Talking about AFK and specters

[Zeliphar]

Hi everyone ! I have several questions about specters and "afk playstyle" .

i recognize , i am definitely the most bad exemple for this.

I love the idea of "something do the things for you"so when il launch a survival/defense.

(because i don't like running like a rabbit in a map for open relic .Im satisfy when i see my specter obliterate all life form in the vinicity.)

But i have several problems with that :

- You can't mod weapon specter ,is understandable , you have the crew mate for this.

- But... the crew mate and other specter have 0 accuracy. I got the mod for ocucor , and trying on my crew mate. He manage to miss with a gun who fire in continuity , i laugh , and finally cry.

- Specter need ammunition ??? Just why ? I think you can pick up ammunition. I don't use that much my primary weapons , and the function look awful even in the paper

- AI with 0 adaptability...When you play against infested , if he manage to rush your crewship member...Is finish , he will no more attack. (yep 1 range weapon , no melee avaible) 

- Kahl crewship member scale with mission level , but not with the duration. When the monster is level 400 , your kahlcrew stay lv 100 and deal no more damage

I know DE don't like this playstyle, but we exist after all. If we got proper tools , we can play like we want without pressure. When you like to play support/"minions damage dealer" why we get insult from other member ? 

When i was masteries 10-15, i remember someone want to me i disconnect from the index. I playing banshee full supp strenght range , and he will not understand why i run from energy pod to another energy pod. I don't understand where the rage come from...

Please don't be rude or just trash , i just want to say my opinion , kiss =)

[ant99999]

56 minutes ago, Zeliphar said:

I know DE don't like this playstyle

That's the answer to your questions. Whether you like it or not, DE doesn't like players being AFK, and they try their best to discourage it.

That's why specters use ammo, that's why they have poor accuracy, and almost every other point you've listed - they are all most likely conscious desicisions on DE's part to prevent specters from being able to fully replace the player.

[(PSN)rexis12]

7 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

Whether you like it or not, DE doesn't like players being AFK, and they try their best to discourage it.

Honestly they'd probably get better mileage if they incentivise active gameplay.

[BroDutt]

2 hours ago, Zeliphar said:

When i was masteries 10-15, i remember someone want to me i disconnect from the index. I playing banshee full supp strenght range , and he will not understand why i run from energy pod to another energy pod. I don't understand where the rage come from...

Can you tell me what part of support is this? The poin of index is to score as many poin (or if you have dedicated grup) collect poin for the next wave. And prevent enemies from scoring one. The energy pod in index didn't generate for each player, if you pick it up everytime it's regenerate, others can't pick it up .

Edited June 16, 2023 by BroDutt

[ant99999]

14 minutes ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

Honestly they'd probably get better mileage if they incentivise active gameplay.

True. But every time I look at how affinity distribution works I lose any hope in DE knowing how to encourage active gameplay.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

"If the rabbit doesn't run, it can get greedy and fat, and easy prey to the snake. Don't become lunch to the snake, a little hopping and light movement here and there is good for the rabbit. Spectres are like tools, they are not real the same way the rabbit or snake are, they can help the rabbit, but they should never replace the rabbit." - Lola Bunny 1324. 

[Zeliphar]

il y a 8 minutes, BroDutt a dit :

Can you tell me what part of support is this? The poin of index is to score as many poin (or if you have dedicated grup) collect poin for the next wave. And prevent enemies from scoring one. The energy pod in index didn't generate for each player, if you pick it up everytime it's regenerate, others can't pick it up .

Is simple , is useless to have 4 rhino/revenant in the same index , so i picking banshee , for spamm my sonar and make the enemy corpus more easy to kill

He just trashtalk me with the same idea you have, "Banshee did nothing , so i will trash" but didn't realise is 10K damage turn into 100K+

[(PSN)rexis12]

17 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

True. But every time I look at how affinity distribution works I lose any hope in DE knowing how to encourage active gameplay.

It's weird.

Harrow is right there, it would not take much to just copy the overall reward for that Frame to most of the content.

Higher drop rates of materials and mod on headshots, disable the headshot bonus on Specters and whatnot.

I mean, it's not like it's not in the system already. Eximus units do not drop Health and Energy orbs if they're killed by Specters or Shadows, so just bring that in the main game and reward players for being active.

I'm still peeved how, if you're TOO active vs Acolytes or if you use you agility against them, they decide to yoink you with their instant undodgable unavoidable teleport.

Like. Thanks, guess I'll just use DR and Melee Spam then.

[ReddyDisco]

1 hour ago, Zeliphar said:

i laugh , and finally cry.

[Zeliphar]

who care about ressources when the only think you need is open relic ? if they launch a game mode with 0 ressources but open 3 relics , i will jump in like a cat in a box

[MqToasty]

3 hours ago, Zeliphar said:

I know DE don't like this playstyle, but we exist after all. If we got proper tools , we can play like we want without pressure. When you like to play support/"minions damage dealer" why we get insult from other member ? 

Well, that's your answer right there. You know DE is actively discouraging AFK, so obviously they are not going to buff specters. If anything, they will nerf specters even more.

While I respect your desire for AFK gameplay, I wholeheartedly support DE's decision to discourage and punish it with nerfs and penalties. I cannot stand leechers who stand around while other players do the work, and hope DE will implement even stricter anti-AFK mechanisms.

[trst]

The game just got it's biggest review bomb a few months ago for specifically nerfing that exact playstyle (that's when Specter ammo, Wukong, and AOE weapons were all "nerfed").

And considering the devs didn't back down at all when faced with over 13,000 negative reviews over that exact update, and they were considering the possibility of more nerfs, I don't think they'll be at all inclined to give any of that power back. Plus it's still not out of the question for them to still add those additional nerfs.

So if anything I'd be prepared for your "playstyle" to get weaker in the future and for the devs to discard any feedback to the contrary.

[Zeliphar]

is sad to take for all who want to play actively , when the game just become boring and boring. like duviri farm

[(PSN)robotwars7]

8 hours ago, Zeliphar said:

- But... the crew mate and other specter have 0 accuracy. I

that's why you give them a decent shotgun, then they don't need to be accurate, because multishot will do the rest. personally I gave mine the Tigris Prime and she's taken down Acolyte's single handedly.

8 hours ago, Zeliphar said:

Specter need ammunition ??? Just why ?

this is mainly a contingency for AoE weapons, other weapons usually have a big enough ammo pool to not have to worry about running out.

8 hours ago, Zeliphar said:

AI with 0 adaptability...When you play against infested , if he manage to rush your crewship member...Is finish , he will no more attack. (yep 1 range weapon , no melee avaible) 

they aren't trained in the ways of the Tenno, so they don't have the ability to wield swords etc. as we do. they could still have a basic melee attack though, even if it's just using a Sheev/Prova like disarmed mobs do.

either way, "DPS minions" are something of a sore point for DE as it goes against their own ideas for the game.

[(NSW)Greybones]

You’re actually in better company than you may think in terms of being judged for an AFK playstyle.

Zero-effort reward is kind of a thing that many players actively chase and will recommend others chase as well (often to their own detriment), even though often they’re just filling out a sort of check-list for completionism’s sake

[Zeliphar]

Il y a 4 heures, (NSW)Greybones a dit :

You’re actually in better company than you may think in terms of being judged for an AFK playstyle.

Zero-effort reward is kind of a thing that many players actively chase and will recommend others chase as well (often to their own detriment), even though often they’re just filling out a sort of check-list for completionism’s sake

i think half of the topic judge me xD

[Tiltskillet]

4 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

that's why you give them a decent shotgun, then they don't need to be accurate, because multishot will do the rest. personally I gave mine the Tigris Prime and she's taken down Acolyte's single handedly.

I haven't tested this with shotguns, but I would expect specters to be oblivious to falloff issues the same as they are perfectly happy to shoot at targets outside of certain beam weapons' range.

Obviously not a big problem with some shotguns, and can be more than made up for by  their advantages.  But something to keep in mind when choosing which one to use.

[Tiltskillet]

13 hours ago, Zeliphar said:

Specter need ammunition ??? Just why ?

Because of players who want to play the same way you do, basically.  :P DE doesnt like people playing afk and introduced that specter limitation around the same general time as a bunch of other changes to limit automated gameplay.

 

[Skoomaseller]

I think people are misusing the term "afk" a lot here.

The correct term is "automation". by summoning a spectre to do the work for you, you are automating the portion of gameplay that wants player input.

DE is very against this, so they've taken many steps to ensure that this does not become a totally viable play-style... despite introducing such a thing into the game in the first place, lol.

Honestly though you can safely ignore the whining from your squad, as long as you are actually interacting with the game (i.e. reviving your teammates, playing the objective, being responsive, etc).

as for your Index incident... I see you ran high range sonar banshee. It's unfortunate that you ran into such players, since sonar banshee is a completely valid playstyle. Old and outdated yes perhaps, but not useless at all.

Sorry you had to run into those players, and hopefully your next index run isn't so sour.

[Zeliphar]

il y a 1 minute, Skoomaseller a dit :

I think people are misusing the term "afk" a lot here.

The correct term is "automation". by summoning a spectre to do the work for you, you are automating the portion of gameplay that wants player input.

DE is very against this, so they've taken many steps to ensure that this does not become a totally viable play-style... despite introducing such a thing into the game in the first place, lol.

Honestly though you can safely ignore the whining from your squad, as long as you are actually interacting with the game (i.e. reviving your teammates, playing the objective, being responsive, etc).

as for your Index incident... I see you ran high range sonar banshee. It's unfortunate that you ran into such players, since sonar banshee is a completely valid playstyle. Old and outdated yes perhaps, but not useless at all.

Sorry you had to run into those players, and hopefully your next index run isn't so sour.

Im actually legendary 3 , this thing happens to me 4-5 years ago , in my early stage of the game

[Skoomaseller]

2 minutes ago, Zeliphar said:

Im actually legendary 3 , this thing happens to me 4-5 years ago , in my early stage of the game

Ah I see. sadly my point about automation stands, it's not something DE wants to be "viable."

[Zeliphar]

yeah , but 4 years ago ,you can see player who trash talk like this, only because of the incapacity of understand the point of view of the others

i don't really understand the witch hunter about the "automation", and i say nothing when a see a guy jump like a raving rabbids with is plague kripath X)

[(PSN)rexis12]

DE wants to avoid 'automation' because it paints an even clearer picture of the sad state of balance in the game, that can be hidden when players play the few frames that require movement and 'skill'.

Nevermind how Rhino, Nezha, and Revenant all exist. With the former two being some of the earliest and also some of the highest played Frames. And the latter having to be panicked buffed because DE realised too late that the Eximus nerfed him too close to his Prime Release, and turned what used to be a pretty active playstyle of managing Mesmer Skin, into an 'Invincible' button.

Honestly I still stand that the issue is due to the lack of actual reward in playing actively and playing with skill. The few times active gameplay is rewarded, it's Through Mods like the Blood for [x] series of Parazon Mods, or they have dumb RNG % to reward you for it like Pistoleer and Victory.

It's hard to feel rewarded when the game decides when you reward you by rolling a god damn dice to decide if you putting in effort and skill in your gameplay warrants a reward to further incentives you to do so.

[Zeliphar]

mesmer skin was always a "invincible" spell :o

[(PSN)rexis12]

Just now, Zeliphar said:

mesmer skin was always a "invincible" spell :o

Yeah, but not the extent of it now.

Hell, I'd say that old Mesmer Skin, at Steel Path especially, could be equated to Harrows Condemn. You have to keep the stacks up, pay attention when you get a lot of them lost due to high enemy density and either Reave or Recast it.

Now you just kind of count down, like other Duration abilities except it has even more lee way.

Personally I don't mind it, I want it to stay and be a monument of DE panic nerfing and not even thinking of the results of the changes that they implement in their game.

 

Besides, it's not like DE actually cares about implementing active gameplay. Considering that Styanax's Cancel out of 4 Bug was removed, despite the fact that something like that should've been leaned into.