The Duviri Paradox: Hotfix 33.0.6

[Thicondrius]

 

gg DE ehhe still nothing to horizon

[Voltage]

11 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

No.

 

Let me elaborate.  DE has been successful because they have a minimal investment and a maximum amount of profit due to cosmetics.  They make player engagement happen by either bad RNG, very limited content, or the favorite of FOMO.  You're seeing that peak now with a weekly 4-5 hour grind to get incarnon adapters...which is just the extension of the sorties and archon hunts...and will die the second that people are getting the third tier stuff in 15 weeks.

 

The comment you're referring back from is fundamentally ignorant.  Porting a game to a new engine is idiotic...because it still relies on the same programmers to write the code.  It's not the engine that sucks...and the proof in the pudding there is Bethesda and whatever they're calling Gamebryo these days.  I believe it's the Creation engine.  It requires modders to release community patches to make the game not a steaming pile of garbage.

 

For my money, DE sucks at coding.  It sucks at planning.  It supremely sucks at communication.  If you carve out the Unreal style gameplay (really, look back to their history) then what you're left with is a bunch of disparate systems that aren't good enough to compete with any other game.  What DE has done is to create one good game loop...and then spend 10 years building garbage around it to extend play times because instead of space ninjas we're now farmers.

 

 

Let me also offer anecdote.  This weekend I:

1) Had to quit Duviri twice because an objective completed, but didn't.  Got to love killing Dax bugging out about 20% of the time.

2) Finally got the Cinta.  It only took 200+ enigma gyrum before the stupid thing dropped.

3) Had a host transfer on the circuit...and the excavators didn't spawn...and neither did enemies.  Never mind the next mission was supposed to be an exterminate.

4) Lost 2 completed Zariman missions because the host just noped out instantly...so they didn't count for the weekly.

5) Got to experience the idiotic super slow down of my frame in an undercroft mission because apparently you can get a cold proc without getting a cold proc...because.

6) Had textures not spawn in Europa.  There's a large semi-circular room with a waterfall that drops "rafts" you can ride.  It has a sloped entrance and exit.  The main floor texture didn't load...so I got to use Zephyr to fly over it....joy.

7) All of the weapons in the undercroft bug out.  Fully levelled Titania, but her pixie weapons reset.  The Imperator is still loading instead of the imperator vandal...so it's a garbage weapon to use against the wyrm.  Can't go operator form...because why would we need to when the horse doesn't load...you just die.  All-in, the one way to get Pathos clamps is moronically bugged...and DE hasn't really focused on that.  They have made sure to nerf the Skana Prime and arcane lockdown...so priorities are obviously straight...right?

 

That's a small anecdotal sample...but it's representative.  DE is bad at coding, and they're going to keep getting the monetary reward until they anger enough of the community to just simply stop getting paid...at which point they'll offer a token fix and a reward set...that will hopefully outdate the outrage...which has been their tactic since PoE...and is the reason that Scarlet Spear never came back...  Thing is, people are getting to the point where they don't play the game 90% of the year...because 10% is required to get content.  Instead of acknowledging this DE is installing gatcha crap (archons and now adapters), and it will backfire.  It's a matter of time...and maybe DE will be smart enough to break the cycle.  Considering we're looking at what, 10 months of Nora I think this game is just going to continue to slowly die...  It's a shame, but at this point when you have 10 years of game and can barely put out enough press coverage to be a joke then you're not really focusing on making things better.

So, who's gonna bet that the Duviri copy of Souls-Bourne style combat is the same garbage we'll see with soulframe, and is already imagining an AC stomping the characters into the ground?  For those newer players, From Soft made Armored Core before Dark Souls...and they're going back to it after Elden Ring.  Anyone else see this as a dead genre yet?

I fully agree with this. I'm not in agreement with the comment I referred to. Sorry if it looked that way. I was just explaining why the game is where it is with so many issues. You elaborated that further here.

[zaturalma2]

On 2023-05-07 at 11:03 AM, master_of_destiny said:

 

So...let's think about this for just a moment.  What do you actually want?

 

I ask this before starting because what I think you want is not actually not to have Aya, but to not link the RNG of the relics to the rotation of old content.  Let me elaborate.  As a veteran player you want to have a smaller pool of rewards to choose from, so that when new ones phase in you have a 12% drop chance for the relic instead of an 11% drop chance...because that's realistically what you're getting.  The Aya is simply a resource that represents the old relics...which allows players to accumulate instead of being buried in useless relics while the RNG cycle of 30 days for the following reward set could never drop much.

 

So...as a fellow veteran I think you're complaining about nothing.  The positive of Aya is a unit is converted into a relic...so there are occasions where I can get 2 or even 3 high level relics from a pack...while acknowledging that they seem to be disproportionately weighted to replacing the rare ones.  It sucks that I have to then grind out a relic with rewards I don't need...but you need void traces for enrichment anyways.  I think your complaint is rooted in bad RNG and really polluted loot drop tables...which is not going to be solved if Aya disappeared.  This isn't a problem of favoring new players...it's a problem of too much stuff and not enough distribution of rewards...

 

 

Now, if we want to talk about favoring new players, let's discuss Duviri.  I remember having to grind the stuffing out of the game to get a lense, because at one point they came from sorties.  I then remember having to grind like crazy because the nearly nothing affinity to focus school conversion sucked.  I then remember having to get a metric ton of resources to craft my first amp, so I could hunt eidolons, to get the resources to unlock my abilities.   

I say this because right now you can get 2500 focus for killing a hollow thrax.  If you spend a couple of hours on Duviri you can easily max out affinity and focus...while unlocking drifter powers which will make you much stronger.  You can then run an archon hunt, and have what took hours to collect with the basic sentient fragments...so no grinding out the vomvalysts with a garbage amp.  It's been a long time since I've accidentally capped on focus...but it happens regularly on Duviri despite being LR3.  

Yeah, DE is degrading the difficulty of the grind to get powered up.  Yeah, it sucks because the veterans have to deal with garbage like having literal millions of endo with nothing to spend it on...because Baro's in week 36 of cosmetics garbage.  Yeah, DE is constantly adding more that dilutes a direct progression path...while diluting rewards such that new players grind to the moon often.  That said...maybe think what you really want, and ask for it.  The symptom is Aya replacements, which is a visual change to the old content bearing relics, which is really a problem because RNG cannot support an infinite amount of options...  Maybe DE should have thought about this instead of just jamming in new relics on a regular rotation...but when the community told them (for years) that new players having to pay 500+ platinum to old players to get access to vaulted content that hasn't been seen in 2+ years DE had to do something...and thinking things through is hard.  Just slap a band-aid on it....

 

 

Sarcasm aside, yeah.  New players are constantly catered to above veterans.  Why try to fight that?  It's infinitely easier to just cheese the game...until DE decides to ban the cheese, and introduces a buggy new mess of content with a hundred new cheese strategies to make this game feel less...like a free to play mobile game.

I just do not want aya to replace relics in relicpacks. I save up standing to buy relic pack so that I can farm the new prime parts and then I get 10+ aya out of the 10 packs I open. And I understand that I can buy the old relics with aya, but I do not need them. I need the new relics and that 10+ aya could have been useful relics that I now have to farm.

I wrote another comment about duviri and why new players should not have access to it, I do not want to repeat the whole thing, but the fact that they spoiled 2nd Dream for players starting in duviri is reason enough to exclude newplayers from duviri imo.

[-AncientWarrior-]

So the 3306 update broke more than it fixed, and created game stopping errors that mostly werent there before, DE then nerf Magus lockdown saying its the cause of all problems.. (lmao) .. Thrax still appear under the map but much more often, host migration halts the game, weapons stop working, transference stops etc etc and .. DE do their usual and again go silent.  8 Circuit runs yesterday, 5 fails because of Thrax under the map 1920m away.. 1 fail from host migration and all had to quit.  DE you need to stop stuffing up and start testing your work.. testing used to be a massive part of game development, now its non-existant at DE.. 10 minutes playing after the 3306 update we knew the update had not been tested because we encountered bugs straight away ..  5 years development DE again came out with great possibilities and made 3 fun modes, then destroy it within 5 updates .. its mind bending crazy to see this every time .. 

[Thicondrius]

mhhh all these days with no update nor official communication, were there any vacations scheduled? no come on i'm kidding, seriously it's weird maybe they are just preparing a big update that will fix and change many things, even with railjack they did it

[Felsagger]

33 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

You...are so far off base.  Congratulations on conflating a stupid idea with yourself....  I don't even know how you can express an opinion without...I believe the colloquialism is being butt hurt about everything that doesn't agree with you.

I don't have any issue with what you say. I understand what you type. My problem with you are modals and manners. I don't call you idiot or make fun of your intelligence. Yes this board is aimed for a fair discussion and such discussion should be carried out despite if I like it or not. 

It's not what you say it's HOW YOU SAY IT. 

33 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

So we are clear, engine ports are idiotic, period.  UE was what DE started working on, and thus their current engine has a lot of the same issues that are already a problem in Warframe.  Maybe you missed the part where MMOs have issues with unreal as an engine...or maybe it's just not doing the basics of research.  Either way, an "opinion" is only as valid as the facts supporting it.  There are already a stupidly large amount of facts that contradict a port solving anything.

Fine, now that you write off my idea, then what you suggest. Do you have any experience as a developer in the business? If so please share your experience with us. 

33 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

You also miss the definition of words...so have at it.  Dev bashing would be to say "DE sucks."  Commentary and opinion is "DE sucks at."  This may be common sense, but let me tell you a secret.  Michael Jordan sucked at baseball, but was a great basketball player.  It's almost like you can make objective commentary, without insulting a person.  Coincidentally, DE acknowledged Duviri was bug riddled, they've regularly acknowledged that their communication sucks, they agree by usage with "primed soon", and most of all they have a bug list and entire forum section dedicated to their issues.  It's almost like you seem to be white knighting for the people who produced the turd that required 3 major overhauls called railjack...but commenting on that will hurt their feelings.

I don't disagree with the information you presented about Duviri, we are all experiencing these issues. 

But you will not reach that far writing how much DE sucks at coding. You are NOT contributing anything. 

33 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

If you cannot take objective criticism, then go home.  You'll feel better that way.  The idea of doing all of the work to port a game into a new engine...that you pulled out of your backside because it's the new hotness...is a stupid idea.  Period.  If you take that as me calling you stupid then you need to get your head checked, because you are not your idea...but maybe instead of crying about it you might just learn some basics of programming...because it takes zero critical thought and slightly less than zero knowledge of coding to understand why this supposition is pants-on-head idiotic.  Alternatively, why not Frostbite?  Why not Lumberyard?  You see, once you propose an idea you need to support it...and "because the latest UE demos are pretty" is how we have the decade long failure of Star Citizen (and their Lumberyard/Cryengine debacle)...  If that comparison didn't hurt then you aren't human.

And I will say it again. I don't have any issue with your novelesque content. Many of the things you type resumes how many people feel about the game. Some of your arguments are accurate. However you do not see me being a douchebag to other members here on the forum board. 

 

Your problem is not your intelligence, but your conduct. 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Felsagger

[AVSManfred]

18 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

So, the reason I asked this is not to squelch the idea.  The reason I asked this is to take it through to the end.

 

A few years back people were already pointing out the vaulting sucked...and we should have a reliquary where some resource could be traded for a relic to get vaulted primes...because 1 then 2 at a time wasn't seeing enough when we have dozens that could only show up every few years.  Veterans were fine because it was grind and done...but it sucked for new players.

 

Flash forward and we get relics dropping.  Flash farther and instead of filler relics we get aya (to buy filler relics).  I go back to the basic request of not diluting an already bonkers reward pool, which is a viable ask.  I don't want to see aya disappear...but if it was a guaranteed objective 2 drop in spy missions only it'd allow for aya to exist, but not pollute other drop tables.  I use the spy missions as only an example...not as a fully formed answer.

 

 

Regarding DE...yeah, player investment is eroding.  That said, if a new player was told it'd be 4+ months of grind to have the good equipment they'd probably just leave day one because the reward to ask is so...unbalanced may be the right word.

Personally, I feel like the entire relic system needs something comparable to Lua Plasma  for Voruna or Gem store for Citrine, an RNG bypass that lets you cut down on how much time you spend counting on RNG to give you the one thing you want, doesn't give you it for free, but also doesn't ask you for premium currency, with how many relics there is in the system relying on them is just a nightmare of RNG driven insanity

And yeah player investment is eroding because DEkeep trying to force players more and more grind for fewer rewards, only accelerating the burnout effects of their boring gameplay formula, also I think a lot of new players fairly quickly learn from others of how much negligence towards veteran players DE keeps displaying, and a lot of them might realize it's not worth playing game long enough to ram head 1st into this wall of negligence themselves so they quit early, after all, there is a reason why successful live service games have their "new players experience" figured out on launch and then further additions are for the grizzled veterans that are spending heavy hours in the game

[Felsagger]

37 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

 

I...just wow.  Butt hurt is an accurate representation.

Is this how you socialize with other people? 

I wish you good luck. 

37 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

You may be completely in your rights to throw a tantrum.. 

The irony here is simply monumental. Look at the size of your post. The word you used there describes your behavior. 

I am not going to continue this argument. You are an expert ruining threads with your long posts. I will not add more fuel to this.  I'm done here. 

[Thicondrius]

wow another day without update I am really in breaks! Elden Ring still wins and warframe as always over the years forsce a good hype and interest then dies soon after for the bugs and frustration that the game still ... a ... time didn't make it.

 

[Thicondrius]

But have they stopped support for warframe? are they only working on soulframe now?

[RHDecnet]

Stropha incarnon... when?

[AVSManfred]

11 hours ago, Thicondrius said:

wow another day without update I am really in breaks! Elden Ring still wins and warframe as always over the years forsce a good hype and interest then dies soon after for the bugs and frustration that the game still ... a ... time didn't make it.

 

seeing how they also moved the update to NW moving it into another Noras mix(a.k.a. intermission 3 episode 6...) maybe they have plans to release one bigger fix then

[Thicondrius]

1 hour ago, AVSManfred said:

seeing how they also moved the update to NW moving it into another Noras mix(a.k.a. intermission 3 episode 6...) maybe they have plans to release one bigger fix then

yes I had written it too ... 2 days ago. but not giving any communication is not respectful I think. absolute silence is not good for player communities we already had other examples, I say maybe they could say something ... anything

 

[AVSManfred]

9 minutes ago, Thicondrius said:

yes I had written it too ... 2 days ago. but not giving any communication is not respectful I think. absolute silence is not good for player communities we already had other examples, I say maybe they could say something ... anything

 

At this point, I'm wondering if maybe they're not busy saving their asses in the eyes of Tencent after Duviri was a major flop of an update after all Tencent might be willing to bet on long-game plans but I think they're not unwilling on pulling the plug on studios that have a consistent track record of generating losses

[[DE]Danielle]

The resource refund scripts for Acrithis’ store have been completed! If you purchased an affected item prior to the price changes, we have offered a blanket refund of various Duviri resources that were most affected by the cost reduction. Due to the nature of Acrithis’ wares, resources and their costs vary per rotation, so instead of a very complicated direct refund, players will receive a variety of resources that scale by the number of total purchases. 

For those waiting on the Incarnon Refund, that is still to come!

[Tendou_Souji]

Can we get a fix for interacting with Maw Fishing spots causing Tamms markers to disappear from map?  Also, I can't seem to get directional pad working for selecting powers as Drifter.

Edited May 11, 2023 by Tendou_Souji

[[DE]Danielle]

Hey Tenno! The resource refund script for Incarnon installation cost reductions has completed! If you installed an Incarnon Genesis on the following weapons you will be receiving the listed refund: 

• Bronco - 150 Nacreous Pebbles 
• Furax - 200 Ariette Scales 
• Furis - 70 Lamentus 
• Lato - 150 Nacreous Pebbles 
• Lex - 50 Saggen Pearls 
• Magistar - 100 Aggristone 

[KIREEK]

2 hours ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Hey Tenno! The resource refund script for Incarnon installation cost reductions has completed! If you installed an Incarnon Genesis on the following weapons you will be receiving the listed refund: 

• Lato - 150 Nacreous Pebbles 

Tyvm, didn't know the refund was a thing. Cheers