PC Dante Unbound: Hotfix 35.5.6

[Siic07]

If you like LOS so much, put LOS on all Warframes and see if players will like

LOS is one of the worst things they added to the game and only makes the game more boring to play

[Cpt.Casual]

1 hour ago, Galexivity said:

I believe I speak for the majority when the main issue with Dante when it comes to Tragedy is the LoS. While we appreciate the fixes that you are doing, you need to see that the best fix for Dante's tragedy is to revert the LoS changes on it and make it a circle again. Reduce the range of it if that's the problem. Don't make it one-shot level 26 enemies if that's the problem. But once again, you're missing the mark just by a tad. Please just get rid of LoS for Dante's Tragedy. There are so many reasons and possible solutions that members have asked for who play your game for hours on end. We love you DE, but we really want you to listen. ;n;

So perfectly stated. And it's been stated again and again and again. Why in the world are the devs so insistent on forcing us to play with a currently bugged LoS system. Please revert Dante's Tragedy to a circle, reducing the range and/or damage if needed. 20m base, like Saryn's Miasma, would be enough for us to work with, but the point is that we want to be able to reliably detonate our Dark Verses (which already had to do LoS check...) and our teammates' statuses if they care to prime. 

Continue to work on LoS fixes if you must, but please do so on your end rather than pushing buggy, untested changes to the player base. This has been such a dissatisfying experience and is making me feel like I'm investing my gaming budget in the wrong game. 

[Myci43]

Please allow rage to restore energy to anyone with overguard.  This would be the best change for dante, as he is extremely hungry for energy. It would free you up to build for more strength/range which would take the edge off the original nerf from his nuke.

There is no reason to pigeon-hole rage mechanics to health tanks. Why are  shield and overguard tanks restricted from using it?

Edited April 10 by Myci43

[Hexerin]

5 minutes ago, Gandalf_White said:

Next time try playing on a tileset that isn't called "Lua" or "Void" or "Zariman"

Zariman is one of the worst maps for LoS, due to how cramped and full of doodads it is.

[Simeoff]

Thanks for addressing the Nezha nerf and tweaking it

[AliceTheAxolotl]

Still being stubborn and ignoring feedback? You still haven't fixed the biggest issue with Dante, which is Tragedy being affected by LoS. Fixing LoS on Dark Verse and other frames is a welcome change, but you're still sticking your head in the sand.

[BionicFreak]

Still pretending to not see what ALL of us are saying, huh?

We. Do. Not. Want. LOS. For. Tragedy.

In all truthfulness, none of us want LOS requirements for ANY Warframe Ability and AOE Weapon. LOS has given joy to NO ONE.

Edited April 10 by BionicFreak

[NightmareT12]

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Rage and Hunter Adrenaline 

I want to double check in game how this works, because depending on how it's implemented it may be quite the behavior and build and reliance change. WIll give feedback once done.

And thanks for the improvements done on various abilities on top of Dante's :)

 

EDIT: I see it's an addition to the already existing mechanic, that's great. Thanks guys, will provide some feedback with overhealth specific interactions :)

Edited April 10 by NightmareT12

[Fenastreal]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

Rage and Hunter Adrenaline 

Previously, Overguard granted by allies could prevent you from gaining Energy from these Mods (since it blocked damage dealt to Health). So, in an effort to create a more co-op friendly experience between the two, we’ve made the following change:  

Now, Rage and Hunter Adrenaline can convert the Damage on Overguard granted by allies to Energy while Shields are inactive. 

More specifically, they will trigger when the last source of Overguard originates from an ally (includes Warframe Specters with Overguard abilities spawned by allies.) This allows shield-less Warframes, such as Inaros and Nidus, to be able to regenerate Energy via these Mods when they would have previously been blocked by Overguard granted by allies. 

Here are the exact stat details:

• Rage: +40% (same effectiveness as the base functionality) of Damage on Overguard granted by allies to Energy while Shields are inactive. 
• Hunter Adrenaline: +45% (same effectiveness as the base functionality) of Damage on Overguard granted by allies to Energy while Shields are inactive.  

NOTE: Warframes that grant themselves Overguard, like Kullervo or Rhino, will not be able to trigger Rage and Hunter Adrenaline from their own Overguard. Only Overguard granted by allies is eligible because this is the only interaction that is potentially disruptive to your build (i.e your ally puts Overguard onto your Rage-Build Nidus). 

Necramech Rage and Kinetic Diversion (Archwing) have also had the same changes applied to them with Overguard interactions: 

• Necramech Rage: Convert +15% of Damage on Overguard gained from allies to Energy. 
• Kinetic Diversion: Convert +40% of Damage on Overguard gained from allies to Energy. 

General Overguard Change:

• Frost’s Icy Avalanche Augment Mod will now grant Overguard to non-player allies in radius (i.e. Sentinels, Companions, Specters). 

I like the overall direction this change is, it feels good, but at the same time, a couple of points were brought up by myself and others:

1) Kinetic Plating for Gauss is also affected by the OG from other players, and does not differentiate between whether it was shields or health, disrupting Gauss players.

2) A lot of people mentioned that Kullervo SHOULD be able to generate energy through OG, Rhino is understandable to a degree as he still has shields unless you used Parasitic Armor first, in which case it also should count. It feels like a very niche-case change to not allow it to apply to self generated OG.

3) On the topic of OG to nonplayer allies, is there any chance of this applying to Eidolon Lures as well? It would offer up a new way to handle lures during hunts that would allow for some change of pace for those of us who just like casually hunting and trying out new, wacky ideas.

4) On the topic of a post made by another:

Quote

Corrupted Rage - +55% Damage on health to Energy, - Cannnot recieve overguard, shields halved in strength. - Tehcaro

I propose something similar in light of of something that is still in line with the current OG change, would be made better with Rage/HA working regardless of the source

Quote

Constant Rage 13 Capacity at Max, 10 Rank, Madurai Polarity - +55% Damage on health to Energy. -100% Max Shields. (5%/rank, -100% max shields at all ranks)

It would allow for frames that are already played in a similar vain to a health tank, like Grendal, to still have a rage buff with a Dante in party, and just facilitate differing styles of play, in general, and if the change was made to allow for self OG, then allow for things like a Health tank Frost or Rhino, with their main source of survivability being solely OG, losing shield gating but gaining a new source of energy generation. Needless to say, due to naming it Constant Rage, it would be incompatible with Rage, but still work with HA.

[captn_Pat]

Not only did you not scrap that damn los from dantes 4, no you gave it a damage cap (insert austin powers: 1 billion, wow such power, some weapon/frame combinations can do -2 billion no probs, no cap) because killing 5 mobs in half a room was too powerful, maybe put in a target cap also or let him just run slower for no reason or his book could randomly attack him. At this point i dont even care anymore, just another once great frame that gets sidelined, back to saryn i guess, she isnt disruptive at all.

 

[PollexMessier]

Thank you for fixing Divine retribution. That is much more reasonable

For those wondering, Divine spear's base range is 19. Which makes this a range reduction of about 26.3%. Almost half the reduction it was before, and more generous than even the 30% suggestion I saw a lot of people floating around.

This I'm super happy with.

The "while shields are depleted" qualifier on rage and adrenaline working for overguard is.... a bit dumb tbh. It might as well just say what it means: "Only works on overguard for frames that don't have shields" which, imo, is really stupid. It does also kinda work on frames that can deplete their own shields intentionally. But there's literally only one frame that can do that, that doesn't already have an inbuilt method of energy generation. Valkyr... who really doesn't need it. I do get that it's a bit op to get get free energy from overguard damage. But I'm sure there's plenty of other options you could have come up with that aren't so restrictive.

I'm really happy to see something finally being done about LoS issues in the game.... But, and I've said this already in a previous post, it REALLY should not have taken such a long time to get to, and such a major screw up to prompt this fix. It's been a massive issue with the game people have been complaining about for years. If this was fixed ages ago, and you guys actually tested things well enough to determine you'd want to put Los on tragedy before release, this wouldn't have been an issue.

That said, anything less than a nearly full revert of Dante at this point is just not enough. And that "nearly" modifier, is only there because reducing overguard generation on just allies, and not Dante himself, is a sensible nerf to his release state. It really doesn't even matter how survivable he is with his nerfed overguard, and how much damage he does with LoS at this point. Why? Because you lied. You guys said it would be a "small tweak" and then you more than halved his overguard generation, and gave tragedy line of sight. Which, weather LoS is functional or not, is a massive nerf to tragedy, not a ""small tweak"". You guys halved his overall power at the least. That might be the single hardest nerf you've ever made in the game. And by extension, Dante getting a "small tweak" might be the biggest lie to ever come out of any of the devs' mouths in regards to the game. You guys absolutely blew it with this one. Full stop. It was an objective, undeniable mistake that you guys need to fix. You took a sledgehammer to a pipe in your walls, and you need to replace that pipe entirely and patch up the hole you made, not slap some ducktape over it and call it good.

Every time you guys make a mistake like this, and don't fix it, more and more players get fed up with it. And you've done this a lot at this point. There's only so many times you can kick us in the balls and then give us flowers before we start to wise up and realize no matter how pretty and extravagant those flowers are, you're just gonna kick us in the balls again.

So, as much as I appreciate that you've tried to patch things up, and did genuinely fix some real issues... You haven't patched up everything properly, you haven't stayed true to your word, and you've proven time and time again that this is how you're going to keep acting. I'm getting sick of it. I used to play this game hours a day and enjoy every second of it. Now i barely play an hour a week. And it's not cus I don't find the game fun anymore. It's because you guys have burned me so many times it's hard for me to enjoy playing it anymore. And I have at least 3 friends I used to play this with that hit the same breaking point long before I did, 1 that this particular update broke them, and 2 who are fairly new that bought Dante, and I can already tell their opinion and enjoyment of the game has dropped drastically from how they were acting prior to the update. These two in particular put more money into the game in their first month of playing than I have over the course of several years, so those are well-paying customers you've damaged your reputation with. You're hemorrhaging players and money to this crap.

Edited April 11 by PollexMessier
Minor grammar and spelling fixes.

[RitaSanderson]

Most of the warframe skins/warframe and operator clothes have been broken since Citrine update for more than a year now. There still no acknowledge from DE. Will we ever see this fixed?

 

[DrNut]

There has still been no mention about the issues Garuda faces, such as her 4 being affected by LoS and her talons not allowing arcanes. I would love to at least see acknowledgement of these longstanding problems.

[mweepigeon]

Rage/Adrenaline change is still very frustrating to frames that want that effect but have some amount of shields. As an Oberon player especially, since you want to keep a channeled ability online constantly, your options for energy economy are fairly limited - Rage/Adrenaline, Equilibrium or Energize with orb generation, or Dethcube. If granting Overguard to allies continues to become more prevalent, that cuts out Rage/Adrenaline as a viable option.

[Joshua1462]

I am glad that Dante is reliable and strong again.
I am also extremely grateful that they are finally trying to fix the line of sight problems in Warframe.
but I feel like the attempt to fix the problems with Overguard only helped a select few frames, :( it needs to be looked at for all warframes

[Raikh]

1 hour ago, [DE]Megan said:

NOTE: Warframes that grant themselves Overguard, like Kullervo or Rhino, will not be able to trigger Rage and Hunter Adrenaline from their own Overguard. Only Overguard granted by allies is eligible because this is the only interaction that is potentially disruptive to your build (i.e your ally puts Overguard onto your Rage-Build Nidus). 

That sounds super unintuitive. Handling it like that will inevitably make this some sort of obscure trivia you just need to know, rather than being a general mechanic of Overguard. And how does that work for say Kullervo when he isn't using his own Overguard but only gets it from Dante/Frost/Styanax in multiplayer? How does it work if he gets some on top of his own from Dante/Frost/Styanax? How does this work with Overguard generated from Decrees in Duviri?

And notably, since shields can't be damaged while Overguard is active I don't see this having a massive impact on the usage of Rage/Hunter's Adrenaline either way. Quite the opposite, this change only really helps Nidus and Inaros than someone building their energy economy around Rage in general. If I wanted to use Rage on someone like Chroma then Overguard would still ruin my day.

I very much appreciate adressing the issue. But it being so specifically targeted at just 2 Frames while causing it to be highly unintuitive in the process, just doesn't sit right with me. Would like to see a solution thats more broadly applicable and thus more intuitive so I don't need to check every single case on a wiki page going forward.

[Daviodraan]

hace 1 hora, [DE]Momaw dijo:

Can you be more specific why you think it's not working? I see the Onos' crit and status chance get modified as expected when I enable this evolution....

If you enable Elemental Excess, It will indeed modify the base stats. However, scaling is broken.

I get 99.2% Status chance (42% base) with Galvanized shot + 3 elemental+status mods

If you pick a 30% base Status chance Secondary, and use those mods, you get 108%

at 42% base status chance we should be getting 151% status chance with Galvanized Shot + 3 60%-60% mods

Also noticed, with just Primed pistol gambit and no Elemental excess, we get 74% crit chance
With elemental excess we get 64%

With -10% base crit (16%) chance, we should be getting 45% CC with Pistol Gambit+Elemental Excess on.

Edit: Captures of my Onos and Loadout

Edited April 10 by Daviodraan

[WhipandT3ar]

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Updated Overguard Interactions With Vex Armor, Rage, & Hunter Adrenaline  

As announced last week, we’ve changed how Overguard interacts with effects that benefit from receiving damage on Warframe to make it more co-op friendly. Specifically, Chroma’s Vex Armor and the Rage and Hunter Adrenaline Mods. The conversations regarding Dante’s abilities with Overguard became a driving factor to look at these interactions and find ways in which we can make them work to benefit co-op play. Overall, these changes aim to create a harmonious arrangement between the often unpredictable Overguard gains from allies and Vex Armor, Rage, and Hunter Adrenaline.

The following changes are in addition to their existing functionality. 

Chroma’s Vex Armor

Previously, Overguard would prevent Chroma from benefiting from his Vex Armor buffs (since it blocked damage on Health and Shields). So, we’ve made the following change to allow players to receive the buffs through all sources of Overguard: 

Now: Melee kills now grant a 15% Armor increase and ranged kills a 15% increase to Weapon Damage (doubled to 30% for ranged weak point kills). 

This has the additional perk of self-sufficiency where players have far more control over the buffs, instead of having to rely on the unpredictability of damage dealt by enemies. 

Rage and Hunter Adrenaline 

Previously, Overguard granted by allies could prevent you from gaining Energy from these Mods (since it blocked damage dealt to Health). So, in an effort to create a more co-op friendly experience between the two, we’ve made the following change:  

Now, Rage and Hunter Adrenaline can convert the Damage on Overguard granted by allies to Energy while Shields are inactive. 

More specifically, they will trigger when the last source of Overguard originates from an ally (includes Warframe Specters with Overguard abilities spawned by allies.) This allows shield-less Warframes, such as Inaros and Nidus, to be able to regenerate Energy via these Mods when they would have previously been blocked by Overguard granted by allies. 

Here are the exact stat details:

• Rage: +40% (same effectiveness as the base functionality) of Damage on Overguard granted by allies to Energy while Shields are inactive. 
• Hunter Adrenaline: +45% (same effectiveness as the base functionality) of Damage on Overguard granted by allies to Energy while Shields are inactive.  

NOTE: Warframes that grant themselves Overguard, like Kullervo or Rhino, will not be able to trigger Rage and Hunter Adrenaline from their own Overguard. Only Overguard granted by allies is eligible because this is the only interaction that is potentially disruptive to your build (i.e your ally puts Overguard onto your Rage-Build Nidus). 

 

Can we get a fix for elemental ward as well? I get half my kit shut off when running it on hildryn if there's a Dante or a stynax in the squad

[LordOfKenpo]

Let me start this message by saying thank you for fixing some of the issues and listening on some of the feedback. 

I would still like to see LOS removed from tragedy (if not the game in general). Having abilities that function better on some tile sets than others or that are affected by user settings (ie FoV) is not good game design. It also means that frame using LoS will be used less on some tile sets than others since they become entirely unplayable on some maps. One of my favorite things about warframe has been that every frame is playable if used correctly. I'm not sure why total balance is so important as long as that remains true, this is a PVE game at the end of the day. Sure, there should be a reasonable max/min power level, but it didn't feel to me that Dante was the strongest frame in the game, just the most fun. I genuinely enjoyed his playstyle and that's why I'm so upset about the changes. I'm not against reducing his original range to 20-30m or reducing/removing the base damage of Tragedy. I just feel like LoS makes the game so much less fun and at the end of the day, this is a game, fun is the end goal for us as players and it should be for the developers as well.

[Ottofyre]

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

There has been a considerable amount of change in a small amount of time, much of which could have arguably received some more careful consideration prior to release. Balance changes are only ever done with the best of intentions for the overall health of the game, but we have to recognize when we’ve overstepped.

Even I have to admit that the extent of that initial nerf was alarming. Still sorry you had to deal with so much unnecessary aggression over it. But I had faith that you would listen to the feedback and get Dante where he needed to be.

I appreciate that you all took care of him so quickly. 

[Waeleto]

2 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

General Overguard Change:

• Frost’s Icy Avalanche Augment Mod will now grant Overguard to non-player allies in radius (i.e. Sentinels, Companions, Specters). 

 

Can we make it so frost doesn't lose overguard on falling off the map or being nullified ? i think his overguard is following the logic of the old augment functionality 

[Fenastreal]

4 minutes ago, Daviodraan said:

If you enable Elemental Excess, It will indeed modify the base stats. However, scaling is broken.

I get 99.2% Status chance (42% base) with Galvanized shot + 3 elemental+status mods

If you pick a 30% base Status chance Secondary, and use those mods, you get 108%

at 42% base status chance we should be getting 151% status chance with Galvanized Shot + 3 60%-60% mods

Also noticed, with just Primed pistol gambit and no Elemental excess, we get 74% crit chance
With elemental excess we get 64%

With -10% base crit (16%) chance, we should be getting 45% CC with Pistol Gambit+Elemental Excess on.

Elemental Excess is a flat add, so it checks out, as it is 20% added after all the other modifiers, so what it actually looks like is

Quote

0.22*(1+0.8+0.6+0.6+0.6)+0.2=0.992

[DrNut]

I think rage type mods should be reworked to also have a diminished effect when damage is dealt to a player while their shield is active. This would allow more varied builds involving those mods and make them more reliable on frames like Oberon where channeled abilities need more consistent upkeep, which overguard will disrupt without a subsumed ability like Parasitic Armor to keep shields down

Edited April 10 by DrNut
More clear wording was needed in the first sentance.

[Tiltskillet]

11 minutes ago, Raikh said:

That sounds super unintuitive. Handling it like that will inevitably make this some sort of obscure trivia you just need to know, rather than being a general mechanic of Overguard.

I don't know about Rhino, but Kullervo kind of had to be an exception by virtue of being able to generate Overguard and having no shields to throttle the energy gain from HA/Rage.  He'd be an exponentially better HA user than any of the traditional health tankers that it's tuned for.

I agree though, it's awkward as something people will have to look up on the wiki to find out. 

Edited April 10 by Tiltskillet

[JargenBakt]

The changes to weapon information statistics in the arsenal are still in place therefore still hiding critical information to the player via hover overs. Still calling for these UI changes to be reverted because these changes were completely unnecessary and serve absolutely no purpose to anyone.