Why does Warframe only have 2 "super modes"?

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

No seriously: remember when Sevagoth was added and de announced he was the was the first frame with an exalted frame? It was so cool since he could power up and become a different, stronger Warframe that has its own abilities and stuff. 

Then we had Voruna. Everyone was hoping she would have an exalted mode or some werewolf transformation/power up, but instead we didn't get any.

We also have Nidus, but gaining stacks isn't really as obvious of a power up as Sevagoth, and it's mostly survivability + more damage. 

And of course, we have the first frame with a super mode: Gauss, who could charge up redline to 100%, get tons of attack speed, reload speed, and casting speed, halve the cost of his 1, buff his 2 into having near-invincibility, and turn his 3 into an instant aoe freeze/armor strip, which literally let him shred everything since it all scales off of duration. (Seriously, if you don't have him, get him, he's one of the 3 best male frames alongside Kullervo and Revenant.)

So my question is, if we already can see how strong Gauss is, and how cool Sevagoth is, how come we don't get any more exalted modes? I know we got incarnons which are basically super modes for weapons, but it would be nice to have more frames like Gauss where they become op, but in a way that's still balanced and fun. 

Not to mention, we still don't have a necramech frame, so why not make a frame who summons a mech with it's own abilities like Sevagoth and his shadow?

Oh yeah, as for "super mode" (since everyone keeps asking), I'll define it as "an empowered state that affects both someone and their abilities which typically involves charging it up or expending a ton of energy compared to their normal state," since that's typically how super modes are portrayed in media, and even though most "super modes" do actually require you to charge them up, we've already discussed that Xaku is kind of an exception to this (and technically Valkyr) due to heavy energy drains.

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[Pakaku]

So... how do we define a "super mode" exactly. Because we've had special modes all the way back to Valkyr and arguably even Excalbur. A lot of Warframes have their own special modes, but Sevagoth is the only real transforming Warframe, given his second form is moddable, and I see nothing wrong with keeping that special to him

Edited October 21, 2023 by Pakaku

[PollexMessier]

I'd say Valkyr's hysteria also counts.... if it hadn't massively fallen off in damage over the years. It needs a bit of a buff. Exalted meles in general really need access to the full list of mele mods and have capacity on their stances. Not be limited like they are.

And xaku's 4.... kinda counts? that one's debatable.

Edited October 21, 2023 by PollexMessier

[PollexMessier]

1 minute ago, Pakaku said:

Sevagoth is the only real transforming Warframe, given his second form is moddable, and I see nothing wrong with keeping that special to him

I'd argue Equinox transforms. And honestly it would be really nice if her forms were separately modable. Especially since they're two whole warframes spliced together.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

11 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

So... how do we define a "super mode" exactly. Because we've had special modes all the way back to Valkyr and arguably even Excalbur. A lot of Warframes have their own special modes, but Sevagoth is the only real transforming Warframe, given his second form is moddable, and I see nothing wrong with keeping that special to him

DE specifically made the distinction by saying sevagoth had an "exalted frame" which immediately separates it from an exalted weapon. The fact they said he was the "first" warframe with one of those abilities implies there would be more than one, like if I told someone Excalibur has an exalted weapon, they would probably assume (or at the very least ask me if) other frames had exalted weapons.

 

Most exalted weapons are simply weapons, with the exception of Valkyr (as PollexMessier pointed out), they simply add a special weapon to a frame, not buff the frame itself. 

I also would say Gauss has a super mode since he builds up a big meter that when full turns him super powerful with insane buffs (as i pointed out), and it's separate from other buffs like wisp or kullervo 1 by needing you to charge it up like sevagoth's shadow.

That's also why I said incarnons were effectively super modes, since weapons like innodem get special abilities from charging up their meter (or combo count) and activating the incarnon mode.

Edited October 21, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

18 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

I'd say Valkyr's hysteria also counts.... if it had'nt massively fallen off in damage over the years. It needs a bit of a buff. Exalted meles in general really need access to the full list of mele mods and have capacity on their stances. Not be limited like they are.

And xaku's 4.... kinda counts? that one's debatable.

Xaku's 4... I mean it kinda counts since it buffs his passive and freezes his other abilities while changing his appearance... but idk if that really counts since you could easily just spam it (pretty much any game mechanic involving a super mode has you be normal and then charge it up, or you unlocking it later in the game like for a boss fight or something, Xaku simply hands it to you the second you reach level 10). (edit: it actually does buff Xaku and all of his abilities a bunch so you could call it a super mode, but it's kinda weird considering you can literally refresh it while it's active so it stays on forever, which is even more busted than Protea refunding all of her abilities with her 4).

Valkyr's hysteria also would probably count... since it does technically buff the frame to becoming super powerful (and unlike Xaku it actually has an energy drain so you can't just use it forever without trying), but yeah it's kinda bad damage wise unless you run kullervo's 1, but I will say that because DE had to specifically cap it, that it's probably a "super mode", just not as obvious as Gauss or Sevagoth.

 

 

 

... Dang it, now I want Xaku...

Edited October 21, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[TARINunit9]

45 minutes ago, Pakaku said:

Because we've had special modes all the way back to Valkyr and arguably even Excalbur.

Valkyr predates Excalibur's Exalted Blade

But otherwise yes, OP is vague and his definition is fairly subjective

[taiiat]

44 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

(pretty much any game mechanic involving a super mode has you be normal and then charge it up, or you unlocking it later in the game like for a boss fight or something, Xaku simply hands it to you the second you reach level 10).

it's sounding like this "Category" requires a very long and convoluted explanation to define it, with a lot of rules of what it can and can't have, and otherwise being very weirdly specific.
Categories usually are broad sections with relatively loose terms/requirements, not very specific narrow features that must be included and everything else excluded.

[Hexerin]

1 hour ago, PollexMessier said:

I'd say Valkyr's hysteria also counts.... if it had'nt massively fallen off in damage over the years. It needs a bit of a buff. Exalted meles in general really need access to the full list of mele mods and have capacity on their stances. Not be limited like they are.

And xaku's 4.... kinda counts? that one's debatable.

All Valkyr needs is the Hysteria stance revamped to modern claw weapon standards. Its neutral and forward combos (both standing and blocking) need to be tripled in strength and their animation chains improved to flow better. Like, compare her stance:

Spoiler

To the lesser of the two generally used claw stances, Vermillion Storm:

Spoiler

It's night and f---ing day. To really rub it in, Vermillion Storm's forward block has one of the best combo animations in the game:

[Skoomaseller]

I'd argue that frames with exalted weapons are frames with "super modes"

[Raarsi]

Pretty much on the same boat of wanting to see more transformation-type mechanics for frames, but I also agree that the OP needs to broaden their perspective on what that means at both a visual and mechanical level since as it's been pointed out by other posters here, there are a lot more of those than you'd think since it's only really two qualifications: mechanical alteration (the number difference between the base form and the new form) and visual alteration (any difference of appearance between the base form and the new form).

As for "super-mode", that's literally just a subset of transformation effects where the mechanical alteration leads to net improvement between the base form and the new form, and the visual alteration is just an appearance that looks like an enhancement.  While the Redline ability for Gauss is a textbook example of this, this ironically rules out the OP's other example of Sevagoth, as there are a number of circumstances in which his Shadow can potentially be a net loss in terms of power compared to the base form because of sacrificing use of ranged weapons or not having the Shadow's claw weapons as well modded as your standard melee weapon.  As a result, Sevagoth's Shadow is simply an alternate form, falling in line with other such transformation effects such as Equinox's transformation or Atlas's Rumbled augment (which could use a buff too).

For other examples of "super-mode" abilities, Xaku's skeleton form definitely fits since it's a boost in power (doesn't necessarily have to be offensive power) and it has a visual effect.  Gyre's Rotorswell also fits this definition since it's also a power boost that makes a visual difference with her.  Titania's Razorwing form as well, which I'm surprised no one else has mentioned.  

Anyway, fun thought experiment.  Still don't think I'd put exalted weapon users into that category because whether or not it meets the qualifications depends on what standard weapon is getting replaced to channel that ability since if that weapon (like a good melee weapon) is statistically better than the exalted weapon (like say, Wukong's Iron Staff), then that ability clearly isn't a "super-mode", now is it?

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 3 horas, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT dijo:

No seriously: remember when Sevagoth was added and de announced he was the was the first frame with an exalted frame? It was so cool since he could power up and become a different, stronger Warframe that has its own abilities and stuff. 

Then we had Voruna. Everyone was hoping she would have an exalted mode or some werewolf transformation/power up, but instead we didn't get any.

We also have Nidus, but gaining stacks isn't really as obvious of a power up as Sevagoth, and it's mostly survivability + more damage. 

And of course, we have the first frame with a super mode: Gauss, who could charge up redline to 100%, get tons of attack speed, reload speed, and casting speed, halve the cost of his 1, buff his 2 into having near-invincibility, and turn his 3 into an instant aoe freeze/armor strip, which literally let him shred everything since it all scales off of duration. (Seriously, if you don't have him, get him, he's one of the 3 best male frames alongside Kullervo and Revenant.)

So my question is, if we already can see how strong Gauss is, and how cool Sevagoth is, how come we don't get any more exalted modes? I know we got incarnons which are basically super modes for weapons, but it would be nice to have more frames like Gauss where they become op, but in a way that's still balanced and fun. 

Not to mention, we still don't have a necramech frame, so why not make a frame who summons a mech with it's own abilities like Sevagoth and his shadow?

According to what you identify as ''super mode'' then the first would be Ember... although that is obviously not the case. Sevagoth is unique and I personally would prefer to leave it that way.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

6 hours ago, Raarsi said:

 ironically rules out the OP's other example of Sevagoth, as there are a number of circumstances in which his Shadow can potentially be a net loss in terms of power compared to the base form because of sacrificing use of ranged weapons or not having the Shadow's claw weapons as well modded as your standard melee weapon.  As a result, Sevagoth's Shadow is simply an alternate form, falling in line with other such transformation effects such as Equinox's transformation or Atlas's Rumbled augment (which could use a buff too).

 

Well yes and no: the difference is that Equinox can swap between the other forms whenever she wants, while Sevagoth has to fill up a meter.

Sevagoth's shadow would probably be considered a better Warframe than Sevagoth if it was standalone, but sadly there's the issue of helminth doing insane power scaling (Kullervo...) and if course guns and incarnons are really good.

Otherwise it's only Sevagoth's gloom that is good compared to the shadow, or at least that was the case until his augment came out.

Oh yeah, as for "super mode" I'll define it as an "empowered state that buffs the Warframe and it's abilities" since that's typically how super modes are portrayed in media, and even though most "super modes" do actually require you to charge them up, we've already discussed that Xaku is kind of an exception to this.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

6 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

I'd argue that frames with exalted weapons are frames with "super modes"

Ehh... More like a special weapon.

Only Excalibur really has a "new ability" added with his Exalted weapon (slide radial blind), and even then, DE made a distinction between Sevagoth's Exalted frame and other frames' Exalted weapons.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

8 hours ago, taiiat said:

it's sounding like this "Category" requires a very long and convoluted explanation to define it, with a lot of rules of what it can and can't have, and otherwise being very weirdly specific.
Categories usually are broad sections with relatively loose terms/requirements, not very specific narrow features that must be included and everything else excluded.

An empowered state that affects both someone and their abilities, typically involving charging up the empowered state or expending a ton of energy to maintain it.

Edited October 21, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

5 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

According to what you identify as ''super mode'' then the first would be Ember... although that is obviously not the case. Sevagoth is unique and I personally would prefer to leave it that way.

I never really used Ember but I do know she does have a meter. 

Care to explain?

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 1 hora, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT dijo:

I never really used Ember but I do know she does have a meter. 

Care to explain?

Fist of all her passive: 
Reveling in the heat of combat,  Ember gains 5% extra Ability Strength for every enemy burning with an active Heat status effect within a 50 meters radius.

• Ability Strength bonus and radius are not affected by Mods.
  
   

Abilities:

1. Fireball
2. Immolation
3. Fire Blast
4. Inferno

Immolation.

Protect Ember with flame armor that burns stronger over time, consuming energy once its meter is at full strength. Cast again to extinguish the flame.

Ember surrounds herself in a swirling torrent of protective flame that burns stronger with each moment. While immolated, a thermometer appears above the ability icons, gradually rising in temperature. Ember gains 10% / 20% / 30% / 40% damage reduction on cast displayed as a percent (%) next to the thermometer, which scales up to 50% / 65% / 75% / 85% damage reduction at maximum heat. Press the ability key.

 

• Immolation reduces Fireball's charge rate and increases the charged version's damage based on the amount of heat stored.
• Fire Blast's enemy armor reduction scales linearly with Immolation's heat level, with 0 percent heat resulting in the minimum value being removed and 100 percent heat resulting in the maximum.
• Inferno gains bonus damage in percent (%) equal to the current Immolation heat level.

 

Literally a super saiyan blue buff.

Edited October 21, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG
misspellings, Add text

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

4 minutes ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Fist of all her passive: 
Reveling in the heat of combat,  Ember gains 5% extra Ability Strength for every enemy burning with an active Heat status effect within a 50 meters radius.

• Ability Strength bonus and radius are not affected by Mods.
   

Ember 2nd ability: Immolation

Protect Ember with flame armor that burns stronger over time, consuming energy once its meter is at full strength. Cast again to extinguish the flame.

Ember surrounds herself in a swirling torrent of protective flame that burns stronger with each moment. While immolated, a thermometer appears above the ability icons, gradually rising in temperature. Ember gains 10% / 20% / 30% / 40% damage reduction on cast displayed as a percent (%) next to the thermometer, which scales up to 50% / 65% / 75% / 85% damage reduction at maximum heat. Press the ability key.

 

• Immolation reduces Fireball's charge rate and increases the charged version's damage based on the amount of heat stored.
• Fire Blast's enemy armor reduction scales linearly with Immolation's heat level, with 0 percent heat resulting in the minimum value being removed and 100 percent heat resulting in the maximum.
• Inferno gains bonus damage in percent (%) equal to the current Immolation heat level.
  
   

Literally a super saiyan blue buff.

Ah ok so it's like gauss where more meter = better abilities. 

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 13 minutos, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT dijo:

Ah ok so it's like gauss where more meter = better abilities. 

Personally, at least for me one of the best reworks of the game. Before the reword Ember did crazy damage but any enemy with bullets sponge archetype would kill her in seconds.

Nowadays if you build an ember tank it is one of the most reliable dps in the game. Yes, people are going to come and say that before it was better blablabla... before it was broken with her 4th ability and that all, the same with Grendel and Hydroid, they had super broken mechanics or abilities and were reworked to be good in a more general way.

And no I'm not main ember, but I play it her a lot.

Edited October 21, 2023 by CosoMalvadoNG

[SneakyErvin]

Yareli obviously... oh wait, you said super mode, not supper mode. Never leave home without fishsticks.

As to super mode, I wanna point out Baruuk. Managing the meter for near infinite arca plasmor Bruce Lee mode and close to immortality combined with the rest of the kit surely says super mode to me.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

a lot of frames have a meter or some other thing to micromanage that buffs you if you can be bothered to use it, but really, the frames themselves are supposed to be "super" enough already. it also depends on what theme(s) DE goes for when designing a frame; sometimes it isn't necessary, and then other times, like with Equinox or Sevagoth, it's a valid direction to go in.  

[brago90]

Every Warframe is built with a concept as a foundation upon which its appearance and kit are designed.

In the specific case of what you want, you would need a concept that would justify a Warframe being unable to constantly function at 100%.

For me personally, with this requirement, two concepts come to my mind:

Nuclear reactor: If it goes at full power for too long, it bursts, leaving the entire area unavoidable and destroyed

Siege gunner: In this case it would be a Warframe that due to the wars would have lost much of its original capabilities and depended on external machinery to develop its functions, the ability to bring a customized necramech to the battlefield included (Basically Ironman + Perturabo made Warframe)

[Currilicious]

Upcoming Warframe. Goku. Skill #4, after posing in a fight stance long enough, and taking a beating, transform into super saiyan mode.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

8 hours ago, Currilicious said:

Upcoming Warframe. Goku. Skill #4, after posing in a fight stance long enough, and taking a beating, transform into super saiyan mode.

Funnily enough, max duration Gauss really is like becoming Super Saiyan.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

10 hours ago, brago90 said:

 

 

10 hours ago, brago90 said:

Siege gunner: In this case it would be a Warframe that due to the wars would have lost much of its original capabilities and depended on external machinery to develop its functions, the ability to bring a customized necramech to the battlefield included (Basically Ironman + Perturabo made Warframe)

This was actually the reason for my post, because I realized the only  (reasonable) way another frame with an exalted mode would come out (unless DE specifically decides to make another one) would be to make a frame that summons a necramech in the same way Sevagoth summons his shadow

(whether or not it preforms like an actual necramech that's separate from the frame or if the Warframe itself goes inside the mech would be DE's choice, but I'd assume you'd summon the necramech by itself somewhere before doing either one in order to prevent getting stuck inside of objects).

Edited October 22, 2023 by (XBOX)Upl0rdYT