Save the noobs!! Another de-grind suggestion!!

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

OMG we gotta save the noobs and make it easier for them to catch up!!!  Here is my idea...

The second time you build a frame it takes seconds, not hours and days!!  (AKA helminth sacrifice speed up)

I know what your thinking and NO I totally do not have stuff I have not subsumed yet! *looks around nervously*

[BiancaRoughfin]

Just now, (PSN)AbBaNdOn_ said:

OMG we gotta save the noobs and make it easier for them to catch up!!!

No, they dont, they should go through the same processes and trials every player has gone before them.

Why should we suger coat the path for those that come after us?

Just now, (PSN)AbBaNdOn_ said:

The second time you build a frame it takes seconds, not hours and days!!  (AKA helminth sacrifice speed up)

Is this for the Noobs or just for you to not have to wait 4 days to play with a newly digested frame's ability?

First thing i did after DE announced the Helminth system was logging into the Game and putting a replica of all the frames i had to craft, those i didnt have the pieces i farmed and had most ready when the update came. Still had to wait 24 hours in between each frame being fed to the Helminth.

[SDGDen]

obviously the "save the noobs" part here is a meme, but:

 

honestly, to "save the noobs", lowering grind isnt even a big thing atm. the bigger issue is the boom and zoom meta on lower level content. 

 

[Monolake]

Overall 12+72 hrs - 4 days - wait for a frame is a big turn off for many, it needs to be changed to just 24 hrs - that's already 2 days with parts and its enough. Keep 72 hrs for a prime if you must, but for regular frames that all new people craft it should be reduced to keep them interested. Its like getting a new toy, yet you are not allowed to play with it for whole 4 days - I know people who dropped the game right there, it doesn't help retention like the 1-day crafting does - which makes you want to play the next day, but long wait makes people put the game away.

Alternative idea - MR ranks give a 1-time crafting boost you can use on any item be it frame of weapon  (this can be balanced, to give these boosts only at certain ranks)

[CephalonCarnage]

Surely if we wanted to save the noobs, we'd ensure it takes so long to get to the endgame meta boom and nuke that they never arrive.

Why would anyone want to catchup and bypass all the game that made us love WF so much, in favour of getting to the latest Grindy McGrindface gameplay. Unless its to ensure they have the new options to buy stuff for plat 🤔

[Zakkhar]

20 hours ago, (PSN)AbBaNdOn_ said:

OMG we gotta save the noobs and make it easier for them to catch up!!! 

The easier they catch up the faster they burn and get bored. If you do not have to work on your result, it is not satisfactory and not worth holding onto.

The more you invest, the more valuable it is for you.

PS: The word is newbies/newbs. Noob is a derogatory term.

Edited January 31 by Zakkhar

[-1FPS]

im fine if i have to wait 2 days but 3? thats a bit much

[RyllusPurple]

36 hours for polychromes

[Aevire]

On 1/30/2024 at 8:49 AM, BiancaRoughfin said:

No, they dont, they should go through the same processes and trials every player has gone before them.

Why should we suger coat the path for those that come after us?

They have less time to do all that grind than we did. We had potentially a decade’s head start. I think that it is definitely an interesting idea to make the first weapon and/or frame, or first several, a player builds take less time than the 12h/36h max, as they don’t have a whole lot they could do in the meantime. Maybe they do this by making Rhino parts take an hour each to make and Rhino himself take another hour, but I don’t think the idea should be discounted on a dime. Frankly I think that the early quests should reward completed items in foundry like kuva liches so that new players can get into the flow of the game but that’s another can of worms.

[Xylia]

On 2024-01-30 at 11:49 AM, BiancaRoughfin said:

No, they dont, they should go through the same processes and trials every player has gone before them.

Why should we suger coat the path for those that come after us?

Is this for the Noobs or just for you to not have to wait 4 days to play with a newly digested frame's ability?

First thing i did after DE announced the Helminth system was logging into the Game and putting a replica of all the frames i had to craft, those i didnt have the pieces i farmed and had most ready when the update came. Still had to wait 24 hours in between each frame being fed to the Helminth.

Because a newbie player is joining the game with an absolute Herculean task ahead of them of trying to get caught up with all that stuff.

I mean, first you gotta learn just WTF is actually worth doing amidst a sea of content islands all disconnected from each other, or at least many of them are disconnected.

And then, you got a bunch of stupid BS waits, like 4 days to make a frame, or a whole day to make a weapon.

Or, how about the fact that you can only do one mastery rank test per RL day? Not, failing and retaking, I mean, ANY Mastery Rank quest, even if you pass the first one, you still can't do a 2nd in the same day, despite the first few ranks being so easy and quick to get (and certain weapons are locked behind them).

Heck, IIRC, the Boltor is MR2 (or was?) and it isn't too terribly hard to get to Fossa and kill Jackal within the same RL day... oh wait, the reward you get from opening Mercury is... Boltor. Which you need MR2 to use. Which you _can't_ use until you rank up twice.

These waits are just stupid, and I don't really see a reason for them other than to be as annoying as possible and to try to get people to spend plat to speed it up but that just feels like predatory game design to me.

Warframe in general is celebrated as a game that respects your wallet, but there are still certain aspects of the game I feel are predatory, like the Pay to Skip Wait.

 

[quxier]

On 2024-01-31 at 2:33 PM, Zakkhar said:

On 2024-01-30 at 5:41 PM, (PSN)AbBaNdOn_ said:

 

The easier they catch up the faster they burn and get bored. If you do not have to work on your result, it is not satisfactory and not worth holding o

If the rewards are not enjoyable then work is like "slavery".

On 2024-01-30 at 5:49 PM, BiancaRoughfin said:

On 2024-01-30 at 5:41 PM, (PSN)AbBaNdOn_ said:

OMG we gotta save the noobs and make it easier for them to catch up!!!

No, they dont, they should go through the same processes and trials every player has gone before them.

Why should we suger coat the path for those that come after us?

"I feel pain so you do" mentality won't make stuff better. We should remember past and make future better.

[Zakkhar]

On 2024-02-26 at 11:41 PM, quxier said:

If the rewards are not enjoyable then work is like "slavery".

Except it is not work or slavery. It is a game. Nobody is forcing you to do this. The rewards are known beforehand, they are not hidden. If you do not find them enjoyable you are free not to participate in the grind. And if you do not have to grind at all, can you imagine how not enjoyoble (level/length) the rewards will be? Anyway, this is a grind shooter. not an idle-game. The gameplay is the reward. You can skip the gameplay, cutscenes and ignore the lore, but expecting any gratification after you do that is a bit silly.

Edited March 4 by Zakkhar

[quxier]

12 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

On 2024-02-26 at 11:41 PM, quxier said:

If the rewards are not enjoyable then work is like "slavery".

Except it is not work or slavery. It is a game. Nobody is forcing you to do this. The rewards are known beforehand, they are not hidden. If you do not find them enjoyable you are free not to participate in the grind. And if you do not have to grind at all, can you imagine how not enjoyoble (level/length) the rewards will be? Anyway, this is a grind shooter. not an idle-game. The gameplay is the reward. You can skip the gameplay, cutscenes and ignore the lore, but expecting any gratification after you do that is a bit silly.

 

This game can be played however you want (there are some exceptions). For some time (after farming hours in survival for Octavia part) I've bought most frame before refarming them later for Helminth. I just couldn't find grind for those frames enjoyable.

Beating something once (especially solo) is rewarding. Improving on that can be rewarding as well if it's your skill that's being tested not just better items. How much more of improvement is worth, it's depends on player. However doing 1 "thing" many times is not the way to make rewards (e.g. frames) more rewarding.

[(PSN)AbBaNdOn_]

-First I wanna say that DE HAVE made radical changes to the game to make it easier on newbs.  Im not going into all the examples if you don't know them.  I don't care about that either.

-This post was me sarcastically asking for it to be easier to build second Warframes to sacrifice them to helminth for myself(although it helps everyone new and old alike)

The first time you build a NORMAL frame sure it should require whatever grind and x hours to build and woooo so much fun.   THe SECOND time though...  the grind should get halfed or reduced to nothing... the build time should be nothing.   A second normal frame affects NOTHING and NOBODY.   I just wanna sacrifice a fresh frame I have no forma in etc.   

========

I want Citrine's 1st ability on my Inaros...  I already ran Mirror for all the weapons, the frame, all the captura.  I thought I was done...  Then later that Encumbered arcane sounded super cool and I ended up having to farm a butt load more crystals.  AND THEN I thought I was done...  Until they tweaked Inaros and I realized I needed a second CItrine.  To my absolute amazement after farming 21 encumber arcanes.. I did not have a full set of citrine lol.   So I had to farm another 700 crystals (didn't get lucky with drops).

After all that... now I gotta spend 4 days cooking a frame I already got just so I can sacrifice it.   How stupid is that?? 

Now compare this time gate to the various things they have changed for newbs and its absurd.

[Pakaku]

Yes, I'm in favour of getting rid of the days-long crafting process. No, I don't think DE will ever improve that.