New protea augment [Temporal Erosion] is kind of bad

[GPrime96]

10 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Stapling some armor strip to it just seems like a blatant attempt on DE's part to get us to use this neglected ability that was probably incredibly expensive to create. 

And her Blaze Artillery wouldn’t be at the same TTK without grouping up with ensare when using the armor strip from her 4 (seriously, with nearly max duration, + Duration Shards, grouping and nuking 20 SP lvl 195 Juggernaut Behemoths in 10 seconds with just one turret is so satisfying). Although if someone is using her in a Interception, her 4’s augment might make a difference. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by GPrime96

[pisces13]

5 hours ago, Zeclem said:

the augment "literally" does not give you any layer of protection, it just gives you armor strip. and if you just want armor strip, there are better skills. styanax's 2 does it way quicker, heals you (which procs the archon strength mod) and also removes shields. fireblast, terrify and pillage or some other options as well, and none of these require a mod slot to actually do it and are way cheaper on your energy stores. you can have your turrets kill those bombards way quicker with these options and won't need to deal with the weirdly off place ability that is temporal anchor. 

"not needing helminth" is not really an advantage either. its just another feature of the game. 

Excuse me. The augment does not give the layer of protection. The 4th ability does. Regardless of that terrify doesn't strip acolytes. Fire blast is whack and knocks enemies away. Styanax skill range is much too small. Pillage requires too much ability strength. Her augment works just fine where it is without relying on terrify or any enemy grouping ability.

 

And you scrubs love protea so much, but ignore the fact TEMPORAL ANCHOR CAN BE CANCELED BEFORE IT REWINDS. Complain more please.

Edited August 2, 2023 by pisces13

[pisces13]

1 hour ago, GPrime96 said:

And her Blaze Artillery wouldn’t be at the same TTK without grouping up with ensare when using the armor strip from her 4 (seriously, with nearly max duration, + Duration Shards, grouping and nuking 20 SP lvl 195 Juggernaut Behemoths in 5 - 6 seconds with just one turret is so satisfying). Although if someone is using her in a Interception, her 4’s augment might make a difference. 

Blaze artillery combined with the grenades have fast TTK. Thats the whole point of the augment. Slap panzer vulpa or epitaph and you got yourself 400k heat procs with 1 or 2 shots from blaze artillery. Its almost like you guys haven't bothered making nice builds.

[GPrime96]

1 hour ago, pisces13 said:

Blaze artillery combined with the grenades have fast TTK. Thats the whole point of the augment. Slap panzer vulpa or epitaph and you got yourself 400k heat procs with 1 or 2 shots from blaze artillery. Its almost like you guys haven't bothered making nice builds.

Except the grenades provide very little or next to no DPS benefits and only there to keep you and the team shield gated. So it’s like she have no other option than her turrets for main DPS which ramps up much faster with grouping.

[emmyemi]

Just now, GPrime96 said:

Except the grenades provide very little or next to no DPS benefits and only there to keep you and the team shield gated. So it’s like she have no other option than her turrets for main DPS which ramps up much faster with grouping.

Her slash grenades provide CC in a very large range, allowing you to basically trap enemies inside corridors and other choke points for easy turret scaling. They're also insanely cheap, meaning you can spam them everywhere and not even really need to worry about modding range because you can easily cover large areas by just casting it multiple times.

With the augment those grenades also strip armor. 22% on my current build, so ~5 hits to fully strip, but that is not taking into account the extra 85% STR from Growing Power + Molt Something-Or-Other, which would likely reduce it to 3–4 hits for a full armor strip.

You might say "that's nothing!" but keep in mind that if you're actually utilizing her kit, you're probably already going to be dropping grenades around entry points and putting up turrets to blast enemies as soon as they come around. Everything about this setup is already in alignment with how her kit "wants" to be played. The only change here is that you now have a reason to use her 4 when dealing with more powerful enemies.

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, pisces13 said:

Blaze artillery combined with the grenades have fast TTK. Thats the whole point of the augment. Slap panzer vulpa or epitaph and you got yourself 400k heat procs with 1 or 2 shots from blaze artillery. Its almost like you guys haven't bothered making nice builds.

Jeez you sure are hostile. Maybe people would be prone to argue with you less if you were less quick to insult others.

 

But on topic, I've never really had an issue with armor while using Protea so to me the augment is a little disappointing. It does add a bit more synergy with her kit but I don't think it is good enough to justify retaining temporal anchor in place of a helminth ability or a mod slot.

[pisces13]

1 hour ago, GPrime96 said:

Except the grenades provide very little or next to no DPS benefits and only there to keep you and the team shield gated. So it’s like she have no other option than her turrets for main DPS which ramps up much faster with grouping.

The grenades strip armor. Is that hard to understand? 2 ticks and armor is fully stripped for any enemy that walks into the zone.

[pisces13]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

Jeez you sure are hostile. Maybe people would be prone to argue with you less if you were less quick to insult others.

 

But on topic, I've never really had an issue with armor while using Protea so to me the augment is a little disappointing. It does add a bit more synergy with her kit but I don't think it is good enough to justify retaining temporal anchor in place of a helminth ability or a mod slot.

The topic was that the augment is bad. I disagree. It is as or more effective than any helmith ability can provide. Protea already does everything, and she does it quite efficiently. I can be as hostile as I want to be. Especially when people claim stupid facts. You're free to ignore me if you dont want this discussion.

[Zeclem]

2 hours ago, pisces13 said:

Excuse me. The augment does not give the layer of protection. The 4th ability does. Regardless of that terrify doesn't strip acolytes.

and how many acolytes do you fight? if it ends up as big of a problem, unairu exists.

2 hours ago, pisces13 said:

Fire blast is whack and knocks enemies away.

fireblast is not "whack" and it knocking enemies back is not a bad thing for protea.

2 hours ago, pisces13 said:

Styanax skill range is much too small.

i mean not really? it covers a good cone in front of you, and a base range of 9 meters isnt really all that bad. and the range drawback is well worth trading in all the things i've mentioned that tharros strike has over what this augment provides. way quicker armor/shield removal, healing that procs archon intensify, way cheaper energy cost, does not require the clunk city ability to use. oh and does not take up a mod slot.

2 hours ago, pisces13 said:

Pillage requires too much ability strength.

not really? especially not on protea who gets quite a bit of power strength through her passive.

2 hours ago, pisces13 said:

Her augment works just fine where it is without relying on terrify or any enemy grouping ability.

yeah, instead you have all the other massive issues that people have been telling you but you are constantly ignoring them.

2 hours ago, pisces13 said:

And you scrubs love protea so much, but ignore the fact TEMPORAL ANCHOR CAN BE CANCELED BEFORE IT REWINDS. Complain more please.

yeah everybody who played protea for more than two seconds knows that. almost like there is a reason to why nobody mentioned that her ability making you go back 4 rooms constantly as a negative. because we know that it is cancellable. everybody does. 

so please drop this insufferable attitude. just because you cant address what people can see as weaknesses of this augment does not mean other people are "scrubs".

or don't. i have been on the internet and on this forum long enough that the attitude never goes anywhere so feel free to do whatever you want. i am not going to respond to you any further.

[pisces13]

1 hour ago, Zeclem said:

and how many acolytes do you fight? if it ends up as big of a problem, unairu exists.

fireblast is not "whack" and it knocking enemies back is not a bad thing for protea.

i mean not really? it covers a good cone in front of you, and a base range of 9 meters isnt really all that bad. and the range drawback is well worth trading in all the things i've mentioned that tharros strike has over what this augment provides. way quicker armor/shield removal, healing that procs archon intensify, way cheaper energy cost, does not require the clunk city ability to use. oh and does not take up a mod slot.

not really? especially not on protea who gets quite a bit of power strength through her passive.

yeah, instead you have all the other massive issues that people have been telling you but you are constantly ignoring them.

yeah everybody who played protea for more than two seconds knows that. almost like there is a reason to why nobody mentioned that her ability making you go back 4 rooms constantly as a negative. because we know that it is cancellable. everybody does. 

so please drop this insufferable attitude. just because you cant address what people can see as weaknesses of this augment does not mean other people are "scrubs".

or don't. i have been on the internet and on this forum long enough that the attitude never goes anywhere so feel free to do whatever you want. i am not going to respond to you any further.

None of your points make sense. You're just arguing to argue. No I'm not dropping my attitude. You know you can cancel her 4th. You have nothing to complain about. Mod slot is a non-issue. Ability slot is a non-issue. Don't like it, don't use it. Simple.

Edited August 2, 2023 by pisces13

[CatboyPrincess]

7 hours ago, sunderthefirmament said:

Sure, but there's also legitimate critique of Protea's 4, augment included or not, in this thread.  If you build for duration, the rewind pulls you out of the fight for an absurd length of time, assuming it even works.  The ability is famously glitchy.

 

Augments should be about opportunity cost, among other things.  Build tension is a good thing for the game.  But Protea's 4 is really, really clunky and unreliable.  Stapling some armor strip to it just seems like a blatant attempt on DE's part to get us to use this neglected ability that was probably incredibly expensive to create.  It reminds me of Yareli, honestly.  I can only theorize at this, but I feel like one reason DE decided to give us a K Drive frame was because the whole K Drive system was massively expensive to make and almost no one interacts with it.  Sunk cost fallacy, the frame, if you will.

 

The biggest problem with Protea's 4 is that what makes it cool and expensive, the rewind, is also what makes it clunky and bad.  It's a cool idea on paper, but it doesn't often play out well in game.  I don't use Helminth on Protea though.  The only time I've found her 4 useful is in saving my spot in a mission when some eximus drops a riven sliver 3 rooms back or something.  You can't even carry power cells or other objective items with it, so any use it would have for excavation or Kuva Fortress Assault are dead before they even arrive.

i dont remember the exact specifics (if it was a bug or the following matter), but you might need to have a weapon out that lets you hold objects (secondary or melee) before you cast 4 and all the way thru, never change to anything that would make you drop the item.

If that doesnt help (i dont remember my test results from way back): you can pick up the thingy within the last 0.4-ish (maybe 0.3) seconds of the timeout and it will reverse with you. combined with keeping melee or secondary out and not pulling out primary or archgun, this will def let you carry thingies.

 

the REAL real issue, after the previous is solved, is that certain actions (like trading in power cell for power) will overwrite your anchor's start position, or like exiting POI (or entering railjack) in railjack. But that has a workaround too. In railjack, you can go into operator form, open up tactical menu, go to ship view, then teleport by clicking on one of the stations (cant be normal omni method), then stay in operator form to do railjack chore, and then time yourself out as operator to revert to protea in POI. This technique also works in open world i.e. deimos. When you're running arcana vaults, you use 4 then swap into operator, then take the esophage, talk to nearby mother quickly, and time out as operator to revert to Protea inside vault, skipping the 1-2 minute back-forth journey.

 

4 is also great for disruption. you can put in a key thingy into the lock thingy, cast 4, then run very deep in 1 direction to scout. If you find demo, cancel 4, else, warp back within 2 seconds. You can then repeat. Very fast method. If you're on a team, and pick up a key far from a lock, you can cast 4, put key in, cast 4 to revert, and instantly scout that where you were.

i have positive duration but sacrificed a lot to make sure i have ~240% duration.

the augment really helps make up the difference.

roar is probably the best pure dps route, but I was already using Protea 4 constantly before the aug dropped. It's just better now, more efficient than Archon Vitality, since a full strip doubles the damage from slash grenades and heat.

 

this is cuz heat procs are affected by armour, and also slash grenades tick for damage that is otherwise negligible, so instead of nearly zero tick damage + double dipped faction-buffed bleed, you get full tick damage + regular bleed (similar for heat). The math still works out in roar's favour near level cap and with high STR no doubt, but the augment is great for any build that doesn't want to sacrifice the utility of the 4.

 

4 is also a terrible survival tool, except for its long iframes, even when you use tricks like holding 1 for shield grenades during rewind. The ragdoll is a death sentence.

 

so yeah the augment absolutely has a niche. with how i play warframe, it's a lot more useful than roar.

 

the 4 might also break objects?.... but LOS + no baseline damage makes it not viable for that. otherwise, protea would be one of the most broadly versatile frames.

 

keep in mind that OPs way of playing is their own thing; i entirely believe them the aug is not good for them. but, i repeat, the aug has its place.

 

im actually thinking now of a best of all worlds scenario by replacing dispensary with roar and then using Arcane Steadfast for energy economy. (such a build could probably lose dispensary)

 

e: protea's 4 can also optimize mobile defense and during archon hunts, grabbing deacon veils (with the note that you need to be careful with timing and order)

Edited August 2, 2023 by CatboyPrincess
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[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

10 hours ago, pisces13 said:

Excuse me. The augment does not give the layer of protection

you read this correctly but tried using it as a leverage point?

10 hours ago, pisces13 said:

Regardless of that terrify doesn't strip acolytes.

It only needs to distract the Crowd. Then again not everything is steel path ie Angels, Bosses, an annoying Crowd

10 hours ago, pisces13 said:

Styanax skill range is much too small.

yet we are talking about protea who has range builds

10 hours ago, pisces13 said:

Pillage requires too much ability strength

We were talking steel path a moment ago strength shouldn't be an issue, unless your wasting mod space on trash, Maybe an augment

10 hours ago, pisces13 said:

Her augment works just fine where it is without relying on terrify or any enemy grouping ability.

We weren't using other abilities with temporal anchor we are replacing temporal anchor with other abilities which saves a mod space and adds an attack vector (aka leverage) to the build

10 hours ago, pisces13 said:

And you scrubs love protea so much,

I hate using protea i just get tired of other good frames being so useful that i can't play a normal mission without tearing through enemies, objectives, resources. Just to save time to do something else. So occasionally i play protea but not enough to simp

Now improve your arguement instead of im gonna prove them wrong excuses

Edited August 3, 2023 by (XBOX)Mastermitchel89

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

10 hours ago, pisces13 said:

Fire blast is whack and knocks enemies away

if your complaining about strength and range then you missed this 

"Mod slot is a non-issue."

Until you run out of them

 

"None of your points make sense. You're just arguing to argue."

The one thing i hate more than any possible thing or occurence is a Hypocrite unlike hyper crits that give a unsatisfactory dopamine hit, a hypercrite doesn't just lie to others but to themselves

You shouldn't bother bull S#&$ting a proper psychologist like with everyone else you are side lining

Edited August 3, 2023 by (XBOX)Mastermitchel89

[(PSN)MYKK678]

This thread gets funnier by the day XD

Just a quick FYI, if you're trying the new Augment and still modding for Ability Strength, you haven't completely understood the Augment. If each single hit of Grenade Fan and Turret is stripping 10% armour..... well....actually ill leave it at that and see if anyone saying its a bad Augment can figure it out. No point ending the hilarity prematurely.

[GPrime96]

1 hour ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

This thread gets funnier by the day XD

Just a quick FYI, if you're trying the new Augment and still modding for Ability Strength, you haven't completely understood the Augment. If each single hit of Grenade Fan and Turret is stripping 10% armour..... well....actually ill leave it at that and see if anyone saying its a bad Augment can figure it out. No point ending the hilarity prematurely.

Strength heavy Proteas would be the worst Proteas anyway

[Hexerin]

15 hours ago, GPrime96 said:

Strength heavy Proteas would be the worst Proteas anyway

High strength is literally free on Protea, what?

On 2023-08-02 at 7:14 AM, sunderthefirmament said:

It reminds me of Yareli, honestly. I can only theorize at this, but I feel like one reason DE decided to give us a K Drive frame was because the whole K Drive system was massively expensive to make and almost no one interacts with it.  Sunk cost fallacy, the frame, if you will.

It's honestly kind of impressive how completely broken Yareli is, borderline unplayable tbh.

[pisces13]

On 2023-08-02 at 11:23 PM, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

if your complaining about strength and range then you missed this 

"Mod slot is a non-issue."

Until you run out of them

 

"None of your points make sense. You're just arguing to argue."

The one thing i hate more than any possible thing or occurence is a Hypocrite unlike hyper crits that give a unsatisfactory dopamine hit, a hypercrite doesn't just lie to others but to themselves

You shouldn't bother bull S#&$ting a proper psychologist like with everyone else you are side lining

😂 mod slot isnt an issue until you run out? Look I dont care what you are when dealing with a video game. Literally every builds runs out of mod slots. Using that as an excuse is redundant. Please reply. You're making this thread interesting.

[pisces13]

On 2023-08-02 at 11:11 PM, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

you read this correctly but tried using it as a leverage point?

It only needs to distract the Crowd. Then again not everything is steel path ie Angels, Bosses, an annoying Crowd

yet we are talking about protea who has range builds

We were talking steel path a moment ago strength shouldn't be an issue, unless your wasting mod space on trash, Maybe an augment

We weren't using other abilities with temporal anchor we are replacing temporal anchor with other abilities which saves a mod space and adds an attack vector (aka leverage) to the build

I hate using protea i just get tired of other good frames being so useful that i can't play a normal mission without tearing through enemies, objectives, resources. Just to save time to do something else. So occasionally i play protea but not enough to simp

Now improve your arguement instead of im gonna prove them wrong excuses

To be serious I rarely use protea. Her gameplay loop is boring to me, though effective. There's no point in trying to disprove you. All this is subjective. That's why I tend to use more speedy frames like gauss and zephyr. They're actually fun and hold my attention without having to spam abilities all day.

 

I have no issue with helminth. Most of my builds have a helminth in them. Trust me, I know the upside and downsides to these abilities. Like tharros strike which requires you to get close, 20m or so with decent range, to armor strip/shield strip. To me, its silly to jump back and forth to strip defenses. As cool as styanax is with his new augment, I couldnt make him my main, he just isn't speedy like I want him to be. See its all subjective.

Edited August 4, 2023 by pisces13

[(XBOX)DatBrig1Trik]

 i might not main protea but Shes my third most played and I personally enjoy the augment because i go high range and duration and normal str builds and grenade fan is really good at doing the stripping but the duration on temporal anchor is so bad sometimes you don't even have enough time to reposition for the implosion so all the damage stored gets wasted I just want the augment to give temporal anchor additional 100% duration but that's just me

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

On 2023-08-06 at 12:08 AM, (XBOX)DatBrig1Trik said:

 i might not main protea but Shes my third most played and I personally enjoy the augment because i go high range and duration and normal str builds and grenade fan is really good at doing the stripping but the duration on temporal anchor is so bad sometimes you don't even have enough time to reposition for the implosion so all the damage stored gets wasted I just want the augment to give temporal anchor additional 100% duration but that's just me

that would be a solid Augment

By actually Augmenting it for a solid playstyle 

 

Maybe if they added an Augment to her turrets for 20 seconds half range and damage but miniguns

Edited August 10, 2023 by (XBOX)Mastermitchel89

[Marvelous_A]

On 2023-07-28 at 6:08 AM, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

at least Protea's getting augments.. my boi Sevagoth still has nothing.

You mean Caliban. Mate didn't even get a single balance patch since release I think.

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

3 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

You mean Caliban. Mate didn't even get a single balance patch since release I think.

we don't talk about the new war

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

6 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

You mean Caliban. Mate didn't even get a single balance patch since release I think.

He never got any attention, people cared more about the new war when he released and after they're done with that the archon weapons were more interesting than him.

I say Inaros is bad but a worse fate than being known as bad is not being remembered at all.

[Marvelous_A]

8 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

He never got any attention, people cared more about the new war when he released and after they're done with that the archon weapons were more interesting than him.

I say Inaros is bad but a worse fate than being known as bad is not being remembered at all.

Yes and he deserves better. He's my new favorite warframe now.

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

8 minutes ago, Marvelous_A said:

Yes and he deserves better. He's my new favorite warframe now.

Can agree including colour styles like my old mag looks.

But Helminth calls its guttural whispers from its mangy crevice. for the prince with few followers.