I'm quiting Warframe because the game doesn't have a second bottom, half of the mechanics are useless at the start and bosses are often torture by boredom (Lephantis, I'm looking at you).

[Lazar0991]

1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

>The sunk cost fallacy is a term used to describe that tendency for someone to keep investing in something due to already having done it before, hence the sunk cost. Free to play designers know that the goal is to get someone to spend money one time—even if it is just a dollar. Once someone has invested into a free to play game, they are more willing to do it again, and more importantly, keep playing.

>When we usually talk about the sunk cost fallacy it has to do with spending money, as that is the popular interpretation, but this can also apply to time. For someone who does not want to spend money, there is always the option of spending time. Resources can be earned by repeating content already done, or constantly logging in to repeat a task.

But of course, Warframe will never do this, the developers are holy people who only need water and bread, and they will never use known psychological tricks to milk and keep players around.

[dwqrf]

il y a 15 minutes, Lazar0991 a dit :

But of course, Warframe will never do this, the developers are holy people who only need water and bread, and they will never use known psychological tricks to milk and keep players around.

Thank you from saving us from another evil corporation then ! You are truly blessed. Wishing you the best, Tenno.

[Geometries62]

7 часов назад, Lazar0991 сказал:

Good for new players is to have fun from the start. I don't see how Warframe is fun for someone who wants to use warframe abilities from the start or have room to experiment with builds. And Waframe also fails as a horde shooter, and there's no random gear drop like Diablo. So what is this game about?

To have fun in early game you must obtain essential mods for frame and weapons. From missions or trade doesn't matter. As for horde aspect there is Steel Path for that. 

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

19 hours ago, dwqrf said:

Hmmm... I don't know; I don't think that guy is writing much of anything anymore.

[sXeth]

On 2024-09-12 at 6:17 AM, dwqrf said:

Considering you didn't get out of the tutorial and that you are still playing content from 2013-2015, it's not a surprise you might find it a bit old, teious and boring.

You didn't experience 1% of what Warframe is about. The devs learnt with time and made better content.

You opinion is valid, but a bit biased, and quite superficial.

I hope you would give it a fair try.

To be fair, that wasteland of dull, tedious uninteresting content that no one ever goes back to outside of an alert is the New Player Experience. The whole purpose of this forum is about improving it.

It gets better once you get to Second Dream is true, but the 100 odd mandatory nothing nodes before that are the problem 

[dwqrf]

il y a 6 minutes, sXeth a dit :

that wasteland of dull, tedious uninteresting content

For some experienced players (coming from different games), doing the mission type once is enough to grasp its intricacies. And repeating variants of it with a fully net-build while trying to speed run through to the endgame can result in it being boring and tedious ; that's for sure.

But for a lot of inexperienced player, playing the same gamemode but in different environment, with different enemies, at a different level, with different gear, and a different mind set, can be quite challenging and educative.

If you can't do 10 times a interception on 10 different planets featuring 10 different maps with enemy variety, or are you supposed to handle the ultimate grind asking you to do 1000 time the same mission type, for mods, relics, resource and xp ?

If one is already bored when discovering the game and all it has to offer, then maybe it isn't a game for them, as in ; once discovered and then mastered, what's going to be the fun ot it ?

[sXeth]

1 hour ago, dwqrf said:

For some experienced players (coming from different games), doing the mission type once is enough to grasp its intricacies. And repeating variants of it with a fully net-build while trying to speed run through to the endgame can result in it being boring and tedious ; that's for sure.

But for a lot of inexperienced player, playing the same gamemode but in different environment, with different enemies, at a different level, with different gear, and a different mind set, can be quite challenging and educative.

If you can't do 10 times a interception on 10 different planets featuring 10 different maps with enemy variety, or are you supposed to handle the ultimate grind asking you to do 1000 time the same mission type, for mods, relics, resource and xp ?

If one is already bored when discovering the game and all it has to offer, then maybe it isn't a game for them, as in ; once discovered and then mastered, what's going to be the fun ot it ?

You get a lot of repeats across the first 8 planets. You barely even see the Infested, no Sentients, no Murmur. Amalgams don’t show up yet. Grineer make up over half of that being the most indistinct units in the game.

I redid it in July with Excal and then with Volt after the changes. Fresh rank 0 frames. No mods over rank 2, no gold mods. 10 capacity builds. Mk 1 weapons. And no parkour. First run didn’t even drop shields once until a leech eximus on Saturn. The newer more engaging one did uptick a bit and started to have some dips around Ceres (albeit the main contributor was Powerfists rapidly stacking electric procs).

Other then Spy the missions don’t really swap up between planets much. Defense would be the other end where basically no element of it changes other then the background until Uranus.

Grinding out a build or an endgame is an entirely different mindset. You have seen the show, you have a target and a clear goal. You’re already committed. The first eight right now in Warframe is a tutorial quest or two then a big empty series of missions devoid of context, narratively or gameplay wise. Hinging on people either telling the new player “oh hey the story starts here eventually” or trying to preemptively dangle the deeper gameplay elements as a goal to chase well before the new player could even conceivably begin to implement any part of them.

Edited Thursday at 01:48 PM by sXeth

[(NSW)Lt.Hammershmit]

I'm right there with you.  After suffering 2 hours in the new war I'm about to quit this game forever. The fact that you're stuck in this pos level and can't get out is beyond annoying

[blitzcrasher2]

On 2024-09-12 at 7:09 AM, Lazar0991 said:

How cute that you thought I was a new player. But no, I've been playing since the early 2000s, and that's the problem. Because I know better. But don't let this confuse you, I already understood that you are one of the "white knights" who perceive fair criticism as an attack on the game. Well, as already was said above, Warframe is a game for boomers and new players are not welcome if they dare to openly point out flaws, I understand, I'm moving on.

That's amazing. You've been playing Warframe since the early 2000s? As a founder please tell me what it was like playing the game before it even started development. If you are going to lie at least don't make it obvious. The game is super easy for new players to get into. You clearly just don't understand a game that you can't cheat at, buy your way through or play idle. Warframe requires you to actually learn the game. But as a pre development player you should know that already. Surely you know that there are tons of ways to deal with energy early on and beat weak bosses like lephantis. Unless you never actually made it out of the tutorial. 

[(XBOX)arTApophis]

The game is easy to get into, but requires effort to unlock new mechanics and advanced options. Experimenting with builds is part of the end game. If all these options were available from the start then every player is done in a few hours.

If you don't want to put in effort, you are out of luck and you are better of playing battle royal games where everyone has access to everything on equal terms when you jump of the bus.

[jorshrc2024]

On 2024-09-19 at 10:50 PM, blitzcrasher2 said:

That's amazing. You've been playing Warframe since the early 2000s? As a founder please tell me what it was like playing the game before it even started development. If you are going to lie at least don't make it obvious. The game is super easy for new players to get into. You clearly just don't understand a game that you can't cheat at, buy your way through or play idle. Warframe requires you to actually learn the game. But as a pre development player you should know that already. Surely you know that there are tons of ways to deal with energy early on and beat weak bosses like lephantis. Unless you never actually made it out of the tutorial. 

He was a gamer since the early 2000s, not a Warframe player. Idk why he said player.

Edited 22 hours ago by jorshrc2024

[jorshrc2024]

On 2024-09-12 at 2:58 PM, Lazar0991 said:

Because it's boring and monotonous, and it's too easy, and at the same time the game doesn't let me play with the toys that lured me in - there isn't enough energy to use warframes, and parkour is useless. All that remains is to point the weapon in the general direction of enemy bodies and kill them with one shot. And yes, this is the norm for a horde shooter game, but normal horde shooters have a lot more enemies at the beginning and there are special enemies. Although talking to you, I realized that the game is clearly not for me, as someone who enjoyed Payday 2 and Vermintide 2, I clearly made a mistake when I thought that Warframe would be the same, unfortunately the game did not warn me that the target audience is supercasual who see wasting time on a boring activity as a challenge.

Normal Star-Chart is boring AF. Enemy density is way too low and none of the enemies survive even a gust of wind. You're stuck in this hellhole until you complete all of the mission nodes, of which there are about 270. That's when you unlock the Steel Path. Steel Path Star-Chart is much better. Enemy density is much higher (the game now acts as if there are always 4 players in your squad regardless of actual squad size), and you actually need to build your gear somewhat competently. However, if your builds are good enough, the enemies still get absolutely dunked on. You get miniboss units when you play steel path. They spawn every 5 minutes. They pose somewhat of a challenge in the beginning. They become mere nuisances when you get good enough builds though. Because of this, Warframe goes from 1-on-1 shooter to how-many-warcrimes-can-you-commit simulator. 

[(PSN)ErydisTheLucario]

Just based off a few replies, it's clear you hate the game and the community. You're free to just leave instead of being hostile just because someone isn't saying what you want to hear. You're feedback isn't wrong, you're just toxic and it's getting lost in all the toxicity. You accused one user of being smug, and here you are quite literally acting as though only your opinion matters and that you know more than everyone else. Come back down to earth bud, you're not God, you're not anyone of importance. You're just a salty random mad at a looter shooter for being a looter shooter.

Edited 22 hours ago by (PSN)ErydisTheLucario

[Dr_Mechano]

I will point out that the person posting that thread is LONG GONE, their last visit was back in september. So it looks like they followed through with their whole 'quitting the game' thing.

Warframes biggest problem unfortunately stems from the Steve era, content bloat with the Steve seemingly obsessed with "Warframe content that isn't playing your Warframe", Railjack, Necramechs, the New War. Duviri is the last vestige of this design idea and we were promised it wouldn't become a 'content island' like all the other content...and would you look at that all but the Circuit becomes largely useless only begrudingly done if you need the materials for Incarnon genesis. All content that basically ends in dead ends.

We also had the problem of them pushing Open Worlds to the point it hit playerbase fatigue and whilst thankfully a lot of that content has been revisted and nerfed in terms of items needed (Little Duck only needs 1 of each toroid for rank up, Solaris United had their bonds requirements massively nerfed), some like the Quills require a frankly absurd number of Eidolon kills to reach rank 5 (50) whilst the Cetus bounties offer nothing competitive to Zariman or Sanctum bounties, a max star, non-steel path bounty offers 400 endo whilst the same one in the Sanctum is offering 2000 endo.

Not only that but Steve mentioned how the new tutorial didn't help them retain players and I'm assuming Duviri didn't either because, once again, beyond the basics nothing is explained. The new players open the mod screen and...that's it, figure that out for yourself with only the barest of explanation to 'slot 4 mods', no mention of how slotting aura mods increases the number of available mod slots on warframes and melee weapons, meaning most poeple don't bother equipping their stance mods. Also the original system of starting new players with the Flawed mods was downright bad but thankfully that DID get corrected.

Apparently the 1999 update is going to try to help rectify a lot of this or at least some of it and make the New Player experience better....hopefully this isn't another Duviri situation again where the new players get silo'd off into a content island.

[Xzorn]

What the heck does 'Second bottom' mean?

You aren't really wrong though. The game has been 'stupified' from it's original design, damage / status system, damage modifiers most recently. Aiming is optional and instead of meaningful enemies they just decided to spawn 10x as much fodder. Plenty of half implemented or aborted ideas too.

It's nothing new for the par though. They've been doing for years. I remember when DE kept saying "The New direction of Warframe" like a catchphrase and I smirked every time I heard it because that's something the game has never had. A defined development direction or a target audience.

It is sad to see a game I used to drop 30 hours a week into drop to 3 hours due to design choices though.

[Drollive94]

On 2024-09-12 at 6:42 AM, Lazar0991 said:

Your answer only shows that DE does not care about new players. If the developers know that the early game is bad and don't do anything about it, it just shows where their priorities are. If they don't want to spend time rebalancing starting stages it means they are only interested in milking old players instead of attracting new ones.

While i agree that the new players experience is not very good (a valid criticism) this is a game that requires patience, you WILL find ways to fix your energy problems as you keep finding new mods, just play a little longer

[PR1D3]

Lmao, ok DSP. Your energy problem is a non problem as you can mod that. They made it where the UI tells you how to do it too. Your mini boss comment, they already do that in the harder areas of the game, which appears that you have yet to reach.  And it’s actually hilarious that you posted that they don’t care about the New User Experience when New Team have been making constant QoL improvements to it ever since they took over. Every update for a good while now has sweeping QoL changes that makes a lot less cumbersome to do. This has to be trolling or DSP/game journo level of awareness.

[RichardKam]

2024/9/20 AM3点50分 , blitzcrasher2 说:

That's amazing. You've been playing Warframe since the early 2000s? As a founder please tell me what it was like playing the game before it even started development. If you are going to lie at least don't make it obvious. The game is super easy for new players to get into. You clearly just don't understand a game that you can't cheat at, buy your way through or play idle. Warframe requires you to actually learn the game. But as a pre development player you should know that already. Surely you know that there are tons of ways to deal with energy early on and beat weak bosses like lephantis. Unless you never actually made it out of the tutorial. 

Well energy is definitely one of the problem for new players, but I don't think new players need to use a lot of ability to get through regular star chart.

[Raarsi]

Have fun OP!  Don't let the door hit you in the face on the way back in!

[4thBro]

Why am I even catching strays right now

[Rixuel]

did OP complete the second dream quest?

[0_The_F00l]

A little bit of default energy regen would actually help , as much as energy siphon perhaps.

This would help reduce some of the feast or famine situation.

Players without an optimised loadout are usually left holding their ... Appendage ... in their hand while they wait for energy drops to use their abilities.

Some basic means to use abilities either over a moderate amount of time or on a timer (which can be worked out).

 

[trst]

All of these issues sound like they stem from a lack of progression, and that isn't a new player issue.

Spawns go up with content as they should otherwise new players get overwhelmed. Plus given the age of the game spawn rates already get capped pretty quickly, by Steel Path, and are greatly limited by outdated console hardware.

Energy is a system entirely handled by progression. Generation, efficiency, and even starting energy all increase as you gain access to the options for them. Starting energy in particular is governed by a single specific mod or your excess mod capacity.

Mini bosses and special spawns are systems that exist in specific modes, missions, and via Syndicate/Assassin marks. So, again, a system that opens up with progression.

And primary bosses are only a slog for those, yet again, lacking in progression. And said progression can be acquired while avoiding them.

 

Like this is all very bog standard for gaming as a whole (minus the dumpster fire mobile gaming has created). As you progress through a game you gain more power, options, and challenges. You can't grant all of this to players just starting out else you just invalidate the entire point of progression. You break the game down into something players play for a couple hours, realize they've seen everything and have no goals, then leave.

Edited 11 hours ago by trst

[GEN-Son_17]

On 2024-09-12 at 3:08 AM, Lazar0991 said:

And the worst thing is that all these problems could be fixed by adjusting the process of spawning enemies, correct the amount of energy by default (seriously, why is the amount of energy at the start so small? Who in their right mind could think that this is okay?), rework the levels a little bit and add spawning of minibosses/special enemies so the player have more motivation to use other game systems, and you have a masterpiece. But instead, the game is a mess of different ideas that exist independently of each other. At least at the start, which is so terribly boring that it kills any motivation to continue playing.

You give off the impression that you watched a lot of videos before jumping in. This is the danger of overexposing any entertainment but Warframe is especially susceptible. 

All of the new player experiences are meant to promote full arsenal play, not relying on any one ability or weapon. Lephantis is a typical timed attack boss, just like countless other games. There are a few of this type, as well as direct attack and puzzle types. You will get used to it, or not. 

[Quest]

On 2024-09-12 at 6:09 AM, Lazar0991 said:

Warframe is a game for boomers

You lost me here man. I wanted to hear you out but you didn't actually explain any problems with the game, you just got really angry for no reason and started calling people names.