of current energy so worst case it can always be used?

  

3 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Second, capping negative energy cap at 100%

not sure I explained currectly when I say at 100% I mean using the ability would drain your entire energy pool, it would still be pretty crippling at that but better than just shutting off an ability because random sortie thinks "reduced energy pools" is a fun thing, anyway mostly just spitballing, in most cases when a reduced energy sortie comes up giving the opportunity I switch to shield mom so I can ignore it when the party allows it.

[GilgaMelchi]

There's already a cap, abilities cannot cost more than 175% their original cost (achievable only for channeled abilities with modded negative efficiency and negative duration).

Also, consuming your whole energy pool as a cap would render the Sortie Hazard Energy Reduction completely moot and overpowered (it is supposed to be a hindrance, not a bonus) as long as you have some sort of energy regen.

[laid95]

We already got to much Energy to the Point where U can spam everything regardless of efficiency. 

[NinjaZeku]

2 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

sortie

To clarify, are you saying that, in an Energy Reduction Sortie, where you're using e.g. a Rhino with now just 37 Max Energy,
you would want, and see no issue with, a "normally" 155 Energy cost Rhino Stomp suddenly only costing 37 Energy?

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

7 hours ago, NinjaZeku said:

You mean, cap the cost at your current Max Energy value, I assume?

TBH I don't really think that's necessary, if you use a Mod with a severe drawback, it's on you to fix (or simply deal with) that, not the game.

Also that's kind of "only" an issue with old Frames that merely get 150 Max Energy by default,
my preferred "solution" here would be to raise the minimum Max Energy value at Rank 30 for all Frames to ~200 at least
(it's still silly how some non-Prime Frames get a whoopin' 300 nowadays when old Primes even with a Max Energy buff still didn't reach that).

Rhino and frost prime have less energy then base baruuk and gyre :(

[NinjaZeku]

2 hours ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Rhino and frost prime have less energy then base baruuk and gyre :(

Yep.

[Tiltskillet]

57 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

3 hours ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Rhino and frost prime have less energy then base baruuk and gyre :(

Yep.

Which seems semi-reasonable comparing Rhino Prime to  Baruuk and Gyre.

Of course, the other way to look at this is, the only frames with less energy than Rhino Prime and Frost Prime have zero energy. :P

Frost Prime though.  Love that tasty shield bump, DE! Whenever I think about his stats, I don't know whether to LOL or yeesh.  LOLyeeeessh.

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

50 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

Which seems semi-reasonable comparing Rhino Prime to  Baruuk and Gyre.

Of course, the other way to look at this is, the only frames with less energy than Rhino Prime and Frost Prime have zero energy. :P

Frost Prime though.  Love that tasty shield bump, DE! Whenever I think about his stats, I don't know whether to LOL or yeesh.  LOLyeeeessh.

Funny you mention frosts shields because now Revenant and Styanax have higher base shields then frost, and obviously then theres hildyrn

[Tiltskillet]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Funny you mention frosts shields because now Revenant and Styanax have higher base shields then frost, and obviously then theres hildyrn

Oh, I wasn't mentioning Frost Prime's shields like it's a meaningful stat upgrade.   It's just the only stat upgrade. :P

Somebody using shieldgating  now would consider it an outright downgrade.  (Not that this was a thing when Frost Prime came out.)

[(PSN)CommanderC2121]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

Oh, I wasn't mentioning Frost Prime's shields like it's a meaningful stat upgrade.   It's just the only stat upgrade. :P

Somebody using shieldgating  now would consider it an outright downgrade.  (Not that this was a thing when Frost Prime came out.)

Meanwhile Atlas Prime has the most changes at 5

[Tiltskillet]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)CommanderC2121 said:

Meanwhile Atlas Prime has the most changes at 5

Not just the most but the biggest, I think. They were really worried about selling that Prime I guess.

 

[0_The_F00l]

No i do not feel this needs to be a thing ,

Or if it is then there needs to be a concept of negative energy or energy debt to balance it.

 

As to the examples,

The whole point of the sorties is to have hurdles and the player is supposed to overcome them with skill or knowledge.

Other players starting a sortie while you prepare is more of a communication or human behaviour issue.

You building your loadout where it is especially bad in these situations is again a skill or knowledge issue.