PC PC Dante Unbound: Hotfix 35.5.7

[Do_High_Go]

9 hours ago, Halo said:

New Bug - New Bug - New Bug

Phantom Enemies: 
- Playing new Omnia Fissure on Persto in the Sanctum tileset (you'll see clearly in the image link provided below)
- Slaughtering enemies as one would normally do
- Weirdly notices that some enemies that I killed, whom also had that new stupid arrow-debuff icon on their heads, keep that weird debuff from despawning
- Resulting in my Minimap being cluttered with "Fake" or "Shadow" enemies, that are physically and corporeally not there. 
- Me resulting into "diving into a crowd of enemies" only to be met with, well, nothing actually being there. 

Image of said incident: https://imgur.com/gallery/9WTVdPC

Hope this gets looked into and fixed ASAP, because we know how spaghetti code holds up our minimaps as is already, and we don't need something like this messing it up even further. 

Can confirm, Ghost Enemy Markers exist and they Can and Will Hurt you. Don't you love going back to the same "Definitely real group of enemies that surely absolutely exists" again and again after the True and Real enemies have been deleted? Don't you enjoy wasting your ammo, pre-shooting when turning around a corner, only to be met with crickets?

It is extra annoying for people that use Overlay Map, since we can see ALL the Ghost markers All the Time. Combined with the Random Waypoint Marker Getting Stuck on your screen with No Way to remove it, and you get a very nice soup of visual clutter sewage. Get your shift together and fix these problems DE!

 From what I have personally seen, it happens often when enemies die from things that "Spread" damage like Melee Influence or Incarnon weapons with bouncy bullets. Not sure about abilities, but if I'm right the New Nezha augment should do it too... maybe .. who knows anymore 🤷‍♀️

[TeaCrazy]

Looks great so far tho I still have a problem with overguard on peaceful provocate on day form breaking the charge up
 

[Daiphelion]

18 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Line of Sight (LoS) Changes & Fixes

As mentioned in our last Hotfix 35.5.6, the team continues to address and assess player reports of further LoS issues. While the quality and consistency of LoS checks has improved significantly, we're still not 100% satisfied and sometimes the results are still unpredictable. The team is investigating LoS checks at large occasionally having odd interactions with terrain, enemies, etc. which is causing inconsistencies in the checks. We are looking to have this resolved in the next Cert update (more info on what that means here). 

For today, we have made LoS improvements to the following Warframe abilities:  

• Caliban’s Sentient Wrath (Rendered Check) 
  • In addition to rendered checking, we’ve also made improvements to address issues where LoS checks would fail on clearly visible enemies that are behind terrain. 

 

The issue with LOS checks on Caliban has _nothing at all_ to do with Sentients Wrath.  Sentients Wrath has been extensively tested by the community and doesn't even _have_ any LOS checks. 
The LOS check which requires adjustment on Caliban is Fusion Strike, which as I write this, is still not applying the pull or damage properly to targets even slightly obscured from its focal point.  Fortunately the Defence strip AoE zone still functions properly. 

[Mr.Holyroller]

4 hours ago, Stormandreas said:

The vast majority don't like the randomized loadouts however.

Would love to see proof of that.
 

[Levanthan]

The Qorvex Disometric Guard charge loss every 5 seconds from an invis status proc bug is back again. What's constantly applying an invis slow to him? Is it tied to his lowered base movespeed?

[[DE]Momaw]

3 hours ago, Grimm said:

don't forget that fireblast is also a LOS check and fails on rag dolled enemies (it also rag dolls enemies).

Seems to work here? Do you have a better way to demonstrate problem?

 

[captn_Pat]

Could you please fix the (intended) bug where Dante gets way less kpm than Loki with a dagger? (tested a lot in solo survival steelpath) I feel the constant spamming of abilties should be a bit more effective than a frame that doesnt exactly focus on damage (or anything besides survival and memes) just pressing e and walking forwards.

Revert LOS changes on Dante please.

[AxelFlussbach]

11 hours ago, Merrcenary said:

🤦‍♂️just remove unowned weapons from the pool

This would encourage players to sell their mediocre weapons.

I'd rather see

• One of the categories contains at least one weapon that you own
• running with an empty equipment slot counts as fulfilling the restriction

You have to equip at least one weapon (can't play with no weapons), therefore there should always be a weapon you can equip at all times without restricting you from getting the full reward.

If you don't own any of the weapons of a category and you don't consider one of the weapons worth getting, the weapons probably would be of no help in the game mode anyways, no matter how you mod them. What's the point of telling a player they have to equip a weapon that they will never switch to, that they'll just carry around for show? Just make it so players can run an empty equipment slot instead.

 

 

[moondog548]

11 minutes ago, AxelFlussbach said:

This would encourage players to sell their mediocre weapons.

I'd rather see

• One of the categories contains at least one weapon that you own
• running with an empty equipment slot counts as fulfilling the restriction

You have to equip at least one weapon (can't play with no weapons), therefore there should always be a weapon you can equip at all times without restricting you from getting the full reward.

If you don't own any of the weapons of a category and you don't consider one of the weapons worth getting, the weapons probably would be of no help in the game mode anyways, no matter how you mod them. What's the point of telling a player they have to equip a weapon that they will never switch to, that they'll just carry around for show? Just make it so players can run an empty equipment slot instead.

 

 

Very clever suggestion

[NeDesitVirtus]

14 hours ago, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

Huh. That's not a new bug, necessarily, but I've only previously encountered it when trying to trade Coolant Leak (that mod is notorious for this specific issue). It's supposed to keep you from trading away irreplaceable precept mods or ones you only have a single copy of. If you have multiple copies, you should be able to trade it though I'm not sure if that "fix" would apply here.

Deleted

Edited April 18 by NeDesitVirtus
No longer relevant.

[sh0shin]

20 hours ago, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

You have to hover over magazine stat, but I agree the old version was better for seeing what mods did at a glance. Having to hover over a stat to see improvements/changes is pretty awful.

I miss seeing an actual Accuracy stat as well. The change felt unnecessarily dumbed-down and legitimately annoying to check Reload Speed, which is an actual, quantifiable stat, but whatever. Appealing to children does get video game companies more money.

1 hour ago, AxelFlussbach said:

This would encourage players to sell their mediocre weapons.

I'd rather see

• One of the categories contains at least one weapon that you own
• running with an empty equipment slot counts as fulfilling the restriction

You have to equip at least one weapon (can't play with no weapons), therefore there should always be a weapon you can equip at all times without restricting you from getting the full reward.

If you don't own any of the weapons of a category and you don't consider one of the weapons worth getting, the weapons probably would be of no help in the game mode anyways, no matter how you mod them. What's the point of telling a player they have to equip a weapon that they will never switch to, that they'll just carry around for show? Just make it so players can run an empty equipment slot instead.

 

 

Again, it seems like they've gotten it right before with Sorties and Arbis and Archons, offering *bonuses* for a very small pool and otherwise not punishing you for playing.

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, AxelFlussbach said:

I'd rather see

• One of the categories contains at least one weapon that you own
• running with an empty equipment slot counts as fulfilling the restriction

Empty slot counting is a fantastic idea.    Guaranteeing ownership of at least one weapon still incentivizes gaming the system in a way I'd guess DE doesn't want after witnessing the extreme measures players used in reaction to Duviri.

It seems like they should import Duviri's loaner system, as has been pointed out several times.  (Although ideally I'd like to see some improvements to the modding on these.)

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

5 hours ago, Karyst said:

Crazy to believe that new player should have a shot at end game content

If they've completed Whispers in the Walls and ranked up the Caviar (lol), they are at the endgame content. Per my previous email, most players are not LR4 with all weapons purchased, forma'd, and riven'd up. If they've completed the requirements necessary to unlock DA and EDA, then that's it. There shouldn't be a hall monitor stopping players to check if their credit card has been charged sufficiently to play.

RNG loadouts are bad as implemented in EDA. They punish you for getting unlucky and rolling a set of crappy weapons, and then punish you harder for not keeping that terrible MR fodder weapon you sold five years ago after playing with it and hating it. They punish players for not spending thousands of platinum on slots, forma, catalysts maintaining an inventory of weapons and frames they dislike or are useless. What possible benefit is there to keeping the Dual Zoren? The Bolto? The Stug? Some players may fall in love with those weapons, and that's great! Good for them! But it is very common to sell/scrap terrible weapons because weapons slots are a valuable resource depending on where you are in your Warframe journey. They can only be bought, or received in limited amounts from events like Nightwave or the anniversary missions.

And even if you DO keep all of your weapons, you can still get screwed, through no fault of your own, if RNG decides you used up your luck getting that rare prime part or mod drop. Because like it or not, a lot of weapons in Warframe suck. They're statistically insufficient to perform at the level of EDA, no matter how hard you try to make them work. And even if somehow the Stug could be made viable, are you seriously expecting the 95% of players who haven't made it to MR18 to invest a full suite of forma on every crap weapon in the game? That's hundreds, or even thousands of dollars of investment into what for most people is a leisure activity, not a full time job.

Circuit and Duviri sidestepped this issue and even encouraged trying out new weapons and frames by providing players with loaner builds. It gave players the opportunity to find new frames and weapons they enjoyed, without having to pay money or time to grind it out or buy slots for it. Now, rather than investing time and energy into a weapons a player ended up disliking the minute the foundry was done with it, we could find a weapon, try it out, and decide that was what we wanted to grind for next. It didn't lock players out because they hadn't spent sufficient money or had bad luck.

Previously, players would finish the base game, see the challenge that was Arbitrations and The Steel Path, and rise to meet it. Because they could play with whatever they wanted, and adapt accordingly. Now, thanks to EDA, they'll finish the last quest and run face first into the brick wall of RNG. There's no skill involved or necessary, and it might as well be another MR lock in practice.

5 hours ago, Karyst said:

it's you who continues to talk nonsense and at the same time deny human nature in one post about Dante but support the human nature in this post. Truly a waste of time with someone who thinks they are good at trolling.

For God's sake, man, what are you talking about?  I've been clear as I can be discussing this stuff, and you're the one going on about human nature and trolling, which is why I dislike trying to communicate with you. You either ignore what I say entirely while injecting yourself into the conversation or focus on minutiae while avoiding the broader points being made.

And through all this you're making sweeping statements about interns and CEOs and how I'm unnaturally defying human nature by asking for balance and design decisions that are not actively hostile to people who aren't afflicted with a pathological need to hoard random crap. It's not that hard, I promise. Just read what I wrote, and recognize that just because someone disagrees with you they're not a troll. People can have reasonable disagreements about the state of the game. I am begging you. Just read and respond without trying to write Nietzsche's next book on the philosophy of the human condition on a Canadian video gaming forum.

Edited April 18 by Armadillidium_vulgare

[Halo]

On 2024-04-17 at 9:00 PM, [DE]Megan said:

Hydroid’s Plunder (Rendered Check) 

• In addition to rendered checking, it is also no longer FOV dependent to prevent issues where low FOV settings would cause Hydroid’s body to obstruct LoS.

 

Addition where addition is needed, thanks for making Hydroid feel worse to use now. 

Example: Group of enemies is behind me, nothing in front of me, I have max range, I use plunder, nothing happens

Why bother with range anymore with a lot of these abilities if the RANGE required to use them DOES NOT AFFECT THE RADIUS OF THE ABILITY ANYMORE. 

From my perspective, I think DE should fully re-word every ability you're touching to only say that it requires to work in front of you and in pure visibility of your damn camera, because this is what you're essentially forcing all players to do. Hotfix it in for everything in their tool tips, because it's kind of misleading not to have them being specified in the game now, and making people either read it here in your hotfix notes or on the wiki. 

I'm in the same room as an multiple enemies, some behind me, two in pure visibility in front of me, and a few more physically in-front of me but obstructed by objects and cannot be visibly seen. If I were to use Plunder in this situation, the two enemies in visibility will only be hit, and none of the enemies behind me, and not the ones obstructed by objects (pillars, large rocks, etc etc.). 

I'm well aware Plunder already had a check of enemies at least being in front of me, but the rendered check now is just infuriating, ESPECIALLY IN THE ARCHEMEDIA TILESETS...

Honestly, at this point nothing will phase me. Make Miasma, Avalanche, Desecrate, Mallet, Mend & Maim, Breach Surge, Fangs of Raksh, Collective Curse, Gloom, Discharge, Polarize, and everything else all check for LoS, because this is the path you're going down if you continue to touch abilities with this vile addition. 

Ruin everything you've made to force your agenda. Range means nothing now for these abilities you've given LoS to, and that is a true shame. 

"Oh, but some of the abilities you listed would be stupid to lock to LoS or Camera Vision" ... That's my point, and they'll 100% ----ing do it, somehow, some way. 

It's not just Hydroid, but Ember doesn't feel right now, as well as Mag. Still need to play around more with Garuda 

Not to beat a dying kaithe or anything, but you're still not listening to your community in regards to LoS as a whole, so thanks for at least acknowledging us via ignoring us entirely. Silence speaks louder than words. 

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

7 minutes ago, Halo said:

From my perspective, and for your safety going forward DE, fully re-word every ability you're touching to only say that it requires to work in front of you and in pure visibility of your damn camera,  

Emphasis mine, but what the actual F$#&? Are we really at the point of menacing devs now? Seriously?

Edited April 18 by Armadillidium_vulgare

[Halo]

22 minutes ago, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

Emphasis mine, but what the actual F$#&? Are we really at the point of menacing devs now? Seriously?

Please refer to Hotfix 35.5.3 and 35.5.4, if you'd like to see a score of people, not just me, complaining about LoS as a whole. Extremely hard to miss the ongoing issue. 
 

Oh yeah, also the last hotfix prep with everyone speaking their mind: 

 

Edited April 18 by Halo
Additions

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

5 minutes ago, Halo said:

Please refer to Hotfix 35.5.3 and 35.5.4, if you'd like to see a score of people, not just me, complaining about LoS as a whole. Extremely hard to miss the ongoing issue.

Implying their safety is on the line is f@#$&ed. It's an online game, for Christ's sake. Threatening people because they made a change you don't like is messed up. I can't believe that even needs to be said, it's so insane. Jesus. When did we get to the point of being comparable to League players?

[Halo]

2 minutes ago, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

Implying their safety is on the line is f@#$&ed. It's an online game, for Christ's sake. Threatening people because they made a change you don't like is messed up. I can't believe that even needs to be said, it's so insane. Jesus. When did we get to the point of being comparable to League players?

You want misleading ability descriptions? Because that's what I was implying, for them to fix the descriptions. It will confuse people going forward without such being stated up front. 

You're turning this into something it isn't. 

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

Just now, Halo said:

You want misleading ability descriptions? Because that's what I was implying, for them to fix the descriptions. It will confuse people going forward without such being stated up front. 

You're turning this into something it isn't. 

I'm not the one implying they might be unsafe as a result of this. Seriously, how the hell else are people supposed to take that? Oh, right, you're not the one doing the threatening, you're just passing along the implication of violence. Great, that's so much better.

[Halo]

1 minute ago, Armadillidium_vulgare said:

I'm not the one implying they might be unsafe as a result of this. Seriously, how the hell else are people supposed to take that? Oh, right, you're not the one doing the threatening, you're just passing along the implication of violence. Great, that's so much better.

My implication is of bad PR and community backlash, which DE has been receiving for the past few weeks because of this issue, and it only being elongated due to there not being full transparency about the LoS checks they're implementing. This is why a test server would be a better idea. 

You're the one trying to put words in my mouth about violence. Chill out. 

[Armadillidium_vulgare]

17 minutes ago, Halo said:

My implication is of bad PR and community backlash,

Quote

 and for your safety going forward DE

Definitely talking about bad PR and community backlash, here. Not sure what those have to do with safety risks, but sure, I'll take your word for it.

Quote

You're the one trying to put words in my mouth about violence

Might be smart to be more careful with your wording so people don't misunderstand. Words have meaning, after all.

Seriously, that's not the kind of stuff to joke about or imply, considering they've gotten death threats before.

Edited April 18 by Armadillidium_vulgare

[Hodor_Roe]

hoo boy, here's a crazy idea, just remove Line of Sight

 

[iSkylines]

Secondary Outburst is still bugged DE please Fix I have reported two patches ago and no one has noticed...

 

[Angelswing]

Is it possible to reverse the changes made to Vaubans Bastille/Vortex tap/hold cast function? It's not possible to use multiple bastilles with inversed keybinds since the changes because holding the button collapse the current Bastille into a Vortex instead of casting a new one (this is possible with "standard" tap/hold but that option makes Minelayer next to unusable).

[Karyst]

4 hours ago, Halo said:

Addition where addition is needed, thanks for making Hydroid feel worse to use now. 

Example: Group of enemies is behind me, nothing in front of me, I have max range, I use plunder, nothing happens

Why bother with range anymore with a lot of these abilities if the RANGE required to use them DOES NOT AFFECT THE RADIUS OF THE ABILITY ANYMORE. 

From my perspective, and for your safety going forward DE, fully re-word every ability you're touching to only say that it requires to work in front of you and in pure visibility of your damn camera, because this is what you're essentially forcing all players to do. Hotfix it in for everything in their tool tips, because it's kind of misleading not to have them being specified in the game now, and making people either read it here in your hotfix notes or on the wiki. 

I'm in the same room as an multiple enemies, some behind me, two in pure visibility in front of me, and a few more physically in-front of me but obstructed by objects and cannot be visibly seen. If I were to use Plunder in this situation, the two enemies in visibility will only be hit, and none of the enemies behind me, and not the ones obstructed by objects (pillars, large rocks, etc etc.). 

I'm well aware Plunder already had a check of enemies at least being in front of me, but the rendered check now is just infuriating, ESPECIALLY IN THE ARCHEMEDIA TILESETS...

Honestly, at this point nothing will phase me. Make Miasma, Avalanche, Desecrate, Mallet, Mend & Maim, Breach Surge, Fangs of Raksh, Collective Curse, Gloom, Discharge, Polarize, and everything else all check for LoS, because this is the path you're going down if you continue to touch abilities with this vile addition. 

Ruin everything you've made to force your agenda. Range means nothing now for these abilities you've given LoS to, and that is a true shame. 

"Oh, but some of the abilities you listed would be stupid to lock to LoS or Camera Vision" ... That's my point, and they'll 100% ----ing do it, somehow, some way. 

It's not just Hydroid, but Ember doesn't feel right now, as well as Mag. Still need to play around more with Garuda 

Not to beat a dying kaithe or anything, but you're still not listening to your community in regards to LoS as a whole, so thanks for at least acknowledging us via ignoring us entirely. Silence speaks louder than words. 

Oh the Los is coming, there are only two questions going forward now, what exactly initiated the mass application of Los and can we craft enough Dante Specters to play the game for us?

 

4 hours ago, Halo said:

Please refer to Hotfix 35.5.3 and 35.5.4, if you'd like to see a score of people, not just me, complaining about LoS as a whole. Extremely hard to miss the ongoing issue. 
 

Oh yeah, also the last hotfix prep with everyone speaking their mind: 

 

I tell you now, they don't care. They think that Los is good for balancing while we know that Los ruins gameplay. But at least we have Darkwing Titania now, which is nice.

4 hours ago, Halo said:

You want misleading ability descriptions? Because that's what I was implying, for them to fix the descriptions. It will confuse people going forward without such being stated up front. 

You're turning this into something it isn't. 

He did the same thing in previous update patch forum, didn't get away with it there either.

 

3 hours ago, Halo said:

My implication is of bad PR and community backlash, which DE has been receiving for the past few weeks because of this issue, and it only being elongated due to there not being full transparency about the LoS checks they're implementing. This is why a test server would be a better idea. 

You're the one trying to put words in my mouth about violence. Chill out. 

He's been doing the same thing with me and others in previous posts, will have to make a report perhaps.