regarding getting auto melee-ing

[SneakyErvin]

57 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Or I could literally put a wooden block on a random key in the corner...

Sure you could literally put a wooden block on a button, but it would literally end up with the same outcome as now, you standing in a corner and literally attacking nothing even if you would literally swing like a maniac by literally having a block on a button.

[Surbusken]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

The word doesnt mean what you think it means.

Wukong = Klone, automated A.I that does things on its own after getting summoned.

Auto-melee = They switch E, E, E, E, E and ^ + E, E, E, E, E to E-hold and ^ + E-hold. You still very much need to interact with it the same amount of time as you currently do. It just helps younger people to not break their hands/wrists and older people to be able to play melee with their already broken hands and wrists. It also prolongs the lifetime of your KB/M/Controler since you no longer need to mash a single button over and over.

As to AoE spam getting re-installed. It never went away and if you want Incarnon for AoE it still doesnt equal pure AoE since you do need to build up the charges which takes a longer time than reloading in most content, then the biggest AoE options within the system have very limited charges. The best options are still the hybrids that sacrifice pure AoE to also be deadly for single target, like Torid, Burston, Furis and Angstrum, or pure single target options like Dual Toxocyst. Then you have things like Strun that does great damage with AoE, but is a pita to build charges on, like every other shotgun, so you are really better of just picking up a Zarr, Probo Cernos or Sporelacer secondary in that case.

So what is your point?

I am just looking at a wall of gibberish, but thanks for typing out a bunch of "E's", what a treat to read over.

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

The word doesnt mean what you think it means.

Wukong = Klone, automated A.I that does things on its own after getting summoned.

Auto-melee = They switch E, E, E, E, E and ^ + E, E, E, E, E to E-hold and ^ + E-hold. You still very much need to interact with it the same amount of time as you currently do. It just helps younger people to not break their hands/wrists and older people to be able to play melee with their already broken hands and wrists. It also prolongs the lifetime of your KB/M/Controler since you no longer need to mash a single button over and over.

As to AoE spam getting re-installed. It never went away and if you want Incarnon for AoE it still doesnt equal pure AoE since you do need to build up the charges which takes a longer time than reloading in most content, then the biggest AoE options within the system have very limited charges. The best options are still the hybrids that sacrifice pure AoE to also be deadly for single target, like Torid, Burston, Furis and Angstrum, or pure single target options like Dual Toxocyst. Then you have things like Strun that does great damage with AoE, but is a pita to build charges on, like every other shotgun, so you are really better of just picking up a Zarr, Probo Cernos or Sporelacer secondary in that case.

So what is your point?

I am just looking at a wall of gibberish, but thanks for typing out a bunch of "E's", what a treat to read over.

[TeaHands]

At 1:11:00 of the Tennolive video. They mentioned along with auto melee they're bringing in "an extra new mechanic" to "spice things up". So maybe it's something to make automation less attractive or prevents auto melee from being a "press to win" mechanic. But I guess we'll have to wait till next devstream to find out what that means.

[SneakyErvin]

4 minutes ago, Surbusken said:

So what is your point?

I am just looking at a wall of gibberish, but thanks for typing out a bunch of "E's", what a treat to read over.

You dont understand what the E's refer to and yet you are here complaining about melee "automation"? When it wont actually get automated at all since the change is going from spamming E to holding E. You are still required to interact with the button for the same exact amount of time to pull of the whole combo or reach X part of the combo. 

Unless of course you also consider using a gun with auto or hold trigger as "automated".

I mean serious question, do you even play the game, have you ever played it?

[Salenstormwing]

5 hours ago, Voltage said:

I only draw the conclusions I draw because they've still done absolutely nothing about the toxic abuse of Specters for years and several out of bounds farms. 

Accessibility options are great, but it may end up just like Forza Horizon 5's Goliath AFK farm is all I was going with it. 

Hi.

As someone who's spent almost 1 and a half years advocating for automatic toggles for Accessibility options, be it with Semi-Triggers or Auto-Melee button presses, I'd like to state... We can have one good thing and still hope for more and better.

I haven't seen this "toxic abuse of Specters" you're talking about, but if you say they're there, I will say "Okay, maybe DE should look into that". What I won't say is "We're getting improvements, but because I'm not getting the improvements I specifically want, that means the Developer is bad".

In the end, accessibility issues is about health of the players. Do your issues need fixing? Maybe. I'm not a software dev, but I can say that  on the scale of "things DE should implement", items involving the physical health of the community tend to rank a bit higher than "this bug that makes farming a bit easier". Plus, I've seen DE chase the Farming X-Location for Y train for years. I remember when Hydron was a go-to for farming. But anyways, the point is, keep your feedback going. But let's not be all negative when we see progress in other areas of the game as well.

Just because we get Auto-Melee doesn't mean we're getting Auto-Triggers. And while I'm glad to see Auto-Melee finally getting it's day, that's not going to stop me from continuing to be vocal on broadening that to firearms in-game too. But I can also celebrate what progress we have made.

Don't get down. We're all one big community, and Warframe is one big, very cumbersome, game, with a lot of parts. And not everything gets all the love and attention it needs. But you should be happy for when we do get some of those squeaky gears fixed, even if it isn't the cog you want/need fixed.

[taiiat]

22 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Melee is already simple enough. Why would they make it into brain dead afk? Forget Wukong, we'll have Vauban with kronen.

Video Games never have positive affirmation on whether you're queuing the next attack on the chain or not, meh.
and having to deal with queuing is so awful anyways. an ideal system wouldn't have any queuing to deal with.
besides, this highly mentally stimulating system you're referring to is usually mashing the same Button until you decide you want to stop attacking. gee, so deep. implying that there's any skill being demonstrated through that is just delusional.

may as well have auto queuing as a result, then.

 

besides, using an automatic Gun in basically every Video Game ever already qualifies as being braindead by your mark, anyways.

 

 

20 hours ago, (PSN)Lollybomb said:

They already did it with the "mash X to perform task" in other parts of the game.  I wouldn't mind seeing this an an option for semi-automatic guns either.  It's not like we don't mash the shoot button as fast as we can anyway.

yeah, i opted for that Accessibility setting immediately, before i'd even encountered any of the new QTE's after whichever Update had introduced them. first time i launched the game after, flipped that Setting before i played my first Mission.
sure, i could mash a Button, but what if i just didn't because it's not like this is a skill test anyways. there's no skill involved in that.

16 hours ago, (PSN)Spider_Enigma said:

the old melee system was better

i largely hated it. having a Sheet up to remember which Konami Code i input to get that one attack that i need to do a few Seconds from now - is a pretty boring system. that's making maybe one choice per 5 Seconds on average.
but what if Melee Combat was making active decisions on how to attack, on every single swing? that's the Melee system i'd want, and kinda what we got promised with those "Melee v3.....ish" changes. it was supposed to have less Konami Code crap and more picking tools to use at the right time and you create the 'combo' yourself, so that you spend more time attacking and less time flailing at the air.

this all sounded great and i was so in favor of it, after advocating for basically that over the span of probably 5 Years.
but what we got isn't quite there, since a significant amount of the unique attacks and traits from Melee Weapons/Stances just got straight removed from the game but the random generic swings were mostly left there. which is... not how that should have gone, it's the generic filler swings that should have been pared down heavily, not removing the unique stuff that were the big drivers of setting different Stance classes and even specific Weapons apart!

 

 

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, Surbusken said:

So what is your point?

ask yourself that instead of others, sweetie, as you're the one that doesn't have a point.

[Voltage]

9 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

Hi.

As someone who's spent almost 1 and a half years advocating for automatic toggles for Accessibility options, be it with Semi-Triggers or Auto-Melee button presses, I'd like to state... We can have one good thing and still hope for more and better.

I haven't seen this "toxic abuse of Specters" you're talking about, but if you say they're there, I will say "Okay, maybe DE should look into that". What I won't say is "We're getting improvements, but because I'm not getting the improvements I specifically want, that means the Developer is bad".

In the end, accessibility issues is about health of the players. Do your issues need fixing? Maybe. I'm not a software dev, but I can say that  on the scale of "things DE should implement", items involving the physical health of the community tend to rank a bit higher than "this bug that makes farming a bit easier". Plus, I've seen DE chase the Farming X-Location for Y train for years. I remember when Hydron was a go-to for farming. But anyways, the point is, keep your feedback going. But let's not be all negative when we see progress in other areas of the game as well.

Just because we get Auto-Melee doesn't mean we're getting Auto-Triggers. And while I'm glad to see Auto-Melee finally getting it's day, that's not going to stop me from continuing to be vocal on broadening that to firearms in-game too. But I can also celebrate what progress we have made.

Don't get down. We're all one big community, and Warframe is one big, very cumbersome, game, with a lot of parts. And not everything gets all the love and attention it needs. But you should be happy for when we do get some of those squeaky gears fixed, even if it isn't the cog you want/need fixed.

Maybe I've been misunderstood. I am not asking to not get these features, I merely brought up the likely reason we're finally getting them and concerns that are hopefully considered when implementing it. Not having these features is detrimental for player health in a game that is so focused on input spam.

My comment on some issues that are left unchecked was my example for why it's important that this is done right on the first try.

[Surbusken]

30 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

You dont understand what the E's refer to and yet you are here complaining about melee "automation"? When it wont actually get automated at all since the change is going from spamming E to holding E. You are still required to interact with the button for the same exact amount of time to pull of the whole combo or reach X part of the combo. 

Unless of course you also consider using a gun with auto or hold trigger as "automated".

I mean serious question, do you even play the game, have you ever played it?

I am still not reading any points, what are you saying?

 

I had said the wukong nerf last year was pointless, because:

 

a. China is numero uno

b. Mobile market is China is mobile

c. They grew up on mobile, not PC, not console, mobile.

d. Mobile is automation. China is automation.

e. Wukong is China, Wukong is automation.

 

Then recently on top of "why-go-to-war-with-the-biggest-gaming-market-on-the-planet-for-no-reason" debate, we also got "developers-backstab-developer-apologists-in-the-back-by-re-introducing-AoE-spam" and now "double-backstab-through-automation".

Thats' gotta sting being a developer apologist these days eh? Really, really making you work for that forum moderator lol, think you getting it this year or?

 

But eh, thanks for typing out that "E combo", that really gave everyone something to think about!!!1

[SneakyErvin]

15 minutes ago, Surbusken said:

Then recently on top of "why-go-to-war-with-the-biggest-gaming-market-on-the-planet-for-no-reason" debate, we also got "developers-backstab-developer-apologists-in-the-back-by-re-introducing-AoE-spam" and now "double-backstab-through-automation".

Thats' gotta sting being a developer apologist these days eh? Really, really making you work for that forum moderator lol, think you getting it this year or?

 

But eh, thanks for typing out that "E combo", that really gave everyone something to think about!!!1

The point is there was no reintroduction of AoE since it never left in the first place and incarnons are weaker for that specific purpose overall. And there is no automation since you still need to interact with melee just as much as now, you just dont have to break your keyboard, mouse, hand or wrist in the process. The melee changes are also long long overdue.

[Surbusken]

15 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

...

I don't know why you even talk to me to be honest.

You want to just deny everything, deny water is wet - I mean you must have a really low opinion of people's intelligence, like there was no nerf based on your word at face value... as a developer apologist.

Okay everyone shut the forum down, this guy over just announced everything-is-perfect.com.

 

You do understand no developer apologist in the history of video gaming as even been taken seriously, right? It's on you to make your way back to reality, I don't know what more I can do for you. Wish you good luck?

[Tiltskillet]

32 minutes ago, Surbusken said:

I don't know why you even talk to me to be honest.

[Surbusken]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

No, it isn't.

[Salenstormwing]

3 hours ago, Voltage said:

Maybe I've been misunderstood. I am not asking to not get these features, I merely brought up the likely reason we're finally getting them and concerns that are hopefully considered when implementing it. Not having these features is detrimental for player health in a game that is so focused on input spam.

My comment on some issues that are left unchecked was my example for why it's important that this is done right on the first try.

I understand.

And I know you said DE might ban folks were implementing their own "auto" trigger function to enable holding down a single key to melee. The thing is, DE said macros were okay to use and would not be punished if a player set up something like... "Free Floating Mouse Wheel acting as a trigger device". That's a common example because folks did do it. And DE said it was okay for players to do. You're still limited by the code in-game on how fast you would swing your sword/shoot your gun/tap E to remove a veil...

You see, that was MY problem, despite being a PC player. I could benefit from macros and the like, but other players, console players, could not. Plus, you're forcing a player to fix a problem that could be fixed in-game for all players. The fact DE has announced they're looking into the issue, and have been testing it behind the scenes means they are working to make sure it is implemented properly.

Plus, Pablo is working on it. Pablo's single-handedly made some of the best changes to Warframe in recent memory.

We're all good. Warframe is getting fixes. And I do hope your other issues are resolves eventually, or at least brought up and discussed.

I'm willing to give DE the benefit of the doubt when it comes to how they implement the auto-melee. The least I can do is wait till it's implemented to THEN complain about it.  No sense in making a big fuss over what "may" happen. At least, not yet.

[Currilicious]

I made the mouse wheel melee lol. While wielding a melee weapon of course.

It's the same with semi auto guns that can be modded into spitfire shooters. Staticor comes to mind.

[nghoomoine4]

On 2023-08-29 at 11:55 PM, (PSN)Unstar said:

I don't fully understand what you're saying, but every platform is getting auto-melee.  It's not in the game yet though, which is why you don't currently have it.

bcos im sure players have been feedbacking to DE to have auto melee so they dont have to keep on spamming the attack button or something.. ppl just forget wf isnt always about only melee attack or spamming melee..........

[nghoomoine4]

41 minutes ago, Salenstormwing said:

I understand.

And I know you said DE might ban folks were implementing their own "auto" trigger function to enable holding down a single key to melee. The thing is, DE said macros were okay to use and would not be punished if a player set up something like... "Free Floating Mouse Wheel acting as a trigger device". That's a common example because folks did do it. And DE said it was okay for players to do. You're still limited by the code in-game on how fast you would swing your sword/shoot your gun/tap E to remove a veil...

You see, that was MY problem, despite being a PC player. I could benefit from macros and the like, but other players, console players, could not. Plus, you're forcing a player to fix a problem that could be fixed in-game for all players. The fact DE has announced they're looking into the issue, and have been testing it behind the scenes means they are working to make sure it is implemented properly.

Plus, Pablo is working on it. Pablo's single-handedly made some of the best changes to Warframe in recent memory.

We're all good. Warframe is getting fixes. And I do hope your other issues are resolves eventually, or at least brought up and discussed.

I'm willing to give DE the benefit of the doubt when it comes to how they implement the auto-melee. The least I can do is wait till it's implemented to THEN complain about it.  No sense in making a big fuss over what "may" happen. At least, not yet.

why would DE ever ban anyone from using 3rd party auto clicker for when we need them to auto semi auto guns? you know u could just bind the any button or keybind for melee attack right? its not like players are limited to one keybind. the have alternate ones for that. using auto clicker is not hacking ok?

and how would anyone use macro in wf? yeah moaybe other mmo can use them bcos players might want to afk. if DE had add auto melee feature long ago along with melee 2.0 then ppl wont have kept complaining to de just bcos they broke their fingers or buttons from endless spamming without stop... ugh 

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

6 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

changing carpal tunnel E spam to auto melee is not encouraging afk 

ffs yall throw this word around whenever there's even the slightest bit of automation lmfao

for starters, hearing "auto melee" made me immediately think that if i had a sword out and there was an enemy 2 feet in front of me, i would attack.

second, if auto melee is simply "holding down the button/key," then you literally could just hold down the said key by putting something on top of it, so in other words, legalized automated spam.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

4 hours ago, taiiat said:

 

 

besides, using an automatic Gun in basically every Video Game ever already qualifies as being braindead by your mark, anyways

Guns require ammo (including the process of actually gathering it) and aiming, something melees don't. Melee in warframe involves sweeping attacks that effectively will damage any enemy in your general direction assuming they're close enough.

[Salenstormwing]

45 minutes ago, nghoomoine4 said:

why would DE ever ban anyone from using 3rd party auto clicker for when we need them to auto semi auto guns? you know u could just bind the any button or keybind for melee attack right? its not like players are limited to one keybind. the have alternate ones for that. using auto clicker is not hacking ok?

I am quite aware of that. That's what I was trying to explain to Voltage, who seemed to think making macros to spam the fire button or melee button was a bannable offense, when DE has specifically said that they would not ban anyone for making such mods.

[Drasiel]

3 hours ago, Salenstormwing said:

I am quite aware of that. That's what I was trying to explain to Voltage, who seemed to think making macros to spam the fire button or melee button was a bannable offense, when DE has specifically said that they would not ban anyone for making such mods.

Well, Voltage is right actually. DE have come out multiple times saying that using a Macro may get your account banned because macros can be used nefariously and with enough effort can be used for damn near full automation. Now they normally follow this up by saying in most cases you will not get banned if you are using them as an accessibility option and you are not using them to play the game for you. As with all companies they use vague statements to avoid legal issues. DE 99% of the time will never ban someone for a turbo macro, but they can choose to do so with no legal repercussions at any point in time, which still leaves us macro users at risk of losing our accounts. This is why to this day all the support staff suggest you do not use macros at all. 

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

On 2023-08-29 at 9:31 AM, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Melee is already simple enough. Why would they make it into brain dead afk? Forget Wukong, we'll have Vauban with kronen.

Because some in the community have disabilities and DE most likely received some feedback requesting it. They called it an accessibility feature.

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

4 hours ago, nghoomoine4 said:

why would DE ever ban anyone from using 3rd party auto clicker for when we need them to auto semi auto guns?

That is not a need. That's a want. You want to change the gun's firing properties. 

[L3512]

1 hour ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Because some in the community have disabilities and DE most likely received some feedback requesting it. They called it an accessibility feature.

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

That is not a need. That's a want. You want to change the gun's firing properties. 

 

Incredibly stupid contradiction.

When DE does it it's an accessibility feature, when a player that might have a disability asks for it it's a want not a need.

[Drasiel]

1 hour ago, (PSN)GEN-Son_17 said:

Because some in the community have disabilities and DE most likely received some feedback requesting it. They called it an accessibility feature.

Honestly, it's not even just disabilities that would benefit, any aging biological system benefits. This may shock people but we did not evolve to click a button 200 times within 5-minute spans and activities that require that kind of physical behaviour tend to damage even healthy bodies. It's why in the 90s carpal tunnel and RSIs became such a huge issue the widespread commercial usage of computers suddenly introduced this behaviour to the masses.

Games have been bad for it for nearly as long, they used to call it "Nintendo thumb".

[(PSN)GEN-Son_17]

9 minutes ago, L3512 said:

 

 

Incredibly stupid contradiction.

When DE does it it's an accessibility feature, when a player that might have a disability asks for it it's a need not a want.

What are you talking about?

That player wanted to "auto a semi auto weapon" but called it a "need". A semi auto weapon is classified as a semi auto weapon. They are generally more powerful per shot and rapid fire by button press falls in line with what the weapon is supposed to do. Players can choose an automatic weapon instead of a semi auto to suit their needs. However, OP wants the characteristics of a type of gun to be forced into another type, this eliminating the whole gunslinger mechanic. There are tons of grey areas there.

What a player can NOT do is select an auto melee weapon because there are none. A player with a disability cannot choose an auto firing option here. There are no choices so DE is adding the feature to address this so now ALL melees perform as an auto swing, which does not change the characteristics of the melee weapons. 

13 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

Honestly, it's not even just disabilities that would benefit, any aging biological system benefits. This may shock people but we did not evolve to click a button 200 times within 5-minute spans and activities that require that kind of physical behaviour tend to damage even healthy bodies. It's why in the 90s carpal tunnel and RSIs became such a huge issue the widespread commercial usage of computers suddenly introduced this behaviour to the masses.

Games have been bad for it for nearly as long, they used to call it "Nintendo thumb".

Agreed. I'm happy they are including this feature for melee.