What is “Soulsframe?”

[Felsagger]

4 hours ago, ant99999 said:

 

Why would I personally play something I am not satisfied with? Well because everything else is even worse. In a game industry where the prime motivator for a company to release and support a game is their profits, the chances of getting a game you truly enjoy with no conditions applied are practically non-existent.

 

Of course but there are few outstanding exceptions out there. 

In the end this converges how TENCENT guides their assets and how SONY, a game dedicated company and entertainment in general, guides their assets. Both methods produces ROI. Their methods has merits on their own rights. However Sony SIE focuses on QUALITY without forgetting that TENCENT has developers with good quality game products. This quality is reflected on each new product they INDUCES. Sony manages their developers in a healthy competition between each other and then each developer helps the other with the tools of success each developer achieves in their particular game. Guerrilla teaches, Kogima teaches, Insomniac game teaches and so on. Each new game is the sum of previous experiences. 

DE has potential to strive but somehow they find new ways to stay average. An example is the inclusion of more devices to their trajectory. This is what their boss asks them to do. Sony had a different vision of the game industry. They believe in diversity, replay value and more importantly, FUN. Their library is diverse for everyone. However they DO NOT STOP producing top quality single player games. This is their strongest approach. Sony does not discard genres. They seek the goal of trying them all and adapting throughout the ages. 

What would it be DE under the wing of SONY? What type of Warframe game we could have now? True, it never happened. This is the reality we have now. Shall I be miserable because I do not agree with the outcome? No. I simply point out that DE can do better. They have the strength to perform better and deliver a better outcome. This is why I write down such critiques. 

And yes, everything else is even worse of course there are a lot of exceptions out there that people should know. Horizon Zero franchise, Marvel's Spider Man franchise, God of War franchise. Batman Arkham knight, Ghost of Tsushima, Bloodborne, Elden Ring and few more such as Chrono Odyssey and so on. There is greener pasture in the horizon. Not everything is bad. Not everything is a failure. 

Warframe IS NOT  and NEVER WILL BE a failure but is AVERAGE. Is this a bad thing? Of course not. Many people are happy with it. But other people has standards. 

 

4 hours ago, ant99999 said:

 

Do I enjoy Warframe? Partly. I enjoy some parts of it, I hate other. Do I play it? Hell yeah, cause there isn't any game doing what Warframe's doing any better. In fact they're mostly much worse. Doesn't make Warframe a great game.

 

Completely agree. 

4 hours ago, ant99999 said:

 

My gaming preferences aren't that much of preferences, as they are choosing the lesser evil. And I am sure thus applies to most people in one way or another.

When Sony delivers a great product through their developers people celebrates. This should be the norm not the exception in this industry. 

This is why we should NEVER STOP demanding quality. We should stop being conformists with bread crumbs. 

Sony is far from being perfect. They have their mishaps too like everybody else. But when they deliver, they do it epicly. 

[Felsagger]

4 hours ago, CosmicHermitCrab said:

Also, if you play a game like Soulframe or Warframe on a phone, good luck with your battery life...

 

 

 

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF AN INTELLIGENT MAN. Take a look everybody. Look at him. He IS USING COMMON SENSE. 

 

See what an intelligent man looks like? 

 

Returning to the topic: What is Soulframe? 

 

A meme. DE can do better than this. 

[SneakyErvin]

On 2023-05-24 at 4:37 PM, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Rogue like has nothing to do with souls like games. The lock on mechanics literally mimics dark souls and there is a focus on smaller engagements unlike Warframe. As soon as the gameplay came out everyone noticed the similarities. So all of those people are full of bs? Also we still don't know the difficulty of souls frame so we can't use that as a deciding factor. At the very least, and there is alot more, souls frame heavily borrows the asthetics of it's obvious inspiration. Everyone is allowed their own opinion but a few of you seem to be in the minority. Even the name Soulframe is trying to capitalize on that soulslike idea.

No one said rogue likes have anything to do with souls games. I said Duviri is a rogue-lite-like. As to lock on mechanics, that isnt something unique to souls, or originated with souls, it has been around for many many many years prior to that. You have everything from tab-target MMOs to lock on action games. 

And regarding the part I bolded. You mean generic fantasy aestethics? Hopefully you do since there is nothing unique in the souls games that set them apart from generic (high) fantasy aestethics. Saying Soulframe borrowed from souls or ring is like saying the Witcher borrowed aestethics from Dark Age of Camelot since Geralts armor sets in TW3 can be seen nearly exactly identical on different classes in Dark Age of Camelot, although at much lower fidelity since the game is uhm 22 years old or something.

On 2023-05-24 at 8:41 PM, Stormandreas said:

Yes... it is... 

DE can claim it's not a soulslike till they are bluer than Ballas, what they have made is a Soulslike in all it's core mechanics. Z targetting, dodging with Iframes, Parry Windows, Enemies with Windup attacks that require appropriate actions to dodge or counter, and very likely, different weapon types that all use unique animations, thus all having different forms of parry windows, Hyper armour etc.

It is a soulslike. Soulslike isn't just hard bosses and environmental storytelling

You dont need to make use of any of that in Duviri to succeed, so Duviri isnt a souls like, because it doesnt come with stamina or punishing gameplay when you fail to do the things mentioned. All those things are part of nearly every single action game, what sets souls games apart is that they actually punish you when you dont use those mechanics. Duviri is just like the rest of WF, simple progression and nothing else. You unlock intrinsics and the Drifter melee you want, then you go out and spam normal or heavy attacks depending on the weapon, and do a special move as the thing is off cooldown. The use for rolling is to close gaps, and potentially exploit a certain decree, nothing more really. And this applies to Steel Path aswell.

I can honestly say I only use block due to 1 single thing, when the game demands it from me in order to advance a stage, like in the quest tutorial or when you need to stab the Dax on his horse until he falls off. For combat? #*!% no, why would I? And when it comes to lock on, I've only ever used it when the quest demanded me to. While doing Duviri content I never use it.

[Felsagger]

11 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

You dont need to make use of any of that in Duviri to succeed, so Duviri isnt a souls like, because it doesnt come with stamina or punishing gameplay when you fail to do the things mentioned. All those things are part of nearly every single action game, what sets souls games apart is that they actually punish you when you dont use those mechanics. Duviri is just like the rest of WF, simple progression and nothing else. You unlock intrinsics and the Drifter melee you want, then you go out and spam normal or heavy attacks depending on the weapon, and do a special move as the thing is off cooldown. The use for rolling is to close gaps, and potentially exploit a certain decree, nothing more really. And this applies to Steel Path aswell.

 

Ervin is right here. 

Duviri doesn't sum all the attributes of a soulslike game. 

 

DE can inspire themselves from From Software, Insomniac Games, Guerrilla Games for their creations. That's perfectly valid if DE adds their approach to it. 

[Hypernaut1]

7 hours ago, ant99999 said:

I feel I should comment on this specifically. And don't get me wrong I'm not defending any other Felsagger's points here (mainly because I'm not bothered to read through walls of text of varying degree of coherency), but this one I will.

Why would I personally play something I am not satisfied with? Well because everything else is even worse. In a game industry where the prime motivator for a company to release and support a game is their profits, the chances of getting a game you truly enjoy with no conditions applied are practically non-existant.

Do I enjoy Warframe? Partly. I enjoy some parts of it, I hate other. Do I play it? Hell yeah, cause there isn't any game doing what Warframe's doing any better. In fact they're mostly much worse. Doesn't make Warframe a great game.

My gaming preferences aren't that much of preferences, as they are choosing the lesser evil. And I am sure thus applies to most people in one way or another.

Ok. My mindset is different then. I can't continue to play a game I'm not satisfied with. No game is perfect, but I would just give up gaming or find another genre if nothing was satisfying to me. 

I'm looking forward to Soulframe. I don't care if it's a "souls -like" because I like soulslike games anyway. What matters is if I'm having fun playing it. Some people are desperate to hate on it before even playing it. Turning "souls-like" into a critique is just another arbitrary way to do that, so they latch onto it to try to prove some kind of point. The game is going to be similar to something either way. 

[schilds]

It's going to be a frame-lite game.

[vanaukas]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I can honestly say I only use block due to 1 single thing, when the game demands it from me in order to advance a stage, like in the quest tutorial or when you need to stab the Dax on his horse until he falls off. For combat? #*!% no, why would I? And when it comes to lock on, I've only ever used it when the quest demanded me to. While doing Duviri content I never use it.

You don't even need to perform the parry, you can stun the Dax with the Sirocco when it's casting abilities and it'll be open to finishers as well.

[Felsagger]

17 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Ok. My mindset is different then. I can't continue to play a game I'm not satisfied with. No game is perfect, but I would just give up gaming or find another genre if nothing was satisfying to me.

Hold it a minute here. 

You are free to have partialities. Yes you can totally like a game and simply find it suited for you. That is near a perfect game. But you may derive fun on games that are partial. It's an oddity to find a game that you like 100 percent. These cases are exceptions. They are diverse from person to person. 

If the game you like satisfy you then there is NO need to critique it. But you are free to use your judgment at any given time on the things you like AND dislike. That is perfectly reasonable. I do understand your brain wiring. I will NOT change it and no one SHOULD NOT change it either. 

17 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I'm looking forward to Soulframe. I don't care if it's a "souls -like" because I like soulslike games anyway.

And SIR, THAT IS A PERFECTLY REASONABLE argument. NO one will dare to debate that. 

17 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

What matters is if I'm having fun playing it. Some people are desperate to hate on it before even playing it.

Let me change the word here. JUDGE it. 

Why this happen? DE disclosed information. We form our judgements with the information given. 

Do you know that Horizon Forbidden West Burning Shore has boring parts too? Do you know that such game has bugs? Do you know that I disagree with many things that Guerrilla Games does? I perfectly understand when someone says that the AI of Horizon Zero enemies resembles a mouse under the influence of alcohol. It's exactly that. 

 

17 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Turning "souls-like" into a critique is just another arbitrary way to do that, so they latch onto it to try to prove some kind of point. The game is going to be similar to something either way. 

Correct. 

Horizon Zero Dawn is not a novelty. Daemon Souls, Dark Soul 1, Dark Soul 2, Dark Souls 3, Elden Ring, Bloodborne ARE NOT A NOVELTY. 

We should always ask what WE CAN LEARN from these games and what APPLIES to Warframe or Soulframe if THIS IS the case. 

 

 

25 minutes ago, schilds said:

It's going to be a frame-lite game.

 

That IS ABSOLUTELY correct. 

[SneakyErvin]

35 minutes ago, vanaukas said:

You don't even need to perform the parry, you can stun the Dax with the Sirocco when it's casting abilities and it'll be open to finishers as well.

True true. I just hate the clunky interaction around quick shot, it feels so unresponsive. There seems to also be the option to land a heavy attack as he casts, if that heavy attack also removes the last life from his bar you can finish him directly for that stage.

[Felsagger]

14 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

True true. I just hate the clunky interaction around quick shot, it feels so unresponsive. There seems to also be the option to land a heavy attack as he casts, if that heavy attack also removes the last life from his bar you can finish him directly for that stage.

Waiiit...

The conditions for parry can be explored AND extended in Duviri. I think that parry matters a lot for heavy attacks. I think that such mechanics should be added to Warframe on some circumstances. It's fun, provide a lot of replay value and experimentation. 

 

Edit: Doesn't have to follow the strict format of From Software. There are subtle ways to include CLEAN parry in this game. DE can find few interesting ways on implementing this. 

Capcom worked this idea of parry in interesting ways in Street Fighter 6. Of course that's something else but it's just a DISTANT example. 

 

[SneakyErvin]

16 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Waiiit...

The conditions for parry can be explored AND extended in Duviri. I think that parry matters a lot for heavy attacks. I think that such mechanics should be added to Warframe on some circumstances. It's fun, provide a lot of replay value and experimentation. 

 

Edit: Doesn't have to follow the strict format of From Software. There are subtle ways to include CLEAN parry in this game. DE can find few interesting ways on implementing this. 

Capcom worked this idea of parry in interesting ways in Street Fighter 6. Of course that's something else but it's just a DISTANT example. 

 

But I'm not even talking about parry. Q U I C K S H O T, that is not how parry is spelled. P A R R Y, that is how you spell parry. A mechanic that actually feels smooth and responsive.

Quick shot = Clunky.

Parry = Smooth.

[Zimzala]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Ok. My mindset is different then. I can't continue to play a game I'm not satisfied with. No game is perfect, but I would just give up gaming or find another genre if nothing was satisfying to me. 

I'm looking forward to Soulframe. I don't care if it's a "souls -like" because I like soulslike games anyway. What matters is if I'm having fun playing it. Some people are desperate to hate on it before even playing it. Turning "souls-like" into a critique is just another arbitrary way to do that, so they latch onto it to try to prove some kind of point. The game is going to be similar to something either way. 

I agree with this outlook.

I think the entire idea of playing a game because it's the 'lesser evil' is irrational and negatively impacts mental fitness.

If there are no games I want to play, then I do something else, I don't pick the game I dislike the least - it's not a Job, it's a way to spend leisure time.

For example, I played Horizon Zero Dawn for about 45 minutes and uninstalled. Same with so many other other games the 'masses' seem to love, I find no entertainment in them, just chore-based gameplay and punishment for not doing the chores in the right way.

That does not make me think, "oh I need to go tell HZD players they are doing it wrong", it just makes me realize I should find a different game. It does not make me think I need to take the developer of the game "to task" in some mis-guided attempt to parent a game company or it's players.

Games are for Entertainment.

It's true that some people like to be punished as entertainment. It's true that some people like learning "square dancing" routines to defeat bosses as entertainment. Both of those gaming aspects hold no entertainment for me, personally, nor do I need others to tell me what I 'should' and 'should not' accept in games as acceptable entertainment, I can do that on my own without nit-picking the tiny details of a game looking for something to 'ding' the developer about in some attempt to make myself seem smarter than the community.

The armchair developer critics come and go, thinking they are saving teh world, when, in fact, they are simply wasting time they could be spending doing things other than acting like they are martyring themselves by playing 'bad' games to "save the gaming world" from itself.

Much of this is just human nature based, the individuals to whom I refer can change their brain chemistry no more than I can - they are who they are, they do what they do - just I as I am who I am do what I do - the Internet is powered by Hate and Angst of gamers IME.

[Corvid]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But I'm not even talking about parry. Q U I C K S H O T, that is not how parry is spelled. P A R R Y, that is how you spell parry. A mechanic that actually feels smooth and responsive.

Quick shot = Clunky.

Parry = Smooth.

Personally, I think quick shot would feel better if there was a window after firing where you could follow up with subsequent shots, rather than having to wait for what feels like an arbitrary delay.

[Felsagger]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But I'm not even talking about parry. Q U I C K S H O T, that is not how parry is spelled. P A R R Y, that is how you spell parry. A mechanic that actually feels smooth and responsive.

I got that. But I think that I'm heading towards the development of parry on itself. Your argument in that post made sense. I took that as a subject switch for how parry could be developed for further implementations. 

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Quick shot = Clunky.

Parry = Smooth.

That's true. No objection with that. 

[SneakyErvin]

20 minutes ago, Corvid said:

Personally, I think quick shot would feel better if there was a window after firing where you could follow up with subsequent shots, rather than having to wait for what feels like an arbitrary delay.

Yep, that would very likely solve it.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

 I think the entire idea of playing a game because it's the 'lesser evil' is irrational and negatively impacts mental fitness.

If there are no games I want to play, then I do something else, I don't pick the game I dislike the least - it's not a Job, it's a way to spend leisure time.

This is a subject of preferences. 

 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

For example, I played Horizon Zero Dawn for about 45 minutes and uninstalled. Same with so many other other games the 'masses' seem to love, I find no entertainment in them, just chore-based gameplay and punishment for not doing the chores in the right way.

Those games are not for you 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

That does not make me think, "oh I need to go tell HZD players they are doing it wrong", it just makes me realize I should find a different game. It does not make me think I need to take the developer of the game "to task" in some mis-guided attempt to parent a game company or it's players.

That's true. 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

Games are for Entertainment.

 

FInally, DISCOVERED THAT EARTH IS NOT ROUND. Earth is a GEOID. 

That's a good display of intelligence. Baby steps should be celebrated when you pick the right rail. 

 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

It's true that some people like to be punished as entertainment. It's true that some people like learning "square dancing" routines to defeat bosses as entertainment. Both of those gaming aspects hold no entertainment for me, personally, nor do I need others to tell me what I 'should' and 'should not' accept in games as acceptable entertainment, I can do that on my own without nit-picking the tiny details of a game looking for something to 'ding' the developer about in some attempt to make myself seem smarter than the community.

There is a fundamental problem with this reasoning. 

 

Challenge is not a punishment in a video game. Challenge is an option that the player wants for his/her entertainment. 

 

If Zimzala, or whatever that alternate account name is pronounced, don't like a hard game then the option of putting it aside is always there. You choose your type of entertainment. 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

The armchair developer critics come and go, thinking they are saving teh world, when, in fact, they are simply wasting time they could be spending doing things other than acting like they are martyring themselves by playing 'bad' games to "save the gaming world" from itself.

This reasoning is equivocated. This is why:

No one here is arm chairing DE. I am NOT a developer. I can't think, act or behave as a developer. I critique as a player. This is MY role, MY position and MY point of view on these matters. 

I don't tell an architect how to make axonometrics or three point perspectives for the building I ask him to design and draw. I don't tell an architect how to place their drainage in their buildings. Those are their jobs. I as a user will critique them if my room has percolations. 

 

See? 

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

Much of this is just human nature based, the individuals to whom I refer can change their brain chemistry no more than I can - they are who they are, they do what they do - just I as I am who I am do what I do - the Internet is powered by Hate and Angst of gamers IME.

Wait, are you a Doctor in Neurology? Do you know about brain chemistry and how the brain operates? Do you know about cognitive science either? 

If not then don't speak about things YOU DO NOT KNOW. You are not the measure for the standard and existence of other individuals. 

Thank you. 

[Zimzala]

21 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

If not then don't speak about things YOU DO NOT KNOW. You are not the measure for the standard and existence of other individuals. 

Take your own advice.

You have no clue as to who I am or what I know, any more than I know you or what you know, yet at most every turn, you claim superiority in knowledge, it's hilariously hypocritical. 

You and your outlooks and experiences are not anything with which to use to measure others, either, with your assumptive talk about 'challenge', for example. It just shows your passive-aggressive attempts to claim what you prefer is more 'challenging', vindicate your outlook. It's hilariously transparent.

The phrase I used was, specific - "armchair developer critics", not "armchair developers". You can try and wiggle out of that moniker all you like, but from my POV it's dead-accurate, or you would not have piped up about it. 🤣 Unless, of course, you get paid by someone for all the critiques you post here? You are, as you acknowledge, just another consumer of the product with no control over it's direction that has decided to act like a critic, thinking you can 'save' us with your wisdom. Unless you get paid to do that, you are just another armchair developer critic, professionals get paid.

You even love to point out to others that this is not a place to be perfect with language and specifics, because it's not a Job or an Exam, yet you love to nit-pick.

So easily triggered into hypocrisy. Let me know when you become a Doctor of Video Game Company Management so you can talk about it. 😉

As I have stated, many times, I know you won't shut up about it, and water makes things wet, you are who your are, I have used your posts here as a meme-level example on several occasions now. Please, carry on!

On topic, I will continue to watch and see if Soulframe is a fun game for me to play, just as I pick up Warframe when I like. Not having played any of the 'souls' games and having a memory much longer then their existence, I will still judge Soulframe on it's own ability to entertain me an nothing more, just as I do all games., as all of them just recycle anyway.

Happy Gaming.

[Felsagger]

23 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Take your own advice.

You have no clue as to who I am or what I know, any more than I know you or what you know, yet at most every turn, you claim superiority in knowledge, it's hilariously hypocritical. 

You and your outlooks and experiences are not anything with which to use to measure others, either, with your assumptive talk about 'challenge', for example. It just shows your passive-aggressive attempts to claim what you prefer is more 'challenging', vindicate your outlook. It's hilariously transparent.

The phrase I used was, specific - "armchair developer critics", not "armchair developers". You can try and wiggle out of that moniker all you like, but from my POV it's dead-accurate, or you would not have piped up about it. 🤣 Unless, of course, you get paid by someone for all the critiques you post here? You are, as you acknowledge, just another consumer of the product with no control over it's direction that has decided to act like a critic, thinking you can 'save' us with your wisdom. Unless you get paid to do that, you are just another armchair developer critic, professionals get paid.

You even love to point out to others that this is not a place to be perfect with language and specifics, because it's not a Job or an Exam, yet you love to nit-pick.

So easily triggered into hypocrisy. Let me know when you become a Doctor of Video Game Company Management so you can talk about it. 😉

As I have stated, many times, I know you won't shut up about it, and water makes things wet, you are who your are, I have used your posts here as a meme-level example on several occasions now. Please, carry on!

 

Your antiques and theatrics are entertaining but let us get into the content of your post. 

1. This is completely offtopic. 

2. This is a tirade about a member. 

3. This has nothing to do with the subject being discussed here. 

That alone makes your post SPAM because you are condemning me for the thing you are doing here. Keep in mind that I am not even using the word hypocrite. I don't rant about other members as you do with this alternate account.  Looks like you have some sort of immunity to forum rules that the rest of us humans don't have on these forums with your alternate rant account. 

But I'm not here to humiliate you.  However this is not the purpose of such boards. I'm going to discuss one of your claims for educational purposes. 

 

Let us discuss your content. 

 

23 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

On topic, I will continue to watch and see if Soulframe is a fun game for me to play, just as I pick up Warframe when I like.

That's perfectly valid. People seek their interests. 

23 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Not having played any of the 'souls' games and having a memory much longer then their existence, I will still judge Soulframe on it's own ability to entertain me an nothing more

But not everybody has your experience or backlog of played games.  

23 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

, just as I do all games., as all of them just recycle anyway.

How can you say that? Have you played them? NO

See the problem with this reasoning? 

23 minutes ago, Zimzala said:

Happy Gaming.

The irony is way too strong on these words. But, it's good enough for me. 

Edit: 

If YOU WANT to improve a game, any game, you must start pointing out where the game can improve. Remember this is a player assisted model. 

[Zimzala]

37 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

If YOU WANT to improve a game, any game, you must start pointing out where the game can improve. Remember this is a player assisted model. 

The fact that you actually think this is true is the fun part! The game is at best occasionally influenced by it's consumers. The fact DE has gotten people to think the userbase 'assists' in the way you imply is a PR win, that's for sure.

The fact that you think I am a sock puppet for some other account is really funny, as it seems to be your 'go-to' accusation lately for anyone that decides to disagree, over calling them dumb or irrational. Anything you can post that you think will undermine the words of another poster seem to be fair game for you. It's transparent. For grins, what's you conspiracy theory here? In the words of Jackie Chan, "Who Am I?" 🤣

Good luck with those windmills, Dr. Video Game!

Ideas at this point in human evolution are pretty much all recycled. Every new generation of humans thinks they invented everything, just part of the human condition. Video games, like all entertainment, just cannibalize and recycle the same formulas, this is not some big secret or revelation, it's just the state of the world. If you think trying to tell me that since I have not played all videos games that I am therefore not allowed to make this observation, I'll just be over here laughing some more.

Take Soulframe for example. Just like it's predecessors, there are things like enemies to fight, stats to tweak and loot to acquire. There will be a story, attack mechanics, some form of advancement. The only question is, when the recycled ideas are mixed together, will it blend? Will is be a delicious milkshake, or will it be some abomination of anchovies and pineapple pizza? That's all that matters, is how the recycled ideas are put together. Since some people are lactose intolerant but love pineapple and anchovies, while I love milkshakes, no one will be 'right' or 'wrong' about their opinions on if the recycled elements blend well.

Somewhere, someone will make it their life's work to tear the game apart, into tiny pieces they can then hold up as 'slaps in the face', because of some number being .0001% less than another. It's as inevitable as it hilarious and sad as it's already happening before the game has even arrived.

I am hopeful DE has another successful hit with Soulframe. Perhaps they can even convince it's early players they helped improve it when it's 10 years old! 🤣

[Mediloric]

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

The fact that you think I am a sock puppet for some other account is really funny, as it seems to be your 'go-to' accusation lately for anyone that decides to disagree, over calling them dumb or irrational.

It's really sad honestly. Almost embarrassing... They are just proving me right nearly every single time now. I hope they take a break cause this ain't healthy. 

On topic slightly though: despite the... well, you know who. the discussion here has actually opened my eye to some things. Not all I agree with, but for sure parts I can't really ignore going into Soulframes gameplay. 

I don't agree with the comparison to Souls-like games though I can totally see where it's been got from... I think it's really easy to paint over a game as a soulslike if only a couple of elements are similar. I can see why it's said, but I still don't think it's correct and that's fine. 

That said, I wasn't totally convinced that Durivi was a prototype for Soulframe till a few people pointed some key details and I really can't say it isn't now. it certainly feels like a testing ground and I'm not exactly sure that's a good thing? 

[Hypernaut1]

3 hours ago, Zimzala said:

The fact that you think I am a sock puppet for some other account is really funny...

...Especially since they themselves post from an alt account with like 50hrs logged.

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

2 hours ago, Mediloric said:

That said, I wasn't totally convinced that Durivi was a prototype for Soulframe till a few people pointed some key details and I really can't say it isn't now. it certainly feels like a testing ground and I'm not exactly sure that's a good thing? 

I would say it's more likely that while working on Duviri the old team wanted to expand on it so they got the basics of Duviri and are going to make a game with those. 

[Mediloric]

4 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

I would say it's more likely that while working on Duviri the old team wanted to expand on it so they got the basics of Duviri and are going to make a game with those. 

So using it as a starting point? Makes sense, iron out the basics in the Durivi and expand on it heavily for Soulframe? That's what you mean right? 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

13 minutes ago, Mediloric said:

So using it as a starting point? Makes sense, iron out the basics in the Durivi and expand on it heavily for Soulframe? That's what you mean right? 

Yes

[Felsagger]

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

The fact that you actually think this is true is the fun part! The game is at best occasionally influenced by it's consumers. The fact DE has gotten people to think the userbase 'assists' in the way you imply is a PR win, that's for sure.

I know it isn't. If DE can't provide the quality I'm looking for, don't worry I know who can. Do you want migration of clients towards other products and experiences?

 

Next. 

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

The fact that you think I am a sock puppet for some other account is really funny

You put a good effort on being one to the point of making it believable. 

Next. 

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

, as it seems to be your 'go-to' accusation lately for anyone that decides to disagree, over calling them dumb or irrational. Anything you can post that you think will undermine the words of another poster seem to be fair game for you. It's transparent. For grins, what's you conspiracy theory here? In the words of Jackie Chan, "Who Am I?" 🤣

Can DE pull off the numbers of views that Spiderman 2 video did in just 2 days? 

6.3 millions of views in 2 days. Do you know why  such numbers happens? Can Warframe be this popular? 

Can Warframe enjoy this type of popularity? What Spiderman and Spiderman Miles Miles morales did right? 

Next. 

 

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Good luck with those windmills, Dr. Video Game!

What Insomniac Games, Guerrilla Games and Santa Monica Studio are doing right? 

Why every time they announce their game and the game play they get success? 

Can you guess what they are doing right? 

Next. 

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Ideas at this point in human evolution are pretty much all recycled.

Are we talking about human evolution or are we talking about a video game and the respective attributes? 

Is there a product similar to Horizon Forbidden West? No. That alone throw away your theory. What makes a product unique is the conjugation of ideas, the delivery of quality and the mechanics of game play. Horizon Forbidden west has that. Spiderman has that. God of War IV has that. These games focuses on certain attributes providing a unique experience. 

If we use the rubric you propose here then Warframe has everything recycled. According to that logic we know that Warframe has some distinctive ideas that makes the game unique. That Rubric of yours doesn't fly. You should try another theory. 

Next. 

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Every new generation of humans thinks they invented everything, just part of the human condition. Video games, like all entertainment, just cannibalize and recycle the same formulas, this is not some big secret or revelation, it's just the state of the world. If you think trying to tell me that since I have not played all videos games that I am therefore not allowed to make this observation, I'll just be over here laughing some more.

Have you seen the formula of FEZ? Where FEZ takes their ideas from? Is there any other game like FEZ? What makes FEZ unique is the combination of ideas. 

What makes Horizon Zero Formula unique? Have you seen that approach in any other game? Have you seen separate attributes in other games? Yes. Have you seen the combination of such ideas elsewhere? No. 

With the idea of cannibalism you can't explain evolution. That alone throws away your theory.  What you have are combinations and permutations of attributes. Emergent ideas happens through combinatorics. Adaptation is another force that motivates combinatorics. The combinatorics of these decisions makes games different despite if your set of games belongs to the same genre. 

Let us try that idea with Call of Duty and Titanfall 2. Both games are shooters, Both games have the basic mechanics of aim and basic 3D movement. Why these two games are different? The idea here is momentum mechanics and lurching. See why the idea of cannibalism doesn't work? 

The idea of cannibalism is completely shallow if we consider evolution. Adaptation is a force of nature. Adaptation to a certain context is a force that happens in design and adaptation is a force that generates variations even if the subjects of study are similar. 

The idea of cannibalism doesn't fly. Sorry. 

Next. 

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Take Soulframe for example. Just like it's predecessors, there are things like enemies to fight, stats to tweak and loot to acquire. There will be a story, attack mechanics, some form of advancement. The only question is, when the recycled ideas are mixed together, will it blend? Will is be a delicious milkshake, or will it be some abomination of anchovies and pineapple pizza? That's all that matters, is how the recycled ideas are put together. Since some people are lactose intolerant but love pineapple and anchovies, while I love milkshakes, no one will be 'right' or 'wrong' about their opinions on if the recycled elements blend well.

But that's exactly why Insomniac Games, Guerrilla Games, Santa Monica Studio, Kojima Studio, Sucker Punch are great developers. They get their combinatorics of ideas right. Why? Implementation, integration and polishing. 

What DE is missing in their process? The problem that DE has is how they cling on trends being the jack of all trades master of none. They abandon their ideas half the way. DE wants to diversify so much that they dissipates because they consider too many variables. Other developers focuses on certain attributes and stick to their formula until the end. In other words DE needs consistency. 

An example. Railjack. DE had a great idea for Railjack conjugating many known ideas for it but they ended up with 30 percent of what they wanted to do. Now let us think about Guerrilla Games. GG tried to change their market by doing something different other than Killzone 1, Killzone 2, Killzone 3 Shadow Fall. They proposed an idea of combining hunting, resource collecting, RPG, action adventure and boss fights? What they got? Horizon Zero Franchise. They achieved 100 percent of their goal defining something completely new. They completed their idea. Up to now still some functions of Railjack that DE proposed never arrived. 

What Guerrilla games did right? CONSISTENCY. 

Next. 

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Somewhere, someone will make it their life's work to tear the game apart,

The critique that we have about DE is CONSISTENCY and COMPLETION. DE is critiqued harshly because they abandon their ideas half way. For example Kdrives, Modular Arch wings, the modular orbiter and nechramechs. Of course these ideas are not new. Every developer uses ideas from other games. But good developers DO NOT abandon their ideas. Good developers are consistent and committed. 

This is the main critique that is being developed here. If DE do not change their approach to development they are going repeat the same habits they had with Warframe. In other words Soulframe will become the same cycle of bugs, content islands and incomplete ideas that Warframe had during the last ten years. This is the main critique that many veterans formulated about Warframe for the last ten years. 

Next. 

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

into tiny pieces they can then hold up as 'slaps in the face', because of some number being .0001% less than another. It's as inevitable as it hilarious and sad as it's already happening before the game has even arrived.

Presentation matters. 

When the first video of Soulframe arrived, many people BELIEVED THAT DE WAS MAKING FUN of ELDEN RING. Many thought that such game was a satire or a meme. 

Next. 

4 hours ago, Zimzala said:

I am hopeful DE has another successful hit with Soulframe. Perhaps they can even convince it's early players they helped improve it when it's 10 years old! 🤣

 Have you seen the game to declare it a successful hit? 

 

Do you see me declaring Spiderman 2 a successful hit? NO

See the problem with that theory of yours and why it is flawed? 

Next. 

 

Done. 

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

...Especially since they themselves post from an alt account with like 50hrs logged.

It's easy to take out one g out of my name and find my PS4 account. 

Try again.