should energy siphon become a 1.2x energy multiplier?

[Prof-Dante]

If yes: Energy siphon becomes a valid assest to the team, with 4 people in your squad, the multiplier goes to 1.8x, which is slightly higher than an unranked Helminth version of nourish.
since this aura has been outperformed and replaced by energy nexus, changing to a multiplier would bring it back to the fold, maybe even replace the abundance of Nourish.

of course it would stack additively with Nourish to avoid power creep.
a 25 energy orb will give 30
a 50 energy orb will give you 60
a 75 energy orb will give you 90 energy.

energy nexus will go from 3 energy per second to 3.6, so it's the same as it and the current energy siphon when combined.
the other aura, Dreamer's, will have a 1.10x energy multiplier, making Warframes like Jade an amazing energy support.

 

If not: Well if not, I think stuff like this needs to be addressed. the energy economy in Warframe is so weird, you either have too much of it, or none at all, and sometimes you got to invest in some weird mods, like Preparation, just to get an effect that should be there in the first place.

Can energy become more so like MMOs? being always at max energy, and having a passive energy regen only when out of combat (aka not getting hit for more than a few seconds).
enemies always drop miniature energy Orbs.
while completely reworking all the energy mods and tools in the game?

[Zakkhar]

12 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

Energy siphon becomes a valid assest to the team, with 4 people in your squad, the multiplier goes to 1.8x, which is slightly higher than an unranked Helminth version of nourish.

It is fixed amount of energy per second. It is not Equilibrium. And should never be.

Base amount of Energy regeneration is 0 as Energy does not naturally regenerate.

+0.6 results in 0,6 energy per second (within 10 seconds you get 6 energy).

Edited yesterday at 08:29 AM by Zakkhar

[Zakkhar]

11 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

since this aura has been outperformed and replaced by energy nexus

No it wasnt. Energy Nexus is not an Aura mod.

12 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

changing to a multiplier would bring it back to the fold, maybe even replace the abundance of Nourish.

Making an Aura mod as powerful as most popular subsumable ability? What could go wrong?

[Prof-Dante]

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

No it wasnt. Energy Nexus is not an Aura mod.

Making an Aura mod as powerful as most popular subsumable ability? What could go wrong?

as powerful?

[Prof-Dante]

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

as Energy does not naturally regenerate.

When did I ever say here that it did?

[dwqrf]

il y a 23 minutes, Prof-Dante a dit :

When did I ever say here that it did?

Well, starting players with Dreamer's aura or energy siphon would really struggle if it was a energy multiplier and not a energy gain. Because multiplying 0 during long missions where they just break crates and visit maps wouldn't give them anything (energy orbs are quite rare).

I really enjoy energy nexus, but let's not forget it's a "endgame" mod.

I do think Dreamer's and siphon are quite weak, but it's auras that can be stacked, and it's early game, does function as intended, and push players to be curious and find better alternatives (zenurik for years, equilibrium combos later, nourish with helminth, and now energy nexus).

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

2 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

If yes: Energy siphon becomes a valid assest to the team, with 4 people in your squad, the multiplier goes to 1.8x, which is slightly higher than an unranked Helminth version of nourish.
since this aura has been outperformed and replaced by energy nexus, changing to a multiplier would bring it back to the fold, maybe even replace the abundance of Nourish.

of course it would stack additively with Nourish to avoid power creep.
a 25 energy orb will give 30
a 50 energy orb will give you 60
a 75 energy orb will give you 90 energy.

energy nexus will go from 3 energy per second to 3.6, so it's the same as it and the current energy siphon when combined.
the other aura, Dreamer's, will have a 1.10x energy multiplier, making Warframes like Jade an amazing energy support.

 

If not: Well if not, I think stuff like this needs to be addressed. the energy economy in Warframe is so weird, you either have too much of it, or none at all, and sometimes you got to invest in some weird mods, like Preparation, just to get an effect that should be there in the first place.

Can energy become more so like MMOs? being always at max energy, and having a passive energy regen only when out of combat (aka not getting hit for more than a few seconds).
enemies always drop miniature energy Orbs.
while completely reworking all the energy mods and tools in the game?

I think it has a place as is. 

[Genitive]

I don't think it should be buffed. You could consider it an early-game mod when you don't have access to better options yet. It works fine together with energy orbs.

[Prof-Dante]

6 minutes ago, Genitive said:

I don't think it should be buffed. You could consider it an early-game mod when you don't have access to better options yet. It works fine together with energy orbs.

So are you guys trying to say Energy siphon to Zenurik is what fractured redirection is to primed redirection?

[dwqrf]

il y a 4 minutes, Prof-Dante a dit :

So are you guys trying to say Energy siphon to Zenurik is what fractured redirection is to primed redirection?

Yes, kind of. But siphon still find uses due to its polarity, passive squad effect (also affecting Archwing), and not being exclusives to other mods or energy generation tools. Siphon will be multiplied by nourish as well.

Speaking of which, I wouldn't mind having Primed Auras.

[quxier]

3 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

Can energy become more so like MMOs? being always at max energy, and having a passive energy regen only when out of combat (aka not getting hit for more than a few seconds).
enemies always drop miniature energy Orbs.
while completely reworking all the energy mods and tools in the game?

+1

3 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

If yes: Energy siphon becomes a valid assest to the team, with 4 people in your squad, the multiplier goes to 1.8x, which is slightly higher than an unranked Helminth version of nourish.
since this aura has been outperformed and replaced by energy nexus, changing to a multiplier would bring it back to the fold, maybe even replace the abundance of Nourish.

of course it would stack additively with Nourish to avoid power creep.
a 25 energy orb will give 30
a 50 energy orb will give you 60
a 75 energy orb will give you 90 energy.

energy nexus will go from 3 energy per second to 3.6, so it's the same as it and the current energy siphon when combined.
the other aura, Dreamer's, will have a 1.10x energy multiplier, making Warframes like Jade an amazing energy support.

I would still prefer energy regen. Dreamer's bond & Energy siphon should be buffed. Energy siphon should give 1/2 of Energy siphon energy. Dreamer's bond 1/3 of Energy siphon. Who thought that 0.3 or 0.6 energy per second is "good enough". That's joke. That could probably be excused in early game (Energy siphon) but we have recently gotten Dreamer's bond with silly 0.3. I was even giving Energy nexus FOR FREE (for MR <10; it's cheap but low level player may not yet have access to plat) to combat very small number of Dreamer's bond. _{No one wanted it.}

1 hour ago, Genitive said:

I don't think it should be buffed. You could consider it an early-game mod when you don't have access to better options yet. It works fine together with energy orbs.

LIke, yeah, 42 seconds to get 25 energy. IT DOESN'T WORK WELL WITH ENERGY ORBS

[Prof-Dante]

13 minutes ago, quxier said:

+1

I would still prefer energy regen. Dreamer's bond & Energy siphon should be buffed. Energy siphon should give 1/2 of Energy siphon energy. Dreamer's bond 1/3 of Energy siphon. Who thought that 0.3 or 0.6 energy per second is "good enough". That's joke. That could probably be excused in early game (Energy siphon) but we have recently gotten Dreamer's bond with silly 0.3. I was even giving Energy nexus FOR FREE (for MR <10; it's cheap but low level player may not yet have access to plat) to combat very small number of Dreamer's bond. _{No one wanted it.}

LIke, yeah, 42 seconds to get 25 energy. IT DOESN'T WORK WELL WITH ENERGY ORBS

with the amount of naysayers here, I'm actually surprised and relieved someone is at least agreeing with some of my points.

I mean you can't just look at how unbalanced the energy economy in this game is and call it perfect.

 

sure not every tool should be equalized, but the bar has to be a little bit down for other energy sources to shine.

like seriously in a game where we have a mod that generates 0.6 energy per second, and an ability that gives you 5 energy per second for FREE for EVER, I wonder why players still think that's fine.

[Genitive]

15 minutes ago, quxier said:

LIke, yeah, 42 seconds to get 25 energy. IT DOESN'T WORK WELL WITH ENERGY ORBS

Yes, they do work fine with energy orbs. If you pick up an orb and you're missing 1 point to cast an ability, then energy siphon can help with that. It's not really that hard to imagine, is it? 

Nobody is asking you to wait around for the mod to generate a bunch of energy.

[dwqrf]

il y a 26 minutes, Prof-Dante a dit :

with the amount of naysayers here, I'm actually surprised and relieved someone is at least agreeing with some of my points.

I mean you can't just look at how unbalanced the energy economy in this game is and call it perfect.

 

sure not every tool should be equalized, but the bar has to be a little bit down for other energy sources to shine.

like seriously in a game where we have a mod that generates 0.6 energy per second, and an ability that gives you 5 energy per second for FREE for EVER, I wonder why players still think that's fine.

I do agree that energy generation across the board may seem unbalanced. But we may also consider that x4 siphon grant the whole squad 2.4 energy regen per second, with infinite duration, infinite range, and no conditions whatsoever ; while energy well is limited to switching to operator, operator energy to cast (and time), limited range, and limited duration (and that makes it unreliable to affect the whole squad at all time); and that nexus is only limited to self and take a important mod slot. 

So overall, energy siphon can be moslty considered "free", "absolute" while also unconditonnal.

Also, siphon can be aquired much much earlier than operator, and that's where it shines the most (pre-Sedna).

Of course, after that it's a bit lame, but like most auras, to be honest. When energy problem is solved, then growing power is for me the best in slot for frames relying most on spells, and that's better on paper but yet still another conditionnal also limited in time.

Of course, my point of view is from squad play and not solo play.

[quxier]

44 minutes ago, Prof-Dante said:

1 hour ago, quxier said:

+1

I would still prefer energy regen. Dreamer's bond & Energy siphon should be buffed. Energy siphon should give 1/2 of Energy siphon energy. Dreamer's bond 1/3 of Energy siphon. Who thought that 0.3 or 0.6 energy per second is "good enough". That's joke. That could probably be excused in early game (Energy siphon) but we have recently gotten Dreamer's bond with silly 0.3. I was even giving Energy nexus FOR FREE (for MR <10; it's cheap but low level player may not yet have access to plat) to combat very small number of Dreamer's bond. _{No one wanted it.}

LIke, yeah, 42 seconds to get 25 energy. IT DOESN'T WORK WELL WITH ENERGY ORBS

Expand  

with the amount of naysayers here, I'm actually surprised and relieved someone is at least agreeing with some of my points.

I mean you can't just look at how unbalanced the energy economy in this game is and call it perfect.

 

sure not every tool should be equalized, but the bar has to be a little bit down for other energy sources to shine.

like seriously in a game where we have a mod that generates 0.6 energy per second, and an ability that gives you 5 energy per second for FREE for EVER, I wonder why players still think that's fine.

Yeah, like all talks about rivens or AFK (e.g. my recent Limbo post).

44 minutes ago, Genitive said:

1 hour ago, quxier said:

LIke, yeah, 42 seconds to get 25 energy. IT DOESN'T WORK WELL WITH ENERGY ORBS

Yes, they do work fine with energy orbs. If you pick up an orb and you're missing 1 point to cast an ability, then energy siphon can help with that. It's not really that hard to imagine, is it? 

Well, I can imagine this 1 in thousand situation.

46 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Nobody is asking you to wait around for the mod to generate a bunch of energy.

Yeah, so I would rather not use this useless mod.

 

[lukinu_u]

Since Physique is outperformed by Vitality, we might as well remove it and add the 20% health it would provide to Vitality for a total 120% increase ? Same for any Aura that provide a raw stat also provided by mods ?

Absolutely not. Aura are a different set of mods. They provide overall weaker stats, but for the entire team in a unique slot per player. It is not meant to completely replace any existing mod, it just adds a little bonus that can add up to a lot if the whole team sync up, and sometimes provides unique effects (like Energy Siphon previously).

[-ShadowRadiance-]

adding my voice to the 'no' group. 

2 hours ago, dwqrf said:

I wouldn't mind having Primed Auras.

This on the other hand....

[Aruquae]

1.2 seems too much, I think 1 energy per second would be quite balanced. I use energy siphon as my sole battery for high efficiency frames. Of course, most auras are small bonuses due to the fact that we're supposed to collaborate and combine aura mods with other people (insert lol here). 

[4thBro]

10 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

No it wasnt. Energy Nexus is not an Aura mod.

Making an Aura mod as powerful as most popular subsumable ability? What could go wrong?

Brief Respite is instant shield gate capability.

And you're worried about Energy Siphon being better than giving you more than 1 spell per mission.

[4thBro]

9 hours ago, dwqrf said:

Well, starting players with Dreamer's aura or energy siphon would really struggle if it was a energy multiplier and not a energy gain. Because multiplying 0 during long missions where they just break crates and visit maps wouldn't give them anything (energy orbs are quite rare).

I really enjoy energy nexus, but let's not forget it's a "endgame" mod.

I do think Dreamer's and siphon are quite weak, but it's auras that can be stacked, and it's early game, does function as intended, and push players to be curious and find better alternatives (zenurik for years, equilibrium combos later, nourish with helminth, and now energy nexus).

I get what you're saying, but keep in mind:

 

The differentiation between early game and late game strength is supposed to be rank/endo investment in said mod, rather than the mods' full capability in general. There's not "early game mods," but every mod IS early game when you're IN early game, because you can't afford to rank it up much.

That's the early balance.

[trst]

I disagree.

The current version serves as a way to get energy while lacking orb drops and other sources. Making it an energy multiplier just makes it a "win more" option than only helps as a secondary addition.

If the mod is to be buffed I'd say just increasing the regen to 1e/s would suffice.

 

Though the multiplier idea would make for an interesting addition as a new Aura.

[Quest]

energy nexus comes from the current final area of the game which is probably why it has the stats it does, much like the radiation mods

no it is not better than nourish lol

[dwqrf]

il y a 1 minute, trst a dit :

I disagree.

The current version serves as a way to get energy while lacking orb drops and other sources. Making it an energy multiplier just makes it a "win more" option than only helps as a secondary addition.

If the mod is to be buffed I'd say just increasing the regen to 1e/s would suffice.

 

Though the multiplier idea would make for an interesting addition as a new Aura.

Buffing Energy Siphon to 1e/s is almost a +100% buff, that's a bit too much ; and 4e/s for the squad would make any other energy generation irrelevant ; imo.

But I'd love to see something like a [Primed Energy Siphon], that could be the best of both worlds. Like "+0,5e/s, also grant +10% energy gain from all sources". (granting by itself slighty less than Energy Siphon (0,55), but buffing to orbs 27,5). That's be cool.

4 Primed Energy Siphon would grant base 2e/s and +40% energy gain ; so a total passive of 2,8e/s, and buffing orbs from 25 to 35.

It would make a great combo with Equilibrium, Zenurik, or Nexus ; while also being independant.

[Zakkhar]

5 hours ago, 4thBro said:

And you're worried about Energy Siphon being better than giving you more than 1 spell per mission.

I am not worried, I just see you do not understand the function of it. It is there to give you Ability cast where there would be no ability cast. You got no Zenurik, low kils (or no kills) and you want to be able to cast an ability. Lets say you run Invisibility Loki, it lets you recast his Cloak every time it runs out without relying on Orb drops. In early missions enemies are scarce and orbs are even scarcer. Orb drop gives you 25 energy, what if your ability costs 26 or 28? You cant cast it, until you get another Orb drop and even then you can cast it only once and you need to wait for third Orb to cast it second time.

Yes, people run Energy Nexus now, but you only reason they do is because they get it gifted/buy, while Siphon is an aura and doesnt interfere with any builds and cant be obtained really early in the game without relying on other players. But you can still run both or just one depending on your needs. Plus it unlike Energy Nexus it affects your teammates too.

[Binket_]

Casual reminder to folks that Coaction Drift exists.
Boost the potency of your own Aura, increases the effects of incoming Auras.

You bunch should REALLY use it more often.

 

20 hours ago, Prof-Dante said:

since this aura has been outperformed and replaced by energy nexus

This is the only part of that that I can really give anything useful on.

Energy Nexus really is odd. It's a boost of energy that does more than double that of Energy Siphon.
Some may say "But that's for the entire squad"-- but you're either gonna need a LOT more than that or you have too much to effectively use anyway.

Granted, while it is an Aura? We have a LOT of useful Auras now as an alternative. Usually in other polarities, but that's what Forma is for.
I often opt for Enemy Radar in Naramon if anything. We've gotten to a point where seeing bigger areas on your map is more important than damage.
Otherwise, I almost always run Growing Power. It's always active and it's a +25% Ability Strength.

Some run Steel Charge for the extra Mod space.
Some run Combat Discipline to activate other Mods or Arcanes.
Hell, some even use really odd ones like Swift Momentum for Glaives.

 

But the biggest thing about Auras is that all of them are used rather selfishly.
Think about it, there's only truly two Selfless Auras that only benefit teammates.
The rest are usually used because "they benefit the user the most and it's the only thing to go in that slot."

It's also why universally beneficial Auras like Growing Power are generally the most powerful.
There's next to no downside for Growing Power in a squad. You are ALWAYS going to want that.
... but very rarely are people going to see use in Rejuvenation or EMP Aura.

 

Auras can be made to fix not only themselves, but another issue players have been making:
Proximity. Players often fail to stick together unless there's a dedicated plan to stay really close together, usually in idling.

Auras being locked to Affinity Radius (or a set distance) to apply their effects would be ideal.
This not only allows DE to justify making stronger effects due to a bigger limitation, but also encourage more teamwork.
You want crazy effects? Play nice, play well.

Though I suppose some "Lesser Auras" could still be applicable for the Solo players.
^{But I'm pretty sure most "Solo" players exist because they can't stand how nobody can work together. With time and a guiding hand? That could change.}