Bile hurts more than platinum? (Archon Shards unequip)

[PublikDomain]

1 hour ago, trst said:

It's beneficial in that it returns value and incentive to gathering basic resources again. All those farming frames and meta nodes, or really just the star chart in general, lost nearly all their value the moment players got their stockpiles to the point of no longer caring.

You see it as an annoyance, I see it as a reason to engage with parts of the game that nobody has reason to return to otherwise. Needing to go and get more resources is literally more reasons to play the game. 

What "value" is returned when people instead say "that's annoying, so I'm not going to bother with it at all"?

And if someone is to the point where their stockpile is to the point of no longer caring, why would they be going to get more for their stockpile? I have never had a reason to go farm for more Nav Coordinates or Voidgel Orbs, nor would I want one.

[Joezone619]

On 2024-06-04 at 11:10 AM, ominumi said:

It's not like we can buy Bile resources with plat.... oh wait we can.

Hell, we can even buy the blueprints with platinum for some of them to craft like orokin cells. _{Its a complete rip off, but hey, the option is still there.}

[trst]

29 minutes ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

That's a fair response, but why Bile specifically? Wouldn't it give the same meaning and engagement to you if it was Oxides or Synthetics? They deliberately chose mats for Bile that come from obscure specific corners of the game, with little to no overlap with other grinds, with fewer players farming them, in order to ensure that Bile would accumulate more slowly than the others during normal gameplay. In other words, they know darn well that Bile is "annoying" to go out of your way for.

That's why every time this comes up my counter suggestion is for it to take resources based on the Shard type or a small % of every category. Still gives value to everything but you're not stuck in the same few areas. Plus it's hard to call it a resource sink when it only sinks like 15 of the 90 something resources it can use.

I'd rather it have variety instead of removing it entirely or having a plat option.

 

14 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

What "value" is returned when people instead say "that's annoying, so I'm not going to bother with it at all"?

If someone doesn't value having more goals to work on, which is strange when that's the only reason most players engage with the game at all, there's nothing forcing them to do it. But at the same time those players probably shouldn't be forcing themselves into the situation of needing to farm those resources again. 

Don't want to farm basics again? Then don't swap Shards around (or at least do so less), research Shard interactions externally instead of doing so manually, make use of Extractors, if you must farm then only do so efficiently with boosters, and/or only feed Helminth when the feeding bonus naturally maxes out. Doing all/some of that should prevent anyone from ever running completely dry.

25 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

And if someone is to the point where their stockpile is to the point of no longer caring, why would they be going to get more for their stockpile? I have never had a reason to go farm for more Nav Coordinates or Voidgel Orbs, nor would I want one.

If your stockpile isn't running out then you're exempt from the issue entirely. If yours is running out, or you believe it eventually will, then you now have reason to farm those resources again.

And again some might see that as a bad thing but I don't see what's wrong with having another objective to work on even if it's a returning one.

[PublikDomain]

31 minutes ago, trst said:

Don't want to farm basics again? Then don't swap Shards around (or at least do so less), research Shard interactions externally instead of doing so manually, make use of Extractors, if you must farm then only do so efficiently with boosters, and/or only feed Helminth when the feeding bonus naturally maxes out. Doing all/some of that should prevent anyone from ever running completely dry.

Which is all the same kind of annoying junk people had to do with Arcane Distillers. Just don't swap them around, just put them on one Syandana you really like, just use the good ones from this build guide, just farm standing in this specific way, etc. And yet this requirement was removed and now Arcanes can be swapped around for free. Why do you think that was?

31 minutes ago, trst said:

If your stockpile isn't running out then you're exempt from the issue entirely.

I certainly don't feel that way. I might be able to afford swapping Shards, but that doesn't mean I'm dumb enough to waste my resources on it anyways. So I do basically what you suggest: I don't swap Shards at all. I'm not farming, I'm not experimenting, I'm not grinding, I'm not doing anything with it. There is none of the value here you seem to think there is.

If the goal of this system is to encourage farming more resources and spending time in the content that it entails, then it's failing. For one, like @Xylena_Lazarow mentions if this is supposed to be a resource sink then maybe it should sink more than just a small handful of resources? The Bile cost was also reduced recently, just like the cost of Arcane Distillers was once reduced in the past. And even still, for many all the Bile cost actually succeeds in doing for many players is turning them off and telling them to not even bother. Don't experiment, don't try new things, just follow some build guide and do it right the first time and never touch it again.

Edited June 5 by PublikDomain

[trst]

30 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

Which is all the same kind of annoying junk people had to do with Arcane Distillers. Just don't swap them around, just put them on one Syandana you really like, just use the good ones from this build guide, just farm standing in this specific way, etc. And yet this requirement was removed and now Arcanes can be swapped around for free. Why do you think that was?

Except Distillers required days to get one and tied up cosmetic options. Plus being tied to rep hard capped all possible progress you could make towards them per day. The reasons for their removal makes them not at all comparable to Bile costs.

38 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I certainly don't feel that way. I might be able to afford swapping Shards, but that doesn't mean I'm dumb enough to waste my resources on it anyways. So I do basically what you suggest: I don't swap Shards at all. I'm not farming, I'm not experimenting, I'm not grinding, I'm not doing anything with it. There is none of the value here you seem to think there is.

Then there you go, you're exempt from the issue entirely. You've made the choice that removes your need to intentionally farm for resources. 

And of course you wouldn't see the value in having resources as an objective again. Since you've chosen to ensure it can't be an objective in the first place there's no opportunity for the value to even be a consideration.

54 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

If the goal of this system is to encourage farming more resources and spending time in the content that it entails, then it's failing. For one, like @Xylena_Lazarow mentions if this is supposed to be a resource sink then maybe it should sink more than just a small handful of resources? The Bile cost was also reduced recently, just like the cost of Arcane Distillers was once reduced in the past. And even still, for many all the Bile cost actually succeeds in doing for many players is turning them off and telling them to not even bother. Don't experiment, don't try new things, just follow some build guide and do it right the first time and never touch it again.

And again as I've said earlier in this thread I also want the system to use more than just Bile resources. And I'd much rather that outcome than removing costs entirely or making Plat a bypass for it. 

Also if the costs are a turn off for players then I'd hope they're also turned off from every combination of existing solutions too. If they just looked at how much it cost them to make dozens of swaps in one day, and didn't use Sentient resources to restore feeding efficiency, and just threw their hands up and abandoned the system they have only themselves to blame. A variety of solutions exist with a range of effort from next to nothing to one meta farming booster session.

And yes just following a guide is a solution. But that's never the only solution unless someone somehow can't apply any other.

[PublikDomain]

5 minutes ago, trst said:

Except Distillers required days to get one and tied up cosmetic options. Plus being tied to rep hard capped all possible progress you could make towards them per day. The reasons for their removal makes them not at all comparable to Bile costs.

And getting enough resources to feed Helminth requires time to collect and Shards tie up Configs. Plus being tied to Helminth's feeding cooldown soft caps all the possible progress you can make towards them per day. It's the same.

Not only is it the same, so far Shards are quite literally mirroring what already happened in the past with Arcanes. History is repeating itself:

1. Arcanes are attached to Helmets and Syandanas and cost 100k Standing per Distiller to remove
2. Arcanes are attached to Helmets and Syandanas but only cost 50k Standing per Distiller to remove ← We are here
3. Arcanes are attached to Helmets and Syandanas but only cost 50k Standing once to buy a reusable Distiller
4. Arcanes are moved to mod configs and cost nothing to remove

9 minutes ago, trst said:

And of course you wouldn't see the value in having resources as an objective again. Since you've chosen to ensure it can't be an objective in the first place there's no opportunity for the value to even be a consideration.

Not quite. It's true that I don't see the value in having resources as an objective again, but it's not because I've chosen to ensure anything whatsoever. I don't have a lot of resources because I purposely went out and got a bunch to sit on, I have a lot of resources because I've been around for 11 years. The reason there's no opportunity for the "value" to even be a consideration is that there's no value to begin with. What am I supposed to consider? The "value" of collecting resources just to throw them into the toilet? I've found far more value in not wasting hours of my time on nothing.

10 minutes ago, trst said:

Also if the costs are a turn off for players then I'd hope they're also turned off from every combination of existing solutions too. If they just looked at how much it cost them to make dozens of swaps in one day, and didn't use Sentient resources to restore feeding efficiency, and just threw their hands up and abandoned the system they have only themselves to blame. A variety of solutions exist with a range of effort from next to nothing to one meta farming booster session.

Yes, I'm turned off from all the existing """solutions""" which essentially boil down to either "follow a guide and only do it once" or "suck it up and do it anyways". I have looked at how much it costs to make more than a few swaps per day, so I don't make any swaps at all. And players abandoning a system for being wasteful of their time is a fault of the system being wasteful of their time, just as it was with Arcanes so many years in the past.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

The same type of people who are fine with farming a Necramech and said ''It's okay'' but in the end the problem remains.  It's just absurd no matter what reason they give for boring and annoying farming.

I play this for fun, I would like to think that the majority of players are the same but it seems not to be the case. It's time for the farming to be simplified, with 10 years of content it is already quite stup*d for anyone who can't play 10 hours a day. They will say that I am being harsh but I am already tired.

I really like the game, but i  left some times and come back again like the moss players do. Now i come after leaving it for 3 months due to lack of time, then i started playing again now that I have extra free time, but every time i come back it's quite annoying with the limited play time I can get because I have to farm, instead of having fun. No, farming is not fun, especially when I have been farming for 10+ years.

Yes I know you are going to defend your point for x or y reason but the truth is I don't care ''your'' solutions,  the only thing that matters to me is my problem, not your solutions that work for you.

 

 

Edit: 

In case you are wondering if I farm nav coordinate

I had several thousand of that but I spent it on helminth and shards. I like to try weird but fun builds and most of the time I have to change the helminth and the shards then burn all my bile resources much faster than I earn them. Trying builds amuses me just as some other things in the game amuse other ppl, the thing is that I don't have the freedom I would like and people defend this sh*t.

I know special unicorn, you farm x or y way but I just want to have the option of not farming more or that the farm is normal at least.

Edited June 6 by CosoMalvadoNG

[trst]

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

And getting enough resources to feed Helminth requires time to collect and Shards tie up Configs. Plus being tied to Helminth's feeding cooldown soft caps all the possible progress you can make towards them per day. It's the same.

Not only is it the same, so far Shards are quite literally mirroring what already happened in the past with Arcanes. History is repeating itself:

1. Arcanes are attached to Helmets and Syandanas and cost 100k Standing per Distiller to remove
2. Arcanes are attached to Helmets and Syandanas but only cost 50k Standing per Distiller to remove ← We are here
3. Arcanes are attached to Helmets and Syandanas but only cost 50k Standing once to buy a reusable Distiller
4. Arcanes are moved to mod configs and cost nothing to remove

Still not the same thing. The old Arcane system made items that were once universal now tied to specific builds vs Shards being tied to the frame itself. And the "soft cap" of Helminth is nonexistent if you're willing to farm for it or be patient. Distillers offered no such option and patience in that context was waiting days for anything. 

And if you want to say Shards are limiting by being locked to all of a frame's configs at once then you have the far more pressing issue of the entire Forma system. Restricting variety within a frame's build with upgrades is something we've had for most of the game's life now. 

Also worth pointing out that Distillers had precedent for failing as seen with old Arcane helmets tying upgrades to cosmetics. If the system was tied to frames first I wouldn't be surprised if Distillers still existed.

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Not quite. It's true that I don't see the value in having resources as an objective again, but it's not because I've chosen to ensure anything whatsoever. I don't have a lot of resources because I purposely went out and got a bunch to sit on, I have a lot of resources because I've been around for 11 years. The reason there's no opportunity for the "value" to even be a consideration is that there's no value to begin with. What am I supposed to consider? The "value" of collecting resources just to throw them into the toilet? I've found far more value in not wasting hours of my time on nothing.

Having goals to work on is literally what brings players back to the game. If players didn't do that then the player counts wouldn't spike and rapidly fall with every update. And having a reason to dust off a farming setup and gather resources is no different than doing exactly that in something new, especially when we're dealing with a system as investment heavy as Shards. We even have the entire Relic system and Nightwave incentivizing enough content for there to always be overlap with needed resources. 

Also it's your choice to view the resource sink as "wasting" them. Right now it's simply the cost of the system and refusing to pay said cost doesn't default it to a waste. Especially when we're talking about resources that otherwise have no use to anyone* who isn't new due to them passively accumulating faster than new content uses them.

*Minus the exception of Dojo decorators but they're already needing to farm them regardless.

1 hour ago, PublikDomain said:

Yes, I'm turned off from all the existing """solutions""" which essentially boil down to either "follow a guide and only do it once" or "suck it up and do it anyways". I have looked at how much it costs to make more than a few swaps per day, so I don't make any swaps at all. And players abandoning a system for being wasteful of their time is a fault of the system being wasteful of their time, just as it was with Arcanes so many years in the past.

So using Extractors, being frugal with swaps, and not being intentionally inefficient is just "sucking it up" and "following guides" now? And I don't see how throwing on a farming frame when you get a login booster is either when that's just "playing the game". Not that hard to be opportunistic and stockpile some more Bile resources while cracking Relics.

 

Regardless, as I've said a few times now expanding the system to use more than just Bile would help. Especially any changes that make it impossible to intentionally avoid needed resources. Also back to the actual point of this thread I feel it's a safe assumption that the general playerbase would prefer anything other than a Plat option. 

[pisces13]

3 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

 

 

If that's what your mats are looking like, you definitely don't need to be messing around with archon shard builds. Every single one of your materials are extremely low. Just how? You are trying to buy groceries to feed a family of 4 with 1 dollar. I am even stressed seeing how little resources you have yet you are trying to experiment with builds using endgame power progression. I mean even the other sections arent 100%. Your poor helminth is starving. Feed him sir. My OCD is kicking in full time.

[PublikDomain]

2 hours ago, trst said:

Still not the same thing. The old Arcane system made items that were once universal now tied to specific builds vs Shards being tied to the frame itself.

Old Arcanes were not universal, what do you mean by that? They were tied to the cosmetics themselves the same way that Shards are currently tied to the frame itself. Arcanes were changed to be universal as a part of our builds instead of our cosmetics, the exact same way that Shards could be changed to be universal as part of our builds instead of our frames - for all of the exact same reasons.

2 hours ago, trst said:

And the "soft cap" of Helminth is nonexistent if you're willing to farm for it or be patient. Distillers offered no such option and patience in that context was waiting days for anything. 

A cap is a cap. Just because one is soft and another is hard doesn't change that there's a cap. You could have said that the cap for Distillers was just as "nonexistent" if you were willing to be patient. Waiting a day for your cap to refill or waiting a day for Helminth's appetite to refill is the same. You're still waiting days for things to refill. All of the things you say about Shards can be said about old Arcanes and vice versa. For example:

2 hours ago, trst said:

Also worth pointing out that Distillers had precedent for failing as seen with old Arcane helmets tying upgrades to cosmetics.

This is the same precedent for Shards failing. Old Arcanes were annoying to manage, that's why they failed. Being tied to cosmetics was just one way they were annoying - they were also expensive and slow to work with. In the same way we've already got people giving up on Shards and dropping the system because it's less annoying to do once and then ignore than it is to constantly try and engage with it. And one of DE's answers to old Arcanes being annoying to manage was to reduce the Standing cost for Distillers, which is exactly the same thing they did with Shards by reducing the Bile cost. So what's the actual precedent? The lifting of these annoying restrictions, lol.

2 hours ago, trst said:

And if you want to say Shards are limiting by being locked to all of a frame's configs at once then you have the far more pressing issue of the entire Forma system. Restricting variety within a frame's build with upgrades is something we've had for most of the game's life now. 

And Forma being incompatible with configs is bad too! This is a very common complaint about that system and many would love to see something improved. And when they suggest such a thing you get the same "just do XYZ" excuses you see here. Just plan your build out ahead of time, just farm Forma this certain way, just make a second frame, etc.

Restricting variety in a game all about its variety is not a good thing, even if we've had restrictions for most of the game's life. Luckily these restrictions have also been constantly reduced for most of the game's life, like with the addition of universal Aura and Stance Forma or making Arcanes universal and part of mod configs or removing the need for duplicate mods for Sentinel weapons or adding Valence mechanics or so on.

This despite the same tired complaints from the same people who would prefer nothing change and everything remain as restricted as possible even though this perspective is constantly and inevitably proven wrong.

2 hours ago, trst said:

Having goals to work on is literally what brings players back to the game.

And "stand around for an hour picking up Voidgel" isn't a goal. It's a chore. I'll just speak for myself here, but a resource farm has has never brought me back to the game. New gameplay has. New guns and frames have. Quests have. That's in part why the game's population is so spiky: because people aren't sticking around to farm resources just for the sake of farming resources, they leave and only come back when there's an actual new goal to pursue. The only thing the resource grind has ever done for me is burn me out and get me to leave.

2 hours ago, trst said:

So using Extractors, being frugal with swaps, and not being intentionally inefficient is just "sucking it up" and "following guides" now? And I don't see how throwing on a farming frame when you get a login booster is either when that's just "playing the game". Not that hard to be opportunistic and stockpile some more Bile resources while cracking Relics.

Yes? If you're telling people to just use the system as it is instead of wanting it changed, you're telling them to just suck it up and deal with it. If you're one of the ones in this thread that believes that people should plan their builds out ahead of time so they don't have to swap anything later, then you're telling them not to experiment or find things out for themselves and instead just look it up.

And like I said, I'm not farming for anything. When I get a login booster do I say to myself "well I guess I should spend the next several hours sitting in a sewer with Nekros not having any fun"? No, I say "huh" and then don't use the booster for anything because farming Bile would be a waste of my time when I'm already checked out of the system as a whole. And unless "don't play the game" is the intended outcome, that's a bad thing.

2 hours ago, trst said:

Regardless, as I've said a few times now expanding the system to use more than just Bile would help. Especially any changes that make it impossible to intentionally avoid needed resources. Also back to the actual point of this thread I feel it's a safe assumption that the general playerbase would prefer anything other than a Plat option. 

And removing the cost entirely would help even more. Just like with Arcanes before them, if there's no cost to swap them then they can work with configs instead of against them. It'd also mean that Shards can just be returned when you sell your frames so Shards are never lost. People like me wouldn't be unable to experiment without paying the idiot tax to try and could actually have a reason to go get more Shards instead of ignoring them. There'd be more reasons to do things like max out your Netracells or get standing for Bird or do your Archon Hunts. You know, goals. And then people like OP wouldn't be getting so frustrated with this system that they'd prefer to pay money to make it go away.

Edited June 6 by PublikDomain

[Hyroncore]

On 2024-06-05 at 1:06 AM, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Can we just spend some platinum to unequip the archon crystals? For at least half of the players it is easier to sell some mods for platinum than to farm bile. I don't know, something like 5pl?

I know that maybe someone's don't like the idea but I think it's a pretty decent alternative. If you don't want to spend platinum on that, you don't do it and that's it.

Please DE I don't have the time to farm 3 hours a day to be able to unequip 5 shards from a single warframe. 
Please players see the viability of this alternative and do not feel offended.

 

 

I see two issues with this suggestion.

1) It ignores the fact that over time you and other active veterans wont NEED to swap as you get more shards. Remember the system is new and even a casual like me has nearly 2 sets of shards depending on frame in question.
 

2) Another plat purchase when the system already requires plat for color fusion would be problematic for numerous reasons. The foremost is the impression that Digital Extremes is monetizing the game to benefit veterans (or some variation thereof).

Very confused how you find bile hard to farm as I have been doing so recently with a nekros and drop doubler and getting plenty of bile as a result. Sure I am using platinum boosters but thats a system already in place that wont add to others in a potentially negative manner.

That and when you get sentient feeding access you can spam a small handful of resources till they are red and reset. That usually gets me 5 shards off and a couple infusions before I run out again keeping in mind the resource doubler currently active.

[Tsukinoki]

14 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

They deliberately chose mats for Bile that come from obscure specific corners of the game, with little to no overlap with other grinds

Please tell me which of these bile components are from "obscure specific corners of the game with little to no overlap with other grinds":
-Nav Coordinates
-Argon Crystals
-Diluted Thermia
-Thermal Sludge
-Isos
-Ticor Plates
-Voidgel Orbs
-Morphics

Pretty much all of those can be gotten as you go after other farms and are doing stuff you'll be doing anyways.

There are 4 resources you won't come across in general play:
The two railjack specific resources can be passively farmed in large numbers as you do other related grinds (holokeys, pime parts, etc)
The two open world resources are also easily passively gained as you do other open world activities (for nightwave, standing, etc)

But even though you don't come across them in normal starchart you'll still come across them as you farm for other things that are specific to those areas.

 

The rest of the resources though?
Please, explain to me how Argon Crystals are from "obscure specific corners to the game"?  Or how Morphics have "little to no overlap with other grinds"?
Or how Nav Coordiantes don't drop from literally every single planet in the game regardless of activity.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

32 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said:

Please tell me which of these bile components are from "obscure specific corners of the game with little to no overlap with other grinds"

Star chart locations and open worlds that you effectively never return to once you finish them (and have nothing else of late game value).

Railjack and Thermia Fractures... lol these just support my argument.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 10 horas, pisces13 dijo:

If that's what your mats are looking like, you definitely don't need to be messing around with archon shard builds. Every single one of your materials are extremely low. Just how? You are trying to buy groceries to feed a family of 4 with 1 dollar. I am even stressed seeing how little resources you have yet you are trying to experiment with builds using endgame power progression.

Well, I just read a unicorn's comment.

Oh believe me friend I had all those resources in hundreds of thousands not even a year ago, they simply disappeared with the experimentation of builds, just because you use the same build always does not mean that those like me who experiment from day one will be the same as you. Copying builds from youtube is not fun sir/ma'am.

hace 10 horas, pisces13 dijo:

I mean even the other sections aren't* 100%. Your poor helminth is starving. Feed him sir. My OCD is kicking in full time.

You sure are funny.

I don't need the other sections for bile. I don't think in your mind this is even a competent argument or is it?...  But you know what? I am going to please your curiosity of my resources.

I'm sure you have 5 or 6 times more resources, but unlike you I experiment with helminths every time i play the game.

EDIT: bile is one of those resources that are used for many of the best abilities.

Edited June 6 by CosoMalvadoNG

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 10 horas, Hyroncore dijo:

Another plat purchase when the system already requires plat for color fusion would be problematic for numerous reasons. The foremost is the impression that Digital Extremes is monetizing the game to benefit veterans

Are you serious about this? So only veterans can have platinum? Do you need to be a veteran to use helminth? Do you need to be a veteran to sell mods, arcanes and primes?

I have several accounts on PC and it literally takes me a couple of weeks with my limited playing time to complete all the adventures in the game, which would give me access to what you call "veterans benefit." Now imagine someone who can play 5-10 hours a day. 

My mastery rank is 30 and I got it recently, which I think denotes the limited playing time I can get for the last 6+ years.

 

Edited June 6 by CosoMalvadoNG

[(PSN)Unstar]

2 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

I'm sure you have 5 or 6 times more resources, but unlike you I experiment with helminths every time i play the game.

I commend your dedication to experimentation!  For me, the cost is just way too steep, so I agonize over just about every use of my Helminth.  I do all the experimentation and research I can before doing any Helminth; that generally doesn't account for everything, but it generally gives me a much better idea of whether doing the actual Helminth will be "worth it".

My genuine impression of Helminth is that DE doesn't want players experimenting with it; if they did, the cost to use it wouldn't be so steep.  If it cost resources like Bile to switch out my mods and arcanes, I wouldn't experiment with them, either.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 27 minutos, (PSN)Unstar dijo:

I commend your dedication to experimentation!  For me, the cost is just way too steep, so I agonize over just about every use of my Helminth.  I do all the experimentation and research I can before doing any Helminth; that generally doesn't account for everything, but it generally gives me a much better idea of whether doing the actual Helminth will be "worth it".

My genuine impression of Helminth is that DE doesn't want players experimenting with it; if they did, the cost to use it wouldn't be so steep.  If it cost resources like Bile to switch out my mods and arcanes, I wouldn't experiment with them, either.

I understand what you're saying, but research sometimes doesn't give results, in my case some times no one has tested ''x'' ability with ''x'' warframe so I need to test my self. Besides the fact that I enjoy building my warframes and seeing if what I imagine has results or if it can be maximized in some way, i'm not going to lie, most of the results are not satisfactory, but when something really good or fun happens in one of my builds, I feel quite proud.

For example a few years ago when I tried to make work the mag magnetize pull for a much longer time and ended up using Blood Altar to keep the enemy alive and the magnetize orb keep it sucking enemies to the end of Blood Altar duration or also when I changed it to Well of Life + its augmend to recover more energy from the health orbs with Equilibrium in addition to accumulating insane damage.  These are things that you would say anyone could think of but you see very few people using although it works wonders if you use it in specific situations.

Edited June 6 by CosoMalvadoNG

[pisces13]

2 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

Well, I just read a unicorn's comment.

Oh believe me friend I had all those resources in hundreds of thousands not even a year ago, they simply disappeared with the experimentation of builds, just because you use the same build always does not mean that those like me who experiment from day one will be the same as you. Copying builds from youtube is not fun sir/ma'am.

You sure are funny.

I don't need the other sections for bile. I don't think in your mind this is even a competent argument or is it?...  But you know what? I am going to please your curiosity of my resources.

I'm sure you have 5 or 6 times more resources, but unlike you I experiment with helminths every time i play the game.

EDIT: bile is one of those resources that are used for many of the best abilities.

Aww that's cute. You're a mind reader. You know I do not experiment with builds. Aside from that, DE probably won't be touching helminth costs. It isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. Atleast I will enjoy knowing I have millions of materials to use whenever I want instead of complaining about measely bile. Play the game more. Complain less.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 1 minuto, pisces13 dijo:

Aww that's cute. You're a mind reader. You know I do not experiment with builds. Aside from that, DE probably won't be touching helminth costs. It isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. Atleast I will enjoy knowing I have millions of materials to use whenever I want instead of complaining about measely bile. Play the game more. Complain less.

There's no point in answering you. I guess you like twitter.

[pisces13]

Just now, CosoMalvadoNG said:

There's no point in answering you. I guess you like twitter.

You just did. Thanks. 

[Xylena_Lazarow]

1 minute ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

For example a few years ago when I tried to run the mag magnetize for much longer and ended up using Blood Altar to keep the enemy alive and the orb keep it sucking enemies or also when I changed it to Well of Life + its augmend to recover more energy from the health orbs  with Equilibrium in addition to accumulating insane damage.  These are things that you would say anyone could think of but you see very few people using although it works wonders if you use it in specific situations.

Also a great example of creative niche solutions players end up missing out on due to punishing Bile cost. Few players are going to pay all that Bile to experiment with Blood Altar strats on Mag when you can just skip all that risk and thinking, go easy meta with red shards plus Nourish or Bleach Surge and be done with it. Games aren't something I want to just be done with, I'd like to enjoy the moment to moment gameplay, not do Bile chores before I'm allowed to play with my toys.

[ominumi]

2 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

I understand what you're saying, but research sometimes doesn't give results, in my case some times no one has tested ''x'' ability with ''x'' warframe so I need to test my self. Besides the fact that I enjoy building my warframes and seeing if what I imagine has results or if it can be maximized in some way, i'm not going to lie, most of the results are not satisfactory, but when something really good or fun happens in one of my builds, I feel quite proud.

For example a few years ago when I tried to make work the mag magnetize pull for a much longer time and ended up using Blood Altar to keep the enemy alive and the magnetize orb keep it sucking enemies to the end of Blood Altar duration or also when I changed it to Well of Life + its augmend to recover more energy from the health orbs with Equilibrium in addition to accumulating insane damage.  These are things that you would say anyone could think of but you see very few people using although it works wonders if you use it in specific situations.

Sure those are good example but how does 20% power strength going to affect those example? Or are emerald shards better to slot in for those situations?

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 21 horas, ominumi dijo:

Sure those are good example but how does 20% power strength going to affect those example? Or are emerald shards better to slot in for those situations?

I never mention what type of shards I use or decide to use.

In any case i can use armor, casting speed, energy, life recovery per second, melee crit damage, primary weapon status. At first my mag had, 3 armor normal blue shards and 2 cast normal amber shards (in this build i used adaptation and Arcane Guardian + blood altar for more tankiness),  

Now in my  actual build I use 1 amber cast,  2 blue armor, 1 amber max filled energy, and 1 red duration. By the way, I have to update them to Tau shards and switch some crystal that I want to change, ''but I don't have bile oh wow''. Out of jokes Mag is not the only warframe I want to make changes to, one of the ideas I have is to use pure tau red shards to increase the status of my primary weapons in a weapon that has good multi-shot and high status chance so magnetize could be even more harmful.

As I said with experimentation there is always something to maximize or something that didn't occur to you before.

Edited June 7 by CosoMalvadoNG

[ominumi]

5 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said:

I never mention what type of shards I use or decide to use.

In any case i can use armor, casting speed, energy, life recovery per second, melee crit damage, primary weapon status. At first my mag had, 3 armor normal blue shards and 2 cast normal amber shards (in this build i used adaptation and Arcane Guardian + blood altar for more tankiness),  

Now in my  actual build I use 1 amber cast,  2 blue armor, 1 amber max filled energy, and 1 red duration. By the way, I have to update them to Tau shards and switch some crystal that I want to change, ''but I don't have bile oh wow''. Out of jokes Mag is not the only warframe I want to make changes to, one of the ideas I have is to use pure tau red shards to increase the status of my primary weapons in a weapon that has good multi-shot and high status chance so magnetize could be even more harmful.

As I said with experimentation there is always something to maximize or something that didn't occur to you before.

Nope I stopped experimenting once DE added in Archon shards because shards doesn't NOTHING to weapons.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

hace 4 horas, ominumi dijo:

Nope I stopped experimenting once DE added in Archon shards because shards doesn't NOTHING to weapons.

lmfao.