Who`s the demon helminth reffers to?

[SovietSilviu]

Sometimes helmith when you exit say i will await this demon return? Is this the operator? Or he calls the frames demons? Or is an entire separate entity?

[Skoomaseller]

he calls the operator/drifter the "void demon", so yes he's referring to us.

you can do this by holding the door to helminth open with your frame, then walking into the room with drifter/operator.

as for why he says that, I am not sure.

perhaps it's because the helminth, who is responsible for warframe upkeep & maintenance, sees us as a metaphorical/perhaps literal demon possessing bodies (we control warframes via transference), or perhaps it has something to do with us making a deal with Wally/MITW, and the helminth is somehow aware of that.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Skoomaseller

[ReddyDisco]

You

[Loza03]

As far as we know, it refers to the Operator. The Helminth (presumably due to being connected to the Warframes and thus sensing transference), is aware of at least part of what's going down regarding Wally, and views the Operator as an agent of it, willingly or unwillingly.

This fact terrifies the Helminth into obeying, presumably, in the ol' 'Make myself as useful as possible so they don't kill me/kills me last' type way. And given that the Infestation hasn't had an update since Deimos and is thus presumably relatively dormant right now, and the next time it's showing up appears to be it following Albrecht Entrati into the past/alternate timeline/whatever in Warframe 1999, we can assume the wider hive mind may have cottoned on and may be just as frightened. Which suggests just how powerful the Void and the Man in the Wall actually is.

[Skoomaseller]

12 minutes ago, ReddyDisco said:

You

me

[MagicalGirlMimi]

Also the Orokin as a whole seem to think this too; both in regards to us(Ballas going "If you can't kill the demon,", and Albrecht as well(a quote from the site has him resigned to calling himself a demon from the sounds of it)

Edited December 7, 2023 by MagicalGirlMimi

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

hace 3 minutos, Skoomaseller dijo:

me

us

[Hexerin]

Wasn't there something in the lore about Infested hate the Void / are unable to access the Void / are threatened by the Void or something? Would make sense then why Helminth has a certain underlying distaste for us (which if he does, really shows his strength of character that he still willingly supports us anyways).

[Aruquae]

57 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

he calls the operator/drifter the "void demon", so yes he's referring to us.

you can do this by holding the door to helminth open with your frame, then walking into the room with drifter/operator.

as for why he says that, I am not sure.

perhaps it's because the helminth, who is responsible for warframe upkeep & maintenance, sees us as a metaphorical/perhaps literal demon possessing bodies (we control warframes via transference), or perhaps it has something to do with us making a deal with Wally/MITW, and the helminth is somehow aware of that.

“The demon is awake?” 
 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I remember in the past there were people who legit didn't like the fact we're compared to demons, but to be fair, we possess immense amounts of power and kill armies every day so, what else COULD we be called? _{actually don't answer that..}

Anyway my helminth is only fed the best resources so even though i'm a demon i know it loves me really... I think...

[Loza03]

16 minutes ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

 what else COULD we be called? _{actually don't answer that..}

How 'bout I do anyway?

Angel is one option, and notably one we are called. Transcendence does has us levitate surrounded by radiant light with energy flowing out of our backs like wings. But anyway, in much Christian Mythology, Angels and Demons are functionally interchangable, the difference being who they work for. Indeed the term 'Angel' derives from Greek - Aggelos, pronounced Angelos. Indeed, the armies of heaven are typically described as being mightier as the armies of hell so one might make the argument that it's a more apt description, especially since Tenno also raise the weak and humble to power a lot. But of course, that would imply the being that empowers us is in any way 'good', which is... a dubious assertion at this time.

Of course, there's also more... eldritch inspirations. Perhaps you could refer to us as akin to the Folk of Leng from the Cthulhu mythos - creatures that live in dreams and serve, wittingly or otherwise, a dark god that seeks the fall of mankind and the spread of madness, akin to Nyarlathotep. If so, that suggests that the Man is not the master, but merely 'middle management' to an even greater, darker creature - some void-born Azathoth that Wally serves. Now THAT'S a concerning thought.

[Leqesai]

1 hour ago, Loza03 said:

How 'bout I do anyway?

Angel is one option, and notably one we are called. Transcendence does has us levitate surrounded by radiant light with energy flowing out of our backs like wings. But anyway, in much Christian Mythology, Angels and Demons are functionally interchangable, the difference being who they work for. Indeed the term 'Angel' derives from Greek - Aggelos, pronounced Angelos. Indeed, the armies of heaven are typically described as being mightier as the armies of hell so one might make the argument that it's a more apt description, especially since Tenno also raise the weak and humble to power a lot. But of course, that would imply the being that empowers us is in any way 'good', which is... a dubious assertion at this time.

Of course, there's also more... eldritch inspirations. Perhaps you could refer to us as akin to the Folk of Leng from the Cthulhu mythos - creatures that live in dreams and serve, wittingly or otherwise, a dark god that seeks the fall of mankind and the spread of madness, akin to Nyarlathotep. If so, that suggests that the Man is not the master, but merely 'middle management' to an even greater, darker creature - some void-born Azathoth that Wally serves. Now THAT'S a concerning thought.

Lol

 

[quxier]

2 hours ago, Loza03 said:

3 hours ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

 what else COULD we be called? _{actually don't answer that..}

How 'bout I do anyway?

Angel is one option, and notably one we are called. Transcendence does has us levitate surrounded by radiant light with energy flowing out of our backs like wings. But anyway, in much Christian Mythology, Angels and Demons are functionally interchangable, the difference being who they work for. Indeed the term 'Angel' derives from Greek - Aggelos, pronounced Angelos. Indeed, the armies of heaven are typically described as being mightier as the armies of hell so one might make the argument that it's a more apt description, especially since Tenno also raise the weak and humble to power a lot. But of course, that would imply the being that empowers us is in any way 'good', which is... a dubious assertion at this time.

There are already "Void angels".

[Loza03]

33 minutes ago, quxier said:

There are already "Void angels".

Ah you're right.

Also in the process of writing a witty response, I just remembered that the Folk of Leng aren't just from the Dreamlands, they're from the Dreamlands moon. And that's one TOO many coincidences given that DE definitely know their Lovecraft and aren't afraid to do deep cut literary references (Erra maps surprisingly well onto his mythological counterpart). And the Men of Leng could easily be mistaken for a classic demon, since they have horns, oversized mouths full of sharp teeth, and cloven hooves. So, the Tenno being mistaken for a Demon, whilst actually the servants of something far, far worse would map.

I might have stumbled onto something here, and this alarms me.

[quxier]

2 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

47 minutes ago, quxier said:

There are already "Void angels".

Ah you're right.

Also in the process of writing a witty response, I just remembered that the Folk of Leng aren't just from the Dreamlands, they're from the Dreamlands moon. And that's one TOO many coincidences given that DE definitely know their Lovecraft and aren't afraid to do deep cut literary references (Erra maps surprisingly well onto his mythological counterpart). And the Men of Leng could easily be mistaken for a classic demon, since they have horns, oversized mouths full of sharp teeth, and cloven hooves. So, the Tenno being mistaken for a Demon, whilst actually the servants of something far, far worse would map.

I might have stumbled onto something here, and this alarms me.

I wonder if they ever go that deep into the void lore. We had Zariman and main boss is just "enemy from the void". After so many years we don't really know too much about void or Man in the wall in particular.

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

hace 5 horas, Hexerin dijo:

Wasn't there something in the lore about Infested hate the Void / are unable to access the Void / are threatened by the Void or something?

Incarnon Toxocyst, Torid and Ichor;
"Well yes but actually no."

[Hexerin]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Incarnon Toxocyst, Torid and Ichor;
"Well yes but actually no."

Theoretically those are something more akin to warframes? Based off Infested tech, but modified/optimized, hence why canonically we require Cavalero's assistance to craft and adjust them (our ability to do so from the arsenal is just post-story quality of life / non-canon).

[Loza03]

7 minutes ago, quxier said:

I wonder if they ever go that deep into the void lore. We had Zariman and main boss is just "enemy from the void". After so many years we don't really know too much about void or Man in the wall in particular.

I mean, that's what the next arc is about. I'm pretty sure Whisper In the Walls is gonna enlighten us a bit.

Then again, DE kinda jumps between introducing a deep-cut reference to obscure Akkadian mythology and expertly interweaving him with a story about forgiveness, hate, loss, trauma and manipulation... and then dropping a surprise 180 heel-face turn for 5 minutes and killing him off with no aplomb with rocks.

So who really knows how DE's gonna tell the story. Least of all DE it sometimes feels.

[Circle_of_Psi]

4 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Angel is one option, 

I can do one better

Brat

[quxier]

7 hours ago, Loza03 said:

8 hours ago, quxier said:

I wonder if they ever go that deep into the void lore. We had Zariman and main boss is just "enemy from the void". After so many years we don't really know too much about void or Man in the wall in particular.

I mean, that's what the next arc is about. I'm pretty sure Whisper In the Walls is gonna enlighten us a bit.

Then again, DE kinda jumps between introducing a deep-cut reference to obscure Akkadian mythology and expertly interweaving him with a story about forgiveness, hate, loss, trauma and manipulation... and then dropping a surprise 180 heel-face turn for 5 minutes and killing him off with no aplomb with rocks.

So who really knows how DE's gonna tell the story. Least of all DE it sometimes feels.

Zariman were like this as (itroducing Ten-0 etc) well and we get... mess. Pre angel update "quest" (things posted in sites etc) were much better.

7 hours ago, Loza03 said:

no aplomb with rocks.

I know you mean small rocks (that most people can lift) but meteors are rocks as well. ;) That's what I liked about game Advent rising (stuff about rocks were from this game).

7 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

11 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Angel is one option, 

I can do one better

Brat

*click* Noice

[Elenortirie]

21 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Wasn't there something in the lore about Infested hate the Void / are unable to access the Void / are threatened by the Void or something? Would make sense then why Helminth has a certain underlying distaste for us (which if he does, really shows his strength of character that he still willingly supports us anyways).

That's Sentient. Void is poison for them. There is nothing I'd be aware off connecting infestation with the void in any way.

[Hexerin]

2 hours ago, Elenortirie said:

That's Sentient. Void is poison for them. There is nothing I'd be aware off connecting infestation with the void in any way.

Yea, I'm aware of the Sentient thing. Hmm... must just be that leaking into my memory of Infested since there's no interaction between Infested and the Void anywhere in the game as far as I'm aware of offhand.

[quxier]

4 hours ago, Elenortirie said:

On 2023-12-07 at 4:55 PM, Hexerin said:

Wasn't there something in the lore about Infested hate the Void / are unable to access the Void / are threatened by the Void or something? Would make sense then why Helminth has a certain underlying distaste for us (which if he does, really shows his strength of character that he still willingly supports us anyways).

That's Sentient. Void is poison for them. There is nothing I'd be aware off connecting infestation with the void in any way.

Isn't it just we are immune to infestation (afair) and we can control other beings (at least in quests)?

[Elenortirie]

17 hours ago, quxier said:

Isn't it just we are immune to infestation (afair) and we can control other beings (at least in quests)?

I do not recall any mention of tenno (operators) being immune to infestation, (tho considering how they are immune to death, then maybe?) warframes are "immune" because they are already infested - just using a very stable strain that seems to not be randomly spreading to others (helminth to be precise).

19 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Yea, I'm aware of the Sentient thing. Hmm... must just be that leaking into my memory of Infested since there's no interaction between Infested and the Void anywhere in the game as far as I'm aware of offhand.

Don't worry happens to (I'd hope) everyone :)

[Alguien]

On 2023-12-07 at 4:55 PM, Hexerin said:

Wasn't there something in the lore about Infested hate the Void / are unable to access the Void / are threatened by the Void or something? Would make sense then why Helminth has a certain underlying distaste for us (which if he does, really shows his strength of character that he still willingly supports us anyways).

Latrox Une did say the Deimos Infested were scared of something in the teaser for Whispers in the Walls, which now we know is Wally.
Also I am fairly sure it was said somewhere Infested hate/fear what they can't assimilate, which would fit with void beings