Nullifiers should just be an Eximus type

[(PSN)PheonixFontaine]

Mechanically, they have as much impact if not more than other eximus.
An entire buildup of whatever just being canceled immediately for time invested is not healthy. (I dunno, drain or damper it.)
Eximus with nullifier shields is excessive mechanically. (No matter your level of cheese.)

That's it. End of thought.

[Pizzarugi]

You think nullies are bad, wait until you run into an eximus stronghold mission where you'll find null eximus with alarming amounts more frequency than you ever would if you left them as basic enemy units.

Also, it's too late to consider nullifier as an eximus type. There's too many standard unit versions with nullifier bubbles now.

[Numerounius]

No, Nullifiers in one enemy faction is already enough.

[Pakaku]

30 minutes ago, (PSN)PheonixFontaine said:

An entire buildup of whatever just being canceled immediately for time invested is not healthy. (I dunno, drain or damper it.)

Sure, they could be balanced. But they really aren’t that difficult to deal with as they currently are, even as Eximus Nullifiers

[MaxTunnerX]

Nullifiers are the reason why 1/3 of the frames are unplayable. Their stacks getting reset all the time by them and falling out of map and stuff like that. Terrible design. They would be better off just preventing ability use within their bubbles and being immunie to abilities.

Edited October 4, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[Pakaku]

36 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Nullifiers are the reason why 1/3 of the frames are unplayable. Their stacks getting reset all the time by them and falling out of map and stuff like that. Terrible design. They would be better off just preventing ability use within their bubbles and being immunie to abilities.

I didn't think popping a bubble was that difficult. Maybe it will hard-counter an emplacement, like a Gara wall or a giant Limbo bubble, but that's nowhere near 1/3

[Pizzarugi]

43 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Nullifiers are the reason why 1/3 of the frames are unplayable. Their stacks getting reset all the time by them and falling out of map and stuff like that. Terrible design. They would be better off just preventing ability use within their bubbles and being immunie to abilities.

They are a symptom. The source of the problem is that DE let player power get out of control. How many nuke frames do we have nowadays where you can press one ability and wipe the screen or even the entire room? Volt, Saryn, Mesa, Equinox, Ember, Mirage. They all have a nasty habit of being abused for one thing: Trivializing the game with one button. DE could nerf them, and they should, but that means having to deal with the immense amount of butthurt that would come from crutch mains who can no longer cheese the game, so they don't wanna do that. I mean, people are still upset that AoE weapons got nerfed. The backlash from nuke frame nerfs would be cataclysmic.

So what did they try and opt for instead? They introduced enemies that are walking nuke frame nerfs. They even added comba/bog/scrambus enemies to help that along. Energy drain eximus is another symptom. This is the corner the devs put themselves in.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Pizzarugi

[MaxTunnerX]

10 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

They are a symptom. The source of the problem is that DE let player power get out of control. How many nuke frames do we have nowadays where you can press one ability and wipe the screen or even the entire room? Volt, Saryn, Mesa, Equinox, Ember, Mirage. They all have a nasty habit of being abused for one thing: Trivializing the game with one button. DE could nerf them, and they should, but that means having to deal with the immense amount of butthurt that would come from crutch mains who can no longer cheese the game, so they don't wanna do that. I mean, people are still upset that AoE weapons got nerfed. The backlash from nuke frame nerfs would be cataclysmic.

So what did they try and opt for instead? They introduced enemies that are walking nuke frame nerfs. They even added comba/bog/scrambus enemies to help that along. Energy drain eximus is another symptom. This is the corner the devs put themselves in.

This has nothing to do with what you say. Nullifiers already block nukers by being immune to abilities. Its actually the "sophisticated" frames that need stacks to be good that suffer the most. In other words, its doing the very opposite of what youre saying, one button nukers are much better than stackers in terms of nullifiers.

Edited October 4, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[Pakaku]

26 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

This has nothing to do with what you say. Nullifiers already block nukers by being immune to abilities. Its actually the "sophisticated" frames that need stacks to be good that suffer the most. In other words, its doing the very opposite of what youre saying, one button nukers are much better than stackers in terms of nullifiers.

If you mean any warframe that loses those abilities when physically entering a bubble, my solution is simple: pay more attention to your surroundings and deal with the bubbles with an automatic pistol or amp

Edited October 4, 2023 by Pakaku

[MaxTunnerX]

3 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

If you mean any warframe that loses those abilities when physically entering a bubble, my solution is simple: pay more attention to your surroundings and deal with the bubbles with an automatic pistol or amp

Just no. There is no justification for this thing. Those frames already require like IQ 9000 to play (unlike others that work the same or better), its unacceptable to require even more skill.

Edited October 4, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[Pizzarugi]

1 minute ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Just no. There is no justification for this thing. Those frames already require like IQ 9000 to play (unlike others that work the same or better), its unacceptable to require even more skill.

Nah, I think having us apply situational awareness is a good thing. It helps prevent the game from being even more braindead than it already is. Literally just spin your camera around once in a while to make sure a nullifier isn't about to sneak up on you.

[Pakaku]

2 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Just no. There is no justification for this thing. Those frames already require like IQ 9000 to play (unlike others that work the same or better), its unacceptable to require even more skill.

I'm actually not sure if you're serious or not, but I'm hoping not. I really don't like the idea that Warframe has devolved to the point where we shut our brains off and still win

[MaxTunnerX]

10 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

I'm actually not sure if you're serious or not, but I'm hoping not. I really don't like the idea that Warframe has devolved to the point where we shut our brains off and still win

Like it or not, thats your thing, but truth is that its just not fair to have some frames be ez win ez nuke and not have to use any situational awarness, while other frames require deep statstick knowledge, ability knowledge AND situational awarness. And Im very much against racing to the bottom of the barrel. We shouldnt nerf ez frames, we should make hard frames easier instead. Or of course we could just fix nullifiers.

Edited October 4, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[Pizzarugi]

5 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Like it or not, thats your thing, but truth is that its just not fair to have some frames be ez win ez nuke and not have to use any situational awarness, while other frames require deep statstick knowledge, ability knowledge AND situational awarness. And Im very much against racing to the bottom of the barrel. We shouldnt nerf ez frames, we should make hard frames easier instead. Or of course we could just fix nullifiers.

But that's not true? Unless you're playing some completely oddball build that's only good at one niche thing, you don't need a stat stick or deep ability knowledge. Literally give any frame a Kuva/Tenet/Incarnon weapon, and they'll dominate the game just as easily as anyone else.

[Pakaku]

8 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Like it or not, thats your thing, but truth is that its just not fair to have some frames be ez win ez nuke and not have to use any situational awarness, while other frames require deep statstick knowledge, ability knowledge AND situational awarness. And Im very much against racing to the bottom of the barrel. We shouldnt nerf ez frames, we should make hard frames easier instead. Or of course we could just fix nullifiers.

It does not take much brainpower to equip an automatic weapon and save it as an anti-nullifier bubble tool. If you don't take the intiative to actually get better at playing the game, looking around you, and bringing the right tool to a mission you should expect nullifiers in, then it's no surprise you're failing.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Pakaku

[Tiltskillet]

52 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Its actually the "sophisticated" frames that need stacks to be good that suffer the most.

Generally speaking, self-buffing frames have a lot of advantages elsewhere in the game, so it sort of balances out.  Not that I'm against a few more  frames getting "nullification decay" mechanics rather than "nullification dispel".

 

26 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Those frames already require like IQ 9000 to play

If Harrow is one of those frames, I'm living proof that that's not true!

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Pakaku said:

I didn't think popping a bubble was that difficult. Maybe it will hard-counter an emplacement, like a Gara wall or a giant Limbo bubble, but that's nowhere near 1/3

39 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

1 hour ago, MaxTunnerX said:

This has nothing to do with what you say. Nullifiers already block nukers by being immune to abilities. Its actually the "sophisticated" frames that need stacks to be good that suffer the most. In other words, its doing the very opposite of what youre saying, one button nukers are much better than stackers in terms of nullifiers.

If you mean any warframe that loses those abilities when physically entering a bubble, my solution is simple: pay more attention to your surroundings and deal with the bubbles with an automatic pistol or amp

32 minutes ago, Pizzarugi said:

36 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:

Just no. There is no justification for this thing. Those frames already require like IQ 9000 to play (unlike others that work the same or better), its unacceptable to require even more skill.

Nah, I think having us apply situational awareness is a good thing. It helps prevent the game from being even more braindead than it already is. Literally just spin your camera around once in a while to make sure a nullifier isn't about to sneak up on you.

It's not that bubble is hard to deal (if you know what you are doing) but they are forcing you into certain style (e.g. fast rate of fire weapon). If it's 1 Nully then it's fine. If it's 3 Nullies in every room then your style becomes "deal with Nully or melt whole room before they appear".

 

[Pakaku]

6 minutes ago, quxier said:

It's not that bubble is hard to deal (if you know what you are doing) but they are forcing you into certain style (e.g. fast rate of fire weapon). If it's 1 Nully then it's fine. If it's 3 Nullies in every room then your style becomes "deal with Nully or melt whole room before they appear".

 

If we want to talk about "forced playstyles", then how about something like armour scaling forcing the viral/slash meta?

I don't see the issue in having a weapon in reserve just to make a mission a little easier to deal with. It doesn't even need to be considered a reserve weapon if it's strong enough to stand on its own anyways. If you can't give up a weapon slot, there are also amps out there with high fire rates.

[Tiltskillet]

13 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

If we want to talk about "forced playstyles", then how about something like armour scaling forcing the viral/slash meta?

I don't see the issue in having a weapon in reserve just to make a mission a little easier to deal with. It doesn't even need to be considered a reserve weapon if it's strong enough to stand on its own anyways. If you can't give up a weapon slot, there are also amps out there with high fire rates.

Melee works too as a fallback.

[quxier]

18 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

31 minutes ago, quxier said:

It's not that bubble is hard to deal (if you know what you are doing) but they are forcing you into certain style (e.g. fast rate of fire weapon). If it's 1 Nully then it's fine. If it's 3 Nullies in every room then your style becomes "deal with Nully or melt whole room before they appear".

 

If we want to talk about "forced playstyles", then how about something like armour scaling forcing the viral/slash meta?

Suuure, but what kind of content we are talking about? SP? Archons? Normal? Lich/sister? Normal content can be probably done with other damage types. SP & co is for "big numbers" hence some armor striping.

And you don't have to do viral/slash. You can do armor stripping using abilities (OP too). Or you can have some ridiculous damage. And you can still use viral/slash on lots of types of "things": 3 weapons, some abilities etc.

25 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

I don't see the issue in having a weapon in reserve just to make a mission a little easier to deal with. It doesn't even need to be considered a reserve weapon if it's strong enough to stand on its own anyways. If you can't give up a weapon slot, there are also amps out there with high fire rates.

Have you read my post? Have I make it unreadable (hard to understand)? If that's the case I'm sorry. It's fine to have 1 weapon's slot to deal with Nullies. It's not fine if you need to use that 1 weapon 90+% of the time.

[BiancaRoughfin]

4 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

You think nullies are bad, wait until you run into an eximus stronghold mission where you'll find null eximus with alarming amounts more frequency than you ever would if you left them as basic enemy units.

Also, it's too late to consider nullifier as an eximus type. There's too many standard unit versions with nullifier bubbles now.

Imagine them playing back when Nullies were first implemented? Its shield was far stronger, didnt have the drone to instantly pop it and also reflected Range damage delt which led most players to down them self when shooting it. :P

[MaxTunnerX]

2 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

But that's not true? Unless you're playing some completely oddball build that's only good at one niche thing, you don't need a stat stick or deep ability knowledge. Literally give any frame a Kuva/Tenet/Incarnon weapon, and they'll dominate the game just as easily as anyone else.

Im not saying you cannot play the frames. Im saying those frames are less OP than other frames if you dont use statsticks and the like, and if theyre less OP than other frames, why not just use those instead? Thats the whole point. Nobody in their right mind will build up charge forever to do what another frame can do without charging. Not when you can get sent back to 0 every time you lose focus for a second or even totally randomly (glitch, host migration).

5 minutes ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Imagine them playing back when Nullies were first implemented? Its shield was far stronger, didnt have the drone to instantly pop it and also reflected Range damage delt which led most players to down them self when shooting it. :P

Rofl, sounds like hell to me.

Edited October 4, 2023 by MaxTunnerX

[The_Royal_Elf_Mika]

always love playing a corpus mission in steel path and  having every room filled with like 5 nullifiers.

there is a reason Corpus is 1 of my least liked enemies, corruption spam them, but no where near how much the corpus does.

4 hours ago, quxier said:

It's not that bubble is hard to deal (if you know what you are doing) but they are forcing you into certain style (e.g. fast rate of fire weapon). If it's 1 Nully then it's fine. If it's 3 Nullies in every room then your style becomes "deal with Nully or melt whole room before they appear".

 

doesnt help when every nullifier you run into after a certain bit, are for some reason always a Eximus, always fun when there are 3+ Nullifiers and 2 of them are Guardians.

Edited October 4, 2023 by (NSW)Royal_Elf_Mika

[(NSW)Greybones]

Sure. Personally I quite like Nullifiers, though they haven’t been as much of a threat since I learned how to so more than just stand around relying on abilities

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

1 hour ago, (NSW)Royal_Elf_Mika said:

always love playing a corpus mission in steel path and  having every room filled with like 5 nullifiers.

there is a reason Corpus is 1 of my least liked enemies, corruption spam them, but no where near how much the corpus does.

doesnt help when every nullifier you run into after a certain bit, are for some reason always a Eximus, always fun when there are 3+ Nullifiers and 2 of them are Guardians.

There was a time in warframe's history where Arbitration Drones buff the nullifier drone while the Arbi drone was inside the bubble. Yeah that wasn't fun at all.