This gameplay shown by Pablo doesn’t get me excited.

[Dr_Mechano]

On 3/29/2023 at 12:49 PM, --END--Rikutatis said:

The video shown is definitely lacking hit animation/flinch on the enemies though, hopefully that's just a dev build thing.

That is the biggest issue, right now combat looks floaty AF, there's so little impact to those swings it's like the Drifter is swatting at flies with a pool noodle because there's no effort in those swings. Compare and contrast Monster Hunter hammer play Notice both the amount of buildup behind the swing, the hitstop and hitflash when it connects with the monster. Heck lets not use the big windup move and instead show a basic attack. Once more, hitstop, hitflash and an animation which has the character putting their whole body into the swing.

This isn't a problem in normal warframe because you're going to be swinging those weapons at ludicrous speeds anyway so most of the time swinging a weapon like it was a pool noodle with the enemies barely reacting doesn't matter because you're already Dynasty Warrior'sing your way through the hordes of enemies.

However for slower combat focus that they're clearly going for with this experience....it looks, I'll be honest, bloody terrible.

[Hiraya]

1 hour ago, Dr_Mechano said:

That is the biggest issue, right now combat looks floaty AF, there's so little impact to those swings it's like the Drifter is swatting at flies with a pool noodle because there's no effort in those swings. Compare and contrast Monster Hunter hammer play Notice both the amount of buildup behind the swing, the hitstop and hitflash when it connects with the monster. Heck lets not use the big windup move and instead show a basic attack. Once more, hitstop, hitflash and an animation which has the character putting their whole body into the swing.

This isn't a problem in normal warframe because you're going to be swinging those weapons at ludicrous speeds anyway so most of the time swinging a weapon like it was a pool noodle with the enemies barely reacting doesn't matter because you're already Dynasty Warrior'sing your way through the hordes of enemies.

However for slower combat focus that they're clearly going for with this experience....it looks, I'll be honest, bloody terrible.

I really like those reference images to really show what you mean. I've long wanted heavy weapons in Warframe to feel like there's some weight and power in the swing and hit. I hope at least for Duviri we can get some of that.

[Felsagger]

5 hours ago, MqToasty said:

Good for you.  I do not like any Souls game.

 

Then you have no business defending or arguing about the genre. You simply ruled yourself out. 

5 hours ago, MqToasty said:

but I will still reserve judgment because DE has a history of delivering more hits than misses for me.

 

 

https://www.metacritic.com/company/digital-extremes

https://www.metacritic.com/company/from-software

DE Average career score: 67/100

From Software Average career score 74/100

Sony Interactive Entertainment career score 75/100

 Facts. 

 

5 hours ago, MqToasty said:

  And I would guess it is the same for you too, because otherwise, why are you wasting your time here?

I'm here simply providing my factual opinion. The game for me seems like a clone of Elden Ring. I will call it Elden Ring lite. 

 

[Felsagger]

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Except they aren't aiming for a souls like experience, neither with Duviri or Soulframe as they've straight up pointed out.

 

Evidence states otherwise. 

That's the evidence. The resemblance, speed and game play is almost IDENTICAL. 

There. 

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm fairly sure that Soul in Soulframe will refer to a mechanic tied to the whatever they call it "operator" there. Where instead of chasing frames we harness the power of different souls.

It is literally Elden Ring with that only feature. That's what it is. See the video. 

5 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

Steve said that Soul in Soulframe does not refer to Souls like, it refers to a theme in the game itself. Much like WF being named after the tools we use. Blocking and dodging at a slower pace does not make a game souls like, alot more goes into it. Otherwise DMC, WF, ESO, GW2, Outriders, Wayfinder, Neverwinter Star Trek Online (lol) and several other action games would be souls like since they also have active blocks and dodges and are punishing aswell. 

It doesn't matter what you think right now because the evidence overthrow your entire argument. Sorry. You are inventing stuff up out of the blue. The video literally contradicts your argument. You got debunked entirely. 

[Circle_of_Psi]

9 hours ago, MqToasty said:

Not a stupid question at all, but how about this, at a minimum?  Even a simple stagger / wince animation like this from enemies hit by a 1-handed sword is a good start, though clearly there should be a larger variety encompassing at least a light-medium-heavy amount of stagger from corresponding weapons/attacks.

<Video here>

All I saw in OP's video was a knockdown animation from the severed hand's beam attack, and a death animation.  No reaction whatsoever from the hammer hits, which is quite worrisome.

Ahh I see, makes more sense, Yeah I can see why that is worrying 

8 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

True, but what is also true is that people are clueless in general. I mean just in this case people throw up their arms and scream the heavens are falling, as if a company cannot have more than one project to work on at a time. For the most part people dont really know what goes on in development, it is like the people that go "can they stop make frames and focus on fixing bugs/releasing new content?" as if everyone at DE is Da Vinci and can do/does everything. And it isnt that the mentality is unique to WF, the "stop make X and focus on Y" is everywhere.

I mean, the only justified "complaint" right now come from the people that dont appriciate that extremely different gameplay that Duviri will bring, the people that want more core WF, since the two go hand in hand and can actually be interchangable regarding where development focus should be placed. And I'm with them, even if I wouldnt mind some new spice in the gameplay. Because for me, the off-core development has been too damn much lately, holding back core content for the game, and none of it so far has provided actual replay value. It just ends up as islands more islandish than anything else in the game.

The thing I hope for though is that when Soulframe is released, DE will have enough experience from WF to not make the same mistakes over again with that game, and keep it inline from day 1 and onward so they can both produce gameplay that is true to the core and make it worthwhile and balanced. Atleast in Soulframe they wont have to worry about the "my powah fantsi!" crowd.

Fair enough

[Circle_of_Psi]

8 hours ago, (NSW)AegisFifi said:

On the Devstream, they've shown the complete Duviri experience (story, side objectives, drifter and warframe..everything), but The Circuit let's you have a "Duvirian" Warframe-only gameplay.

They've announced this :

Depending on your goals for your gameplay session, you’ll have three different ways to experience the open landscape:
- The Duviri Experience (Story and side objectives together!)
- The Lone Story (No side activities - only story.)
- The Circuit (Warframe-only Mode in the Undercroft)

THE UNDERCROFT

In addition to Duviri, there are other ways to impact Dominus Thrax’s influence on the world: through the Undercroft. This can be accessed through portals on Duviri, or via The Circuit option in your Duviri Navigation.

Here, you’ll make full use of your Warframe to take on foes, and still have the benefit of your Drifter’s Decrees. Your time in the Undercroft for your Duviri missions will be short, but The Circuit will give you access to an endless form of the Undercroft.

With The Circuit, you’ll play through a variety of endless missions one rotation at a time: 5 minutes of survival followed by 5 waves of defense, and so on. Players will still be able to unlock Decrees to impact their gameplay in The Circuit, and Steel Path versions of this mission will earn you Incarnon Adapters for our new Incarnon Genesis system.

 

That's why they were on the warframe mode only for a short time : on the Duviri Experience, the Undercroft is a side-objective, but on the Circuit, the warframe mode is the main (and only) kind of gameplay.

Thank you so much

Gonna save this, so I can be reminded and help my pals understand

[-Krism-]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

It's obvious from both duviri gameplay and soulframe gameplay, they are both blatant rip offs. Of course DE isn't going to admit that, and taking their word on things is extremely naive.

Hmm, yes of course, thirdperson + melee gameplay = ripoff

[android3162]

On 3/29/2023 at 8:53 AM, (XBOX)YoungGunn82 said:

Maybe I’m alone. But watching this game play of what looks like a slower discount Elden ring knock off mobile game. Just not feeling it, and doesn’t get me excited. I can’t get over the fact that this doesn’t feel like Warframe anymore. Just more not Warframe and vary slow and clunky gameplay. 

this took DE the better part of 5 years, 5 YEARS to put this together. Yikes.

what is everyone else thoughts here? Does this gameplay excite you? Are you looking forward to it? Why or Why not? 

Well the fact this, this isn't the work of "the better part of 5 years." It's the better part of one year, and maybe 1.5
Based on the realistic figures I don't think anybody would expect much more than this, stripped-down-combat-basics wise, from an update that's not primarily or even secondarily about combat itself. Duviri is a new alternate beginning to the game, and even though it will inevitably have a lot less depth than the Warframe-side on release, there is a ton of room to improve the basics of combat over time. Just like how today's Warframe wasn't made in a couple updates.
To have any impression about Duviri itself, we'll have to see what the unique things about Duviri look like - intrinsics, decrees, roguelite aspect, and the weirdness in general.

Then again, given how many people want things from New War like slow gameplay back, and hate that Drifter has operator abilities, I don't know anything anymore.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

38 minutes ago, -Krism- said:

Hmm, yes of course, thirdperson + melee gameplay = ripoff

No the lock on, camera angle and slow combat. You must have been watching something else.

[cute_moth.npc]

2 hours ago, android3162 said:

I don't think anybody would expect much more than this, stripped-down-combat-basics wise, from an update that's not primarily or even secondarily about combat itself

I honestly don't believe that all of the work they put into making a new combat system and highlighting it during their streams was done without considering that combat is a hugely important factor of the update, and to be honest with you I wasn't expecting an Elden Ring level of polish but watching how bad the A.I. is at showing aggression and how weightless the combat feels, I actually did expect more than this.

2 hours ago, android3162 said:

there is a ton of room to improve the basics of combat over time

I hope so! If this is indicative of Soulframe, it won't stand a chance with souls players on release. They need to really work on getting better enemy responses than what is shown and adding some weight to those hits. I wouldn't even be releasing Duviri in the state shown in the gameplay video Pablo came out with, it's going to end up tainting impressions on how the company can handle making a game in this genre which has some vicious competition unlike Warframe which is more comfortable in its own niche. I feel like if they delayed for a little bit and worked on being serious about presenting themselves in a new genre with some combat that resembles the high bar they will need to compete, I would be actually really happy with it and feel brighter about what was coming out.

[android3162]

11 minutes ago, cute_moth.npc said:

I honestly don't believe that all of the work they put into making a new combat system and highlighting it during their streams was done without considering that combat is a hugely important factor of the update, and to be honest with you I wasn't expecting an Elden Ring level of polish but watching how bad the A.I. is at showing aggression and how weightless the combat feels, I actually did expect more than this.

I don't really think the combat moveset is really that new. There's a parry button, but the rest is built off of Warframe melee. It just feels different, like Teshin feeling different despite being a mashup of existing stances.
I'm not saying the gameplay isn't a consideration, so let me rephrase myself: I don't think the gameplay is supposed to be the reason you play Duviri. I think the gameplay is supposed to lend it self to Duviri... That is, allow Duviri to show its unique aspects and shine, rather than be overruled by the ability of a frame to jump 30 feet in the air suddenly and freeze the entire map.

For example, look at how cool the Orowyrm fight preview felt... It's very scripted, most of that stuff is not at all base-combat. But if Drifter had Operator-like movement, it would no longer feel that epic and more like a very specific weird thing you are restricted into doing.

As for the enemy AI, I think the AI is either dumb because there's a lot of them and Drifter is VERY squishy (And if it's similar to the Soulframe Demo, it might be why Scott was so damn nervous playing live), or that this is how things look on the "easy mode." Cause in another fight, the horseback knight unit thing managed to perfectly stunlock Rebecca.

[Felsagger]

6 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

It's obvious from both duviri gameplay and soulframe gameplay, they are both blatant rip offs. Of course DE isn't going to admit that, and taking their word on things is extremely naive.

That's correct. Entirely true. 

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

It’s gonna really suck if this update ends up bombing harder than Railjack.

[Numerikuu]

On 3/29/2023 at 3:35 PM, Mazifet said:

My big problem with this is that even the giant torso sized hammer has no impact when hitting an enemy.

For example, if you hit someone with a weapon like this:

they're going to go flying.

Meanwhile in Duviri they don't even flinch at all.

Why would I want Duviri when I can just ^

Only issue I have with the clip tbh. The lack of enemy reaction to the hits from the weapon isn't great, but at the same time it's obvious this is a testing ground for Soulframe. Hopefully they improve upon it though, and despite the spew of negativity here I'm still very much looking forward to Duviri 🙂

[MqToasty]

7 hours ago, Felsagger said:

DE Average career score: 67/100

From Software Average career score 74/100

Sony Interactive Entertainment career score 75/100

 Facts. 

So critics' opinions are facts now?

All bow to the almighty Metacritic!  Don't anyone dare have a differing opinion or different preferences!  If you do, well, the almighty Pope Donald will laugh at you! (or something)

But seriously, if you think so little about DE, why waste so much of your life here, writing more than 4000 posts?  Why not go spend some time on From Software forums or SIE forums?

[--Leyenda-yight6]

hace 13 minutos, MqToasty dijo:

All bow to the almighty Metacritic!  Don't anyone dare have a differing opinion or different preferences!  If you do, well, the almighty Pope Donald will laugh at you! (or something)

lmao, seriously, who completely trusts critics scores?

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

So critics' opinions are facts now?

Correct. We call that consensus. 

The Einstein Field equations is an opinion between Hilbert and Einstein about the Lagrangian formulation of the field equations. Yes, it was a comment he write and many people agreed reviewing his work. It's science. That's how it work. 

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

All bow to the almighty Metacritic!  Don't anyone dare have a differing opinion or different preferences!  If you do, well, the almighty Pope Donald will laugh at you! (or something)

Try any other method? How about your personal opinion? Should I consider your personal opinion as the last word on what you write? Let me apply your exact logic. "Don't anyone dare have a different opinion or different preferences!" 

See how that logic doesn't fly? Comments like that gets debunked with facts. When you write sentences like that readers and writers are going to make use of the curriculum vitae of such developer. However if you see the pasture green in your eyes, the one that DE provides, no one stop you. You are free to play anything you want. 

I know what top quality is, what good gaming is and who deserves full support. I simply inform my opinion in a scientific way. DE may be average good but not that good like Guerrilla Games, Santa Monica Studio, Insomniac, Bungie or From Software. That's how things are. 

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

But seriously, if you think so little about DE. 

I simply put things into perspective. I think Warframe is an average good entertaining game but never at the quality of Horizon Zero Forbidden West or Spiderman. It's a fair entertaining GAAS game. I still enjoy it but I'm aware how things are. 

Simple. 

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

why waste so much of your life here, writing more than 4000 posts?

I choose where I post and when. I state positive things about DE and I critique things that can improve in DE and their game. 

Do you have any problem with that? 

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

  Why not go spend some time on From Software forums or SIE forums?

I decide where and when I spend my time. I come here to talk about the things I like and I don't like. I can critique the things I like without being biased. I do the same for Elden Ring and many other games. 

Democracy seems to be way tough on certain individuals but for better or worse people think by themselves and have informed opinions about things. 

There. 

[Felsagger]

5 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

It’s gonna really suck if this update ends up bombing harder than Railjack.

That would be disaster for DE up to biblical proportions.

 

Let's hope we don't get another taste of Railjack launch Part 2 in Duviri. It would be horrendous if it happens. . 

[MqToasty]

56 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

2 hours ago, MqToasty said:

So critics' opinions are facts now?

Correct. We call that consensus. 

Okay, you only used it once.  But an average score is not a consensus.

56 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Try any other method? How about your personal opinion? Should I consider your personal opinion as the last word on what you write?

No.  You should consider your own personal opinion as the final say on what you enjoy.  Which is exactly what I stated over here, which you feebly attempted to prove me wrong by quoting Metacritic, of all things:

10 hours ago, Felsagger said:

  15 hours ago, MqToasty said:

but I will still reserve judgment because DE has a history of delivering more hits than misses for me.

Emphasis yours, red emphasis mine.

56 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

I choose where I post and when. I state positive things about DE and I critique things that can improve in DE and their game. 

Do you have any problem with that? 

Problem?  No.  But profound sadness?  Yes.  I would never waste so much of my time in a forum of a game and developer that I think so little of, but hey, to each their own.

56 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Democracy seems to be way tough on certain individuals but for better or worse people think by themselves and have informed opinions about things. 

Says someone who tries to ridicule and prove another user's opinion wrong by quoting Metacritic as fact and truth.  Irony much?

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

Okay, you only used it once.  But an average score is not a consensus.

There is a general agreement on the evaluations. On such rubric we practice a statistical measure called the average. In measure theory the measure is 1. We use statistics in our rubric. A scoring guide is settled on similar parameters. 

You have the voice of reviewers and the voice of the general public. There is an agreement between reviewers and the general public. 

 

You are not dealing with your average Joe, just sayin'. 

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

No.  You should consider your own personal opinion as the final say on what you enjoy.

Quality in gaming goes beyond what you enjoy or not. There is a concept we call ARCHITECTURE. We study the assembly, construction, dismounting, design and development of an idea, building, art, mechanism, discipline AND entertainment in particular game design delivery. 

You are free to choose any method you see fit. I chose science for my analysis. 

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

  Which is exactly what I stated over here, which you feebly attempted to prove me wrong by quoting Metacritic, of all things:

I tested the theory you proposed here "because DE has a history of delivering more hits than misses" 

I discarded the subjectivity part in "me". 

 

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

Problem?  No.  But profound sadness?  Yes.

Correction, enjoyment. :D

Sadness has nothing to do with this in the minimum. That's your hypothesis. 

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

  I would never waste so much of my time in a forum of a game and developer that I think so little of, but hey, to each their own.

I differentiate my personal tastes from my analysis on the things I do. One is mutually exclusive of the other. 

1 hour ago, MqToasty said:

Says someone who tries to ridicule and prove another user's opinion wrong by quoting Metacritic as fact and truth.  Irony much?

That's not my purpose. My purpose is to make you think. 

"Fun or not I will reserve my judgment until I get my hands on it. "

Soul Frame FEELS LIKE a ripoff of the game Elden Ring. The camera angle, the lock on, slow movement and the game play mechanics are almost IDENTICAL. DE will never admit it. That's literally identical to Elden Ring. I prefer if DE comes up with an original idea instead of copy pasting trends such as Elden Ring like the 'Land of the Dragon' industries that copy and paste WITHOUT the quality. 

Many people coincide with this observation. That's all what we have in front of us. 

[Veridian]

Isn't the only thing that translates into regular play farmed by... Regular play?

So this content can safely be ignored.

Now, if DE at least pumped up the aggression of the enemies, then they might be on to something.

[EdinaMonsoon]

error post!

[MqToasty]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

There is a general agreement on the evaluations. On such rubric we practice a statistical measure called the average. In measure theory the measure is 1. We use statistics in our rubric. A scoring guide is settled on similar parameters. 

Oh really?  Then what methodology did you pick to calculate your average?  Mean, median or mode?  Weighted or unweighted?  How do you justify the choices?  How did you normalize the different scales the reviewers used?  What is your margin of error?

Here's a tip: Throwing around big words and concepts that you only have a rudimentary understanding of, in a public forum, will not make you look smart.  A broad claim that a simple arithmetic average of subjective scores between different reviewers with different preferences and scoring criteria is somehow "general agreement" is incredibly dubious, to say the least.

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

You have the voice of reviewers and the voice of the general public. There is an agreement between reviewers and the general public. 

Really?  What kind of authoritarian society do you live in, where no dissent is allowed and an average is automatically translated into agreement?

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

You are not dealing with your average Joe, just sayin'. 

 

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

Quality in gaming goes beyond what you enjoy or not. There is a concept we call ARCHITECTURE. We study the assembly, construction, dismounting, design and development of an idea, building, art, mechanism, discipline AND entertainment in particular game design delivery. 

You are free to choose any method you see fit. I chose science for my analysis. 

 

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

I tested the theory you proposed here "because DE has a history of delivering more hits than misses" 

I discarded the subjectivity part in "me". 

So you are intentionally misquoting me now?  Because I proposed no such theory.  I just stated the reason why I choose to reserve judgment, and made it clear it was my opinion.  Or are you now pretending there is an objective judge of what makes a game enjoyable, and posing as the judge of such things?  If that is the case, then all I have for you is:

 

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

Correction, enjoyment. :D

Sadness has nothing to do with this in the minimum. That's your hypothesis. 

My sadness, not yours.  Sad for me to see someone choose to waste their life on the forums of a game they view so little of.  But then again, it is your life, and you are free to spend it as you see fit.

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

That's not my purpose. My purpose is to make you think. 

But you know what, you did make me think.  I've been thinking about why someone with so much vitriol and distain for a game would spend so much time on its forums, posing as an expert and make baseless claims.  Were they banned on a previous account and swore revenge on the devs?  Do they have a masochistic need to get in forum arguments with random strangers?  I do not know the answer, but the question is fascinating.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

So far they only really shown gameplay with the hammer and dual nikanas, curious how the other weapons act, and what the difference between starting out and having the intrinsics maxed. DE gameplay vids are not the best to get the feel of new things as they tend to show off early level stuff. 

[AegidiusF]

il y a 29 minutes, MqToasty a dit :

Really?  What kind of authoritarian society do you live in, where no dissent is allowed and an average is automatically translated into agreement?

Reading all this thread, I really agree with you, and I wanted to bring one element that makes me think official reviews can't really be taken serioulsy :

Many reviewers (almost all of them) are not free to give their opinions and scores. The reason is simple: Companies send their games for free and before the release date for reviewers to let them try the game and publish their notes on the game's release date. But if a reviewer makes a bad comment, or gives a bad score to a game, this reviewer will be blacklisted and will no more receive free games in advance from that game company.

That's why I think that the simple idea of an average between general public and reviewers scores (as Felsagger said) is a nonsense.