Unpopular opinion DE should make archon shards buyable from market and quests pay to skip

[RLanzinger]

12 hours ago, quxier said:

Me : "Archon shards buyable from market == Pay 2 WIN, so NOPE"

It's very bad joke. You should be ashamed... unless that's what you meant.

Ya know me so much 😅,

SHAME ON ME...

...

...

... _{if anyone think about GoT, y'a should consult as  specialist ^^}

11 hours ago, Lorax_962 said:

ah yes the purist,

Thanks for the compliment^🌈 ❤️, but I did find a lot of grind too much. Since 2013 I'd advice often to pay if you don't have a lot of time to play.

-May it be Warframes, Railjack, Necramech or Forma as long as you have done the node once, Grind or Pay is a fair choice.

-For Weekly Times gates items like Baro's OR Archons, Pay to complete the mission or One extra pay per week is fair but unlimited Pay is not.

Even if it is a lot less impacting in a 4 team play like Warframe than in most MMORPG; Such Pay2Win is bad n' toxic in the long run (even if I don't mind them paying [DE] for me to have free UPDATE :p -) yeah I'm a bit honest sometimes)

[Circle_of_Psi]

As much as I'd love to have buyable Shards or Umrba forma

I don't want to upset the wallet

[Aruquae]

22 hours ago, quxier said:

On 2024-04-07 at 4:41 PM, Aruquae said:

 

If it wasn't obvious from the OP's tittle they meant:

- trade from other players with any quantity, tau and normal, 6 kinds

- or at least buy from the market with any quantiy, without time gate.. .etc

23 hours ago, SABRETOOTH1971 said:

Oh, I knew what they meant

I just took advantage of the lack of specifics 

Nah nvm, I can't read

Edited April 8 by Aruquae

[(XBOX)K1jker]

They should put umbra forma into the market. 

[Aruquae]

15 hours ago, Lorax_962 said:

they are buyable but i said from market, but i will be even more specific and say for plat!

Dang, you got me there 

GGs

[Waeleto]

56 minutes ago, (XBOX)K1jker said:

They should put umbra forma into the market. 

YES PLEASE

[Hexerin]

15 hours ago, Voltage said:

While Warframe is already a P2W game by technicality

Warframe is a cooperative PvE game, the concept of P2W literally cannot apply by definition.

_{^{We ignore Conclave, because nobody actually plays Conclave.}}

Edited April 8 by Hexerin

[Voltage]

16 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Warframe is a cooperative PvE game, the concept of P2W literally cannot apply by definition.

_{^{We ignore Conclave, because nobody actually plays Conclave.}}

P2W is a graded spectrum, and where a game sits depends on many factors. Games where you cannot buy anything after owning the base game are a 0, while games like Diablo Immortal are a 10. Warframe would be ~6 for me. That doesn't mean the game pushes spending down your throat, but you can absolutely spend money to bypass many goals of the game, and cosmetics are also part of the factorization given that looking good in a game has positive feelings relative to your cosmetic choices.

P2W isn't black and white.

[Hexerin]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

P2W is a graded spectrum, and where a game sits depends on many factors. Games where you cannot buy anything after owning the base game are a 0, while games like Diablo Immortal are a 10. Warframe would be ~6 for me. That doesn't mean the game pushes spending down your throat, but you can absolutely spend money to bypass many goals of the game, and cosmetics are also part of the factorization given that looking good in a game has positive feelings relative to your cosmetic choices.

P2W isn't black and white.

The definition of P2W is "the ability to spend real money on competitive advantages over other players". PvE games cannot be/have P2W, because PvE isn't competitive. Especially when the PvE in question is cooperative, like Warframe. No amount of screeching by people like yourself will change that definition, you just make yourself look ignorant by attempting to warp it to apply to whatever you disagree with.

[Merrcenary]

naaaah, but they definitely should make shards tradable

[Packetdancer]

23 hours ago, SABRETOOTH1971 said:

I want to skip playing the game to play the game. Never understood that way of thinking.

While I agree it's not a mindset I personally adhere to, I do kind of understand it.

I've had friends pick up Warframe and then get frustrated because they're at the beginning of the star chart and actually getting to the stuff they see streamers doing looks like it will take forever. And if all your friends who play are off at the endgame... sure, they can come back and play early star chart with you, but sometimes it's hard for folks to scale down so they're not just overpowering all the content you're in as a newer Tenno and leaving you no space to actually play. In some cases, the person runs out of steam (occasionally before even reaching the Second Dream) and drifts off again.

So, sure, I can see people who want to skip right to the meat of things wanting a story-skip to get to later content and play more actively with friends. As I said, it's not a mindset I ascribe to, but I can at least understand where it might come from.

[Lorax_962]

22 hours ago, Kaiga said:

I mean if you consider the game itself a grind too boring to play and would rather pay your way through it to avoid playing it,

Maybe you should find another game? There are plenty of games where the main gameplay loop is the microtransaction checkout screen.

i never said that, if you dont want to pay and support a game, then maybe you should find another game?

 

20 hours ago, Madinogi said:

Archon shard for Plat via the Market, absolutely not, their meant to be a Endgame reward, not only does buying them from the market devalue them and make it actual pay to win since they grant stat boosts you otherwise cannot get. particularly from the new Shards.

but make em tradable among players, would be fine, it wont change the value of them since the only ones that exist are those already in players possessions, and it gives anouther place to make some plat if you have shards you dont want or use, or youre friends are getting some bad luck, you can trade with anouther person.

if that way makes you happy then im okay with trading too, then everyone will get mad and say there will be too many bots though, id rather support warframe

 

20 hours ago, Waeleto said:

AND buyable umbra forma, there is no reason for those to be SO scarce, DE gets plat and i get to finish my builds that's a win/win situation for everyone

YESSSSS i forgot to add but incarnons should be buyable as well

 

11 hours ago, TARINunit9 said:

I have two huge issues with this

First off, "timesavers" is a buzzword used by Electronic Arts and Ubisoft to justify making their games f**king terrible so they can fill them with micro transactions and season passes so they seem slightly less terrible. Warframe does dabble in some scaled-down versions of these practices, because it's a truly free-to-play game; DE doesn't want to flood their game with EA-styled "timesavers", it would be unhealthy

Secondly, moving away from the economics discussion, I play Warframe specifically to waste my own time. I don't need convenient timesavers, that would kind of defeat the point

some of us value our time, if you want to waste your time go watch the grass grow

[UnstarPrime]

2 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Warframe is a cooperative PvE game, the concept of P2W literally cannot apply by definition....The definition of P2W is "the ability to spend real money on competitive advantages over other players".

My gut reaction was, "that's not the definition of P2W!"  But then I took a step back, decided to check my biases at the door, and went to do some research.  I did a simple search for "pay to win" on Duckduckgo and here are the first 5 results I found, in order without any cherry-picking:

• https://www.makeuseof.com/what-is-pay-to-win-in-video-games/ In the simplest terms, "pay-to-win" describes a game where paying real money gives players a significant advantage over those who don't spend any money.
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play "pay-to-win"— that is, that players can generally pay to obtain competitive or power advantages over other players.
• https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/pay-to-win pay-to-win: in computer games, involving or relating to the practice of paying to get weapons, abilities, etc. that give you an advantage over players who do not spend money
• https://www.howtogeek.com/771884/what-is-a-pay-to-win-game (this article didn't have a concise definition, but seemed to use the term to describe both multiplayer and single-player games, though it clarified that a common perception was that being P2W is considered "worse" in PvP games.
• https://www.gamedesigning.org/gaming/pay-to-win-games/ (this article also didn't have a definition, but it did list Warframe as one of the "best P2W games"

So at least according to all of these results, we can see that P2W is often being defined and discussed in ways that don't limit it to PvP games.  Now, does that mean that's the official definition?  I would immediately be murdered by linguists if I said "yes".  The truth is, language is flexible, especially when it comes to neologisms like P2W, so it's no surprise that different people have slightly different understandings of the term.

If we want to have semantic debates, we can argue about what the "real" definition is.  But do we want that?  I don't; that sounds exhausting and meaningless.  When my definition of a word is slightly different than your definition of a word, the best thing to do is just clarify the idea that we're intending to express and progress the conversation.  Getting everyone to agree on something — even something as theoretically simple as the definition of a word — is an exercise in futility.

I hope this helps anyone in any way because I spent way too much time researching and writing it XD

Edited April 8 by UnstarPrime
clarity

[Lorax_962]

11 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

As much as I'd love to have buyable Shards or Umrba forma

I don't want to upset the wallet

then dont buy? im not saying they should only be buyable

 

9 hours ago, (XBOX)K1jker said:

They should put umbra forma into the market. 

+1

[Lorax_962]

average P2W complainer: "oh no somebody help my teammates have too many archon shards he bought" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Packetdancer]

28 minutes ago, UnstarPrime said:

Now, does that mean that's the official definition?  I would immediately be murdered by linguists if I said "yes".

Hrm. Which element is that faction weak to, again? Might want to make sure you have an appropriate loadout...

Joking aside, I tend to agree that "P2W" isn't necessarily a PvP-specific concept (or term). After all, you can "win" a single-player game, so you can certainly "win" a PvE game.

(Your personal definition of "win" might differ from others, but regardless.)

[CephalonOlphus]

*DE allows shards for plat*
*Naive players flock to the new hot build/frame* "wow this is great nothing can ever go wrong with this"
*DE nerfs frame/shard*
"I demand a refund for this false advertising, DE won't receive my money ever again!!!"

Sounds like great entertainment, they should do it.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

I see the contest for "worst take of 2024" is still going strong..

6 minutes ago, CephalonOlphus said:

*DE allows shards for plat*
*Naive players flock to the new hot build/frame* "wow this is great nothing can ever go wrong with this"
*DE nerfs frame/shard*
"I demand a refund for this false advertising, DE won't receive my money ever again!!!"

Sounds like great entertainment, they should do it.

pretty much. once you've seen this cycle enough times you can predict it. as soon as I saw Dante's damage numbers I knew he was getting hit (though they really were on his case even quicker than I expected). 

I don't really care even if shards became purchasable, doing all Deep Archimedia, Netracells and Archon hunts has my shard count higher than it's ever been.

[RichardKam]

22小时前 , (PSN)slightconfuzzled 说:

All I am saying is that if more people played Conclave more often, eventually they would enjoy it. Warframes shouldn't have butts, because they serve no actual function. Some of the butts are also too big, Wisp, Nezha and Styanax Deluxe, Atlas, Mesa and Protea Prime are especially guilty. Flat cardboard blocks in their place would be more interesting and lore accurate. Octavia's music with her kit should be even louder and no one should be able to toggle it off, because we all work hard on creating her sound, and so everyone should be forced to listen to it. 

Yareli's K-Drive should be her subsume... so all Warframes can have the option to be a K-Drive Warframe. Heirloom skins should be more expensive, because they should be a sign of prestige, so when poor people look at you in game, they can tell you are successful and hard working. All missions should be under 5 minutes, otherwise they get boring. They should introduce a new third Premium Currency Regal Platinum, and introduce new cool stuff that can only be brought with it, so people who have Platinum and Regal Aya don't get complacent. All the colour palettes should be deleted, and all Warframes should be only grey. Ordis should be constantly talking in your Orbiter, and get progressively louder. Then if you try to mute him, he should threaten to delete your gear and then actually start deleting it. You shouldn't be able to grind for new Prime Warframes, in the first year of release. Only buy with real money. 

Then finally, Warframe should try to be more like Destiny 2... no, no Overwatch 2. Battle passes, plus get rid of all the solo content, and PVE, only PVP from no on. 

Installing forma and potato should have 50% of failure and causing you to loss the item, unless you buy "installation insurance" from the market with 10 plat each.

All gear items have an expiry date.

Bring back companion DNA stability.

4 revives per day, which can be brought by plat.

Return of stamina bar, with a 10x capacity upgrade from the market for 10 plat, which also expires.

[TARINunit9]

2 hours ago, Lorax_962 said:

some of us value our time

Yes, and companies that put "timesavers" in their games are the ones wasting your time the most, by far. That's why we hate timesavers: fewer timesavers means more time saved

[Xzorn]

One thing that has always held true for Warframe is that things always get easier to farm as they age.

I remember farming 3 hours to get a Vitality mod. I remember spending countless hours farming R5 cores. I remember Arcanes being weekly gated for one then later two. I remember Rivens only came from once a day Sorties. I remember Kuva only came from Kuva siphons. I remember Umbra forma only came once per Nightwave.

Archon Shards are no different. It's just something that keeps players busy but will eventually be trivialized.
This is why back when the Hema reasoning came out I actually laughed out loud. You're time investment is never safe.

[Packetdancer]

4 hours ago, RichardKam said:

Installing forma and potato should have 50% of failure and causing you to loss the item, unless you buy "installation insurance" from the market with 10 plat each.

*traumatized Final Fantasy XIV 1.0 player noises*

As explanation... in FFXIV you can "overmeld' gear, attaching more materia to the gear than it has slots for. However, there's a very high chance of breaking the materia when you try. Fundamentally, imagine if you could try to fuse extra forma into mod slots, with a low chance of success, and if you lost the forma would be gone but if you succeeded you'd have two polarities in the slot. Or something like that.

Back in FFXIV 1.0, however, you did not destroy the materia if you failed... you destroyed the gear itself. So those of us who lived through that... uhm, experience of a first incarnation of the game have already dealt with a gameplay mechanic that is fundamentally the "attempting to install a forma or potato has a 50% chance of entirely destroying the frame/weapon instead" which you describe.

I realize you're being sarcastic and all, but... please, no. Never again.

[Hexerin]

7 hours ago, UnstarPrime said:

-snip-

You don't get to just arbitrarily change the definition of a term, full stop.

[Circle_of_Psi]

9 hours ago, Lorax_962 said:

then dont buy? im not saying they should only be buyable

Oh no, I know, I was joking :d

I really want to have Archon Shards & Umbra Froma so it's a +10000 for me

[Jorak_Falconstar]

Archon Shard are already buyable - but price needs to be prohibitively higher than what it is.

 

Pay to skip quests: - the brought this up just recently and got blasted with a resounding NO.

If you want to pay to skip fine, but your account will be tagged with a "SKIPPER"  label that will never under any circumstance be removed, and entitles anyone you ask for help with something that did not pay to skip to ridicule you forever more with statements like "You seriously cant need help since your obviously better at everything since you paid to skip content" in the most mocking tone they can summon.