What on earth is happening in Deep Archimedia?

[yoritomosomori]

I thought I had a good set of frames and workable set of personal research bonuses this week to try and unlock EDA.

Doing this solo has been a very off-putting nightmare so far.

Then I ran into that mirror defense and lost in about 20 seconds. A few tries later I thought I'd intentionally turn on public matchmaking for the first time ever.

And I still end up having to solo the mission again. Repeatedly. Is there really no number of players scaling on these hazards?

[PublikDomain]

I'm not sure if DA actually has public matchmaking. Granted, I haven't ever tried myself. Check recruiting chat, the phrase you're looking for is "EDA" or "elite deep". Finding a group should be pretty quick. DA/EDA aren't balanced for solo players. You can solo it, but it's not meant to be played that way.

Quote

While it can be attempted solo, we highly recommend you go into Deep Archimedea with a Squad that has carefully prepared their Loadouts and is ready to take on the challenges ahead. 

Edited June 10 by PublikDomain

[(PSN)Sentiel]

15 minutes ago, yoritomosomori said:

I thought I had a good set of frames and workable set of personal research bonuses this week to try and unlock EDA.

Doing this solo has been a very off-putting nightmare so far.

Then I ran into that mirror defense and lost in about 20 seconds. A few tries later I thought I'd intentionally turn on public matchmaking for the first time ever.

And I still end up having to solo the mission again. Repeatedly. Is there really no number of players scaling on these hazards?

Try to change your region and ping limit to the region. The NA region feels the most active to me even though I'm in Europe.

As for the Mirror Defence, you need to actively protect it and collect glyphs to heal it at the same time. It can be done solo depending on your frame and weapons, or you can rely on your Specters to guard the objective.

[Tiltskillet]

39 minutes ago, yoritomosomori said:

And I still end up having to solo the mission again. Repeatedly. Is there really no number of players scaling on these hazards?

A lot presumably depends on region and time.  In my region I've had no trouble getting random public squads for a couple of days after a reset.  It slows noticeably after that, but it still hasn't been a struggle as late as Thursday.   (If it's anything like other weeklies, I expect there will be an uptick of people doing it on the weekend too, though I haven't tried that with EDA.)

[(PSN)Unstar]

28 minutes ago, yoritomosomori said:

Then I ran into that mirror defense and lost in about 20 seconds. A few tries later I thought I'd intentionally turn on public matchmaking for the first time ever.

And I still end up having to solo the mission again. Repeatedly. Is there really no number of players scaling on these hazards?

One big factor might be that generally speaking, once you unlock Elite Deep Archimedea there's no reason to ever play normal Deep Archimedea again.  The difficulty difference between DA and EDA isn't very significant, so it's quite possible that majority of players interested in end-game-ish content said their permanent goodbyes to DA weeks ago.

While I haven't done normal DA since week 1, my experiences with EDA suggest that timing is also going to be an important factor.  You're a lot more likely to get a group (either by automated matchmaking or Recruiting) on Sunday afternoon.  After that, it seems to sharply diminish, though playing during peak hours certainly helps.

 

17 minutes ago, PublikDomain said:

I'm not sure if DA actually has public matchmaking.

I can confirm that both DA and EDA do have public matchmaking; I've done full runs with both of them.

[MutoManiac]

I would wait until there is no mirror defense. I did it solo and am an average player. Maybe just do it with your gear of choice just to unlock it.

[Traumtulpe]

People are playing the "elite version" - which is infinitely easier, ironically, since you can bring one item of your choice and still get your rewards - making matchmaking for the "regular" version quite sparse, I'd assume.

And well, defense objectives not being scaled up to the mission they are found in is not something unusual in Warframe, quite the opposite in fact. Quite frankly this week might be rough solo, doubly so if you didn't get lucky with your random equipment.

[Zakkhar]

53 minutes ago, yoritomosomori said:

Then I ran into that mirror defense and lost in about 20 seconds.

Did you bring any area denial frame*? Mirror Defence will just not suceed on pure damage, even if it is passive damage and you can focus on gathering points.

Spoiler

*) something that either protects the target itself from damage (eg. frost, khora), cc's the map (slow nova), redirects the damage elsewhere (octavia) or just constantly nukes the area (protea)

 

Edited June 10 by Zakkhar

[PublikDomain]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

I can confirm that both DA and EDA do have public matchmaking; I've done full runs with both of them.

Thanks, that's nice to know. I hadn't ever had anyone join me the few times I went in by myself so I wasn't sure.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb yoritomosomori:

I thought I had a good set of frames and workable set of personal research bonuses this week to try and unlock EDA.

Doing this solo has been a very off-putting nightmare so far.

Then I ran into that mirror defense and lost in about 20 seconds. A few tries later I thought I'd intentionally turn on public matchmaking for the first time ever.

And I still end up having to solo the mission again. Repeatedly. Is there really no number of players scaling on these hazards?

you've probably unlocked the ELITE version by now? I also had trouble finding people for the elite version. Otherwise, the last few weeks were good.
The problem is the survival this week. I've marked it in the screenshot below. This week you need good weapons against normal enemies and also against NECRAMECHS!
I probably should have taken mele ash and built kuva sobek against necramechs. Because today it was really close. We had 2-4% life support shortly before the end and chewed up the last necramech with 4 people with sweat on our faces.

But don't be alarmed - it's not always like that.

[Zakkhar]

7 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

This week you need good weapons against normal enemies and also against NECRAMECHS!
I probably should have taken mele ash and built kuva sobek against necramechs. Because today it was really close. We had 2-4% life support shortly before the end and chewed up the last necramech with 4 people with sweat on our faces.

Normal enemies still drop the modules, you can completely ignore the Necramechs and be fine.

[Venus-Venera]

Gerade eben schrieb Zakkhar:

Normal enemies still drop the modules, you can completely ignore the Necramechs and be fine.

wasn't enough for us. And I even saw necros on our team.

[Berzerkules]

35 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

wasn't enough for us. And I even saw necros on our team.

In my experience if everyone focuses on the mechs there aren't enough trash mob kills to maintain life support. Also there isn't enough life support capsules dropped from mechs to maintain life support anyways. Since they spawn every 90 seconds and life support drops 1% every 1.5 seconds, you will drop 60% between spawns and only gain 30% life support for 6 capsules they drop. Imo mechs are a waste of time unless you can drop them incredibly quick. it's a trap.

I think we had the same hostile support survival last week and my rando squad focused on the mechs while I went ham on thash mobs. No one else had close to 100 kills and I was about 700. We didn't fall below 50% because I hard carried with melee influence and pillage. 

Edited June 10 by Berzerkules

[Kaiga]

People don't like playing game modes where the fun is nerfed out of them in the name of "difficulty", with crippling debuffs and choice and playstyle-limiting RNG of varying quality.

There are so many, almost dimwitted oversights like the life support gap, the defense objectives not scaling and getting obliterated, and the overall weight of all the downsides, that people don't bother with it once they've gotten their reward for the week, or just don't even do them and stick to netracells.

I've said it before- RNG and cripplingly unfun hazards like unkillable pester mobs, are not "difficulty", there's no more mechanical skill required, or playstyle or build or strategy, EDA is just a list of boring stumbling blocks that can be traded in for more concentrated, but not unique rewards.

 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

done it flawless, full 37 points this week, here's how;

- with the Mirror Defense, you need someone on Glyph Duty. the only way to prevent the objectives from dying is to grab the glyphs the moment they appear. naturally, a Titania works well here, though this week we also have my least favorite modifier, Abbreviated Abilities, so it's gonna be tough. also had no transference, otherwise you could just summon Voidrig to defend against the enemies. if you're not going for full points and have a decent Necramech I'd take the transference restriction off.

- Alchemy isn't really that bad, or at least I haven't seen anyone say they struggle with it so far.

- the survival ideally requires at least one person to have a loadout that can quickly deal with mechs by piling on status procs and/or someone with armor strip. killing the mechs is important since it's where your LS drops come from and the eximus necramechs reduce the timer if you summon and kill them.

overall it's totally doable, I'll admit that I had decent frame picks again this week (Revenant, Sevagoth, Nidus), but I'm not a fan of transference distortion, and I hate abbreviated abilities, IMO it should be nerfed to 50%, 75% as a final multiplier is almost nullifying most builds, and  I think most of us can agree that removing options outright is about as artificial as artificial difficulty can get. 

[Tiltskillet]

1 hour ago, Berzerkules said:

In my experience if everyone focuses on the mechs there aren't enough trash mob kills to maintain life support. Also there isn't enough life support capsules dropped from mechs to maintain life support anyways. Since they spawn every 90 seconds and life support drops 1% every 1.5 seconds, you will drop 60% between spawns and only gain 30% life support for 6 capsules they drop. Imo mechs are a waste of time unless you can drop them incredibly quick. it's a trap.

One can't spend -too- much time on them, but if they can be killed with any efficiency at all they're valuable for the 45s reduction in the timer rather than the life support.  The latter just takes some of the sting out of it when they do take a while to destroy.

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, (PSN)robotwars7 said:

deal with mechs by piling on status procs and/or someone with armor strip

Mechs armor is unstrippable.

[Berzerkules]

26 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

One can't spend -too- much time on them, but if they can be killed with any efficiency at all they're valuable for the 45s reduction in the timer rather than the life support.  The latter just takes some of the sting out of it when they do take a while to destroy.

The timer reduction is nice but with random loadouts killing them efficiently isn't always easy. I know I can easily clear trash mobs with almost any melee they give me though. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

The other people involved and you weren't ready yet.

Keep trying a Pub or try to get carried in a recruit chat group.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb Berzerkules:

The timer reduction is nice but with random loadouts killing them efficiently isn't always easy. I know I can easily clear trash mobs with almost any melee they give me though. 

As you wrote above, there are several successful tactics. Only this week there are miserable modifiers like:

• no operator
• low ammo pickups
• low duration

When I saw the warframes and weapons on offer, all I could think of was the clown at the top with a bunch of swear words.

But at least we are prepared for the future and will take a closer look at the missions. And then, if necessary, just look for groups in the chat.

[Tiltskillet]

15 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

The timer reduction is nice but with random loadouts killing them efficiently isn't always easy. I know I can easily clear trash mobs with almost any melee they give me though. 

I haven't studied the mechanics of survival.  But if I'm reading the wiki right, spending 45s killing a Necramech and killing nothing else would result in a loss of 30% LS.  If it does die by the end of that time, you get that 30% back from its 6x LS modules besides making the minimum mission time 45s shorter.  That seems like a pretty good deal. 

Offhand, given that there are going to be some incidental kills during that time too (probably a lot with some builds) it seems like it's got to be worth while if it can be done in a minute.  

Again, I might be missing something obvious about the mechanics though.  So error correction appreciated.

[Berzerkules]

3 minutes ago, Tiltskillet said:

I haven't studied the mechanics of survival.  But if I'm reading the wiki right, spending 45s killing a Necramech and killing nothing else would result in a loss of 30% LS.  If it does die by the end of that time, you get that 30% back from its 6x LS modules besides making the minimum mission time 45s shorter.  That seems like a pretty good deal. 

Offhand, given that there are going to be some incidental kills during that time too (probably a lot with some builds) it seems like it's got to be worth while if it can be done in a minute.  

Again, I might be missing something obvious about the mechanics though.  So error correction appreciated.

I think a lot of it has to do with where the mechs spawn and where the group decides to engage them. The last time I had that modifier the other 3 people decided to fight the mech in a dead end side room. Enemy flows were garbage and they didn't have the dps to deal with the mech quickly. My ranged weapons were garbage but my melee and frame were decent so I made the decision to move away where I knew I would get a constant flow of enemies so the mission didn't fail. 

If you can engage mechs in a spot with good enemy pathing incidental kills would probably be enough to maintain life support and the mech kill would be beneficial. There isn't a lot of communication or coordination in random squads and most people don't know how to work enemy flows or choose a tile to maximize kps. I've done a lot of long survival missions and am pretty good at quickly accessing a rooms potential. 

[Berzerkules]

1 hour ago, Tiltskillet said:

I haven't studied the mechanics of survival.  But if I'm reading the wiki right, spending 45s killing a Necramech and killing nothing else would result in a loss of 30% LS.  If it does die by the end of that time, you get that 30% back from its 6x LS modules besides making the minimum mission time 45s shorter.  That seems like a pretty good deal. 

Offhand, given that there are going to be some incidental kills during that time too (probably a lot with some builds) it seems like it's got to be worth while if it can be done in a minute.  

Again, I might be missing something obvious about the mechanics though.  So error correction appreciated.

so I just did this weeks EDA and I had 2 people drop on round 1 and the host went afk at the start of round 3. I waited for 5 minutes in case they came back but the timer started. They died, i revived once they died again and I just solo the mission to complete it. 

Anyways, I didn't focus on mechs at all I just incidentally killed a few in the cross fire. I got the 6x life support drops but the timer did not go down on kill. idk if it's a bug or what. I killed one with 33 seconds left in the mission and timer stayed at 33. It should have ran out the timer right there. mission complete

I didn't really need the drops from mech since life support never got below 70%. What I do find weird is I got about the same amount of kills as last time at ~700 and it was more than enough to maintain life support. 700kills in 10 minutes of SP survival and you are hitting towers. That's not a sustainable kps average. Honestly I think life support capsules drop more frequently in EDA .

Edited June 11 by Berzerkules

[Lord_Drod]

22 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

Anyways, I didn't focus on mechs at all I just incidentally killed a few in the cross fire. I got the 6x life support drops but the timer did not go down on kill. idk if it's a bug or what. I killed one with 33 seconds left in the mission and timer stayed at 33. It should have ran out the timer right there. mission complete

I didn't really need the drops from mech since life support never got below 70%. What I do find weird is I got about the same amount of kills as last time at ~700 and it was more than enough to maintain life support. 700kills in 10 minutes of SP survival and you are hitting towers. That's not a sustainable kps average. Honestly I think life support capsules drop more frequently in EDA .

Only the summoned eximus mechs lower the mission timer and they don't always drop LS.  The 90 second mechs always drop LS.  LS drops from containers and there's lots of those.

[Zakkhar]

53 minutes ago, Berzerkules said:

I got the 6x life support drops but the timer did not go down on kill. idk if it's a bug or what. I killed one with 33 seconds left in the mission and timer stayed at 33. It should have ran out the timer right there. mission complete

Timer only goes down from the manually summoned Necramechs (yellow marker).