What frames do you NOT Helmith skills on?

[Skoomaseller]

24 minutes ago, pwnSacrifice said:

Not too many frames escape the chair. These are the frames I play base kit though.

Octavia

Yareli

Kullervo

Voruna (with augment)

Citrine

Nidus

Dagoth and Quorvex I haven't played around with enough to really evaluate.

Everyone else gets *something* from the chair. Even Protea gets airburst, or infested mobility.

 

I never thought to use EM for Titania, I use arcane pistoleer for the same purpose but it can be fiddly with infested and murmur so I'm going to have to give it a shot.

Do it, trust. Then you can replace pistoleer with idk Velocity for even more fire rate than necessary or Precision for +300% damage. 

[pwnSacrifice]

1 minute ago, Skoomaseller said:

Do it, trust. Then you can replace pistoleer with idk Velocity for even more fire rate than necessary or Precision for +300% damage. 

Seeing as I'd be giving up nourish or beguiling lanturn for it, probably precision, but I'll have to test out a bit 

[Skoomaseller]

4 minutes ago, pwnSacrifice said:

Seeing as I'd be giving up nourish or beguiling lanturn for it, probably precision, but I'll have to test out a bit 

sometimes I forget not everyone has an R5 energize 🤦🏽 if energy is a concern you might wanna invest in a little efficiency, or Spellbound Harvest, but idk the effectiveness of that augment since I've never used it. 

[Aruquae]

1 minute ago, Skoomaseller said:

sometimes I forget not everyone has an R5 energize 🤦🏽 if energy is a concern you might wanna invest in a little efficiency, or Spellbound Harvest, but idk the effectiveness of that augment since I've never used it. 

Could also do shards. Some shards give your frame a built in equilibrium if you’re low on mod space. 

[Skoomaseller]

Just now, Aruquae said:

Could also do shards. Some shards give your frame a built in equilibrium if you’re low on mod space. 

Ah good call, yeah that too. 

[UnstarPrime]

Generally if a frame feels like it has a really cohesive kit or functional kit, and at the same time they don't have an obvious hole that feels in need of patching (like survivability), then I won't replace any of their abilities.  Those being the criteria, the frames I actually use even the slightest bit and don't Helminth are as follows:

• Ash
• Atlas
• Citrine
• Excalibur
• Gauss
• Grendel
• Ivara
• Lavos
• Nezha
• Nidus
• Octavia
• Qorvex
• Rhino
• Styanax
• Wisp
• Wukong
• Xaku
• Zephyr

[pwnSacrifice]

28 minutes ago, Skoomaseller said:

sometimes I forget not everyone has an R5 energize 🤦🏽 if energy is a concern you might wanna invest in a little efficiency, or Spellbound Harvest, but idk the effectiveness of that augment since I've never used it. 

I use amber shards for energy actually, I use nourish so I can free up mod space on dex pixia.

Btw: 5 amber shards is basically pre- nerf cracked out energize. Spellbound harvest is great, on other frames. Not so much for titania

I'm putting this all here so other titania players are inspired to toy around 

Edited March 1 by pwnSacrifice

[ReddyDisco]

Can't stay away from the stabby tentacle chair, only ones i haven't added anything are gauss, nidus, grendel, hydriod.

[Xzorn]

2 hours ago, UnstarPrime said:

Excalibur

 

Excal with Javs. I feel like that might be a rarity these days.

I swapped for Nourish so I could drop Energize and use Deflection + Reaper. Bleed procs make Armor DR frames go pop.
Chromatic Blade Corrosive + Viral + Heat does some decent work too.

I gave my Wisp Gloom over Sol Gate. It's probably overkill but it's funny. I wish Archon Intensify worked with Lifesteal.

[UnstarPrime]

41 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Excal with Javs. I feel like that might be a rarity these days.

I swapped for Nourish so I could drop Energize and use Deflection + Reaper. Bleed procs make Armor DR frames go pop.
Chromatic Blade Corrosive + Viral + Heat does some decent work too.

Fair!  Excalibur is one of my least used frames, and I can imagine that if I used him more I might end up removing either his 2 or his 3.

42 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

I gave my Wisp Gloom over Sol Gate. It's probably overkill but it's funny. I wish Archon Intensify worked with Lifesteal.

Also a fair pick...but have you ever stopped to just let your ears fall into the melodic sound of an active Sol Gate? XD

Probably one of those abilities that I want to work more than it actually works, as evidenced by how rarely I cast it. ^^

[ZantenZan]

So, setting aside the obvious Nourish usage across the roster, there are a few Warframes I use particular Helminth abilities with.

Xata's Whisper on my Revenant for Archon Hunts, instead of Reave; I find that squeezing the trigger on my Phenmor and aiming in the general direction of the boss' head is a LOT more effective when even my missed shots at least do some damage due to the Void status bubble.

Volt's Shock on my Kullervo, instead of Collective Curse. More specifically, using the Shock Trooper augment. I wanted something to help beef up the frequency of my Electricity status procs to better use Melee Influence. Whenever I get Voltaic Strike, I'll likely retest and see if I can get away with using something else instead.

Harrow's Condemn on my Saryn. Like its crowd control and shield recovery, and the shield recovery tends to come quicker than it does with Pillage.

Speaking of, Hildryn's Pillage on Gyre, for both some extra survivability and of course the armor stripping.

Nidus I think is the only one I can think of who I haven't really changed.

[PollexMessier]

I really want to put something on Gyre for better survivability. Pillage would be a great addition to her. But her whole kit synergizes with itself too well to justify removing anything.
Initially I thought coil horizon would be worth taking off but that thing deals stupid damage, has way more range than I thought it would, and does really great area denial.

[PR1D3]

Thems fighting words about Mag and Crush especially when her Fractured Crush Augment exists 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

On 2024-03-01 at 6:26 AM, Xzorn said:

If not for Endless Lullaby I'd probably swap to Radial Blind.

Breach Surge is an objectively better subsume because it not only blinds enemies but it doubles as a DPS ability with the head seeking surge sparks.

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

4 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

I really want to put something on Gyre for better survivability. Pillage would be a great addition to her. But her whole kit synergizes with itself too well to justify removing anything.

If you go up against Grineer or any enemies that have armor, Pillage is easily the superior option. Especially in high level Steel Path missions where electricity barely tickles enemies without stripping armor.

[Xzorn]

On 2024-03-03 at 10:10 PM, PR1D3 said:

Thems fighting words about Mag and Crush especially when her Fractured Crush Augment exists 

 

When they reworked the augment they gave it +50% cast speed. I feel like someone else might have noticed =D
Before Shield Gating you had to bubble hop Mag with Rolling Guard and that usually means you were busy priming bubbles and pulling.
It's why I'm very happy the fixed Pull finally. Though bubble hoping doesn't feel as reliable anymore.

On 2024-03-03 at 11:21 PM, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Breach Surge is an objectively better subsume because it not only blinds enemies but it doubles as a DPS ability with the head seeking surge sparks.

 

Objective seems a bit much. Breach Surge has lower range and longer cast time than Radial Blind.

[Berzerkules]

On 2024-03-03 at 3:04 PM, PollexMessier said:

I really want to put something on Gyre for better survivability. Pillage would be a great addition to her. But her whole kit synergizes with itself too well to justify removing anything.
Initially I thought coil horizon would be worth taking off but that thing deals stupid damage, has way more range than I thought it would, and does really great area denial.

I like breach surge on her 1. With Brief respite + one augur mod, catalyzing shields and -45 efficiency breach surge or coil horizon fully reset shield gat in one cast. Breach surge is a better panic button to reset shields imo since its locks everything down while coil horizon doesn't get the eximus. 

She is better with armor strip so I use argonak + gas/electric dagger + influence on her for aoe armor strip instead of a helminth. I actually use that set up on almost every frame that has grouping in their kit. It you use RDD you don't need to fully reset on cast, you can reset any amount after shields break and top off shields from RDD. This means you can swap catalyzing shields for primed redirection and you get the full shield gate duration of 2.5 seconds to reset shields and melee anything for full shield gate reset. 

[Xzorn]

On 2024-03-01 at 4:27 AM, Skoomaseller said:

do it. install Seeker onto your dex pixia. armies felled within seconds. 

i found it better to subsume off Lantern since with Razorwing Blitz the DPS spike in conjunction with Energized Munitions more than makes up for the final damage multiplier I would've gotten with Beguiling Lantern... I think.

I mean it definitely feels better but I've not bothered doing any calculations. Vibes-based building. Shooting endlessly just gives me a better dopamine hit. 

 

Tried this out. It's pretty crazy. I had to drop Ironclad Flight so Energize could do it's job. I didn't use Seeker though.

I'm low on Forma partial to the 90% status. Not a huge deal but might eventually. I sorta miss when Dex Pixia used Rifles cuz Primed Shred was an easy pick.

[Tiltskillet]

 

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

On 2024-03-03 at 8:21 PM, Ace-Bounty-Hunter said:

Breach Surge is an objectively better subsume because it not only blinds enemies but it doubles as a DPS ability with the head seeking surge sparks.

 

Objective seems a bit much. Breach Surge has lower range and longer cast time than Radial Blind.

And there's a delay even after its cast while Breach's projectiles seek out targets to blind, and it seems (even) less forgiving about LoS than Radial Blind.

However...and this is a big "however"...Breach Surge also blinds eximus through Overguard, while Radial Blind does not.  (Although the mini-RB on Exalted Blade spins does, because nothing in Warframe is straightforward.)

 

 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

3 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Objective seems a bit much. Breach Surge has lower range and longer cast time than Radial Blind.

Cast times are hardly an issue nowadays with Natural Talent and/or Amber Shards. Plus the huge room nuking potential from the ability really does offset its biggest downside.

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

However...and this is a big "however"...Breach Surge also blinds eximus through Overguard, while Radial Blind does not.

There is that as well. Radial Blind truly is inferior in comparison. 

[Skoomaseller]

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

Tried this out. It's pretty crazy. I had to drop Ironclad Flight so Energize could do it's job. I didn't use Seeker though.

I'm low on Forma partial to the 90% status. Not a huge deal but might eventually. I sorta miss when Dex Pixia used Rifles cuz Primed Shred was an easy pick.

well at least we still got razorwing blitz 

[Venus-Venera]

Am 1.3.2024 um 07:26 schrieb Xzorn:

Just curious. So many frames have at least one dead skill and in other cases their kit simply works better with another ability.

For myself:

• Rhino - Whole kit works well. Has since released.
• Voruna - Her 4th build simply can't work if I change anything.
• Frost - There's options but his augments are strong.
• Mag - An odd one. Always said her 4th is a great way to die but counter pulse and improved pull helped.
• Nidus - Don't feel like that needs explaining.
• Wukong - Survival, Survival and more Survival.
• Baruuk - If not for Endless Lullaby I'd probably swap to Radial Blind.
• Gauss - Guess I could ditch his 1st ability but it's so much fun.
• Octavia - Hardly play but it all just works.
• Titania - Just about everything I could want in a kit.

 

Also if you swapped skills on any of these I'd be curious what you picked.

You can't say it like that. There is a lot of input missing. Because everyone has their preferences and usually plays certain content. and there are already skill combinations that make a warframe unique. like auto-hack skill from Helmith for missions where no ciphers were possible. but that has now apparently been ruined.
because even inaros doesn't need any extra skill. because I'm installing the combat disc aura+crit arca, grace. and then as much armor+life+faster run as possible. and have a super chill survival warframe that hardly needs any format and moves fast enough.

[Xzorn]

21 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

You can't say it like that. There is a lot of input missing. Because everyone has their preferences and usually plays certain content. and there are already skill combinations that make a warframe unique. like auto-hack skill from Helmith for missions where no ciphers were possible. but that has now apparently been ruined.
because even inaros doesn't need any extra skill. because I'm installing the combat disc aura+crit arca, grace. and then as much armor+life+faster run as possible. and have a super chill survival warframe that hardly needs any format and moves fast enough.

 

It's just curiosity about other player's take on frame kits, how they stand up to the now forced meta of the game and potentially interesting ideas people have in replacing or complimenting builds. Like I was surprised quite a few people left Protea untouched as I found little value in her Dispensary outside Circuit.

I avoided "meta" and played how I wanted long as I could until they changed enemy defense scaling at which point I quit playing for 5 years. My weapons and frame builds were nothing like majority of the community because certain things had to be done to survive and kill higher level enemies. Now all you have to do is survive.

Some changes in the damage system have also affected frame kits. Like all the 1st ability Elemental buff augments.

[Hypertion]

On 2024-03-01 at 1:26 AM, Xzorn said:

Just curious. So many frames have at least one dead skill and in other cases their kit simply works better with another ability.

For myself:

• Rhino - Whole kit works well. Has since released.
• Voruna - Her 4th build simply can't work if I change anything.
• Frost - There's options but his augments are strong.
• Mag - An odd one. Always said her 4th is a great way to die but counter pulse and improved pull helped.
• Nidus - Don't feel like that needs explaining.
• Wukong - Survival, Survival and more Survival.
• Baruuk - If not for Endless Lullaby I'd probably swap to Radial Blind.
• Gauss - Guess I could ditch his 1st ability but it's so much fun.
• Octavia - Hardly play but it all just works.
• Titania - Just about everything I could want in a kit.

 

Also if you swapped skills on any of these I'd be curious what you picked.

 

I have done subsumes on basically every frame.. there is almost always some synergy, or interaction that can be exploited.

 

 

• Voruna - her 3 does effectively nothing to benefit her 4th build so i replace that with sickening pulse.. if for some reason i run out of her 4 i use pulse for a quick doubling of existing status she has put out, including slash from her 4. she really doesnt need surviablilty when she is spamming her 2 and 4 due to stuns and status (and iframe with her 2)
• Frost - I replaced Ice wave with Breech surge.. this combine with his passive augment allows you to get red crits for as high as 1mil on SP grineer by casting surge, Avalanch and then using his bubble to wall smash enemies.. its actually a very strong nuking build.
• Gauss - Again you can use Pulse to ampifly the DOT from Thermal Sunder, but removing his one does make it harder to maintain battery so its a tradeoff for greater nuking potential
• Titania - as someone else said, Energized munitions. Replace Lantern, minimum range build, Razor wing Blitz, LOTS of STR and DUR. The faster her pixia fire the more your sitting there waiting for reload, Energized Munitions effectively quadruple her mag size, allowing for longer fire times, and has a shorter duration than RWB so keeping up Munitions also keeps up blitz.
•  

Frames i have replaced despite not really needing it due to weird synergies

• Kullevuro - Replace his one with Breech Surge, Max range, Stack 1 3 4 in an area and the extreme amount of damage sharing is kind of terrifying... you can just sit and watch the fireworks with this.

for frames i dont usually replace on, but know of benefical ways to do so

• Mag - Using Fracturing Crush to replace armor strip on polarize allows you to subsume Polarize.. max range builds benefit hugely with pull, and overall Mag benefits hugely from range more than duration. you can replace Polarize doing this but there are not really any subsumes that benefit this kind of build, most damage buffing abilities dont last long enough, and she already has CC, survival, armor stripping. she is kind of a perfect frame with max range right out of the box.
• Octavia - if your using a min range buffing build, your weakest ability is your 4.. being immoble and having a tiny radius you are better replacing it with Nourish, Roar, Eclipse for the same effect but mobile.. even with minimum range her 1 and 2 will be able to get around and kill enemies surprisingly effectively and of course her 3 is goated.. i usually stick with max range tho so i have never actually done this myself.
• Wukong - various replacements. Replace his cloud on a "counterstrike" build where you use Defy as a Nuke, replace his clone on builds that focus on Iron staff as Clone barely uses it anyways, Replace his Staff on a generalist build if you dont wanna use the Exaulted stick. Personally i replace the cloud most commonly, but usually dont replace anything on him.

Frames i feel Genuinely lose something if you do a subsume, but have found intresting builds with subsumes reguardless

• Lavos - Subsume anything on him and you loose a base element.. Replace his "weakest" ability in vial rush and you lose Viral procs and the ability to leave lingering pools that stack status... honestly his 2 should be called VIRAL rush because of how good it is at stacking Viral.. however, if you build purely to power and range, and ignore efficency then amazingly his 3rd becomes a good option to subsume.. you want to stack Viral and Heat/Gas more than you want shock or corrosive/Magnetic/Radiation and the lack of efficency means he regens very little cooldown on its use, which is already common when enemies are too few or too spread out... so you can Replace his 3rd with Sickening Pulse to double stack the fire procs from his 4 and instantly max out Viral, allowing a 3 4 combo that does a much higher spike of DPS...
• Citrine - her 4 is great, but not giving its bonus on headshots does put it on a short list... however because of the way the rest of her kit works, she really doesnt benefit from subsumes.. you can do pulse to stack status from her gem, surge for added aoe from enemies targeted by her gem and her 1, but overall she really benefits minimally from anything but just straight boosting her damage or maybe even Pillage for armor strip + survivablilty over the CC of her 4

 

so ya if im being dead honest... there really isnt anything that i havent tried subsumes on...

[voltocitygel]

My general policy when building a warframe:

1. Find out how their kit works and interacts. Usually done while leveling, with wiki follow up.

2. Build for the parts of the kit I enjoy

3. evaluate to see how it works. Is everything good?

4. if one ability is lackluster, or has a helminth option that does its job better, replace it with something that either fits the build or suits my playstyle. 
 

More often than not I replace a skill- but as I have seen in the thread, some warframes have so much synergy going on with their kits that it’s counterproductive to replace anything.