BUFFS DE NOT NERFS

[RedGoat989]

you're nerfing nourish the only versatile ability in the helminth system, the only way to get energy without having to stop in an area for 30 seconds while either enemies die inside it or wait until it spits out energy orbs or you have equilibrium oh and the first example needs an augment to function

everything else helminth can offer is nigh useless or extremely niche outside of 3 other raw damage abilities one of which is getting nerfed, CC abilities arent worth slotting anymore because nautilus exists so why exactly are you nerfing nourish? because its used too much? THEN MAYBE CONSIDER THE FACT THE REST OF THE HELMINTH IS #*!%ING USELESS maybe if the other abilities were worth their #*!%ing material costs we might consider using them instead of defaulting to nourish, roar, dispensary or gloom but DE dont work like that, since the game's beginnings DE has always had the policy of nerf first buff last its why everything in the game is a powercreep nightmare BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO BUSY CHASING FANCY UPDATES INSTEAD OF DEDICATING TO FULLY BUFFING OLD EQUIPMENT you tried to do it in several ways which just resulted in content islands that got abandoned, wraith, prisma and vandal weapons were the first then came rivens then kuva/tenet and now we have incarnons, how long until we dont get any more incarnon weapons but instead get presented a NEW form of weapon upgrading system INSTEAD OF BUFFING THE ACTUAL #*!%ING ARSENAL?

also i'd like to add nourish is so useful in making arcane energize useless just to stick it to that overpriced piece of S#&$ arcane 

[(XBOX)C11H22O11]

They should be doing both, that's how you balance a game. Nerf what's too strong and buff what's weak to avoid the game becoming stale

[Voltage]

Why do you feel a completely different Warframe's ability needs to be kept in a state of overusage for adding a powerful damage multiplier (viral) and acting as an energy generator? The game has spoiled players too much with one-man-army-self-supporting builds with the complete aversion from team roles. Nourish is functionally energy vampire on all your Warframes if you want it. It's really boring power creep to be quite honest.

Edited February 23 by Voltage

[RedGoat989]

2 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Why do you feel a completely different Warframe's ability needs to be kept in a state of overusage for adding a powerful damage multiplier (viral) and acting as an energy generator? The game has spoiled players too much with one-man-army-self-supporting builds with the complete aversion from team roles. Nourish is functionally energy vampire on all your Warframes if you want it. It's really boring power creep to be quite honest.

i see nourish's viral damage as a cherry on top and im fine with it being removed entirely, its funny to give viral to specters and invasion allies but otherwise i agree its too much but the energy gain multiplier? that is the best energy sustain ability we can get without, again, having to stop and wait for energy to be delivered to us in a fast paced game where you need to stay moving by design, DE hates it when we stop moving and still get kills thanks to their abhorrent anti AFK systems and for the team roles bit thats DE's fault, public matches suck to try and organize yourself with other people, warframe by design isnt good at team roles compared to any other L4D esque games and i'd rather not have to rely on some random retarded dipS#&$ to get my energy from or wait for minutes just to form a squad and farm steel essence or something, DE are the ones that made the game into a fast paced one man army gameplay so dont blame the players for the intended behaviour

[Waeleto]

How many helminth abilities are actually useful ? people didn't feel the need to use nourish or abilities would be useless people simply used nourish because it opened a new door to so many different builds and made some really energy hungry warframes like oberon/frost/excalibur (and the list goes on) more comfortable to play, it was the ONLY versatile ability in the helminth system and nerfing will undoubtedly bring some warframes down.

Instead of nerfing nourish maybe ask the question WHY is it being used so much ? MAYBE just maybe because more than half the helminth abilities are utterly U S E L E S S ? so maybe you should be buffing these helminth abilities or changing the ability the warframe gives to the helminth into an actually useful one ?

Or perhaps they should remove the helminth system completely since there will ALWAYS be a top 1 ability and actually fixing the warframes kits and giving every single warframe useful 4 abilities so we don't need to subsume at all.

This is a sad day and they're taking the wrong approach with nourish

 

[Waeleto]

17 minutes ago, (XBOX)C11H22O11 said:

They should be doing both, that's how you balance a game. Nerf what's too strong and buff what's weak to avoid the game becoming stale

But they're not buffing what's too weak they're just nerfing 

[Genitive]

I doubt any amount of buffs would stop people from using nourish, hence the nerf. Not really a big deal.

[trst]

This amount of cope is exactly why it needs to be nerfed, getting too used to one singular crutch in a game with as many options as we have is a bad thing.

Nourish is not the only way to get energy and everything via Helminth is not niche/useless. Your refusal to think outside of your tiny box isn't an issue with the game nor is it an issue that DE is attempting to push you out of said box.

[Shodian87]

Or maybe don't make your builds around needing one ability. 

 

[Rigtis]

Sincerely, Nourish nerf was something inevitable. We knew it was gonna happen someday, just didn't want to think on it. It has always been the same pattern when something is overused, just takes time. Same thing may happen to gloom and probably breach surge, because experimentation and efficiency are not allowed to go along together, no matter if it comes from a resource vacuum system that you have not only to unlock but also feed a fully crafted warframe to make it work.

They are slowly putting the poor helminth to sleep 😔

Edited February 23 by Rigtis
Typo

[Rigtis]

hace 6 minutos, Shodian87 dijo:

Or maybe don't make your builds around needing one ability. 

 

Or maybe don't make enemies that drain your energy like no tomorrow. We need a way to reliably counter that somehow or it becomes unplayable.

[Arbitrary]

8 minutes ago, Rigtis said:

Or maybe don't make enemies that drain your energy like no tomorrow. We need a way to reliably counter that somehow or it becomes unplayable.

They nerfed magnetic procs twice in recent history already. They're pretty tame now.

[Kaiga]

Nerfs? In a PvE game?

All joking aside, nourish is really strong but nerfing it is far easier than reworking or buffing the other 1% use rate helminth abilities, this is how DE works, you should know this by now.

[trst]

10 minutes ago, Rigtis said:

Same thing may happen to gloom and probably breach surge, because experimentation and efficiency are not allowed to go along together, no matter if it comes from a resource vacuum system that you have not only to unlock but also feed a fully crafted warframe to make it work.

They are slowly putting the poor helminth to sleep 😔

No you're still allowed to experiment and be efficient. But most players using the same setup to the point of not knowing how to use anything else is the exact opposite of experimenting. It's also not even efficient when many frames/setups would benefit more from using something other than Nourish.

Helminth is still very very much relevant and useful.

7 minutes ago, Rigtis said:

Or maybe don't make enemies that drain your energy like no tomorrow. We need a way to reliably counter that somehow or it becomes unplayable.

Yeah you can counter them. By not standing in the bright blue circles appearing under your feet, avoiding the melee only enemies when they're glowing a bright blue color, and avoiding the tiny amount of very bright and telegraphed attacks that hit you with magnetic procs.

Or alternatively do nothing to avoid those enemies and just take the approach of building in a way that lets you instantly bounce back from zero energy (Orb spawning effects, Zenurik, Rage, energy restores, etc). Y'know, experiment with other options.

[Urazz82]

To be fair, I do think Nourish needs a nerf and was expecting it.  It is way too powerful as it currently is in it's Helminth form.  Hopefully DE doesn't nerf it too hard.

[UnstarPrime]

37 minutes ago, RedGoat989 said:

you're nerfing nourish the only versatile ability in the helminth system, the only way to get energy without having to stop in an area for 30 seconds while either enemies die inside it or wait until it spits out energy orbs or you have equilibrium oh and the first example needs an augment to function

With respect, it's going to be hard for most people to take your seriously when your opening sentence barrels past being hyperbolic into simply being a transparent lie.  You didn't even list half the ways to regain energy here, let alone ways to make your usage of energy more sustainable such as Seismic Bond.  If you have complaints you feel are valid, I encourage you to be honest about them; you unfairly malign any worthwhile criticism you might have by burying it under distracting falsehoods.

 

43 minutes ago, RedGoat989 said:

also i'd like to add nourish is so useful in making arcane energize useless just to stick it to that overpriced piece of S#&$ arcane 

I can imagine feeling sympathetic towards this viewpoint if there hadn't just been an event where everyone had the opportunity to farm all of the Arcane Energizes they could ever want.  But since there was, it just feels like you didn't take advantage of that opportunity.  The silver lining is that this isn't the first time they've offered Arcane stores like that, and it probably won't be the last.

 

51 minutes ago, RedGoat989 said:

everything else helminth can offer is nigh useless or extremely niche outside of 3 other raw damage abilities one of which is getting nerfed

If you genuinely believe this, I just want to encourage you to think outside the box a little more.  I've never put Nourish on any of my frames and rarely use Helminth abilities that directly increase damage, and I'm doing great.  There's so much functionality you're passing up.  And if you decide it's not for you, that's fair enough!  But to genuinely think that 90% of Helminth abilities are "niche" can only mean that you haven't genuinely taken the time to consider what they're offering.

 

54 minutes ago, RedGoat989 said:

CC abilities arent worth slotting anymore because nautilus exists

I could be wrong, but this combined with the rest of your post makes me think that you might be stuck in one specific playstyle that isn't allowing you to explore other possible options.  There's just so much out there, so many different ways to make a great build that don't involve Nourish or Nautilus.  I really want to encourage you to get outside the box that your words suggest you might be trapped in.  Not only will doing so make you more knowledgeable about the overall game, but it will mean that when nerfs happen, you'll won't feel so much like you're lost at sea because you'll be aware of the plethora of other options available to you.

It can suck when nerfs hit the stuff you like, but it's also for the best.  I hope this post gives you some ideas about how to get back on your feet, Tenno!

[Ampathetiic]

I might have missed something, but I got the impression that this Nourish nerf is a slight number reduction, not a change to the ability's effects. Nourish will probably still work on whatever build you use it on, and the effectiveness you lost was probably overkill on a good build.

38 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

But they're not buffing what's too weak they're just nerfing 

We also got an Inaros rework and new augments. Those are buffs.

[Tiltskillet]

21 minutes ago, RedGoat989 said:

i see nourish's viral damage as a cherry on top and im fine with it being removed entirely,

Well, they haven't even specified how they're going to nerf it, so maybe you'll get your wish, lol.  

13 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

But they're not buffing what's too weak they're just nerfing

I agree they shouldn't just nerf.  They are buffing Decoy, finally, though it's hard to see it any difference on other frames when Molt exists.   But at the very least, I'm happy for Loki.

Why it took so long,  I have no idea.  Hey DE, if you want to take a look at the other least used Helminth overrides, I'll happily take a few buffs to those abilities too.

7 minutes ago, Rigtis said:

Or maybe don't make enemies that drain your energy like no tomorrow. We need a way to reliably counter that somehow or it becomes unplayable.

If the Disruptor aura is your concern, then the better counters are energy orb generation abilities already.

[Rigtis]

hace 13 minutos, trst dijo:

Yeah you can counter them. By not standing in the bright blue circles appearing under your feet, avoiding the melee only enemies when they're glowing a bright blue color, and avoiding the tiny amount of very bright and telegraphed attacks that hit you with magnetic procs.

Or alternatively do nothing to avoid those enemies and just take the approach of building in a way that lets you instantly bounce back from zero energy (Orb spawning effects, Zenurik, Rage, energy restores, etc). Y'know, experiment with other options.

Oh, nice yes! Let me counter that fellow Ancient Disruptor who one taps my energy bar or an enemy who summons an energy leech field over a questionable range with no LOS. Magnetic procs can be easily avoided, even before the nerf, but point is that one of the desperate ways DE exploits to halt the player is by draining their energy by any means possible. So of course we will always find ways to counter it, but that's not excuse to nerf broken features that we use to deal with broken mechanics.

Before nerfing things they should ask themselves why people exploits it in first place. We don't embrace powercreep because we like it, is because we need it. They cornered us to this.

Edited February 24 by Rigtis

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

Nerf everything pls. Game too easy.

[RedGoat989]

4 minutes ago, trst said:

Yeah you can counter them. By not standing in the bright blue circles appearing under your feet, avoiding the melee only enemies when they're glowing a bright blue color, and avoiding the tiny amount of very bright and telegraphed attacks that hit you with magnetic procs.

Or alternatively do nothing to avoid those enemies and just take the approach of building in a way that lets you instantly bounce back from zero energy (Orb spawning effects, Zenurik, Rage, energy restores, etc). Y'know, experiment with other options.

il agree on avoiding energy leech eximi bubbles but ancient disruptors still suck and are my second most hated enemy behind nullifiers when i turn a corner and have a fraction of a second to realize that corner does infact have a fully expanded nullifier bubble oh and any level hazard magnetic proc is annoying BUT il agree they arent as bad anymore for draining your energy, ancient disruptors still suck

 

 

2 minutes ago, UnstarPrime said:

 

to this whole thing il agree we need to experiment more but the issue is resource costs, putting on and removing helminth skills, testing them at length to see what does and doesnt work is a chore and a resource drain especially on newer players or people with fewer resources, il agree that now im considering swapping energy nexus on most of my builds back to equilibrium because my hound build generates more than enough health orbs

speaking on companions il once again agree experimentation is needed, the bond mods breathed new life into the game for me and i cannot wait to see what DE does to hounds and moas to make them more unique and versatile

on the gargoyle event, excuse me for being busy with holidays season and overall life stuff to not have time to grind out a severely repetitive and time consuming boss over 50 times just to get one fully ranked arcane energize that is otherwise excessively overpriced 

also to whoever said rage effect is good for generating energy thats a lie, theres a fine balance you need to hit between not dying and actually generating energy in steel path and it is so unreliable and annoying its not worth it compared to any other method

[PR1D3]

11 minutes ago, Rigtis said:

Or maybe don't make enemies that drain your energy like no tomorrow. We need a way to reliably counter that somehow or it becomes unplayable.

This is a complete over reaction. This is not as bad as you're making it out to be. The few examples you will run into can be avoided through parkour or maybe use or team up with support frames that offer status protection.

16 minutes ago, Rigtis said:

They are slowly putting the poor helminth to sleep 😔

Again, over reaction, but even if it was true it ultimately wouldn't be a bad thing. @Voltage post about people getting spoiled with the one man army setups and completely ignore any team play is super hammer strike on that nail. 

[trst]

8 minutes ago, Rigtis said:

Oh, nice yes! Let me counter that fellow Ancient Disruptor who one taps my energy bar or an enemy who summons an energy leech field over a questionable range with no LOS. Magnetic procs can be easily avoided, even before the nerf, but point is that one of the desperate ways DE exploits to halt the player is by draining their energy by any means possible. So of course we will always find ways to counter it, but that's not excuse to nerf broken features that we use to deal with broken mechanics.

Before nerfing things they should ask themselves why people exploits it in first place. We don't embrace powercreep because we like it, is because we need it. They cornered us to this.

Literally just avoid the few things that can drain energy. If avoiding a tiny number of very telegraphed sources is too difficult then use a method that lets you ignore it entirely.

Exploiting anything is entirely unnecessary here nor is the effect of draining energy remotely unfair.

[Rigtis]

Justo ahora, PR1D3 dijo:

Again, over reaction, but even if it was true it ultimately wouldn't be a bad thing. @Voltage post about people getting spoiled with the one man army setups and completely ignore any team play is super hammer strike on that nail. 

Being a one man army gives out better results in the end than hanging out with people who sits on a corner watching anime while you do all the job and they thank you with a host migration. Team play have little to no impact unless you are in a pre-made squad for a specific task, but that's rare these days, because nothing is squad exclusive and with things like Mesmer Skin, anybody can be a one man army.

[Drachnyn]

This nerf isnt making shuriken, rest/rage, shock, expedite suffering, hideous resistance, etc any better.