DE, can we stop with crazy difficult content PLEASE

[Ivi104]

I log in, and I find a Recall ten-zero quest mission, I open it up, and it throws me into Nihil's arena... Are you f-ing kidding me??? I wasn't able to beat him the first time around, god knows I tried and tried, and now I tried it again, and ... drum-roll please - I wasn't able to do it.

Please spare a thought to disabled people when you create content - I do not have the reflexes nor the motor control to pull this off. Not everyone enjoys or is able to beat this content.

The Nihil fight is pure pain, pure frustration, pure misery. Why would you want to put your players through that - not once, but TWICE???

Another, more recent example are the enemies of the Duviri landscape. OH MY GOD, whoever designed those should be fired on the spot. Fighting them is INSANELY HARD. They hit like a truck, they are hard to aim at, they get in your face and rush you, they need 20 bullets to kill. Just WTF...

I play Warframe to be an overpowered ninja. I enjoy being an overpowered ninja, I enjoy shredding rooms of enemies, jumping 20 meters high, moving lightning-fast. I love that and that is why I play.

The recent content updates (Nihil, New War drifter gameplay, ARCHONS 🤬, recurring Kahl missions, Duviri) all seem to be made specifically so we cannot enjoy the power fantasy we are here for.

You are ruining my experience of the game, and after trying it out, I can confidently say I will never come back to that content. EVER. Because it's unbeatable for me, and that makes it the opposite of fun.

PLEASE STOP making crazy difficult content, gimme back my ninja and stop forcing me into content that is made difficult for the sake of being difficult.

Thank you,

a very concerned player

[(PSN)Unstar]

I'm not sure what disabilities you're dealing with, but you have my condolences.  My arthritis definitely limits the way I can interface with the game, and as time goes on those limitations continue to increase.

With Nihil, I totally understand that players with mobility issues, etc, might have a lot of trouble beating him.  It's a fight that's more demanding than it needs to be, one that expects you to learn a new and clunky way to play the game while dealing with vanishing footholds and one-hit kills.  It is — to say the least — not very accessible.  If you want some advice, I'd be happy to try to help, but I also trust you to be the authority on whether or not you are capable of overcoming this challenge given whatever your unique circumstances are.

For the Duviri enemies, I believe I can genuinely help: Duviri is designed around melee gameplay, and in most cases your gun should be playing a support role.  You can use Duviri's lock-on targeting to ensure that your "quick shots" from your gun hit their target, but generally that's only helpful if enemies are doing one of their powerful moves that can be interrupted by gunfire.  Most of the time your focus should be on melee - blocking, countering, attacking, etc.  If you try playing it with that mindset, I have a feeling that you'll have a much better time — unless there's something specifically barring you from playing it that way.

[Silligoose]

12 minutes ago, Ivi104 said:

I log in, and I find a Recall ten-zero quest mission, I open it up, and it throws me into Nihil's arena... Are you f-ing kidding me??? I wasn't able to beat him the first time around, god knows I tried and tried, and now I tried it again, and ... drum-roll please - I wasn't able to do it.

Please spare a thought to disabled people when you create content - I do not have the reflexes nor the motor control to pull this off. Not everyone enjoys or is able to beat this content.

The Nihil fight is pure pain, pure frustration, pure misery. Why would you want to put your players through that - not once, but TWICE???

Another, more recent example are the enemies of the Duviri landscape. OH MY GOD, whoever designed those should be fired on the spot. Fighting them is INSANELY HARD. They hit like a truck, they are hard to aim at, they get in your face and rush you, they need 20 bullets to kill. Just WTF...

I play Warframe to be an overpowered ninja. I enjoy being an overpowered ninja, I enjoy shredding rooms of enemies, jumping 20 meters high, moving lightning-fast. I love that and that is why I play.

The recent content updates (Nihil, New War drifter gameplay, ARCHONS 🤬, recurring Kahl missions, Duviri) all seem to be made specifically so we cannot enjoy the power fantasy we are here for.

You are ruining my experience of the game, and after trying it out, I can confidently say I will never come back to that content. EVER. Because it's unbeatable for me, and that makes it the opposite of fun.

PLEASE STOP making crazy difficult content, gimme back my ninja and stop forcing me into content that is made difficult for the sake of being difficult.

Thank you,

a very concerned player

Due to Warframe's early-to-midgame balancing, a wide spectrum of power fantasy players is cultivated ranging from those who enjoy feeling like gods stomping on mortals, to those who enjoy feeling like gods taking on even more powerful gods and overcoming the odds.

That being said, I don't know who Kahl or Duviri is for, but it isn't for someone like me, who is looking for a challenge and who enjoys actual Warframe. Archons are badly designed as well and rather lazily implemented for Archon Hunts.

I can get behind a petition to have multiple difficulty levels for content being released though, so a greater portion of the player base can enjoy the level of challenge they prefer.

 

[Voltage]

For Nihil, I could understand someone going in blind and failing their first run, but it's not that difficult once you understand how it works. I totally forgot how this fight worked since I had not done it since it was originally added, but after a minute or two, it was pretty clear to me what the telegraphed attacks were, what the objective was, and how to finish the mission.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Voltage

[trst]

If you're just here for power fantasy then just enjoy the other 99% of the content in the game. And mind you said powerfantasy is still found within Duviri (normal and Circuit) and within Archon hunts.

And while the Nihil fight is something that employs lesser used core mechanics it's still not something that should be found to be that difficult. And if your condition makes it where basic content like that is "crazy difficult" then you either need to be selective in what parts of the game you engage with or move on to something else. As odds are that type of content is only going to become more common.

[Mazifet]

1 hour ago, Ivi104 said:

OH MY GOD, whoever designed those should be fired on the spot.

1b) DEVELOPER BASHING – Let’s face it, we aren’t perfect, we know this – we’re humans making a game. We work hard and read the forums with earnest care, so any insults will be cleaned up on the spot and not tolerated. Constructive feedback is encouraged and key to us improving the game.

For clarification:
What is an insult? “This Warframe is trash, whoever came up with it should be fired.”

caught in 4k 📸🤨

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I think the cruelest part is needing to do that fight for the other alerts to pop up afterwards: if the option wasn't there to just not do this fight, I'd have at least made it the last alert, the gameplay loop is so basic and different compared to actual boss fights that I found Prelate and Wolf missions WAY easier. 

I beat Nihil, again, but I did not enjoy it any more than first time, just stay in your damn bottle ya blue ba$tard..

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

24 minutes ago, trst said:

If you're just here for power fantasy then just enjoy the other 99% of the content in the game. And mind you said powerfantasy is still found within Duviri (normal and Circuit) and within Archon hunts.

And while the Nihil fight is something that employs lesser used core mechanics it's still not something that should be found to be that difficult. And if your condition makes it where basic content like that is "crazy difficult" then you either need to be selective in what parts of the game you engage with or move on to something else. As odds are that type of content is only going to become more common.

Nihil fight isnt going to become more common, but it is true that the nihil fight is very simple (if diifficult) and once you understand it - and actually engage with the fight - its very doable. OP strikes me as a boomrat, a player who presses trigger with an AoE and bullet jumps around more often than not, so it makes sense that regardless of any disability they would have major problems understanding and executing what they have to do since much of it is non-obvious mechanical gameplay. 

As for the OP... If your disability makes you unable to parkour, warframe might not be the game for you to start with. 90% of the games movement is based around the parkour mechanics. 

[Hexerin]

22 minutes ago, Mazifet said:

-snip for guidelines citation-

caught in 4k 📸🤨

Cringe backseat moderation.

[Pakaku]

The Nihil fight? You jump over his sword and you pick up shards to throw, it doesn't really get much simpler than that

Duviri enemies are also total pushovers when you gun them down, at least when not on Steel Path. Yes, Duviri is boring as a normie guy, but that doesn't make it "crazy difficult"

Edited August 4, 2023 by Pakaku

[FA22_RaptoR]

A good friend of mine has dyslexia and his reactions left/right can be a bit of a stutter. He was physically not capable of doing the MR25 (advanced mobile capture point test) so I had to help him out with that one...

The game really does have some goofy weird mechanics that only show up in one place or another to never be seen again...

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

8 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Cringe backseat moderation.

2) QUALITY STANDARDS – Use our forums to talk to us and talk to each other in a constructive and respectful way that encourages interaction and thoughtful discussion. Stay on-topic, be constructive and use descriptive Topic titles. Don’t rage/rant post, name and shame, have misleading topic titles, post spam, advertisements, unreleased Design Council information, pornography or any other inappropriate, offensive or irrelevant content to the Forums in text, image, or video form. We will delete/edit it, and there will be consequences as per our warnings.

[PollexMessier]

I don't think it's really that much harder than the rest of the game. It's certainly a lot easier than the "boss battle" at the end of Octavia's Anthem.
Bullet jump to a different platform when he telegraphs a sword attack. It really doesn't matter if it's vertical or horizontal. Do a dodge when he telegraphs firing a shard form his forehead (sometimes just walking sideways works. sometimes it doesn't). Touch the shard to pick it up, get close as you can to one of the floating crystals so you can't miss cus the shards have the projectile speed and arch of a dollar store nerf knock off, and press the shoot button to throw the shard at it.
His telegraphs are like a full second long and pretty easy to tell if he's gonna sword or shard so I feel like there's not much of an issue for reaction time here.

As for Duviri, once you unlock the ability to summon your warframe in the fields you don't have to deal too much with the more challenging combat of the drifter. But if you can just rack up enough decrees from some easy side objectives, which there are many that don't require combat, then drifter combat becomes just as much of a breeze as warframe combat does.

Edited August 4, 2023 by PollexMessier

[Metalgearfox]

1 hour ago, Ivi104 said:

I log in, and I find a Recall ten-zero quest mission, I open it up, and it throws me into Nihil's arena... Are you f-ing kidding me???

I have checked the forums every day since that alert went up, knowing that this thread would be made.
I've already got my popcorn.

I have a question, how far did you get in mario64?

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

4 minutes ago, FA22_RaptoR said:

A good friend of mine has dyslexia and his reactions left/right can be a bit of a stutter. He was physically not capable of doing the MR25 (advanced mobile capture point test) so I had to help him out with that one...

The game really does have some goofy weird mechanics that only show up in one place or another to never be seen again...

WHat about his up and forward? 
Because you can dodge nihil swords by going PAST him, or dodge the shards by jumping up. 

[Surbusken]

If everything was in co-op as it should be, we wouldn't have any of these problems.

Especially all the lore quests feel extra disconnected when you can't play them with friends.

 

 

[Metalgearfox]

1 minute ago, Surbusken said:

If everything was in co-op as it should be, we wouldn't have any of these problems.

If it were co-op, I would want everyone to share a life so if one person dies, the whole group dies.

Just like modern raid mechanics in wow. 1 mistake = wipe lol.

[(PSN)Dragoon790]

This was my first time attempting the Nihil fight. It felt like I went back to trying to play Elden Ring and I'm bashing my head against a brick wall hoping it will give at some point. I do enjoy a challenge, but the Nihil fight just seems lame and needlessly punishing. No weapons, no abilities, and all he does is slow you down and one-shot you. All that frustration for a noggle figurine? Give me a break! I'd like that forma, but if I have to do it TWICE with the second time possibly being harder than the first? Heck no! I don't even have a disability and he drops me like a fly given enough time. Warps right behind me and "SMACK". Might not be as bad if hitting the large crystals wasn't such of a crap shoot. 90% of the time, that crystal item I throw goes right through the large one you need to break to remove his invulnerability.

Edited August 4, 2023 by (PSN)Dragoon790

[Metalgearfox]

Just now, (PSN)Dragoon790 said:

No weapons, no abilities, and all he does is slow you down and one-shot you.

It's literally like... any platformer boss, like mario 64.
When he throws his head back, he is gonna shoot a crystal. Tap jump. land. pick up. throw at a crystal/back at him.
When he cocks his sword sideways, jump up.
When he cocks his sword over his shoulder, jump right.

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Dragoon790 said:

This was my first time attempting the Nihil fight. It felt like I went back to trying to play Elden Ring and I'm bashing my head against a brick wall hoping it will give at some point. I do enjoy a challenge, but the Nihil fight just seems lame and needlessly punishing. No weapons, no abilities, and all he does is slow you down and one-shot you. All that frustration for a noggle figurine? Give me a break! I'd like that forma, but if I have to do it TWICE with the second time possibly being harder than the first? Heck no! I don't even have a disability and he drops me like a fly given enough time. Warps right behind me and "SMACK".

When hes not in your vision, immediately move to the next platform. Taking the fight slow and methodical instead of trying to speedrun it helps a lot. 
You also only need to do the fight once, then you can move on to better farms. Like the pathocyst and the wolf sledge!

[(PSN)Dragoon790]

2 minutes ago, Metalgearfox said:

It's literally like... any platformer boss, like mario 64.
When he throws his head back, he is gonna shoot a crystal. Tap jump. land. pick up. throw at a crystal/back at him.
When he cocks his sword sideways, jump up.
When he cocks his sword over his shoulder, jump right./

How about the teleportation he does and hitting the large crystals to remove the invulnerability? My shots keep going through them most of the time.

 

2 minutes ago, (PSN)ARC_Paroe said:

When hes not in your vision, immediately move to the next platform. Taking the fight slow and methodical instead of trying to speedrun it helps a lot. 
You also only need to do the fight once, then you can move on to better farms. Like the pathocyst and the wolf sledge!

I try to keep moving, but he has some good range with that large blade. Then there's the slowdown if he hits me with a crystal first. It also shows three instances of this fight with three different rewards. I just wanted the forma, but that's the second time for this annoyance.

[Metalgearfox]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Dragoon790 said:

How about the teleportation he does and hitting the large crystals to remove the invulnerability? My shots keep going through them most of the time.

Bullet jump across when he teleports behind.
Sounds like you aren't arcing your shots. It's a thrown item. Like a bomb in mario 64.

[(PSN)ARC_Paroe]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Dragoon790 said:

How about the teleportation he does and hitting the large crystals to remove the invulnerability? My shots keep going through them most of the time.

 

I try to keep moving, but he has some good range with that large blade. Then there's the slowdown if he hits me with a crystal first. It also shows three instances of this fight with three different rewards. I just wanted the forma, but that's the second time for this annoyance.

If youre getting hit by the sweep, youre not moving fast enough. Look for when he starts a swing animation then dip across to the other side. 

You can mod for air time/parkour speed in this fight, the only damage you take is a oneshot.

[(PSN)Dragoon790]

Just now, Metalgearfox said:

Bullet jump across when he teleports behind.
Sounds like you aren't arcing your shots. It's a thrown item. Like a bomb in mario 64.

I am arcing my shots. I know the method of lobbing items like grenades, but they go right through the large crystals most of the time. Should I go for the bottom, middle, or top?

[Metalgearfox]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Dragoon790 said:

Should I go for the bottom, middle, or top?

Dead center with arcing so probably like 10% up from 50%, more at further ranges. 

If you are having trouble, get closer.

Edited August 4, 2023 by Metalgearfox