What do you find inconvenient when using GRENDEL?

[Siryuniki]

I feel that the Nourish ability is easier to use when used in other warframes.  When using Nourish in GRENDEL, I would like to see the restriction that you cannot use Nourish unless you prey on the enemy with the first ability be relaxed.

I also find it inconvenient that when the passive destroys an enemy, the armor value immediately decreases.

I find Hearty Nourishment particularly difficult to use.  I would like it to take the same amount of time as normal Nourish, regardless of the number of people being preyed on.

[Skoomaseller]

Grendel's Pulverize/ball form is very sensitive to slight bumps in geometry (seemingly flat surfaces have them... for some reason) making seamless speeding difficult.

Enemies inside Grendel's gut take too much damage from Pulverize's impact with surfaces, so if you're like me and use Pulverize often it becomes a bit inconvenient to keep sucking in enemies when you want to store them for refreshing Nourish or for Regurgitate. Just shouldn't be a thing imo. 

There is currently a bug with Synergized Prospectus where it will home in on the enemies inside Grendel's gut endlessly since it cannot touch them. Overall a mild inconvenience because then you'll occasionally miss out on the stupid powerful synergy with it and Manifold Bond, and with a bright energy colour it'll really hurt your eyes, but thankfully this doesn't always happen.

[quxier]

41 minutes ago, Siryuniki said:

 

I also find it inconvenient that when the passive destroys an enemy, the armor value immediately decreases.

I find it slightly bad enemy economy (in gut). If you want to use all abilities you have basically at at 3 or even less enemies.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

I don't like how enemies die too quickly in his stomach in low level missions. I know mass murder is the aim of the game. But when his abilities depend on having fodder stored within him in order to use them, he becomes essentially a meatshield with no abilities. He was made for Steel Path content.

[(PSN)Sentiel]

Two things.

Enemies in his Gut die too quickly. Wouldn't be an issue if more than 5 would fit in.

Eating enemies while using Pulverize is extremely unreliable and nearly doesn't work at all unless you stop near the enemy you're trying to eat.

[Aruquae]

I can’t eat the entire room anymore :[

[(XBOX)DragonMan 2700]

I agree that Nourish is easier to use on other frames other than the Grendel, my thoughts are that we should be able to use Nourishes damage and pulse without consuming enemies for energy, and only get the heal while consuming enemies.

Next, yea they do melt in his belly a lil too fast it could be slowed down but also, I'd like to suggest that maybe like an arcane or galvanized mods Grendel could build up armor as he ate them up to a cap for "X" amount of seconds. That way as their timing out, or being used for his Nourish he will still get some armor. 

[UnstarPrime]

Grendel has an amazing kit that's incredibly cohesive.

In fact, it's so cohesive that it was impossible to make one of those abilities into a Helminth ability without altering it: one ability sucks enemies into his stomach, and you can't make that a Helminth because that's Grendel's personal gimmick, and all the other abilities require tummy enemies, so you can't do that because no other frame can have tummy enemies.  Because of this, adjustments had to be made.  So when used via Helminth, they removed the enemy requirement and also removed the healing element from Nourish.

I understand why this had to happen.  And I can understand why some folks might prefer a tummy-less Nourish despite the loss of the healing element; that's valid.

However, Grendel has a great kit as-is, and I don't think the fact that an element had to be removed from an ability to make it function with Helminth should be used as a reason to modify the ability on the actual frame.  I wouldn't want Grendel's kit to become less cohesive.  If it actually got to the point where DE felt they needed to make a change, I'd rather they nerf the Helminth version of the ability into the ground.  But I don't think that's actually necessary; I think things are fine as-is.

---

The only thing I find inconvenient about Grendel is that his arms clip through his tummy when holding a lot of weapons.

[(XBOX)Graysmog]

8 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

Grendel's Pulverize/ball form is very sensitive to slight bumps in geometry (seemingly flat surfaces have them... for some reason) making seamless speeding difficult.

Enemies inside Grendel's gut take too much damage from Pulverize's impact with surfaces, so if you're like me and use Pulverize often it becomes a bit inconvenient to keep sucking in enemies when you want to store them for refreshing Nourish or for Regurgitate. Just shouldn't be a thing imo. 

There is currently a bug with Synergized Prospectus where it will home in on the enemies inside Grendel's gut endlessly since it cannot touch them. Overall a mild inconvenience because then you'll occasionally miss out on the stupid powerful synergy with it and Manifold Bond, and with a bright energy colour it'll really hurt your eyes, but thankfully this doesn't always happen.

It's kind of weird that Grendel wants Power Strength and yet the enemies in his gut just die ridiculously fast, making you have to constantly eat and try to balance between good buffs and ability ammunition.

I understand that's kind of the point, but it feels unnecessary and annoying. I would hope Grendel would just digest and damage one enemy at a time while the others are stored, it seems like having every enemy take damage at once on top of the strip just makes him burn though his reserves way too fast.

Edited February 9 by (XBOX)Graysmog

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

I'm glad that you asked! 

Grendel was ruined by people making silly requests! 

You could easily hold 6 to 20ish enemies no problem if you knew the nuances of pre-update Grendel. 

Pre-update Grendel was a Toxin monster! A complete Corpus Killer....but what happened?! 

Meta casuals that can't mod needed viral for everything and meta casuals can't properly mod so his energy had to be adjusted and now we can only hold 4 enemies.

[quxier]

32 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I'm glad that you asked! 

Grendel was ruined by people making silly requests! 

You could easily hold 6 to 20ish enemies no problem if you knew the nuances of pre-update Grendel. 

Pre-update Grendel was a Toxin monster! A complete Corpus Killer....but what happened?! 

Meta casuals that can't mod needed viral for everything and meta casuals can't properly mod so his energy had to be adjusted and now we can only hold 4 enemies.

Imagine there is space between your "meta causal" and "die hard fan of obesity Grendel".

When I hear "oh, Grendel could hold X enemies". Great. But how those people used it? I trick pony. Swallow everything, then throw up. They probably buffed their energy. That's all.

If you wanted to use Pulverize but you have no enemies in Belly? Turn off and grab them again. You have forgotten about empty Gut? Your 1/2 Primed flow energy would goes in seconds WITHOUT YOU DOING ANYTHING. Ghourmand that drain HP haven't helped too much. You were forced to look at 3 icons/bars instead of 2.  Not to mention Pulverize weren't that great in moving. You were basically forced to equip Catapult if you want to use Pulverize.

You says we mod for Viral like casuals. And eat/vomit cycle is what? I get that people are salty about no longer being able to eat more. But glorifying one style and trashing other is just silly.

 

I'm not saying it's perfect. However the made his whole kit much more usable.

[Skoomaseller]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I'm glad that you asked! 

Grendel was ruined by people making silly requests! 

You could easily hold 6 to 20ish enemies no problem if you knew the nuances of pre-update Grendel. 

i keep seeing this take and no one has shown evidence that Grendel could hold more than 7 enemies without evaporating his energy pool/HP with gourmand.

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Pre-update Grendel was a Toxin monster! A complete Corpus Killer....but what happened?! .

Post-rework Grendel is even better at killing Corpus lol. And not just Corpus. He can do this to any faction not immune to viral or toxin. Eat 1, get Nourish, get hit to spread viral, then spit your victim out. AOE toxin boosted by TEN viral procs. Don't like this? No problem, eat and spit just using your 1.

Sure, the max is just 5 now, but in return he became even deadlier than ever. 

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

 Meta casuals that can't mod needed viral for everything and meta casuals can't properly mod so his energy had to be adjusted and now we can only hold 4 enemies.

*5 enemies

Oh yeah, the "casuals" (this game is inherently casual btw) are to blame... lol. You truly are the master of pulling things out of your ass. 

I don't recall seeing people asking for DE to make Nourish as broken as it is. I myself just asked for the energy drain on Feast to not be so bad, Pulverize improvements and Nourish to be 1 single buff instead of a cycle.

I never asked for Nourish to become a fusion reactor, nor did I ask for Nourish to grant #*!%ing VIRAL of all things, nor did I ask for 2 sources of armor strip. That was all DE. 

Edited February 10 by Skoomaseller

[Slayer-.]

8 hours ago, Aruquae said:

I can’t eat the entire room anymore :[

That^

Narrow doorways are a problem and I have to squeeze into my rubber tube ephemera. 

[Skoomaseller]

9 hours ago, Aruquae said:

I can’t eat the entire room anymore :[

It was funny eating half the wave in Hydron while levelling him, then spitting them out in the out-of-bounds area. Oh well, I still enjoy Grendel. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Imagine there is space between your "meta causal" and "die hard fan of obesity Grendel".

When I hear "oh, Grendel could hold X enemies". Great. But how those people used it? I trick pony. Swallow everything, then throw up. They probably buffed their energy. That's all.

If you wanted to use Pulverize but you have no enemies in Belly? Turn off and grab them again. You have forgotten about empty Gut? Your 1/2 Primed flow energy would goes in seconds WITHOUT YOU DOING ANYTHING. Ghourmand that drain HP haven't helped too much. You were forced to look at 3 icons/bars instead of 2.  Not to mention Pulverize weren't that great in moving. You were basically forced to equip Catapult if you want to use Pulverize.

You says we mod for Viral like casuals. And eat/vomit cycle is what? I get that people are salty about no longer being able to eat more. But glorifying one style and trashing other is just silly.

 

I'm not saying it's perfect. However the made his whole kit much more usable.

You have no idea how every person used it except for the uninformed that had no idea what they were doing and came to the forums to vent. 

An example is the people that didn't even know rage gave energy with enemies actively in the stomach...and that that energy is also affected by Nourish giving you even more energy per hit. 

I also shouldn't have to explain that orbs exist that you pick up, energize etc. 

Forced to look at icons? A person having slow coordination has nothing to do with the frame and more the individual.

Pulverize...you know thats a free helminth slot for Roar/Warcry/literally anything else, correct?

We're talking actual gameplay, not casuals making meme builds....

12 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

i keep seeing this take and no one has shown evidence that Grendel could hold more than 7 enemies without evaporating his energy pool/HP with gourmand.

Post-rework Grendel is even better at killing Corpus lol. And not just Corpus. He can do this to any faction not immune to viral or toxin. Eat 1, get Nourish, get hit to spread viral, then spit your victim out. AOE toxin boosted by TEN viral procs. Don't like this? No problem, eat and spit just using your 1.

Sure, the max is just 5 now, but in return he became even deadlier than ever. 

Oh yeah, the "casuals" (this game is inherently casual, stop huffing paint thinners) are to blame... lol. You truly are the master of pulling things out of your ass. 

I don't recall seeing people asking for DE to make Nourish as broken as it is. I myself just asked for the energy drain on Feast to not be so bad, Pulverize improvements and Nourish to be 1 single buff instead of a cycle.

I never asked for Nourish to become a fusion reactor, nor did I ask for 2 sources of armor strip. That was all DE. 

Have you seen what a PS4 recording of gameplay looks like? Are you aware things exist without you physically seeing them....?

Please explain how a viral proc goes through shields...I'd love to see it...

Also....people spitting enemies out to spread toxin....you know we have melee and 2 guns, right?

[Skoomaseller]

3 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

An example is the people that didn't even know rage gave energy with enemies actively in the stomach...and that that energy is also affected by Nourish giving you even more energy per hit. 

>"I love my energy"

>eat everything

>no one left to shoot me for Rage damage to energy conversion

>"I love my energy" 

>"where is my energy..." 

3 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I also shouldn't have to explain that orbs exist that you pick up, energize etc. 

Orbs couldn't keep up with the drain. Also energize, lmao. Not everyone has energize, it was 2k plat for rank 5 then.

3 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Pulverize...you know thats a free helminth slot for Roar/Warcry/literally anything else, correct?

you... you're not really defending old Grendel by saying this. You know that, right?

3 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

We're talking actual gameplay, not casuals making meme builds....

The game is casual. This is why you shouldn't be a contrarian; it rots your brain.

3 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Have you seen what a PS4 recording of gameplay looks like? Are you aware things exist without you physically seeing them....?

What? Is it so bad that it's unwatchable? I really don't care. Shoot it my way. I will agree with you if what is shown is good enough. Also yes, my sense of object permanence is fine, I just haven't seen any vids that support this claim that Grendel could eat 20+ people without urinating all his energy out.

3 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Please explain how a viral proc goes through shields...I'd love to see it...

Ok.

 

3 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Also....people spitting enemies out to spread toxin....you know we have melee and 2 guns, right?

Your point being...? 

Edited February 10 by Skoomaseller

[Raarsi]

Only thing I find inconvenient about him is that physics exist.

[Skoomaseller]

Oh one more thing.

I think while in Pulverize, Grendel is still subject to hard landings, so if you're balling then land after jumping from a high place (I think Corpus Gas City is the perfect place to recreate this) you'll be stuck in place for about half a second.

Why this is the case I don't really know. 

[Lancars]

When i go to eat enemies and they clearly went in but they somehow died mid transfer because some nuke ability went off and kill them. Even with faster casting.

Edited February 13 by Lancars
Spelling mistake. Was tired. Still tired.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

When I am at a stadium, and have to leave my seat, and then have to move past other people, but the seats in front are way too close, so you have to do that awkward shuffle, past other people. Like depending on the country, culture and people involved, different people choose different approaches. Like some turn, so they go past facing them, and some just face forwards. Like it can be awkward either way, depending on how tight the narrow passage is, but with Grendel? 

Its really hard trying to explain to kids, that you just orphaned them, because your belly has a giant hungry, matter consuming mouth in it, that can gobble up to 4-5 humanoid sized objects, and you just consumed and devoured their parents by accident. You could call that greatly inconvenient. Though you could also give them a quick buff as well, which in no way makes up for it, but its a nice gesture. 

[Prof-Dante]

I miss when you could eat 40+ enemies.

[CoffeeElemental]

4 часа назад, Skoomaseller сказал:

I think while in Pulverize, Grendel is still subject to hard landings

This sht's driving me mad since the beninging. What's even worse is that it can sometimes happen after a single regular jump.

Still, Pulverize with Catapult is one of the best mobility tools in the game and I will not give up on it, because it's funny.

[Skoomaseller]

32 minutes ago, CoffeeElemental said:

Still, Pulverize with Catapult is one of the best mobility tools in the game and I will not give up on it, because it's funny.

based

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

6 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

>"I love my energy"

>eat everything

>no one left to shoot me for Rage damage to energy conversion

>"I love my energy" 

>"where is my energy..." 

Orbs couldn't keep up with the drain. Also energize, lmao. Not everyone has energize, it was 2k plat for rank 5 then.

you... you're not really defending old Grendel by saying this. You know that, right?

The game is casual. This is why you shouldn't be a contrarian; it rots your brain.

What? Is it so bad that it's unwatchable? I really don't care. Shoot it my way. I will agree with you if what is shown is good enough. Also yes, my sense of object permanence is fine, I just haven't seen any vids that support this claim that Grendel could eat 20+ people without urinating all his energy out.

Ok.

 

Your point being...? 

I should have clarified....Grendel Nourish now applies viral to weapons....messing up the element weighting......before the update it was a straight toxin buff...adding even more to the element weighting to melee and shoot corpus....

On SP there's always enemies.

And during battle you're not just sitting with 20 often, that's why I said 6 to 20ish....it's constantly in Flux but if needed 20 is doable with the right conditions present i.e. huge spawn on SP.

[Skoomaseller]

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

I should have clarified....Grendel Nourish now applies viral to weapons....messing up the element weighting......before the update it was a straight toxin buff...adding even more to the element weighting to melee and shoot corpus....

I'd argue that it's better now. Instead of just pure Toxin, you can now mod for Magnetic + Heat, and have Viral on top as a nice bonus. Shields pop in like a single hit, and the occasional armored Corpus unit is easier to deal with, all while maintaining ease of killing Corpus mobs in general. 

In practice I don't really see Nourish messing up the weighting of modded elements, so it's all good. Generally speaking, Viral is more universally applicable than Toxin as well. Not to mention, nothing is stopping you from modding your weapons to deal Toxin damage, unless of course said weapon has an innate primary element that isn't Toxin. 

This might not be ideal if you were doing extremely high level runs where the Toxin DoT and damage may be more desirable to avoid hitting shields at all, to which I'll concede my point since I don't play at that level (as I find it pointless). Although I will say current Nourish would help accomplish that as well, as, like I said, you can just mod for pure Toxin, which will do much more damage thanks to the free 10 Viral procs enemies get hit with when you get hit, and the Viral damage and procs from your gun. 

That's also 3 Elements for CO. If old Gas were still a thing I'd say I would agree with you... but then old Gas would work wonders with new Nourish, because, well, you know by now. Viral is just that good. 

2 hours ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

On SP there's always enemies.

And during battle you're not just sitting with 20 often, that's why I said 6 to 20ish....it's constantly in Flux but if needed 20 is doable with the right conditions present i.e. huge spawn on SP.

Very well, thank you for clarifying. I'll have to agree to disagree here, I think new Feast is still better. It's more consistent and your energy is almost never in flux, because it regenerates so quickly now that there's no drain on Feast (via Energy Orb pickup, or Zenurik Wellspring, etc etc), thus you are not required to run Rage/Hunter Adrenaline or use Arcane Energize, therefore freeing up a mod slot and an Arcane slot. 

Edited February 10 by Skoomaseller
Added more context & reasoning.