We need hard endgame content so people have a reason to farm all these stuff.

[juanmolero]

Hi guys, let me know if you agree with me on this.

 

We need really hard endgame content, I'm thinking like 2 to 4 really hard bosses with group mechanics, no self revives, and longer times to get revived from friends, these bosses need to have a mechanic that doesn't let underlevel people get carried, like separatings people into different instances and have them kill all mobs or complete a task that only someone that's fully geared can complete. Get some oneshot mechanics with good telegraphed attacks, make these fights long, with minions, and various mechanics, with new art for these bosses so they feel different, new and more distinguised/important than the rest. Get them to have a really really specific drop pool, with really strong items so we feel rewarded.

 

But the most important thing is, like I said, to make them difficult enough that it even takes several tries to the most veteran people that have the most op setups. So that everyone that leaves the game because there is simply no reason to farm and put these 3000h needed to fully gear yourself other than to look cooler or oneshot mobs after being 2h in a survival mission.

 

The majority of people get to really fast to a part of the game where you basically become brainless because you oneshot everything that's not level 300+, and the end of the day, only a really small portion of the game's population stay in survival missions after 30min.

[Pakaku]

I'd appreciate more in-depth combat with enemies that have more advanced move-sets and counters... but Duviri Drifter was an extremely rough first attempt

Also, my usual problem with these end-game threads: they never consider anything beyond just killing stuff. Put a typical player in a puzzle room like Lua spy, or the first puzzle before the Kela fight, and watch them struggle to figure it out... that's practically end-game as far as I can tell.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Pakaku

[Chewarette]

8 minutes ago, juanmolero said:

We need really hard endgame content, I'm thinking like 2 to 4 really hard bosses with group mechanics, no self revives, and longer times to get revived from friends, these bosses need to have a mechanic that doesn't let underlevel people get carried, like separatings people into different instances and have them kill all mobs or complete a task that only someone that's fully geared can complete. Get some oneshot mechanics with good telegraphed attacks, make these fights long, with minions, and various mechanics, with new art for these bosses so they feel different, new and more distinguised/important than the rest. Get them to have a really really specific drop pool, with really strong items so we feel rewarded.

Cool, group content but you do your thing solo. that's awesome dude. Not even mentioning it would gatekeep lots of warframes/setups.

Also, one-shot mechanics were trash design 20 years ago, it's still trash design in 2023 and will still be in 2054. Please no.

[MaxTunnerX]

No, just no. The entire game got ruined by constantly adding difficulty to enemies. I dont want to see any "gold path" or "platinum path" or "kill this boss that takes forever to kill for no reason using immunity phases" or "play only with unmodded operator" just cuz someone is bored.

Edited July 31, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

I mean... I guess it depends on what you mean by "needs" here, because what you describe could potentially be interesting and I might agree with you, but it also sounds very niche, like a different game from Warframe, that also sounds designed to split the playerbase and cause resentment as well. It also touches on how different players can be motivated too, and how there are differences. 

Like one of the main issues in creating potential difficulty and challenge in Warframe, is that the game gives us a lot of different tools, and its certain combinations of these tools that can create variation in effectiveness. Except the general challenge and difficulty that does exist, doesn't require players be so hyper specific. For example armour stripping can be quite potent, and there are a lot of different ways to armour strip... with powers abilities, a Focus school, certain weapons with certain mods, but then there are also ways to bypass armour, and just other tools that get around it in other ways. Like survivability too, there are powers you can use, mods, techniques and skills, like movement, rolling, using LOS, using your Operator. Trying to create certain challenge/difficulty therefore sort of becomes a game/question of limiting such tools or constraining or minimising them to certain extents, but even then, there'll still be tools that will technically be the best, that players can gravitate towards. You can try and introduce systems, where the difficulty and challenge is more because of the skill and techniques a player needs to develop and practice... There are some games like that, but ehh... That may take skill and design that DE lacks or isn't as practised in. 

Like, I myself, I like a good 40 minute boss fight in Monster Hunter, where you need good timing, skill, need to avoid one hit kills, and its as much a battle of attrition, and minimising your errors, and maximising your windows of opportunity to deal damage, and those windows can be tight and you need great timing and focus... but its. a really different kind of game, and that game has history and experience with those kinds of challenges and encounters. Can't really just put that ir something like that (for other games that can do that), and just transfer that so easily. Least to my knowledge and understanding around video game design. 

Thats before we get into the issue of gameplay so difficult, having rewards that essentially tells a lot of the playerbase, "not for you scrub haha", plus some players can like challenge without meaning others are denied in the experiences of rewards. In short, I don't think DE has the experience or resources to create such challenges well, and such resources and time, could probably be spent elsewhere, and then trying to motivate players to then do such difficult mode, with exclusive rewards also sounds incredibly flawed, it will probably create resentment from those that can succeed, but may not want to, if not for the rewards, and those that may struggle as well. 

Something being easy, also doesn't mean you will disengage or become brainless either, it can, but its not always the case. I naturally find games pretty easy just because I am good with patter recognition, but I can find it engaging, by looking for synergies, and systems that can reward experimenting and having skill in using combos/combinations of tools. 

Not that I am against DE trying to experiment, and develop experience offering interesting and new potential end game modes and challenges. I think the Steel Path Orowyrm fight is decent improvement (bugs aside). I think that they'll add things like that, now and then. 

[(PSN)IdoThea]

I'm almost 30mr and I don't agree with this. I want to be OP and kill horde of enemies.

Already dislike steel path but I'm doing it for mastery. 

I don't really understand when players want harder content because gear we grinded because usually that hard content just makes our powerful guns feel like potato cannon. Archons are already annoying bullet sponges and every time I'm doing them I just wish someone joins with one shot build so fight will be over quick.

 

[Tsukinoki]

1 hour ago, juanmolero said:

I'm thinking like 2 to 4 really hard bosses with group mechanics, no self revives, and longer times to get revived from friends,

Oh yes, lets exclude solo players, or people who only play with a friend or two and don't have a full squad to go at these missions, or people with not the best internet!
That worked so well in raids and definitely wasn't one of the more complained about parts where you were forced to group up with other players. ^{(/s if it's needed)}

Forcing "group mechanics" doesn't really work in a game like warframe.  Especially when you try to force full squads.
Especially since DE has the numbers that the largest portion of the playerbase is small squads anyways.

And that's without even going into the possible state desyncs and everything else that can and will go wrong in forced squad missions where things only properly work for the host.
And also without going into the issues of people without the best internet being forced into random squads and just hoping it doesn't eff over everyone else too badly when their internet acts up....

1 hour ago, juanmolero said:

these bosses need to have a mechanic that doesn't let underlevel people get carried, like separatings people into different instances and have them kill all mobs or complete a task that only someone that's fully geared can complete.

So you want:
-Group content
-That isn't grouped and separates you anyways

So which is it?
You can't have both grouped and ungrouped content at the exact same time.....

Your idea is just disjointed.

 

Further this just causes builds to be excluded and useless.
You want to be a support?  LoL nope!  Sorry!  It's all solo for some reason!

2 hours ago, juanmolero said:

Get some oneshot mechanics with good telegraphed attacks

Oh great, more BS one shots that will likely bug out, hit you out of nowhere, have desynced visuals and hitboxes, and generally be an annoyance where you're hit off screen because you aren't psychic.
Or more likely you slap on the current shield-gating meta and utterly ignore the one-shots.

There are very few "good telegraphed one-shots" in games...and I would rather DE not try their hands on it.

After all we have the glowing one-shot enemies in archon hunts and they can just be casting it the instant you round a corner with zero warning or way to know about it beforehand....at least shield gating prevents the actual death.

2 hours ago, juanmolero said:

make these fights long, with minions, and various mechanics, with new art for these bosses so they feel different, new and more distinguised/important than the rest.

And then watch it turn into an extremely long slog after you've done it two or three times, yet know that you have to do it 30+ more times just for the rare reward that won't drop....

You think you're getting bored and burned out from current content?  Wait until you have a fight that takes 30+ minutes per attempt that is a wrote memorization of "Do A, B, C, D, E, F, G....." all in the same order over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Those sorts of fights might be fun/interesting to do once or twice, but as soon as you have people on attempt number 20 for a single item that just wont drop then they'll just be fed up and tired of it all and wishing the fight was nice and short.

2 hours ago, juanmolero said:

Get them to have a really really specific drop pool, with really strong items so we feel rewarded.

And this would serve what purpose?

I mean you would theoretically need to have the "best" gear to get these...so would they be better gear?  In which case where would you use said better gear?  Would you want DE to start a gear treadmill where you have to complete a given dungeon to be able to even play the next dungeon so you can get better gear whose only point is to get into the next dungeon?

I mean what would people use the "really strong items" in content wise?  It would just go back to one-shotting things 2 hours into survival missions just like now....so what's the point?

And again this just serves to be a slap in the face for the people who can't play in full squads (for various reasons) because now they are excluded from "strong items" (and the mastery that comes with them) for no real reason.

2 hours ago, juanmolero said:

But the most important thing is, like I said, to make them difficult enough that it even takes several tries to the most veteran people that have the most op setups. So that everyone that leaves the game because there is simply no reason to farm and put these 3000h needed to fully gear yourself other than to look cooler or oneshot mobs after being 2h in a survival mission.

So you want content that is designed to cater to the 1% of the 1% of warframe players so that no one else even needs to apply since they won't make it even half way through the content....

So how dead do you really want the mode to be after 2 or 3 days?  Because after that point it just won't be touched again.

Because if as you say:

2 hours ago, juanmolero said:

only a really small portion of the game's population stay in survival missions after 30min.

Is true, then no one will be able to play your content and get those "really strong items".....meaning that DE Just wasted a ton of time, effort, and money in making all that and purposefully making the content so egregiously annoying and difficult that no one would ever be able to complete it.

[Pizzarugi]

2 hours ago, Pakaku said:

Also, my usual problem with these end-game threads: they never consider anything beyond just killing stuff. Put a typical player in a puzzle room like Lua spy, or the first puzzle before the Kela fight, and watch them struggle to figure it out... that's practically end-game as far as I can tell.

Yes, well what good is a puzzle going to do in order to resolve the main issue OP was mentioning which was giving us powerful foes to make use of these OP weapons and incarnons?

Sure DE could give us Lua Spy 2: Ivara Boogaloo, but that doesn't need a powerful weapon to complete. :P

[Mazifet]

The thing is, content in Warframe will never be hard. Archons were initially difficult, until we discovered that an ivara with xatas whisper and a felarx can just sneak up to the archon and one shot it, making the entire hunt irrelevant.

If DE decides to add some "super hard endgame boss" we'll just use the 10 years of massive powercreep to turn them into mist within a second.

[Tsukinoki]

15 minutes ago, Mazifet said:

The thing is, content in Warframe will never be hard. Archons were initially difficult, until we discovered that an ivara with xatas whisper and a felarx can just sneak up to the archon and one shot it, making the entire hunt irrelevant.

If DE decides to add some "super hard endgame boss" we'll just use the 10 years of massive powercreep to turn them into mist within a second.

And if you can't do that because the boss is just that tanky that it can take a hit like that and not even notice then how is anyone else going to be able to even attempt to damage it unless they are all using that strategy?
It's a no win...and why we have damage attenuation that everyone hates for one reason or another.

Either it's tough enough that even super OP meta gear with god roll rivens can't kill it quickly, meaning that if you don't have that gear it'll take you literal hours to get through their healthbar
OR it's not and those strategies instantly delete it without any effort
OR we get damage attenuation that no one really likes as an attempt to find some sort of middle ground where it doesn't take the non-meta stratgies hours to kill but also isn't one shot by the higher end and fails at both.

 

The only other alternative is something like the Nihil fight that ignores all of your gear and choices and has some sort of gimmick to damage it....which players don't like because it "invalidates all the grinding and gear they got"....which wouldn't work in a mission like the one that the OP is suggesting in the original post.

[Pakaku]

5 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Yes, well what good is a puzzle going to do in order to resolve the main issue OP was mentioning which was giving us powerful foes to make use of these OP weapons and incarnons?

Sure DE could give us Lua Spy 2: Ivara Boogaloo, but that doesn't need a powerful weapon to complete. :P

Neither are mutually exclusive, you can have combat tested in a mission alongside testing other less-touched on skills like stealth, parkour, puzzle solving, etc. My point is all of these "end-game" threads assume end-game should always about combat, and never anything else.

[CrownOfShadows]

Yeah I agree with you, I want smart, dangerous, challenging enemies, not boring pushovers. Unfortunately, I think the majority of the WF population prefers dumb, easy enemies, and even more unfortunately, so do the devs, and so do 99% of youtubers who say that if something doesn't melt a room in one click it's trash. We are quite obviously not the target audience of WF, as cool as we find it's other systems and aesthetics.

I think the only way it might work in WF is if they coached it. Set it up. Like "heads up, you're about to be wrecked, git gud scrubs, because we don't think any of you can actually do this". I think it would go over ok that way. People wouldn't have dumb expectations, think they could jump into at MR11 and Revenant to victory. Put it behind some walls, make it a specialty extra, that one mission set you do at the very end. It's hard with all our power, but it can be done, even still, with a little imagination. People who say it can't be done just can't imagine it being done, but it can be.

[Voltage]

14 hours ago, Pakaku said:

Also, my usual problem with these end-game threads: they never consider anything beyond just killing stuff. Put a typical player in a puzzle room like Lua spy, or the first puzzle before the Kela fight, and watch them struggle to figure it out... that's practically end-game as far as I can tell.

We had "puzzle"/coordinated content when we had Trials, and the nurtured playerbase DE has of mindless AoE slaughter didn't like coordinated mechanics like that. A vocal minority visits this site to preach about some fantasy-land end-game raid, but the majority of players are the type you see on Reddit. People are more excited to get horny for Wisp Prime or slap on their 10th stacked Power Strength mod with X AoE setup than they are about trying more in their missions or be relied upon by a squad. Warframe's a very fun game, but the days of real co-op are long gone. It's more of a treadmill for rewards so that you can be up to date for the next major patch than anything else.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Voltage

[Pakaku]

16 minutes ago, Voltage said:

We had "puzzle"/coordinated content when we had Trials, and the nurtured playerbase DE has of mindless AoE slaughter didn't like coordinated mechanics like that. A vocal minority visits this site to preach about some fantasy-land end-game raid, but the majority of players are the type you see on Reddit. People are more excited to get horny for Wisp Prime or slap on their 10th stacked Power Strength mod with X AoE setup than they are about trying more in their missions or be relied upon by a squad. Warframe's a very fun game, but the days of real co-op are long gone. It's more of a treadmill for rewards so that you can be up to date for the next major patch than anything else.

If end-game is anything like what I'm imagining, no, this is not something a typical player who only plays casually or for the fashion is going to be able to clear. It will not be popular outside of a niche playerbase who can handle it, but that's just the nature of what a challenge is, and virtually a sign that it's working.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Pakaku

[Voltage]

5 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

If end-game is anything like what I'm imagining, no, this is not something a typical player who only plays casually or for the fashion is going to be able to clear. It will not be popular outside of a niche playerbase who can handle it, but that's just the nature of what a challenge is, and virtually a sign that it's working.

Accessibility correlates to profitability. DE could give you what you are looking for and make a return from 1% of players, or continue releasing lower effort (in the context of adding a difficult mode with new mechanics) power-creep incarnon adapters and make a return orders of magnitude higher. You're not wrong, but you're not the target audience. You just have to accept the game won't cater to you. The only thing the game caters to me now is completionism/collecting. All the co-op gameplay, clan content, Operations, Trials, the original Railjack demo, really fun squad setups with my friends, those are all dead, and have been dead for a long time. I just login now like everyone else so I can keep up with updates and continue enjoying the gameplay with every possible item I can realistically own.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Voltage

[Pakaku]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

Accessibility correlates to profitability. DE could give you what you are looking for and make a return from 1% of players, or continue releasing lower effort (in the context of adding a difficult mode with new mechanics) power-creep incarnon adapters and make a return orders of magnitude higher. You're not wrong, but you're not the target audience. You just have to accept the game won't cater to you. The only thing the game caters to me now is completionism/collecting. All the co-op gameplay, clan content, Operations, Trials, the original Railjack demo, really fun squad setups with my friends, those are all dead, and have been dead for a long time. I just login now like everyone else so I can keep up with updates and continue enjoying the gameplay with every possible item I can realistically own.

It is a shame though, when the devs are constantly piling on more and more powerful stuff, but it just makes me realise it's not worth farming most of stuff these days unless it's for fun or if there's a unique gimmick to it. If there's not going to be an end-game, they could at least focus on fun content (which is subjective of course)

[(NSW)Greybones]

Can’t say I agree with you; you’re trying to cater to a bunch of players looking for the next big cheese, not  a fight. There’s already different ways to build our gear/loadouts and justification for earning this stuff in the first place, and where we take the result to influences how a fight can play out, and players gravitate towards the lowest-risk options because, you guessed it, they’re not interested in fighting, and they’ll use that same mentality on anything you throw at them to avoid risk and they will discover some way to bypass everything and then complain that the amount of “Viable” options for turning the fight off is too small

[(NSW)Greybones]

On 2023-07-31 at 7:23 PM, juanmolero said:

Get them to have a really really specific drop pool, with really strong items so we feel rewarded.

Why this…? 

[juanmolero]

You guys are saying that endgame content would be played by 1% of the people because it is too hard, just like eidolons and deimos vault runs can be pretty hard for new players, but they get there if they stay playing the game, I feel like the majority of the people that play the game already have decent builds, but most of them stay just grinding for new weapons and warframes because there is literally no reason to get more damage.

 

If you give these new bosses a warframe drop, a new weapon drop, and new arcanes or something similar, it would be just like any other update for the game but with an actual new mechanic/gameplay, that way you guys get what you want, something new to grind for.

 

You guys are also saying that separating people takes the group aspect out of it, but no, TESO has done this several times in their dungeons/raids (And I'm pretty sure that other MMOs have done this as well) in certain stages of a boss fight, you get transfered to a different place where you have to kills mobs to get back to the main boss stage. This works even better in warframe, where your weapons don't need any buffs from your warframe to be able to do decent damage, and just make these mobs killable with a good weapon build, this way you can even aim for a Tank-Healer/Support-DPS group setup, so it becomes even more entertaining.

 

Someone said that archons were hard until they found that with an specific build they can one shot, so in this case, you just have to make these bosses better, they need to figure out resistances, HP, armor, shields and everything, and balance out these dumb af builds.

 

Or have mods and everything balanced for these bosses, just like other games do for PVP. Hell, take Path of Exile as an example, you can kill pretty fast any endgame boss with they require mechanics or you get oneshoted.

 

I'm not against oneshots, when they are done right, with well telegraphed attacks, you can avoid them, that's part of learning a new boss mechanics.

[CrownOfShadows]

8 hours ago, juanmolero said:

You guys are saying that endgame content would be played by 1% of the people because it is too hard, just like eidolons and deimos vault runs can be pretty hard for new players, but they get there if they stay playing the game, I feel like the majority of the people that play the game already have decent builds, but most of them stay just grinding for new weapons and warframes because there is literally no reason to get more damage.

 

If you give these new bosses a warframe drop, a new weapon drop, and new arcanes or something similar, it would be just like any other update for the game but with an actual new mechanic/gameplay, that way you guys get what you want, something new to grind for.

 

You guys are also saying that separating people takes the group aspect out of it, but no, TESO has done this several times in their dungeons/raids (And I'm pretty sure that other MMOs have done this as well) in certain stages of a boss fight, you get transfered to a different place where you have to kills mobs to get back to the main boss stage. This works even better in warframe, where your weapons don't need any buffs from your warframe to be able to do decent damage, and just make these mobs killable with a good weapon build, this way you can even aim for a Tank-Healer/Support-DPS group setup, so it becomes even more entertaining.

 

Someone said that archons were hard until they found that with an specific build they can one shot, so in this case, you just have to make these bosses better, they need to figure out resistances, HP, armor, shields and everything, and balance out these dumb af builds.

 

Or have mods and everything balanced for these bosses, just like other games do for PVP. Hell, take Path of Exile as an example, you can kill pretty fast any endgame boss with they require mechanics or you get oneshoted.

 

I'm not against oneshots, when they are done right, with well telegraphed attacks, you can avoid them, that's part of learning a new boss mechanics.

It's the dream man, we support it, we're actually with you, you're preaching to the choir. We're just not the majority, and the majority pays the bills.

We've been asking for years for difficulty spikes. We got SP, we got eximus overhaul, we got archons, we got undercroft -- all steps in the right direction, but we also got an avalanche of new power creep that rendered it all meaningless. As if we weren't boosted enough, here comes warframe overguard. They're too scared of alienating the majority. Just look at all the backlash still happening for eximus. The warframe playerbase is mindless and pathetic, and there's nothing I can think of that we can do about that.

[(NSW)Greybones]

9 hours ago, juanmolero said:

You guys are saying that endgame content would be played by 1% of the people because it is too hard, just like eidolons and deimos vault runs can be pretty hard for new players, but they get there if they stay playing the game, I feel like the majority of the people that play the game already have decent builds, but most of them stay just grinding for new weapons and warframes because there is literally no reason to get more damage.

 

If you give these new bosses a warframe drop, a new weapon drop, and new arcanes or something similar, it would be just like any other update for the game but with an actual new mechanic/gameplay, that way you guys get what you want, something new to grind for.

 

You guys are also saying that separating people takes the group aspect out of it, but no, TESO has done this several times in their dungeons/raids (And I'm pretty sure that other MMOs have done this as well) in certain stages of a boss fight, you get transfered to a different place where you have to kills mobs to get back to the main boss stage. This works even better in warframe, where your weapons don't need any buffs from your warframe to be able to do decent damage, and just make these mobs killable with a good weapon build, this way you can even aim for a Tank-Healer/Support-DPS group setup, so it becomes even more entertaining.

 

Someone said that archons were hard until they found that with an specific build they can one shot, so in this case, you just have to make these bosses better, they need to figure out resistances, HP, armor, shields and everything, and balance out these dumb af builds.

 

Or have mods and everything balanced for these bosses, just like other games do for PVP. Hell, take Path of Exile as an example, you can kill pretty fast any endgame boss with they require mechanics or you get oneshoted.

 

I'm not against oneshots, when they are done right, with well telegraphed attacks, you can avoid them, that's part of learning a new boss mechanics.

Endgame content would be cheesed. By the ones looking for said content.

[emmyemi]

The problem with making "hard" content is that we can already play to level cap, and many already do. If you can cheese hordes of level 9,999 enemies, including Eximus, Acolytes, and other special miniboss types, then I can't imagine this game COULD challenge you in any meaningful way without taking away some of that gear we've invested so much into.

Which is part of the problem people have with the Circuit. We put a lot of time and effort perfecting builds and loadouts, and then we're thrown into a game mode that does not guarantee you'll be able to use ANYTHING you've built. But because of that, the Circuit emphasizes teamwork, strategy, and smart decree acquisition over raw damage output, until you reach a point where you've made up for your lost power.

My point being, something like Archon Hunts is probably the closest thing to "challenging endgame content" we'll get WITHOUT getting the Circuit treatment. The core balance of the game after level 200 or so simply goes out the window, as basically all enemies are capable of one-shots and all we can do to prevent it is use shield gate / invulnerability / stealth and blast them with big numbers before they can get a bullet past our defenses. The only way to make content "challenging" now is to remove some part of our kit, or to completely rework enemy damage and HP (and then rework player damage and HP).

Edited August 2, 2023 by emmyemi

[Harutomata]

7 hours ago, emmyemi said:

The only way to make content "challenging" now is to remove some part of our kit, or to completely rework enemy damage and HP (and then rework player damage and HP).

On 2023-08-01 at 1:37 AM, Voltage said:

Warframe's a very fun game, but the days of real co-op are long gone.

I like to play healers and support in games, but WF kinda took that away over time. There are still ways some warframes can support the team but when it comes to HP healing after certain levels players become 1 shot from their max hp without DR abilities or high armor, then after even higher levels even with DR abilities and high armor. (Which is why shield gating got so popular.)
A rework to enemy and player damage and HP would make support warframes more relevant again, which I think could be great. But I assume if it wasn't done well it would make many players angry.
In a rework like that they could also rework or remove overguard on enemies. CC frames are basically no longer needed at this point, which is a shame in my opinion. Eximus rework just made it worse. Now it's more about "enemies can't do damage to you if they die quickly enough".
I guess it'd be difficult to make the game more team oriented at this point so it'd be "more co-op" (while playing solo still being viable of course), but I think some steps in that direction would improve the game.

[emmyemi]

5 minutes ago, Harutomata said:

But I assume if it wasn't done well it would make many players angry.

This is the key. And honestly, even if it was done very well, there would still be a very vocal response from players who don't want to see that much changing when they're already accustomed to the way things are.

DE are in a lose-lose situation. Players say they want challenging content, but that requires rebalancing, otherwise any "challenge" can be completely nullified and people won't be satisfied with it. On the other hand, just look at how many players have already complained about the difficulty in New War, and later in SP Duviri / Circuit. Any rebalancing would be met with vitriol, even if it's from a minority. Heck, sometimes even small nerfs are enough to set off a negative response.

I would love to see some rebalancing done for late game, but I understand that it's probably not going to happen soon—if at all.

[Harutomata]

2 hours ago, emmyemi said:

This is the key. And honestly, even if it was done very well, there would still be a very vocal response from players who don't want to see that much changing when they're already accustomed to the way things are.

DE are in a lose-lose situation. Players say they want challenging content, but that requires rebalancing, otherwise any "challenge" can be completely nullified and people won't be satisfied with it. On the other hand, just look at how many players have already complained about the difficulty in New War, and later in SP Duviri / Circuit. Any rebalancing would be met with vitriol, even if it's from a minority. Heck, sometimes even small nerfs are enough to set off a negative response.

I would love to see some rebalancing done for late game, but I understand that it's probably not going to happen soon—if at all.

I guess you're right.
I think some rebalancing would be better in the long run, even if some people were angry about it. It'd improve the overall "health" of the game, but it's not something many players would realize initially.