Steam Forums and Pride Month

[Voltage]

10 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

"you just haven't met the right guy yet"

"but how are you going to have kids then"

"which one of you is the man in the relationship"

"that's a sinful lifestyle, you need a man"

"oh you have a girlfriend? that doesn't bother me, we can still date"

"oh you have a girlfriend? let's have a th..."

Yeah, there are definitely many cliché and/or stereotypical comments that get tossed around friend groups and dinner tables rooted in an obsolete era on many different topics. It happens with this topic, college/university, masculinity, and all sorts of other things. That's just how it is.

Edited June 8 by Voltage

[L3512]

10 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

My humble opinion? Join a Pride parade, because a lot of LGBQT+ people will be extra impressed that you, a straight CIS person, is there to support other people out of compassion and empathy, and solidarity, and even if you are either straight, or CIS or straight and CIS, they'll generally want to recognise and respect you too.

If you are doing something to impress people or seek validation, you should probably rethink what you are doing and why.

 

8 hours ago, vixenpixel said:

I hope this horrible trend is a last gasp effort before the tide of equality washes over the world.

So earlier in this thread someone brought up nazi book burning, now during the Weimar republic, Berlin was probably more openly sexually progressive than most countries or cities today. Between hyperinflation in the early 20's, the Depression in the 30's and the nazis, communists, social democrat and nationalists parties undermining the government for their own political gains things went south at a rapid pace.

Point is, progress isn't some one and done checklist and nothing is set in stone. The German communists were just as much to blame as the nazis for the political situation that lead to the raise of Hitler, they just lost.

Edited June 8 by L3512

[vixenpixel]

53 minutes ago, L3512 said:

 

So earlier in this thread someone brought up nazi book burning, now during the Weimar republic, Berlin was probably more openly sexually progressive than most countries or cities today. Between hyperinflation in the early 20's, the Depression in the 30's and the nazis, communists, social democrat and nationalists parties undermining the government for their own political gains things went south at a rapid pace.

Point is, progress isn't some one and done checklist and nothing is set in stone. The German communists were just as much to blame as the nazis or the political situation that lead to the raise of Hitler, they just lost.

Uh... Thanks for the history lesson, I guess. O.o

[Xylena_Lazarow]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

Yeah, there are definitely many cliché and/or stereotypical comments that get tossed around friend groups and dinner tables rooted in an obsolete era on many different topics. It happens with this topic, college/university, masculinity, and all sorts of other things. That's just how it is.

Huh? I'm not involved in any of that stuff, I replied to this thread because I'm 40 and straight folks have 100% been pushing straightness into to my face IRL, saying the things I posted, over and over my whole life. Some exactly like that, some paraphrased. Family members, peers, mostly it's random straight dudes trying to hit on me.

[Voltage]

7 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Huh? I'm not involved in any of that stuff, I replied to this thread because I'm 40 and straight folks have 100% been pushing straightness into to my face IRL, saying the things I posted, over and over my whole life. Some exactly like that, some paraphrased. Family members, peers, mostly it's random straight dudes trying to hit on me.

My point was a neutral comment looking at where the comments you receive come from, as well as the ones @Prexades stated. The underlying nature of both of those is what I said, that's all.

It's unproductive to fragment the general population on topics like this with language that divides people based on literally anything. It's such a waste of time to get worked up about this, as we live in a selfish culture where nobody really cares about you as an individual anyways (for the most part).

There are only two types of people in this world. Good people, and pieces of S#&$. Nothing else matters. 

[Xylena_Lazarow]

34 minutes ago, Voltage said:

It's unproductive to fragment the general population on topics like this with language that divides people based on literally anything. It's such a waste of time to get worked up about this, as we live in a selfish culture where nobody really cares about you as an individual anyways (for the most part).

I'm stating things that have happened to me IRL, I'm sorry if stating what happens in the real world to real gay people is "divisive" to you. Maybe it's time you guys be less worked up over gay pride, and more worked up over all the nazi pride parades happening in the USA without consequence.

[Caerith]

Nazis are hardly new to the US.  They've been out and proud since at least the 1930s.  If you look back through the newspapers of the time you can find plenty of articles talking up their boy in Germany and downplaying his antisemitic rhetoric, and Nazis were so accepted that they famously had a massive rally in Madison Square Garden in 1939. 

After WWII, Nazis enjoyed protected status through the decades.  For example, there's the infamous 1977 "Skokie Affair" where the courts ruled that Nazis can have Nazi pride parades dressed in full Nazi regalia and displaying Nazi symbols including the swastika through neighborhoods populated mostly by Holocaust survivors. 

Obviously things got worse after the US elected a white supremacist to the Presidency.  And since this thread is about Pride, let's not forget the harm that President caused the gay community.  Because-- and I know this is a controversial take-- Nazis are bad for everyone.

[Prexades]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb Caerith:

Nazis are hardly new to the US.  They've been out and proud since at least the 1930s.  If you look back through the newspapers of the time you can find plenty of articles talking up their boy in Germany and downplaying his antisemitic rhetoric, and Nazis were so accepted that they famously had a massive rally in Madison Square Garden in 1939. 

After WWII, Nazis enjoyed protected status through the decades.  For example, there's the infamous 1977 "Skokie Affair" where the courts ruled that Nazis can have Nazi pride parades dressed in full Nazi regalia and displaying Nazi symbols including the swastika through neighborhoods populated mostly by Holocaust survivors. 

Obviously things got worse after the US elected a white supremacist to the Presidency.  And since this thread is about Pride, let's not forget the harm that President caused the gay community.  Because-- and I know this is a controversial take-- Nazis are bad for everyone.

No doubt he was a terrible president and would be worse if re elected. Just keep in mind that a lot of gays still support him for a variety of reasons. Even among the leadership of the Nazi party were gays. For example Ernst Röhm, leading the SA troopers of the Nazi party.

There are good people and bad people out there. Just because someone has the same sexual preferences or skin colour or whatever does not mean they are automatically on your side as well.

[SneakyErvin]

21 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

I personally don't know much about Greta Thunberg, my apologies, to say much about that. 

I would say though, that there are many many science advocators, science communicators, science entertainers and science popularisers, whose contributions to science, the sciences have been massive, valuable and instrumental. Whilst they may not have worked directly in the respective field itself more directly, or maybe they did but their contribution was relatively small and humble, their ability to highlight, bring awareness, and communicate such issues and ideas, would be significant, even if potentially hard to quantify or measure. Like and from Isaac Asimov, Douglas Adams Carl Sagan, Bill Bryson, Arthur C. Clarke, Richard Feynman, Bill Nye, Brian Cox, Richard Dawkins to Neil deGrasse Tyson, Michio Kaku, Stephen Jay Gould, Jamie Hyneman/Adam Savage (Mythbusters), Steve Irwin, Hank Green, Julia Galef. 

A lot of those names are scientists or involved in science, and some of their direct contributions are bigger than others, and some of those names are just authors, writers, or television or internet personalities, but... many of them have inspired and fostered and nurtured the fascination, appreciation and desire to know and do science in many many many people. Like some of the people I named, ehh, personally think they are a bit overrated and or have some disagreeable opinions, or I think their knowledge on some topics are lacking, some I think are underrated, some I think have good books, some I think have average books... but I would be weary of downplaying their contributions just because they might have been more on the awareness side of science as opposed to first hand personal contributions (though you obviously have your bests like Feyman and Sagan who did a lot of both). 

She's a very odd person to say the least. She complains that things arent getting done but she provides very little when it comes to ideas. Unlike the people you mention that come up with ideas and theories etc. And I think if she actually decided to get a higher education and stop acting like an angsty teen she might be able to make a difference and actually formulate what it is she thinks need to be done while also helping it get done. Right now she is like the forum users going "WF broken, plez fix!" or "I want endgaeme!!11!!!eleven!!!!one!". The moment she went with the "Bla, bla, bla" statement when having the honor to speak at the UN I lost the last little drop of respect I had for her.

21 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Those people aren't that big an issue to me, as when strictly speaking you have BP, as in multi billion dollar company spending large amounts of money to Ogilvy (owned by WPP plc) a large and notable  advertising, marketing, and public relations agency to popularise the idea of "carbon footprints" to essentially attempt to shift responsibility and therefore blame on to the random everyday individual and further away from their contribution, which is disproportionately massive. Fossil fuel and oil companies routinely studied and reported to have incredibly large contributions to global emissions (the exact figures and percentages can vary depending on which study or research, but the main simple point being they as companies release a whole lot of carbon pollution and often try to avoid responsibility and accountability, and have the money and influence to try and blame others. 

So on the scale of what needs to be focused on the most, some random people protesting and being a disruption is on the lower end, then a bit higher you get your Superbowl celebrities, who fly lots of places but don't actually do much to offset their "carbon footprint" and then way way more importantly and the actual biggest problem creators you have like a certain specific 100 companies who collectively responsible for like the heavy majority of GHG emissions. 

Oh indeed. I'm just saying there are too many uneducated people doing so much stupid stuff that do the opposite of helping the situation they think they are helping. Since they saw in some old documentary or read in a book about people doing some type of demonstration in the past for something and think it is a good approach to apply it to their cause aswell. I mean, sitting on the highways and freeways in the US when the idea was to raise awareness of black communities being mistreated at the time (50s and 60s or so) was surely a great idea. But applying that to a environmental awareness cause just makes you look completely detached to reality and what it is you try to raise awareness for.

Yeah I think those celebrities are complete tools, since I figure you are talking about those that claim they are doing their part for the environment etc. Otherwise they can do what they want if they personally dont claim to support the environment. It's also why I actually do give some thumbs up for the "local" politicians here, where most actually try to utilize the trains instead of flying, both when they travel within the country and back and forth to places within the EU. Since they arent total hypocrites atleast.

21 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

I somewhat agree. Just also that a lot of people lack the education, power, knowledge, understanding, time, influence, social or general connections, wealth, money or impunity to do much. Like some people may have some of those things, but its rare they have all of those things, and often if they have all of those things, its because they have a favourable socioeconomic background, were relatively fortunate or lucky, are or are a bit sociopathic, just a little, enough to not stand out too much, wearing a nice suit and tie, and usually they won't have the empathy or compassion to want to do anything, when they can instead grow power and influence. 

Change can often take time, especially good change for a lot of people, and even longer for everyone. Takes time for even good science to start being pop science, before even the most anti-scientific people in society eventually come around too. Like there is so much stuff that we figured out decades ago, that still are being argued about online. 

Yep, the lacking "toolkit" is a big issue. And I think the major impact is with the people that have the education and knowledge but lack the connections to get into a more important spot within the field. So need to get there slowly overtime as they make a name for themselves from the bottom tier.

Well. We are in the year 2024 and we still have people that claim the earth is flat aswell. So even if someone isnt that stubborn, accepting more recent science can be hard if tainted by political color, greed, friends on fluggy clouds or a combination of them.

It's one of those things I dont understand with people, why they put themselves in to so very specific categories that allow such little free thinking. Which also often ends up with people not seeing the negative parts from their side, and see everyone that gives criticsism to individual parts of what they believe in as those people being against the sum and not just the part. Like I pointed out early in this thread that I didnt like a certain part of something, at which point another poster ignored practically everything else that was written and more or less saw it as me disliking it all and not just the specific parts I pointed out. And it is dangerous when the idea of perfection and infallibility becomes a thing in the minds of supporters of something.

21 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

In some ways I am the same, but in other ways I think its a matter of context. I think homelessness is a sad and unfortunate reality, and I can't personally solve it, but I can volunteer and used to when I was younger. Same with some issues around mental health, domestic abuse. Can people become desensitised, especially to stuff like Climate Change? Yeah I think we can, and do, especially when there isn't much a lot of us can do by ourselves, but I try to put it in context as well. I won't let BP guilt trip me for not having a "carbon lite diet", I won't really blame people who have cars, because they need to work for a living, even though I personally walk most places, and to close food places, I will blame certain celebrities and wish many countries weren't so celebrity obsessed, but its a relativity things too. If I focus too much on the bad, I won't have enough energy to help some people closer by, who might benefit a lot from a bit of help. 

I don't plan on having children either heh, already had to raise some children that weren't mine, I'm good! At most I might adopt if i have a partner who really wants that experience. I'll try and argue we should adopt a shelter cat or dog instead though probably. 

Cheers! 

Yeah, same here. I dont mind doing something that changes/improves the now for someone, I just cant be bothered about what happens in a future I wont be part of. I might be a compeltely selfish A******, but in that case I'm proud to be. I think it is more important that people are able to live the life they've been given, where I might be able to help make that possible if needed, instead of spending my time on a "maybe" for the future that does nothing for the people in the now.

Big 👍 for cat adoption. We should help those little gods and devils as much as we can.

22 hours ago, Zimzala said:

Happens all the time. Even in the Fantasy Fest parade in Key West ( a gay mecca ) there are as many if not more hetero people pushing their sexual practices. Look at most all movies, plays, porn, and the very people here thinking they are being discriminated against because someone else wants to be who they are.

I'm just curious, how are "most all movies" pushing any real sexual practices? Most movies tend to leave it at the doorstep and not really care. Other movies tend to make the choice based on what attracts most viewers since productions cost. If you go by population, the amount of movies released for a specific sexual preference audience go pretty much hand in hand with the population spread aswell, if you consider every movie made that doesnt include non-hetero relations as hetero pushing that is. If you just compare movies where relationships are a focus of the movies, then the non-hetero part grown in comparison to the actual population.

And I'm really shocked by the mindbending idea of porn. Should they force hetero people into non-hetero scenes? Since they cant really make movies unless there are actors that are into it, since we arent talking fake scenes like we do when talking regular movies. This wouldnt be Brokeback Mountain.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

22 hours ago, Prexades said:

You are not being oppressed when people tell you that a month long parade is too much.

The oppression happened at different times in their life. The parade is to celebrate still being alive since friends of ours aren't here due to murder and suicide due to bullying from the people tired of seeing parades.

I've had coworkers play a "prank" on me by literally making a noose from scratch and trying to put it around my head.

They didn't get in real trouble and I had to continue working with them. 

And I have plenty more examples if you need them. 

So, at the end of the day....if you want to stop seeing parades, then magically stop bullying.

As long as people keep not leaving us alone, you will continue to see parades and you'll deal with it.

 

 

[SneakyErvin]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The oppression happened at different times in their life. The parade is to celebrate still being alive since friends of ours aren't here due to murder and suicide due to bullying from the people tired of seeing parades.

I've had coworkers play a "prank" on me by literally making a noose from scratch and trying to put it around my head.

They didn't get in real trouble and I had to continue working with them. 

And I have plenty more examples if you need them. 

So, at the end of the day....if you want to stop seeing parades, then magically stop bullying.

As long as people keep not leaving us alone, you will continue to see parades and you'll deal with it.

Kinda missing his point. Why have a month long parade is what he is asking, not why there is a parade at all.

And on the scale of things, it is rather absurd to have a month long celebration with parades when there is far more widespread prejudice and persecution that goes by nearly unnoticed at the same time. Things that may have a single day dedicated to it, or none at all.

edit: We likely dont have enough months in a year to give everyone suffering prejudice and persecution equal attention if a month should be dedicated to it.

Edited June 8 by SneakyErvin

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

33 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Kinda missing his point. Why have a month long parade is what he is asking, not why there is a parade at all.

And on the scale of things, it is rather absurd to have a month long celebration with parades when there is far more widespread prejudice and persecution that goes by nearly unnoticed at the same time. Things that may have a single day dedicated to it, or none at all.

edit: We likely dont have enough months in a year to give everyone suffering prejudice and persecution equal attention if a month should be dedicated to it.

Because they can. Same reason why people can bully, or have an Irish Parade.

There's no big mystery or long debate needed. 

If they have the resources, they will be used. 

I'd love for the Irish to have a month long parade, but maybe they need funding...you'd have to ask your local organizations.

Edit: Everyone has different "scales". We're using our own scales.

Edited June 8 by (PSN)Madurai-Prime

[Joylesstuna]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

The oppression happened at different times in their life. The parade is to celebrate still being alive since friends of ours aren't here due to murder and suicide due to bullying from the people tired of seeing parades.

I've had coworkers play a "prank" on me by literally making a noose from scratch and trying to put it around my head.

They didn't get in real trouble and I had to continue working with them. 

And I have plenty more examples if you need them. 

So, at the end of the day....if you want to stop seeing parades, then magically stop bullying.

As long as people keep not leaving us alone, you will continue to see parades and you'll deal with it.

 

 

That's awful and I'm really sorry to hear that. People are cruel.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

14 hours ago, L3512 said:

If you are doing something to impress people or seek validation, you should probably rethink what you are doing and why.

 

If you want to frame it that way, sure, but that calls into question why someone desires a Straight Pride parade to begin with, which is what I was addressing. Then we also start getting into the idea of people as seperate entities and ones self, and the nature of validation as a generally neutral concept or as an insult or derogative.

If someone works in a field, with peers they have mutual respect for, the field often requires cooperation, reliance on others, and an individual contributes significantly to the field, is having that work validated by others not just a relatively mundane and neutral if not positive exchange?

If a high schooler with trauma, has a lot of internal conflict and pressure about them, is struggling with maintaining healthy relationships with others, starts hanging out with people who may give them a type of validation, but in exchange also abuses them and uses them, but they hang on for the validation they are getting, is that not a more negative and destructive situation, where your advice is much more pressing and relevant? 

Since of course, ideally, it should be such that people have better and more internal reasons, motivations, desires in doing things, but also ideally, people should probably generally rethink (be critically minded, and a bit skeptical, discerning as habit), by default, let alone over matters of validation, self validation. In lieu of that, someone wanting or needing to attend a Straight Pride event, will probably still be better off attending a Pride Pride event, because depending on what part of the world you are talking about, a lot of Straight Pride events aren't actually about a sincere celebration, but usually more of a spite thing, and counter culture to other types of events, cultures, parades, and a naive young person looking for validation will probably end up with an objectively worse crowd. Actual Pride apart from actually being genuine and not about spite, usually has some pretty chill, friendly and accepting people. Granted some can be defensive, but usually its a sincerity/intentions thing. 

Which is like many things, but especially gang influences, (bad, good, neutral) because turns out, young impressionable teenagers, who might struggle for different reasons, are the types that aren't necessarily the best at self reflection and rethinking what they do. So then its a bit like skinheads and the development of different sects, different attitudes, ideals, throughout the UK in the 60's, 70's, 80's and beyond. At times, it was about working class solidarity, social alienation, ska, reggae, blues, and inclusive of people with different skin tones, from different countries, immigrants, but also had splinter groups that were more about Nationalism, Patriotism, anti-immigration, racial purity and Neo Nazism. 

So its a bit like, which path do you want a young bullied, poor kid to go down, which makes me think of This Is England. Do you want him to end up like Combo? Who is sometimes friendly, supportive, and a bit like an older brother, but might snap and violently beat one of your friends because they have a lot of issues around identity, race, class, patriotism, or more like Woody? Or even better, forge his own path ahead. Ideally, yeah he should rethink a lot of his behaviour, decisions, attitudes and circumstance, but ideally his life would have started off better, he wouldn't have been bullied as much, he might have had supportive parents or influences in his life. 

So in short I agree, but also all of above. Personally, I am lucky, I got to experience the "ideal" a lot in my life, so I am well educated, pretty self reliant and confident, knowledgable, financially and socially independent, but with also decent support if I am ever made vulnerable for whatever reasons. Except I have also worked with plenty of people who haven't experienced the "ideal" as much, who are much more vulnerable, and may not always have the ability to think at their best, let alone avoid the potential manipulations of others. 

Great point to make as well, cheers! 

[Prexades]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb (PSN)Madurai-Prime:

The oppression happened at different times in their life. The parade is to celebrate still being alive since friends of ours aren't here due to murder and suicide due to bullying from the people tired of seeing parades.

I've had coworkers play a "prank" on me by literally making a noose from scratch and trying to put it around my head.

They didn't get in real trouble and I had to continue working with them. 

And I have plenty more examples if you need them. 

So, at the end of the day....if you want to stop seeing parades, then magically stop bullying.

As long as people keep not leaving us alone, you will continue to see parades and you'll deal with it.

 

 

Other people got murdered as well. Other injusticies happened. People die or decide to kill themselves who are not part of your group. No one but their closest friends and relatives even remembering them.  No parade for them either.

Careful you are not becoming the bully themselves. If you always see yourself as victim, then you are not too far away from becoming an oppressor.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

She's a very odd person to say the least. She complains that things arent getting done but she provides very little when it comes to ideas. Unlike the people you mention that come up with ideas and theories etc. And I think if she actually decided to get a higher education and stop acting like an angsty teen she might be able to make a difference and actually formulate what it is she thinks need to be done while also helping it get done. Right now she is like the forum users going "WF broken, plez fix!" or "I want endgaeme!!11!!!eleven!!!!one!". The moment she went with the "Bla, bla, bla" statement when having the honor to speak at the UN I lost the last little drop of respect I had for her.

 

I'll just take your word for it. They do sound lame. 

 

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Oh indeed. I'm just saying there are too many uneducated people doing so much stupid stuff that do the opposite of helping the situation they think they are helping. Since they saw in some old documentary or read in a book about people doing some type of demonstration in the past for something and think it is a good approach to apply it to their cause aswell. I mean, sitting on the highways and freeways in the US when the idea was to raise awareness of black communities being mistreated at the time (50s and 60s or so) was surely a great idea. But applying that to a environmental awareness cause just makes you look completely detached to reality and what it is you try to raise awareness for.

Yeah I think those celebrities are complete tools, since I figure you are talking about those that claim they are doing their part for the environment etc. Otherwise they can do what they want if they personally dont claim to support the environment. It's also why I actually do give some thumbs up for the "local" politicians here, where most actually try to utilize the trains instead of flying, both when they travel within the country and back and forth to places within the EU. Since they arent total hypocrites atleast.

 

I mean I agree, just that by definition, uneducated people are uneducated. There are a lot of people in this thread and life in general, that say things or have opinions, that should make anyone step back and think "It kind of sounds like you don't actually have the best or most thorough understanding on this topic" but then you can also sometimes be like "well yeah, thats just their opinion, not everyone can have the time or money to learn about everything to the same degree". Education in many places isn't easy or cheap or convenient. There are lots of topics I am very ignorant over but might want to share a humble opinion on. 

Sometimes certain people being uneducated is a part of the plan. Education quality can differ and vary. As can access to it. My life circumstances are pretty fortunate when it comes to education for example, but its also one of those things, I may not realise or understand until after as opposed to before. Certain countries have a pretty strong track record of wanting to mislead, misinform, and miseducate its people. So for me personally, it can be a bit hard to be too harsh on some of the people in those systems, when you could argue they are, somewhat victims of that cycle. Granted its also more complex and nuanced discussion and issue. 

Certain celebrities I am a little bit more harsh on, because they should have the time, money and access, and opportunity to be better and more knowledgable than most. Its just that many often pursue more money, fame and celebrity, and some influence and power. You could then argue that they may not have necessarily started with the best head start as well, which eh, that starts getting a bit more complex/nuanced as well. 

 

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

It's one of those things I dont understand with people, why they put themselves in to so very specific categories that allow such little free thinking. Which also often ends up with people not seeing the negative parts from their side, and see everyone that gives criticsism to individual parts of what they believe in as those people being against the sum and not just the part. Like I pointed out early in this thread that I didnt like a certain part of something, at which point another poster ignored practically everything else that was written and more or less saw it as me disliking it all and not just the specific parts I pointed out. And it is dangerous when the idea of perfection and infallibility becomes a thing in the minds of supporters of something.

 

Generally agree. Personally, I think its important when interacting with other people, or in discussions, to sort of remember to treat them like an actual human, and to not just try and disagree with one or two of their points. Its often important to talk to them about the stuff you do agree with them on, as well as potentially disagree, because then you actually may understand each other better, and also just have some basic respect towards them too. Its also okay to not agree with someone about every single thing. Differences of opinion are often fine and important. I can understand why someones it can happen though, sometimes people don't put out enough points for someone to find middle ground, sometimes people can be defensive because of bad past experiences and so just expect to argue aggressively because they think the other person is going to argue aggressively, they lack familiarity, or they just anticipate bad faith arguments from others and so just hone in on what they disagree with. 

Since I know you are pretty chill and good faith, and you talk with more nuance than many, I personally probably wouldn't just hone in on one of your points to just disagree with. Ideally, more conversations could be like that, but sadly online conversations can quickly become hostile arguments instead of conversations where some disagreement is fine but not necessarily mean that it can't also be a civil or chill conversation too. 

 

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yeah, same here. I dont mind doing something that changes/improves the now for someone, I just cant be bothered about what happens in a future I wont be part of. I might be a compeltely selfish A******, but in that case I'm proud to be. I think it is more important that people are able to live the life they've been given, where I might be able to help make that possible if needed, instead of spending my time on a "maybe" for the future that does nothing for the people in the now.

Big 👍 for cat adoption. We should help those little gods and devils as much as we can.

 

Yeah transparency helps a lot as well. Thats often another issue that leads to complications, the lack of and the ways people preemptively use deceit or even other people as collateral or proxy. 

Ha, glad you agree about looking after the small devils/gods. 

Random anecdote to share with you about cats. At my old home, I was feeling a bit sad about leaving it, because I use to look after some of the strays in my area. I was on friendly enough terms, that I could get some of them to accompany me so they could get neutered, vaccinated, released, (the sort of standard in my area, if they are feral at least, if they are disowned, domesticated etc its different) but most of the ones I was familiar with, were a bit too suspicious and weary around humans. I wasn't the only one in my neighbourhood who looked after them, but was a bit worried about some of the more antisocial types. 

Then one day I was in my yard, and the biggest cat I have ever seen walked up to me, and started being very affectionate. Also the cat only had 3 legs. Also my own cat warmed up to it a lot as well. It was short hair type, and well cared for, and definitely someones actual cat, based on how healthy and clean and large it was, but yeah. Very friendly, calm, giant three legged cat. All the other cats seem to respect it for its size, but I also took that as a sign that I probably had a neighbour who was good at looking after the strays as well. as their own cat (I imagine life is a bit tougher if you are big with only 3 legs). 

All the best to you, cheers! 

[carecaplatonico]

All the major companies are withdrawing support.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2024/06/05/companies-blasted-for-supporting-pride-last-year-like-nike-and-target-appear-to-pull-back-in-2024/

I didn't mind they supported, even if it seemed a bit contrived.

I've read a couple of things (in between these walls of text) that make me sympathize with your suffering.

We mostly base our worldview on lived experiences, and i never mistreated someone that is on the lgbt "spectrum" lets call it, some are my neighbours, i treat them with the same respect as i treat all others, as expected.

I assumed this was the common position, guess i was wrong, maybe depends on the country, idk, i just never seen any of the behaviour described against this group of people.

Take care.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

57 minutes ago, carecaplatonico said:

I've read a couple of things (in between these walls of text) that make me sympathize with your suffering.

We mostly base our worldview on lived experiences, and i never mistreated someone that is on the lgbt "spectrum" lets call it, some are my neighbours, i treat them with the same respect as i treat all others, as expected.

I assumed this was the common position, guess i was wrong, maybe depends on the country, idk, i just never seen any of the behaviour described against this group of people.

Take care.

 

I think that is a really healthy and mature thing to acknowledge and admit. Thank you for your sympathy and good for you as well. 

It does depend on the country, but it also depends on a lot of things. Like some countries are bigger than others, some countries have over a billion people, some countries only have a few hundred thousand people. Many if not most are somewhere inbetween. America has some cities that have more people than my entire country, let alone States. Why does it matter? Well, it can lead to large differences in individuals personal experiences and understanding, because of differences in culture, politics, social politics, being in a relatively conservative area or relatively liberal area. Are you in a liberal or conservative city, in a liberal or conservative State? Are you city or country? Low income area, middle or high? Also depending on size, your neighbourhood may be different from your suburb or city let alone state. Is your nearest neighbour in the same building as you and 30 other people? Or are they 5 miles away? Other factors like your age, education, your areas education and job opportunities. 

It all goes back to what you also say about how people base their worldview, and what can create and change that. For example, I was brought up with a conservative family, in a relatively conservative neighbourhood, but only when it came to religion and some social topics, like LGBQT issues. Except we were all also racial/ethnic minorities. Not in the neighbourhood, but in the country. In the neighbourhood we were the majority, but as far as city and country, a minority. As far as media reflection, we were generalised in two different ways. As very friendly, sweet, family orientated people, but also as rough tough potentially dangerous people. Also what I just described is something that happens in a lot of countries with minorities. 

Thing is, by default, you can't expect an individual to know and understand what 1000 peoples life experiences will be, intimately and with great nuance and understanding. Let alone 7 billion, but this is where certain things, like empathy, sympathy, education, learning, technology, media, can help. As can travel too, as can acquiring and experiencing new life experiences, getting to know different types of people, in neutral and positive ways. People of different backgrounds. It can be good for you, good for them. You get to learn about different things, cultures, ideas. Personally I have had friends who lived in Norway, USA, India, Iraq, Canada, Australia, Mexico, Finland, Samoa, its great! 

 

1 hour ago, carecaplatonico said:

All the major companies are withdrawing support.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2024/06/05/companies-blasted-for-supporting-pride-last-year-like-nike-and-target-appear-to-pull-back-in-2024/

 

I don't think thats necessarily an accurate conclusion to make, just because its a bit more nuanced/complicated. There can be positive, negative and neutral reasons to lessen ones support for any cause. Corporations and businesses for example can face accusations of slacktivism, or exploiting minority groups, and thus backlash if they seem tone deaf, hypocritical or only trying to profit by jumping on a bandwagon. Not just from people who don't want them to support an issue, but from people who want them to support an issue more honestly, ethically and carefully. So throw in pandering in there as well. 

See some people also don't necessarily know or care much about that sort of complexity. For example, earlier in this thread I made a joke about Kendall Jenner Pepsi ad. Some people will have read my joke and been like "Who and what? I don't know that, why should I care?" and some other people would have read it and been like "Oh man, that ad was really tone deaf, and unintentionally hilarious, I liked when The Boys parodied it" or something like that. Then it gets even more complex, because Pepsi did experience reduced sales, so business wise... their ad backfired and cost them money (don't worry, they have a lot), but Kendall Jenner is still a wealthy person from a wealthy family, who probably didn't mean to come off as tone deaf to important issues, but still lives a glamorous life, and the Boys (show) is still made by Amazon... and for some, none of this matters, but for Pepsi, its important, because if they want to make money by supporting a cause, they probably don't want to seem tone deaf, because it can backfire, but for many businesses, its worth the risk, because it can make them money. 

Most important and most relevant though... is that big businesses and corporations, have the luxury and privilege of being able to choose how much support they can show at any given time, month to month, year to year, independent of a movements progress, set backs, momentum, pauses. They are in it for wealth and growth, most of the time, which means riding public perception and trends, which can fluctuate. Its very rare that there is someone in the business, who has enough weight, power or authority to actually commit to an issue because of moral or ethical reasons and they take a stance which may potentially lose them support or money. 

Then thats not true of most individuals, and their day to day reality as far as lived experiences (specifically the bit about luxury and privilege, not the latter part about ethics, morals and sincerity). For example, even though America can still have racial tension and issues, most people in America as I currently understand it, will say approve of interracial marriage. Quick quick searching, (may be issues with methodology, accuracy and reliability), shows that in 2021 94% of Americans publicly approve of interracial marriage. Up from 5% in the 1950's. Thats just one metric though. Barrack Obama being black was still a positive, negative and neutral thing and discussion point. For some people, that took it as a sign that America had defeated racism permanently. For some, it was just a nice minor note for continued improvement and progress, and its actually the day when we have the 7th black President and its just seen as normal and the default and not a new or crazy thing, that we should celebrate. 

In some countries in the future, Pride month will be less of a big deal for good reasons, if LGBQT+ treatment and experiences are normal, accepted, widespread, to such a point thats it mundane and so accepted and so normal that, its not really that much different than anyone else's experiences. Just that some places and countries have longer ways to go, and even the countries that lead the way, can usually make improvements (but not just for LGBQT+ people, but a lot of minorities, plus poor people, homeless people, people with disabilities, restorative justice issues, education opportunity, etc Some countries still struggle with certain racism/sexism issues as well. 

Thank you for the link. 

[Voltage]

10 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

I'm stating things that have happened to me IRL, I'm sorry if stating what happens in the real world to real gay people is "divisive" to you. Maybe it's time you guys be less worked up over gay pride, and more worked up over all the nazi pride parades happening in the USA without consequence.

The problematic people in your experience are S#&$ty people, not straight people. The problematic people in @Prexades' examples are S#&$ty people, not another labeled group.

I'm not disputing or belittling your experiences or the examples other people face. It's dangerous to drag orientation or beliefs into the discussion as a label that separates people in any capacity.

Am I "you guys" for being straight? I'm confused what you mean here. I'm not supportive of rude comments in either direction, and I'm definitely not worked up over anything. I could honestly care less. There are better things to worry about.

Cheers. I'm dipping from this thread. I don't plan on running in circles on a topic not even related to the game.

[Th3Crims0nHunter99]

I'll just say this, I don't really care if you're part of the LGBT. I get that there are hateful people and that sucks, but do you really think that all the inappropriate stuff that tends to happen in pride parades is really gonna help? Also, about the corporations, if you look at the western branches, they change to the rainbow every June, but do they do the same when it comes to their (for an example) Middle Eastern branches? No, they don't. Do you think they really care about LGBT rights, or are they just doing it for social brownie points?

 

Also, I'll say this: I'm a Latino myself, am I just gonna go around and tell White people and Black people that I'm a Latino and for them to treat me like I'm some kind of special person who should be treated differently? No. I don't want to be treated differently or be treated like I'm special. I just want to be treated normally and be treated like everyone else. There is a Latino/Hispanic heritage month, the only way I found out about it was because at my work, they sort of changed a font on one of their pages for it months back and I just thought it was silly but whatever. I don't really think we should be given something like that because then, we just get treated like we're special or even experience tokenism, which is something I don't like.

 

Is all of this really necessary? No, it's not. I'm not trying to be hateful. I'm just simply saying what I believe about all of this.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

10 hours ago, Prexades said:

Other people got murdered as well. Other injusticies happened. People die or decide to kill themselves who are not part of your group. No one but their closest friends and relatives even remembering them.  No parade for them either.

Careful you are not becoming the bully themselves. If you always see yourself as victim, then you are not too far away from becoming an oppressor.

I believe what you're doing is called minimizing the experience. We can play that game and see who can be more callous. 

So if we're going that route...then make sure you never, ever complain about anything ever again. 

You don't even get to complain about month long parades if that's the case, correct? 

There's other things going on in life....so why even open your mouth? 

Accept the parades and move on to a more direct issue in your life.

[Prexades]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb (PSN)Madurai-Prime:

I believe what you're doing is called minimizing the experience. We can play that game and see who can be more callous. 

So if we're going that route...then make sure you never, ever complain about anything ever again. 

You don't even get to complain about month long parades if that's the case, correct? 

There's other things going on in life....so why even open your mouth? 

Accept the parades and move on to a more direct issue in your life.

I believe what you are doing is called narcissim. In that your experience is more special than the experience of others suffering. It is more special, but only for you. Others don't have to celebrate that you see yourself as special. Remember this thread started because one person asked for a full forum lockdown because not everyone agreed with pride stuff.

Please take a page out of your own advice and move on with your life.

Edited June 9 by Prexades

[Zimzala]

4 hours ago, Prexades said:

...Remember this thread started because one person asked for a full forum lockdown because not everyone agreed with pride stuff. ...

Nope.

Not even close.

On 2024-06-02 at 7:00 AM, Silenzeio said:

I'm gonna be Captain Obvious when i say that Steam forums are already a toxic pit. But since the very second of Pride items coming to the in game market, the Steam forums of Warframe have just devolved into a toxic mess of anti-Pride screaming. 

Be interested in seeing if DE or Valve will step in to shut the forums down. 

This person was interested in what might happen, they did not call for anything.

This is why so many people get so outraged, they make things up in their heads to be mad about that don't exist.

This is called 'having a chip on your shoulder'.

Edited June 9 by Zimzala

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, Zimzala said:

Nope.

Not even close.

This person was interested in what might happen, they did not call for anything.

This is why so many people get so outraged, they make things up in their heads to be mad about that don't exist.

This is called 'having a chip on your shoulder'.

I thought it was called "mental illness" when you saw things that weren't there?

[Xylena_Lazarow]

29 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

I thought it was called "mental illness" when you saw things that weren't there?

Not in this case. Just willful ignorance. You gotta be pretty damn stupid to see pride parades as a "threat" when literal nazis are on the march.

14 hours ago, Voltage said:

It's dangerous to drag orientation or beliefs into the discussion as a label that separates people in any capacity.

Evil wins when good men do nothing.

Edited June 9 by Xylena_Lazarow