Outdated things in Warframe.

[PhantomDrifter]

1. Planet Bosses - Noticing the repetitive appearance of Captain Vor, Lich Kril. Bosses are annoying and easy at the same time; Some Bosses can be one shotted, and other bosses are still living because of invulnerabilities. Suggestion: Create additional bosses unique on each of every planet (Just like the Jackal) plus, make their HP just like Fragmented murmurs, no invulnerabilities just damage attenuation. making each boss battle longer and challenging. Change the Uranus and Sedna Boss Fighting Style, they are always hiding and its annoying.

2. Identical Maps - Missions on Venus, Pluto, Neptune - Mecury, Sedna etc... are really have same map design, Suggestions: at least give them unique designs just like Mars Jupiter, Earth an Ceres.

3. Remove Riven Disposition - Player are buying plats to buy better Riven, then suddenly got nerfed through dispositions. Suggestion: Buff Enemies, instead nerfing Rivens.

4. Update older Warframe Abilities and older Weapons Stats - no explanation needed.

5. Buff for Condition Overload, Blood-Rush, Weeping Wounds, Berserker, Gladiator Mods Meta - Nerfing this mods are the biggest mistakes, these mods must be buffed, for other melee weapons to shine and be useful not only for mastery ranking purpose. Suggestion: Better to buff enemies, instead nerfing weapons and mods.

6. The Fragmented One Rewards - The F1 is one of the best bosses ever made in the game, make it drop meaningful Rewards.

7. Excal Umbra Transference Bug - resets buff abilities after transference out/in.

8. Give Kullervo, Inaros, and Nidus a Shield (or Similar Buff) - HP only is not enough. there must be something like a shield equivalent to them.

9. Make Drifter walk more naturally just like the Operator

10. Make Dax Equitem appear more often in Duviri Mission - Fighting with him/her is really cool.

11. Make Drifter's Camp a little bit crowded with other brothers.

12. Make blood splats more obvious and brutal during fights.

13. Defense and Interception is kinda outdated mission types that every Tenno is dodging.

[Rathalio]

10 minutes ago, PhantomDrifter said:

3. Remove Riven Disposition - Player are buying plats to buy better Riven, then suddenly got nerfed through dispositions. Suggestion: Buff Enemies, instead nerfing Rivens.

5. Buff for Condition Overload, Blood-Rush, Weeping Wounds, Berserker, Gladiator Mods Meta - Nerfing this mods are the biggest mistakes, these mods must be buffed, for other melee weapons to shine and be useful not only for mastery ranking purpose. Suggestion: Better to buff enemies, instead nerfing weapons and mods.

6. The Fragmented One Rewards - The F1 is one of the best bosses ever made in the game, make it drop meaningful Rewards.

8. Give Kullervo, Inaros, and Nidus a Shield (or Similar Buff) - HP only is not enough. there must be something like a shield equivalent to them.

- No. Riven disposition is healthy and rivens were since the beginning designed to help balance out outdated and unpopular weapons and not to make your toys even more broken and create a greedy market. It's enjoyable if you get a ridiculous riven for an unpopular and less meta weapon and turn it into a war machine. Pushing meta weapons beyond their limits on the other end is just powercreep and the goal of rivens would absolutely not be respected.

- CO, Blood rush etc are more than fine as is? Melee isn't trash and never went to the point it really has been. And it just got fairly buffed. If there is an issue with melee, it's more about the gameplay given by some stances that can be annoying.

- No. Just like Pablo said on his twitter, this kind of boss is more of a challenge easter egg rather than anything else, they won't give a reason to farm this boss beyond getting the cosmetic trophy reward that is already there. And with how the boss is designed around denying most of what you can bring against him (to make sure no cheese would trivialise the challenge) it's a lot healthier to not encourage farming it.

- Kullervo has overguard gate and an easy way to refill quickly his overguard so it's more than fine. Nidus has his passive and very high resilience with his kit overall. Inaros sucks and always sucked, he needs a rework. Having only health for Inaros is not a design flaw, his whole kit is a design flaw tbh.

[Qriist]

26 minutes ago, PhantomDrifter said:

 Create additional bosses unique on each of every planet (Just like the Jackal)

I hate the Jackal. Way too much waiting around for boss to be vulnerable. Ropolyst has the same problem. 

 

26 minutes ago, PhantomDrifter said:

just damage attenuation.

n-n-n-, noooo please dear god no

 

26 minutes ago, PhantomDrifter said:

3. Remove Riven Disposition - Player are buying plats to buy better Riven, then suddenly got nerfed through dispositions. Suggestion: Buff Enemies, instead nerfing Rivens.

I mean, we could always just get rid of Rivens.

 

26 minutes ago, PhantomDrifter said:

4. Update older Warframe Abilities and older Weapons Stats - no explanation needed.

My dude. Explain.

 

26 minutes ago, PhantomDrifter said:

6. The Fragmented One Rewards - The F1 is one of the best bosses ever made in the game, make it drop meaningful Rewards.

Fully agree. Needs to be very slightly suspectible to abilities so ability-based kits are worth bringing, but otherwise is amazing.

 

26 minutes ago, PhantomDrifter said:

13. Defense and Interception is kinda outdated mission types that every Tenno is dodging.

I rather like interception. As for defense, I would prefer if all of them were updated to the 3 wave/eximus rush style found in Duviri. The difference in my enjoyment is night and day.

 

25 minutes ago, PhantomDrifter said:

8. Give Kullervo, Inaros, and Nidus a Shield (or Similar Buff) - HP only is not enough. there must be something like a shield equivalent to them.

On 2023-07-04 at 2:32 PM, Qriist said:

I'm generally opposed to overguard gating but I am okay with overguard totally absorbing the hit that downs it.

Having played Kullervo quite a bit I have come to my own dissenting conclusion.

[quxier]

2 hours ago, PhantomDrifter said:

 

2. Identical Maps - Missions on Venus, Pluto, Neptune - Mecury, Sedna etc... are really have same map design, Suggestions: at least give them unique designs just like Mars Jupiter, Earth an Ceres.

That's about tilesets. Sure, some on planet mission may have different tilesets but I wouldn't expect different ship tilesets.

2 hours ago, PhantomDrifter said:

3. Remove Riven Disposition - Player are buying plats to buy better Riven, then suddenly got nerfed through dispositions. Suggestion: Buff Enemies, instead nerfing Rivens.

What about people that don't use rivens? Oh, shoot... I need raise my power more... nah, that's not great.

 

[Vauban_3646]

Responding so some of this with my own opinions
1. Planet Bosses 

• Firstly, I strongly agree with the opinion that some planets need boss reworks BADLY (destroy the Seargent and finally add Derf Anyo please DE) but in terms of diversity we already have a few options Deimos, Jupiter, and Eris most notably but also the main archon hunt mission also count towards those planet's assassination achievements therefore can be considered bosses for those planets

2. Identical Maps 

• I don't think DE should go nuts with individual planet tilesets as at the very least the spaceships are mass produced but I do think giving the ships a unique color scheme to denote the planet/difficulty/even the main planet boss would be very cool

3. Remove Riven Disposition 

• The reason it exists in the first place it to keep the meta in check while also giving weaker weapons potential to shine, I would argue though that it is nuts that some rivens have better stats on the original than the upgrade as imo a small buff alone I feel isn't going to encourage someone to downgrade, sidegrade maybe but that shouldn't count

4. Update older Warframe Abilities and older Weapons Stats 

• They kinda are doing it with warframe reworks like the recent Hydroid rework and incarnons / other upgrade variant weapons do that but I do agree that some older weapons need general buffs to be viable nowadays aside from an incarnon/prisma/etc

5. Buff for Condition Overload, Blood-Rush, Weeping Wounds, Berserker, Gladiator Mods Meta 

• The reason they nerfed them in the first place was because players were relying too heavily on melee weapons instead of ranged weapons, if they were to revert the nerfs on top of the new melee additions no one would bother with an arca plasmor when they could nuke a room with just one sword swing, but to be fair I get that in a space ninja game using a sword like a ninja obviously makes the most sense

7. Excal Umbra Transference Bug

• Not necessarily a bug, more so to my technical understanding the way Umbra works is once you leave transference the game transforms your idle Umbra into an identical specter and inadvertently purges channeled abilities and buffs as a result of this transformation, the fix would be DE would have to keep your Umbra status memorized which would most effectively be done by hiding your original Umbra but then that could potentially create an Umbra specter infinite spawn glitch

8. Give Kullervo, Inaros, and Nidus a Shield (or Similar Buff)

• Overguard is Kullervo's shield alternative and Nidus can self res if the situation is dire, Inaros on the other hand suffers the most as even with a ton of armor Higher level enemies could still easily kill him if the player is not active enough so I agree he needs some more invincibility. If someone wants to quote me on Nidus's survivability via mutation stack res though you could suggest DE to restore his mutation stack revive requirement to the original 10 instead of the current 15 or alternatively work on a build that maximizes mutation stack gain

9. Make Drifter walk more naturally just like the Operator

• Afaik Drifter and Operator move virtually the same minus the slide/roll animation apparently being further on Drifter which then makes me ask do you mean make the Drifter move like he does in Diviri? To which I would agree, I personally think the Drifter and Operator should be more unique especially given that they both have different origins (post-zariman) and skills

11. Make Drifter's Camp a little bit crowded with other brothers.

• I think DE should really give us the option to further customize that area, If it were up to me I'd only let Kahl and Chipper stay and evict everyone else as they are either useless or redundant (specifically redundant: aside from aesthetic, the archon hunt tracker lady doesn't really need to be there when I can just go to navigation in my ship)

12. Make blood splats more obvious and brutal during fights.

• Hard agree, I don't typically play the game with gore enabled but I have been doing so recently and it's really disappointing that the most graphic it gets is when a grineer lancer gets chopped to pieces with barely any blood to indicate he is now missing his right arm and everything abdomen and below

13. Defense and Interception is kinda outdated mission types that every Tenno is dodging.

• ...until they need XP, then hydron suddenly becomes appealing. But in all seriousness those gamemodes are more annoying than challenging

[Tsukinoki]

9 hours ago, PhantomDrifter said:

just damage attenuation. making each boss battle longer and challenging

Ahh yes, lets make every boss a massive bullet sponge with zero mechanics!

Long does not mean "challenging" or "difficult".
It just means long.

And with how often you have to farm bosses it would just make it a horrible slog.

I mean most people wouldn't really call archons "challenging", let alone interesting/fun, they just call them bullet sponges....and you're suggesting that pretty much every single boss in the game become even worse versions of archons.

9 hours ago, PhantomDrifter said:

Better to buff enemies, instead nerfing weapons and mods.

And please tell me which is easier, faster, and overall better?

Buffing the enemies to the power level of the strongest gear, therefore making every thing else useless and also making the best gear "worse" because now it takes longer for them to kill anything, and then go through a massive cycle of buffing every now worthless weapon.
Or
Nerfing the outliters of strength down a few pegs.

They both arrive at the same conclusion.
After all what is really different in dealing ten thousand damage to an enemy with a million HP, or dealing ten million damage to an enemy with a billion HP?

9 hours ago, PhantomDrifter said:

The Fragmented One Rewards - The F1 is one of the best bosses ever made in the game, make it drop meaningful Rewards.

Hek no.

The boss is a nice thing to do once or twice.

But can you imageine the slow and painful slog of fighting that boss over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over (and collecting 60 eyes each and every single time) to try to grind away for its rare rewards?

It would quickly become one of the most hated things in the game.

It's a fine trophy boss and nothing more, and really shouldn't be anything more.

Edited January 1 by Tsukinoki

[ominumi]

People really enjoy Defense. Just look at Hydron. 

Hard Mode boss is fine without extra reward for the effort. Just look at John Prodman. It's meant for the thrill seeker. Not the meta chaser.

We don't need different tileset for each Celestrail Body. It adds to the familiar of the fraction. BUT Infested needs their own distinct tilesets. Not just Corpus and Grineer tileset with Infested matter over them.

[Steel_Rook]

21 hours ago, Rathalio said:

- Kullervo has overguard gate and an easy way to refill quickly his overguard so it's more than fine. Nidus has his passive and very high resilience with his kit overall. Inaros sucks and always sucked, he needs a rework. Having only health for Inaros is not a design flaw, his whole kit is a design flaw tbh.

What exactly is wrong with Inaros? He's by far the tankiest Warframe in the game and has some of the best CC around.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

7 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

What exactly is wrong with Inaros? He's by far the tankiest Warframe in the game and has some of the best CC around.

I'm gonna need some examples of that CC because I find all of his abilities to be absolutely horrible and useless.

As for being tanky. How's Qorvex holding? That Armor is MASSIVE and has shields too.

[Steel_Rook]

1 minute ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

I'm gonna need some examples of that CC because I find all of his abilities to be absolutely horrible and useless.

Dessication is a cheap, medium-range AoE stun that can be spammed quite easily. Devour can be used as a long-range single-target hold. Scarab Swarm is hands-down one of the best AoE control abilities, as it lasts a long time and can self-spread across effectively infinite numbers of enemies. Obviously, dedicated CC frames like Vauban do better, but Inaros combines very strong CC with extreme tankiness.

 

5 minutes ago, (PSN)Sentiel said:

As for being tanky. How's Qorvex holding? That Armor is MASSIVE and has shields too.

Qorvex is certainly quite tanky, as well, no argument there. However, he also has fairly low health. Ignoring the effects of mod build (as I'd build them the same anyway), Qorvex has 600 base health with 875 armour and 200 base shields with 50% damage resistance. Inaros Prime has 2215 base health with 240 + 200 armour. This gives Qorvex 600 + 600*(875/300) = 2 350 health and 200/(1 - 0.5) = 400 shields. Shield gate aside, that's 2750 EHP. Inaros, in contrast, has 2215 + 2215*(440/300) = 5 464 EHP. That's significantly more overall durability just on base stats.

The primary source of Inaros' durability, though, is Arcanes. Arcane Guardian can offer a maximum of 900 bonus armour effectively permanently, while Arcane Grace can heal for 6% of max health per second with an ALMOST permanent uptime under fire. Inaros' extremely high health grants him a tremendous amount of passive sustain while the bonus armour closes the gap towards Warframes with more armour (like Atlas and Qorvex).

And all of that entirely disregards kit. Qorvex has no sustain in his own kit, beyond admittedly very reliable status protection. Inaros has three separate heals, though admittedly Dessicate is basically useless for healing. Devour is a decent emergency button as it can heal Inaros to full and render him invulnerable. But it's Devouring Swarm that steals the show there. With enough Power Strength and enough enemies affected, that ability can provide a tremendous amount of passive healing - healing which affects the rest of the team as well, incidentally.

Don't get me wrong - Inaros is definitely outdated just due to sheer power creep. Grendel can do most of what Inaros can on top of outright removing enemies from the field (although he lacks the massive CC) and Kullervo is basically a bastard lovechild of Inaros and Rhino. I'm not saying that Inaros wouldn't benefit from a redesign. I'm just saying that his current design absolutely holds up in modern Warframe.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

2 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Dessication is a cheap, medium-range AoE stun that can be spammed quite easily. Devour can be used as a long-range single-target hold. Scarab Swarm is hands-down one of the best AoE control abilities, as it lasts a long time and can self-spread across effectively infinite numbers of enemies. Obviously, dedicated CC frames like Vauban do better, but Inaros combines very strong CC with extreme tankiness.

 

Qorvex is certainly quite tanky, as well, no argument there. However, he also has fairly low health. Ignoring the effects of mod build (as I'd build them the same anyway), Qorvex has 600 base health with 875 armour and 200 base shields with 50% damage resistance. Inaros Prime has 2215 base health with 240 + 200 armour. This gives Qorvex 600 + 600*(875/300) = 2 350 health and 200/(1 - 0.5) = 400 shields. Shield gate aside, that's 2750 EHP. Inaros, in contrast, has 2215 + 2215*(440/300) = 5 464 EHP. That's significantly more overall durability just on base stats.

The primary source of Inaros' durability, though, is Arcanes. Arcane Guardian can offer a maximum of 900 bonus armour effectively permanently, while Arcane Grace can heal for 6% of max health per second with an ALMOST permanent uptime under fire. Inaros' extremely high health grants him a tremendous amount of passive sustain while the bonus armour closes the gap towards Warframes with more armour (like Atlas and Qorvex).

And all of that entirely disregards kit. Qorvex has no sustain in his own kit, beyond admittedly very reliable status protection. Inaros has three separate heals, though admittedly Dessicate is basically useless for healing. Devour is a decent emergency button as it can heal Inaros to full and render him invulnerable. But it's Devouring Swarm that steals the show there. With enough Power Strength and enough enemies affected, that ability can provide a tremendous amount of passive healing - healing which affects the rest of the team as well, incidentally.

Don't get me wrong - Inaros is definitely outdated just due to sheer power creep. Grendel can do most of what Inaros can on top of outright removing enemies from the field (although he lacks the massive CC) and Kullervo is basically a bastard lovechild of Inaros and Rhino. I'm not saying that Inaros wouldn't benefit from a redesign. I'm just saying that his current design absolutely holds up in modern Warframe.

Thank you very much for this explanation.

You made me give Inaros another chance!

[Rathalio]

1 hour ago, Steel_Rook said:

What exactly is wrong with Inaros? He's by far the tankiest Warframe in the game and has some of the best CC around.

He's not really the tankiest warframe x)

His CC on his 1st abilitiy is decent, yet forces a very slow gameplay if you go for finishers. His 2nd and 3rd ability are notoriously terrible. He's 4th ability really shines with his augment only and his mostly a passive ability, because releasing the scarab curse thing lacks so much propagation range (5m unaffected by mods) and overall all his kit scales poorly with mods otherwise. But yes, I agree, it would be a very good CC and healing ability if it was really able to spread properly.

Overall you just play him in mid level content to ignore the fact you have HP to deal with because no enemies will be able to deal with this stats at this point. But then Inaros still doesn't have that much armor and lacks any damage reduction ability, he just has a lot of health that's it. He will get killed easily in Steel path content if you stay more than 10mins in. He's definitely outclassed by many other warframes that relies on tanking with health, especially since Inaros barely provides anything outside of some tankiness. Nidus has good CC and damage for instance, Chroma brings huge weapon buffs and Grendel also provides armor strip and weapon buffs and DPS abilities while carrying extremely close stats compared to Inaros. And then you can also think about other ways of tanking, Hildryn with her shield regeneration together with adaptation has nothing to envy to Inaros and she brings useful abilities to the table too. And then if you really just want to tank and don't care much about your abilities you still have Mr. Revenant that owns his very broken Mesmer skin.

[Steel_Rook]

2 hours ago, Rathalio said:

Overall you just play him in mid level content to ignore the fact you have HP to deal with because no enemies will be able to deal with this stats at this point. But then Inaros still doesn't have that much armor and lacks any damage reduction ability, he just has a lot of health that's it. He will get killed easily in Steel path content if you stay more than 10mins in.

That's simply not true. My Inaros is functionally unkillable in pretty much any content I've taken him to, and that's without me actually using any of his abilities to heal. That's including Steel Path. In fact, as a test before writing this very sentence, I went and did a Netracell mission with Inaros - that's level 240 enemies. Health never dropped below 7000, and shot back up to full as soon as Grace kicked in. Obviously, I have a pretty "expensive" build on Inaros, being that he's my darling baby, but the most impactful things on him are the Arcanes. Guardian and Grace make him functionally immortal.

In that Netracell mission, I took my hands off the controls for like a minute, in the middle of the throng of enemies towards the end. Health didn't budge. And it was pretty easy to Scarab all of them, too. Inaros does have issues, but survivability isn't really one of them.

 

*edit*
Just for the sake of completeness: my Inaros sits at 9206 health, 672 armour + 200 armour from Scarab Armour +900 armour from Arcane Guardian, ~552 health per second of passive regen from Arcane Grace. That's an effective health of ~63 583, with effective healing of ~3812 health per second. That's not counting Adaptation. He CAN die - Accolytes and some bosses deal just stupid amounts of spike damage. But for most content? I can clock out for lunch and go back to a full-health Inaros, up to pretty much any level I've tried him on.

Edited January 1 by Steel_Rook

[Rathalio]

47 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

That's simply not true. My Inaros is functionally unkillable in pretty much any content I've taken him to, and that's without me actually using any of his abilities to heal. That's including Steel Path. In fact, as a test before writing this very sentence, I went and did a Netracell mission with Inaros - that's level 240 enemies. Health never dropped below 7000, and shot back up to full as soon as Grace kicked in. Obviously, I have a pretty "expensive" build on Inaros, being that he's my darling baby, but the most impactful things on him are the Arcanes. Guardian and Grace make him functionally immortal.

In that Netracell mission, I took my hands off the controls for like a minute, in the middle of the throng of enemies towards the end. Health didn't budge. And it was pretty easy to Scarab all of them, too. Inaros does have issues, but survivability isn't really one of them.

 

*edit*
Just for the sake of completeness: my Inaros sits at 9206 health, 672 armour + 200 armour from Scarab Armour +900 armour from Arcane Guardian, ~552 health per second of passive regen from Arcane Grace. That's an effective health of ~63 583, with effective healing of ~3812 health per second. That's not counting Adaptation. He CAN die - Accolytes and some bosses deal just stupid amounts of spike damage. But for most content? I can clock out for lunch and go back to a full-health Inaros, up to pretty much any level I've tried him on.

The problem is that his only perk is health tanking with which we already have a lot of other options that all bring more to the table than Inaros and have more than just 2 on 4 functional skills. And yes for most content he will survive, I was surely exaggerating his survivability limits but that doesn't change the point. Most of other Warframes survive very well too against every basic units at this point thanks to their abilities and/or stats and can struggle against enemies like accolytes too. And generally in the biggest part of the game EVERY Warframe can do well, there is no exception. Although they all bring more than just health tanking and overall most of them also help teamplay in different ways, Inaros doesn't really. And when your warframe is only about health tanking which has its limits, it would have to be almost perfect to make sense to sacrifice all your gameplay for only more health tanking. So Inaros getting killed quite easily by accolytes sucks 10 times more than for any other warframes. That's the only relevant argument he has for him yet it's not good enough. And truthfully the fact his 2nd and 3rd ability are beyond forgettable is a real shame in his kit. Maybe if these abilities were greater we could excuse him his weaknesses on tanking, but unfortunately we are far from that today.

[Steel_Rook]

23 minutes ago, Rathalio said:

Although they all bring more than just health tanking and overall most of them also help teamplay in different ways, Inaros doesn't really. And when your warframe is only about health tanking which has its limits, it would have to be almost perfect to make sense to sacrifice all your gameplay for only more health tanking.

Uh... Inaros is not "only about health tanking". Are we forgetting that he also has considerable crowd control and ally heals? Scarab Swarm is a 15 second base AoE hold with a wide range on initial cast and the capacity to spread to an infinite number of enemies - which it commonly does regardless of the limited range of spread. Enemies move around. Again - I know there are other Warframes which can do this - Vauban, Nyx, Volt, etc. Those 'Frames are not tanks and don't offer this amount of healing.

This is going into "tell me you haven't played Inaros without telling me" territory, to be perfectly honest. You're telling me things about him which are not even remotely true and either deliberately or accidentally ignoring arguments that you've acknowledged - so I know you didn't just miss them. I have carried teams with me through Archon Hunts on the weight of that crowd control and heal - and on being the one member of the team who doesn't get wiped by the Steel Path level enemies. I'm aware that a lot of Warframes are able to survive high level content if played smart, but my experience with pubbie teams does not reflect this.

 

31 minutes ago, Rathalio said:

And truthfully the fact his 2nd and 3rd ability are beyond forgettable is a real shame in his kit. Maybe if these abilities were greater we could excuse him his weaknesses on tanking, but unfortunately we are far from that today.

You keep asserting that, but you've yet to demonstrate it. Sandstorm is bad, yes, but predominantly because it locks the player's use of weapons and other abilities. Devour is objectively not terrible. It's a fairly cheap really-long-distance hold which works well to incapacitate individual dangerous enemies. It's not the BEST ability in the game, but I'd argue that not a single Warframe exists where all four abilities are worth much. Best case scenario, the Warframe's individual design holds abilities hostage by splitting mechanics across multiple ones when they really didn't need to. Rhino's Charge is a prime example of this. It's a genuinely terrible ability that's used only for the sake of Ironclad Charge.

Again, I'm not claiming that Inaros is DA BEST WARFRAME EVAAA!!! More broken 'Frames exist. I'm arguing that he has a broad ability set with plenty of team support and among THE highest survivability in the entire game. And that's passive survivability, as well. Inaros doesn't need to maintain Iron Skin or Overguard or control enemies or reactivate buffs or anything of the sort. With a decent enough build (i.e. a couple of Arcanes), he can simply face-tank pretty much anything that wouldn't one-shot literally everyone else.

[Rathalio]

2 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Uh... Inaros is not "only about health tanking". Are we forgetting that he also has considerable crowd control and ally heals? Scarab Swarm is a 15 second base AoE hold with a wide range on initial cast and the capacity to spread to an infinite number of enemies

15m base healing range is not what I call "wide range" in warframe standards especially when it relies on a 5m fixed spread radius that is very ineffective without a way reliable to force the enemies into grouping.

3 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Devour is objectively not terrible.

Can't kill enemies at all past a few levels (just like his passive that wasn't even mentioned so far), and so either fails to spawn sand clones or relies on other ways to kill it. It also doesn't work on any real threat as most of them are immune to such CC. The only reliable thing is the healing but your 1 and 4 provide that already, so what for? And his 1st ability augment is a much more efficient way to spawn sand clones all together. So I really don't see what devour really adds at all.

 

What sounds very surprising to me is that you seem to hear the kind of critics I have towards Inaros' kit for the first time? Which I find a bit weird since it's been criticized repeatedly for years in the community and more than many agree that there are definitely issues to be addressed on that topic. I thought nothing had to be proved anymore on that topic.

And remember that you asked me what was wrong with Inaros, and claimed it was the tankiest warframe in the game. I gave you already a lot of details why it wasn't the case and what were the issues, yet you seem to never be satisfied.

PS : Rhino's charge is indeed terrible because it has to be paired with its augment to make Iron skin scale better. It also doesn't really serve any other practical purpose as the charge itself is only a silly fun ability and not much of a functional one. But Rhino even though I'd love to see him getting some changes at least brings a very good CC that affects most of immune enemies and give a very neat buff for himself and allies together with being resilient.

[Steel_Rook]

27 minutes ago, Rathalio said:

And remember that you asked me what was wrong with Inaros, and claimed it was the tankiest warframe in the game. I gave you already a lot of details why it wasn't the case and what were the issues, yet you seem to never be satisfied.

Be...cause you're wrong? Yeah, I'm not satisfied, when your assessment on Inaros seems to based entirely on what other people have said about him, and possibly from looking at his abilities on the Wiki. Or were you expecting me to hear "oh, he can't play Steel Path" and just accept that? I asked for what's wrong with Inaros in search for information, and most of what I've gotten back so far is at best hearsay. I tried to explain this, but you simply either ignored my questions or hand-waved them away. I don't mean to pick a fight, but there's very little of value here if we can't even agree on objective reality. And considering something like 60% of my playtime is on Inaros, I tend to have a pretty high bar for claims that my experience with him is just wrong.

 

31 minutes ago, Rathalio said:

15m base healing range is not what I call "wide range" in warframe standards especially when it relies on a 5m fixed spread radius that is very ineffective without a way reliable to force the enemies into grouping.

You keep citing "5 meter spread radius". Have you actually tried using Scarab Swarm in the game proper. Like grab your Inaros (I presume you have one), go into any decently high-level mission with enough enemies to justify CC in the first place and throw out a Swarm. See how far that spreads. Because in my own experience, it spreads out more than far enough. Enemies walking towards the initial few targets become infected, which then infects others and it chains from there. Unless all you care about is Free Roam maps where enemies are spread across an acre, this is more than enough.

And no, the healing distance isn't too short, either. It can't heal people sniping from a room away, fair enough, but it'll heal anyone in close-to-mid range of the enemy, which are typically the ones taking all the damage. Since Warframe doesn't have a "taunt" mechanic (that I'm aware of, and I don't feel like checking mid-sentence), team-mates are going to get shot and Scarab Swarm offers plenty of healing for anyone who isn't sitting on 9000 health. Which is most everyone else.

 

34 minutes ago, Rathalio said:

Can't kill enemies at all past a few levels (just like his passive that wasn't even mentioned so far), and so either fails to spawn sand clones or relies on other ways to kill it. It also doesn't work on any real threat as most of them are immune to such CC. The only reliable thing is the healing but your 1 and 4 provide that already, so what for? And his 1st ability augment is a much more efficient way to spawn sand clones all together. So I really don't see what devour really adds at all.

No, Devour isn't going to kill enemies, because it's not an attack. It's hardly the only such ability. It's a reliable CC. Yes, I'm aware that Overguard enemies are immune, but that applies to all CC. So unless you want to expand the discussion to Overguard and CC balance in general, I don't see the point in discussing it. Devour suffers no more from Overguard than Dessicate or Scarab Swarm or Petrify or Bastile. And indeed, no more so than Feast. I'm not arguing that it's a GREAT ability. Just that it's not something you can write off as "terrible". It has its uses, albeit somewhat limited such.

 

37 minutes ago, Rathalio said:

What sounds very surprising to me is that you seem to hear the kind of critics I have towards Inaros' kit for the first time? Which I find a bit weird since it's been criticized repeatedly for years in the community and more than many agree that there are definitely issues to be addressed on that topic. I thought nothing had to be proved anymore on that topic.

I disagree. If the "critics" you're presenting here are anything to go by, then those very much need to be backed up with something - facts, arguments, math, something. Because on face value, they make no sense and don't comport in the slightest with actual lived-in reality. You may as well be telling me that Inaros has one leg and three arms, then acting surprised at how I could have never noticed. I'm not immune to reason, but I'm going to need something more substantive than naked assertions which are - near as I can tell - false on their face.

 

47 minutes ago, Rathalio said:

But Rhino even though I'd love to see him getting some changes at least brings a very good CC that affects most of immune enemies and give a very neat buff for himself and allies together with being resilient.

Which CC is that? Neither Rhino Charge nor Rhino Stomp appear to affect Overguard enemies. At least, not that I've been able to replicate, at least - and I did just try that in the Simulacrum.

[Xzorn]

1. Planet Bosses -

They can't do much about bosses. Power creep will keep beating them. Look at poor Sergent for reference.

2. Identical Maps -

Some I would get behind. Like normal Grineer tileset fits Sedna more than Saturn given Sedna is a rock in space.
Unfortunately they already used the cloud city idea on Jupiter which would have fit Venus better.

3. Remove Riven Disposition - 

They won't. Rivens were a cash cow. Inarnons being the more "real" and effective variant.
One thing they should do is have the lowest be 0.7x not 0.6x which is near impossible the roll.
Another perk of Rivens could be they don't take up capacity which would justify sub-part rolls and help capacity issues.

4. Update older Warframe Abilities and older Weapons Stats - 

The old frames remain some of the best in the game so outside some clunky animations I can't see where this is going.

5. Give Kullervo, Inaros, and Nidus a Shield (or Similar Buff)

Nidus is a beast. Not sure what's going on there. Inaros got better after the Armor double dip though boring.
Kullervo is confused design. Mostly because he's a melee frame and blocking doesn't mitigation for Overguard. He has Valkyr syndrome where frames not limited to melee can melee better. For instance, even though Rhino has the same Overguard issue he instantly gets 50-200k unlike Kullervo requiring multiple casts.

6. Make Drifter walk more naturally just like the Operator

I would like if they made them both a bit faster and expanded on their combat capacity.  A void "sling" interaction doesn't really cut it.

[Rathalio]

2 hours ago, Steel_Rook said:

Which CC is that? Neither Rhino Charge nor Rhino Stomp appear to affect Overguard enemies. At least, not that I've been able to replicate, at least - and I did just try that in the Simulacrum.

Stomp significantly slows down enemies with overguard & bosses instead of lifting them up. That's the only hard CC that works and is intended to work.

[Steel_Rook]

1 hour ago, Rathalio said:

Stomp significantly slows down enemies with overguard & bosses instead of lifting them up. That's the only hard CC that works and is intended to work.

Hm. OK, I'll definitely have to try that out. Thanks for the heads-up.

[Lord_Drod]

@Steel_RookYou know Inaros can easily get oneshot if he's hit by those fireballs in archon missions, and then you have the worst passive in the game unable to self revive.  I recall a vid of an inaros running to extract after archon boss and was oneshot on the way there, 10k HP gone in seconds.  He starts getting killed with your setup in the 300s? in SP, where shield gate frames are perfectly fine at those levels.  In general, he is good at cheesing the bulk of the game and you seem more adept with him than most.  I did not know anyone even used devour, just his 1 and 4.

Edited January 3 by Lord_Drod

[NorthernDarkIceSoul]

Nice suggestion, to bad it's not beneficial for corporation

[Steel_Rook]

10 hours ago, Lord_Drod said:

@Steel_RookYou know Inaros can easily get oneshot if he's hit by those fireballs in archon missions, and then you have the worst passive in the game unable to self revive.  I recall a vid of an inaros running to extract after archon boss and was oneshot on the way there, 10k HP gone in seconds.  He starts getting killed with your setup in the 300s? in SP, where shield gate frames are perfectly fine at those levels.  In general, he is good at cheesing the bulk of the game and you seem more adept with him than most.  I did not know anyone even used devour, just his 1 and 4.

I can't speak to level 300 content as nothing in the game has that without specifically looking for it. However, I've never had him die in Archon Hunts (and I've done quite a few) nor in Netracell missions. About the only thing that has consistently killed my Inaros is the Acolyte that ragdolls you and then two-shots you. I don't have any Warframes who can survive that. I guess he may have indeed been eclipsed by newer 'Frames, like my Grendel sitting on 5000 health and I don't even know how much armour (2000 from Feast, 900 from Guardian, something like 800 from the Warframe) AND a 3K raw heal off of Nourish. I've basically swapped over to Grendel full time by this point :)

Mind you, I'm not opposed to a redesign for Inaros. My personal desire is to see Sandstorm turned into a static objective defence ability, like a large-scale location-based Zephyr Turbulence ability. There was also an Inaros redesign thread a couple years back where we through around the idea of... basically Payday 2's Stoic ability. Take only some of the damage up-front, transform the rest of the damage into DOT, cast an ability to burn the DOT for... something. I don't remember exactly, but I think the point was to take damage and then use that damage to cast abilities with.

Inaros is an old Frame and he's definitely not perfect. I just don't think he "sucks", not even close. Nor do I think he's significantly outclassed. He was so stupidly overpowered during his heyday that even now with a only two good abilities and one OK one, he's still extremely powerful.

[Famecans]

1. Planet Bosses
Bosses from the past are aimed at low level outdated content and should not be buffed again for example, Tridolons were recently reduced with the releases of necramech and incarnon but it was not a fair reduction as shields are still a clumsy mechanic aimed at endgame players. Tridolons are an example that outdated bosses should not be buffed as the new content will organically nerf them. I agree that some bosses have the old theme mechanics and animations, but they should not have improvements in terms of damage and health because the buffs on bosses and enemies must be related to map modifiers similar to what we have in Steel Pach, Archon Hunt and Arbitrations.

2. Identical Maps
updating is a constant process of never-ending growth, changes are always arriving and becoming outdated all the time.

3. Remove Riven Disposition
Firstly, Riven Disposition should never be reduced as the new content is intended to challenge the veteran player, moving on I can say that Riven Disposition should remain in the game but it needs to be associated with the mod's MR level and not the weapon's interface, in this case if the DE thinks Soma's riven mod MR8 has potential above MR8 all Soma's mod rivens will increase +1.

4. Update older Warframe Abilities and older Weapons Stats.
Well, new mods, augment, arcana, riven mods are made for this purpose, to give usefulness to underestimated weapons... as I mentioned before, the damage buff must go to the player through indirect and organic additions made by the developers while the nerfs must go against the player through enemies and endgame mechanics.

5. Buff for Condition Overload, Blood-Rush, Weeping Wounds, Berserker, Gladiator Mods Meta.
I agree. just reinforcing what I just wrote in the previous paragraph, Most nerfs will be a mistake when there is the possibility of leveling unique enemies against specific overpowered mechanics. Now the DE will have to rework mechanics unfairly reworked in the past. I think all of this would have been resolved in the past if the development team was split, tenno vs enemies.

The DE gives us powers to fight existing enemies and then the DE must fight our powers by creating enemies against our builds, this is the intermittent cycle. Logically these enemies should not target weak warframes, these enemies should target warframes, broken skill or creative mechanics naturally discovered by players.

6. The Fragmented One Rewards.
I disagree, The fragmented is the boss with the most dynamic and fun mission in the game but it is not the most difficult in terms of complexity, the difficulty of this boss is associated with how long the mission is as this gives us the feeling of game difficulty and high enemy health pool, knowing these factors I can say that there is no need for The Fragmented to have good rewards (If the DE increases the mission time, the reward can be improved as the mission time factor also serves as a reward metric). Finally, I can say that Hydrolist and Profit-taker continue to be the most difficult and boring bosses in the game as they involve extremely complex, expensive loadouts and timing strategies experienced by boring and evasive repetitions, fireworks spam mechanics, enemy skills and damage making the objective (the boss) is just a gigantic animated themed object on the map.

7. Excal Umbra Transference Bug
Unfortunately I have no experience with excal, unfortunately I can't give an opinion and you have a point.

8. Give Kullervo, Inaros, and Nidus a Shield (or Similar Buff).
Health, Armor, Shield, Overguard, Overshield, Energy... they are just points, morphic numbers, look at the new Murmur faction, most of them don't have armor or shields so don't underestimate mechanics as they are all made of the same numbers. The fact is that Shieldgating is still dominant (I'm looking at you octavia resonator + orange shard) while health and armor have few damage conversion mechanics. Reaching lvl9999 just shows how broken some game mechanics and weapons are because the game doesn't have intelligent dynamics to challenge us.

9. Make Drifter walk more naturally just like the Operator.
Apparently the characters are connected to old game engine rules, the resolution and animation dynamics are limited, you can see this in large enemies and slow recordings above 120 frames per second. I don't have in-depth technical knowledge on the subject, so I dont know if this is updatable.

10. Make Dax Equitem appear more often in Duviri Mission - Fighting with him/her is really cool.
I agree, it's more fun than the Jackal boss from circuit mode.

11. Make Drifter's Camp a little bit crowded with other brothers.
I have contradictory comments on the camps, I can't define this as we still have Iron Wake, Maroo Bazzar, Realys, Open World, etc. All of these must have browser access but cannot be camps.

12. Make blood splats more obvious and brutal during fights.
Graphical problems, most game engines lose graphical details during development, textures disappear, reduced textures, dynamic lighting disappears, shader is broken, this is horrible, I have no technical information about this, I don't know if it is on purpose or computational procedures, watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1W5DU4zmAA

I'm almost sure that DLSS, XESS, FSR will come to save us from these problems because all the game's graphics systems including mesh resolution, textures, shaders work within a virtual capsule dynamically leveled by the software in real time, logically this will come in future updates.

13. Defense and Interception is kinda outdated mission types that every Tenno is dodging.
Yep. DE refuses to update these mods, I am impressed by the maps full of panels and rooms that could work dynamically but the developers assume stationary survival mechanics and limited interaction with repetitive enemies. The new Murmur maps are visibly significant progress, dynamic maps and a lot of interaction, the enemies are just an accumulation of challenges on the map.

 

Edited January 3 by Famecans