Dev Workshop: Koumei & the Five Fates - Caliban + Nova Rework

[Joezone619]

11 hours ago, Dunkelheit said:

Here is a free Ferrari for everyone!!!
People: But why no Lamborghini?

 

LOL, ok to be fair tho, that is kinda DE's own fault for making caliban one of the most annoying and difficult to farm for. As they said themselves, they need people to actually play caliban to see if they did a good job, and the 2 people that currently use him aren't enough XD

[Destroyahx87]

14 minutes ago, (XBOX)Veytok said:

Massive nerf to one of the 2 things he did well. All these changes mean nothing to me now because of this. Absolutely downgraded

Downgraded is an overreaction. While the rework has some issues, I can definitely say he's in a better spot with the changes to most of his abilities. His 1, 2, and 3 are all objectively better. The only issue is his 4.

 

The changes to Fusion Strike are good, but for the life of me, I can't understand why they took away the armor strip field. It was very useful and fun. I really hope they bring it back. 

[WhiteBlaze]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)Veytok said:

Massive nerf to one of the 2 things he did well. All these changes mean nothing to me now because of this. Absolutely downgraded

Replace the slam with something else that's based of the myth of wukong, something better then a slam, but fit's his kit while still being usable for current day content. Like say idk... the ability to transform into the form of either his target or one of his team mates - similar to how those corpus pricks in the index do - it would allow wukong players to go unnoticed by enemies while transformed into an enemy. AND when used on a squad member, it would temporarily give wukong the abilities of his team mate while he takes their form. The transformation wouldn't be permanent, but would be effected by duration mods.

It would be a new mechanic that's based in the source material - as Son Wu Kong was known for his 72 transformations.

It would also stick to WuKong's trickster nature, be potentially MUCH BETTER THEN SPAM SLAM; and would make for some great synergy with team mates on the fly when just one isn't enough to fulfill the role in a squad.

 

That and it would probably be easier to do then giving him 72 separate transformations, and I imagine it would be easier to code in considering it would be like the player becames replaced by a temporary specter they directly control, Lmao.

[sXeth]

1 hour ago, Destroyahx87 said:

 

I think this debate here has a truth somewhere in the middle. Caliban's original kit design wasn't intending him to be a weapons platform, he was meant to get damage by Razor Gyre. With sentient Wrath and Fusion Strike being tools to increase that damage to goof proportions.

 

Obviously, this wasn't the case cause Razor Gyre sucked. So he was sorta pushed and forced into a weapons platform frame by force. Just off the fact that his main damage dealing ability wasn't good. So he was sorta a mix between both. 

Id argue he was CC/Support (damage booster via debuff).

Inherently  supports support themselves too, of course. So yeah a damage booster can do damage. But his big thing was stripping defences with 4 and applying vulnerability with his 2  (the only frame that had both options without Helminth fiddling). Basically stopping dudes cold and making them eat anywhere from 2-20x more effective damage reliably in a 30m or more radius.

He generally compared most easily to Nova. Boosting damage and CCing in a big radial area. With slightly better tanking since his DR worked on shields while hers didn’t, and with a more passive regen from his 3.

Him losing his radial stripping field and having only one shield regen dude (with a couple of taunt drones which is nice but tends to be janky) while she gained full functional DR with recasting and newfound room for power strength to helminth in an a strip power and orb sustains actually puts him in a very rough spot. He still can slightly outdo her vulnerability (though exploding adds an extra AoE damage component) but doesn’t match up on sustain at all. (And his only real gain was Tau status, taking 10 procs to hard cap at half the value of a Citrine or Dante with no other power that capitalizes anyways.)

[Lohillus]

5 minutes ago, Destroyahx87 said:

Downgraded is an overreaction. While the rework has some issues, I can definitely say he's in a better spot with the changes to most of his abilities. His 1, 2, and 3 are all objectively better. The only issue is his 4.

 

The changes to Fusion Strike are good, but for the life of me, I can't understand why they took away the armor strip field. It was very useful and fun. I really hope they bring it back. 

As someone who plays caliban almost exclusively I will say outside of his 2 this rework is a straight downgrade which will give him neither lasting appeal to new players and also likely alienate previous players since they removed what people liked about him. Tau status as it sounds simply isn't worthwhile to make up for losing so much and spreading what he can already do across several choices instead of having access to them all at once. Maybe if tau also increases status DAMAGE it'll be good but status chance on a 10% chance per stack with non-refreshing durations is garbage, its basically nothing and only his one summon type seems able to apply it reliably and his OTHER summon type is the only part of his kit that can remotely make use of it.

[VoidArkhangel]

About Caliban

The new 1 and 2 looks perfect but his 3 and 4...

His 3rd. The shield regen being exclusive to the Choralysts is bad since for high level content you would be using the Summulyst 90% of the time swapping to Ortholysts to proc Tau for a bit and then swapping back to Summulyst to keep you alive while Conculysts are left completely to the side, they hit hard and are quite tanky but the only thing they have for them is being able to cast Fusion Strike (Summulysts are one of the tankiest if not THE tankiest enemy unit in the game excluding bosses and Ortholysts are also really tanky)  wich leaves us with the next problem:

His 4th. Taking the defense strip field out leaves this as a weird mix between Convectrix and Qorvex's 4th but you can't hold it for max damage like Convectrix's beams nor use a tool for damaging/proccing in a radius like Qorvex with his pillars, I'd say it needs to at least have a vortex after the final explosion wich also strips the defenses from the enemies pulled otherwise anyone could outdamage this beam with a weapon for literally 0 energy.

Edited Saturday at 07:07 PM by VoidArkhangel
Typos

[vFlitz]

Yeah, I have to agree with the people saying this Caliban rework is a huge miss.

The passive practically contributes nothing, you either effectively replace it with adaptation or focus fully on shield-gating, in which case it doesn't move the needle in the slightest. Tau status has no synergy with his abilities whatsoever so it's solely for the sake of weapons or team support.. but Dante does that better, with the birds applying full effect in one hit and also scaling with strength.

Razor Gyre's healing is rather anemic, and dashing into the middle of enemies is ill-advised without a lot of survivability. Sentient Wrath is more productive for applying Tau if you want to do that, so basically the only use this has is spamming to refresh your shield gate, and there's other ways do that.

Splitting Progeny's functionality into 3 different units basically locks people into using Summulysts unless they want to manually babysit their shield gate, which is rather tedious. Also kinda weird how Choralysts scale with Range when the other units aren't affected by mods. And, again, when it comes to providing survivability and distracting enemies, Dante does that better.

As for Fusion Strike, 100 base cost damage-dealing abilities with no lingering effects are basically never worth it. Our weapons are too strong, corrosive and heat procs are more or less enough to handle armor now even with no emerald shards, so why would I cast this? Before it used to be at least somewhat unique with the lingering armor strip, now it competes for Helminth fodder with Razor Gyre.

In general I just can't see any use case for Caliban because his overlap with Dante is substantial, and Dante is clearly the superior choice. It's like Excalibur being just a worse Baruuk for the most part.

[Harutomata]

Please consider reworking or buffing Oberon next.

Most of his ability damage falls off because it has no scaling (so his 4th ability also never spawns health orbs because it never actually defeats anything on SP even if it works as an armor strip), his heals are less efficient than Wisp's, and the bonus armor is questionable with how low amount of warframes now rely on shields instead of HP to survive even on base SP.

[WhiteBlaze]

5 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

Yeah, I have to agree with the people saying this Caliban rework is a huge miss.

The passive practically contributes nothing, you either effectively replace it with adaptation or focus fully on shield-gating, in which case it doesn't move the needle in the slightest. Tau status has no synergy with his abilities whatsoever so it's solely for the sake of weapons or team support.. but Dante does that better, with the birds applying full effect in one hit and also scaling with strength.

Razor Gyre's healing is rather anemic, and dashing into the middle of enemies is ill-advised without a lot of survivability. Sentient Wrath is more productive for applying Tau if you want to do that, so basically the only use this has is spamming to refresh your shield gate, and there's other ways do that.

Splitting Progeny's functionality into 3 different units basically locks people into using Summulysts unless they want to manually babysit their shield gate, which is rather tedious. Also kinda weird how Choralysts scale with Range when the other units aren't affected by mods. And, again, when it comes to providing survivability and distracting enemies, Dante does that better.

As for Fusion Strike, 100 base cost damage-dealing abilities with no lingering effects are basically never worth it. Our weapons are too strong, corrosive and heat procs are more or less enough to handle armor now even with no emerald shards, so why would I cast this? Before it used to be at least somewhat unique with the lingering armor strip, now it competes for Helminth fodder with Razor Gyre.

In general I just can't see any use case for Caliban because his overlap with Dante is substantial, and Dante is clearly the superior choice. It's like Excalibur being just a worse Baruuk for the most part.

After reading all this, I predict his prodeny is going to need a agument mod that let's you summon one of each unit type all at once rather then cycling between the different unit types to summon. Just an opinion though as someone who enjoyed the old level 69 beat stick drones his caliban summoned in on a power strength build. Lol

[PlasmaPsychosis]

The one thing I don't like about the Caliban rework so far is the removal of the AoE Armor Strip on Fusion Strike. Pablo's reasoning for the swap makes sense, but the AoE armor strip does not need to go away in order to make Fusion Strike into a sensible DPS ability. In terms of utility, this is a hard nerf for Caliban's 4. We already have a lot of extremely powerful 4th abilities that can do more than what this upcoming Fusion Strike changes allow, so why not let Caliban be able to DPS and armor strip in an AoE?

A mostly great rework, but I see no reason for Caliban to lose his AoE armor strip. If DE is afraid of non-LoS depandant fullstrip + DPS on one ability, Emerald Archon shards shouldn't have undone the nerfs to Saryn's 1 (Corrosive Status).

[MoonYuTsu]

34 minutes ago, Destroyahx87 said:

Downgraded is an overreaction. While the rework has some issues, I can definitely say he's in a better spot with the changes to most of his abilities. His 1, 2, and 3 are all objectively better. The only issue is his 4.

 

The changes to Fusion Strike are good, but for the life of me, I can't understand why they took away the armor strip field. It was very useful and fun. I really hope they bring it back. 

I've said my piece earlier in this thread, but his 3 isn't objectively better if you give it somethought for a bit - the functionality that his 3 currently gives is basically being split between two of the possible summons in this rework. 
 

• Current Version of his 3: You want damage dealers, aggro pullers and shield generators? That's what the ability does. (you can sort of make them status spreaders with some Helminthing, but since that's Helminth I'll ignore that, it's not a main part of the ability
• Rework Version of his 3: You want damage dealers? You use the Conculysts. You want status spreaders? You use the Ortholysts. You want Shield Regen and aggro pullers? You use the Summulyst. 

Given Shield Tanking is one of Current Caliban's actually really strong points and how he survives in higher level content, you're basically going to be forced to use the Summulyst as enemy levels rise, or you'll just get run over - this is pretty problematic. Also I'm pretty sure DE have said (maybe it was even Pablo himself) that "Ability Wheel" abilities like new Lethal Progeny are something they don't like... so it's kind of odd they're reworking Caliban to give him one, and showing one of the problems with said wheels in the process.... 
 
Some people have suggested an Augment that summons one of each, which would alleviate the issue... but as long as the Shield Regen is locked to the Summulyst, an Augment like that will just end up being one of those "Bandaid Augments that does what the ability should've in the first place" things (ensure you always have regen from your summons). The problem should just be addressed on the ability itself, rather than making a Bandaid augment.

Edited Saturday at 07:21 PM by MoonYuTsu
Adding some info

[dwqrf]

il y a 49 minutes, Joezone619 a dit :

LOL, ok to be fair tho, that is kinda DE's own fault for making caliban one of the most annoying and difficult to farm for. As they said themselves, they need people to actually play caliban to see if they did a good job, and the 2 people that currently use him aren't enough XD

And Caliban is going to be played by a lot of people because is going to be gifted, to come with its own slot AND a catalyst pre-installed ; meaning for a lot of new players still struggling in the star chart, they will ALL have a passive 50% damage reduction, an army, and spell doing damage to the normal star chart ; without any of its late game utility, as it's all going to be removed. No more strip defense, no more mobile aggro + shield generation.

[(PSN)SonicShift7]

Rework - When you either remove and add a new ability to a warframe (Zephyr, Vauban, Ember)

Revisit - When you improve a warframe`s abilites without removing it.

 

So Caliban and Nova did not get a rework it was a revisit.

 

Caliban

While I to like the revisit, I can`t stand the way he look. He`s an ugly asymmetric frame, when you make the prime please make it symmetrical, remove the long part on his shoulders since that messes will placing armour on him and remove the peg-leg and make it the same as his right leg.

Nova

These are good changes but I think she need some small improvements to make her better:

Spoiler

3rd ability:

·       If an enemy walks into it on the opposite end it will send the back to the direction its pointing at (this is good to put in doorways)

·       You can shoot through the worm hole which will convert into explosions in a 10m radius.

·       Make the worm hole bigger for multiple enemies to walk through it.

·       Decrease energy cost to 50 energy.

·       Throwing weapons can pass through it. (glaives, spears)

 

Synergy:

·       If her 1 hits an enemy, that`s affected by her 4 it will deal more damage.

 

Hildryn

While there are good QOL changes I believe she need a lot more than this.

Here are some suggestions to make her better.

Spoiler

1st ability:

·       Increase the blast radius from 3m to 5m

·       Charging it will widen the spread to shoot in a cone.

Fix: There is an issue with damage and targeting when it comes to shooting at an enemy vs shooting the ground.

 

2nd ability:

·       Enemies will stagger when the wave goes out and back in to give it cc.

 

3rd ability:

·       Enemies should have a 50% chance to be affected by radiation causing enemies to attack each other.

 

4th ability:

·       Dashing doesn`t cost any shields.

·       While using the 1st ability, you are able to aim like you`re using a gun.

·       Holding the 1st ability while in her 4th ability will change it to auto shooting draining 50 shields a second.

·       The cc effect can bypass obstacles and floor levels.

·       Make her be able to fly over endless pits without losing altitude.

·       Visually, make her do the landing animation after she hits the ground instead of her doing it in mid-air.

·       The higher she is, the more damage she will do when deactivating the ability. Reaching the 10m cap will double the damage.

 

Wukong

You keep nerfing him but you won`t fix any of the issues he has like incosistance with the AI of his 1 or the idle animations not having the staff in his hands which has been like that ever since his release and the horrible stance of his 4 which people have complained about.

Here are some suggestions I have for Wukong:
 

Spoiler

2nd ability:

·       Pressing the left trigger (controller) should give the option to increase or decrease its speed.

·       Sentinels and companions are invulnerable while activated.

 

3rd ability:

·       There is no limit to how much armour you can receive.

 

4th ability:

·       The second part of the combo with the kick animation should (small) ragdoll the enemy hit instead of a knockdown.

·       The ground slam animation should look like the slams when Wukong`s staff is bigger. (the slam we have now looks weak)

·       The ground finisher animation should be Wukong jabbing his staff into the enemy`s back.

·       Pressing the secondary fire while aiming at an enemy will jab his staff into the dealing damage and pull Wukong to them doing a flykick closing the gap.

Fix: When Wukong stands still with no weapons equipped, the animation is meant to show him with the staff in his hand but you can`t see.

Fix: The behaviour of the clone is inconsistent, sometimes it runs around but not shoot anything even with ammo.

 

Cyte-09

I talked about his exalted sniper ability before, please read.

Spoiler

 

 

Also I remember you mentioned that Nyx and Trinity were to get a look at too but mo Trinity needs a revisit and Nyx needs a rework.

Here are some suggestions I have the them both:

Spoiler

Nyx

Passive New: If Nyx`s health is below 50%, enemies attacking her will be put to sleep.

·       There is a 3 second window for enemies to be affected.

·       After the 3 second window is up it won`t activate again unless Nyx`s health is full.

·       Enemies will be put to sleep for 3 seconds.

·       There is no range limit on enemies put to sleep.

 

1st ability REWORK:

Nyx sends out a telekinetic wave that levitates enemies in the air. Deactivating the ability will turn them in to a projectile shooting them across the room.

·       Enemies will be levitated for 15 seconds.

·       The wave range is 15m and is sent out as a cone.

·       Enemies affected and hit will receive a decreased damage output by 70% for 12 seconds.

·       You can aim the lifted enemies in the direction of where the radicle is.

·       The duration of enemy de-buff can be increased by duration mods.

·       It can be cast in the air.

·       Depending on the chosen energy colour, there will be an aura around the affected enemies.

 

2nd ability:

·       Make it de-buff all eximus units.

·       Pressing the ability will deal 500 damage to enemies while holding the ability will strip enemies’ defences.

·       This ability has a combo window. The more it`s used the more damage it does, the less energy it takes. (ability press)

 

3rd ability:

·       Nyx has the option to cycle through three different commands. Enemies affected can either fight against each other, run away in fear or fall to the ground brain dead.

·       You can change enemies` behaviour while the ability is active.

·       If Nyx is shooting an enemy while they are in the animation state, the enemy will accumulate the damage you deal to it and will convert to extra damage, also the damage accumulate is spread out to the enemies affected by the ability.

·       Enemy stun and invulnerable window when shooting at an enemy last for 3 seconds.

·       FIX: In interception, enemies will still hack the terminal while under the effects of it and even if enemies are near them.

 

4th ability:

·       Make her move at the same speed as jogging. (while in her meditate stance)

·       It pulls aggro from enemies.

·       If cast in the air she will be stationary and have a 30% chance for enemies to be hermitized into slowly moving closer to Nyx in a 50m radius. If allies or companions get within 20m of the enemy, it will break the hermeticism making the enemies attack them.

·       You can use weapons while inside it. 30% of the weapon`s damage will be converted into status damage from the weapon Nyx is using to the absorption damage.

·       Whatever enemy is shooting at nyx will be affected by the explosion no matter the distance. Enemies in close damage range will take damage and enemies outside that will receive a knockdown and the status affects from whatever weapons you`re using.

·       Remove the ability for allies to be able to shoot it.

·       It won`t drain energy unless Nyx is being attacked.

·       (Synergy) If you aim your radical at an enemy and use the 1st ability, Nyx will propel herself forward to the enemy in a 15m radius. This will also deactivate the ability.

·       (Synergy) You can cast other abilities while using 4th ability and will cost half the energy.

·       (Synergy) If you use the 2nd ability, when deactivating the 4th ability, the de-buff will spread to enemies the survive the blast.

 

Trinity

1st ability:

·       This ability gives trinity and allies armour instead of health.

·       This ability can affect multiple enemies.

·       Enemies affected will receive a damage output decrease by 20% and can be increased by strength mods.

·       Trinity and allies will have 7 seconds to shoot enemy to receive armour.

·       Within the timer, you can stack up armour, receiving 10 armour with each shot.

·       For automatic guns, every 5 shots will give 10 armour.

·       Killing an enemy gives 50 armour and killing an enemy in one shot gives 500 armour.

·       The duration of allies keeping the bonus armour is the same as the duration of the ability.

·       (Synergy) If trinity shoots the enemy while using the 3rd or the 4th ability, it will increase her survivability.

 

2nd ability:

·       If the energy wave hits an enemy, it will receive a stagger.

Edited 12 hours ago by (PSN)SonicShift7

[GreyEnneract]

Well now that we have an official thread mentioning 2 summoners (Wukong and Caliban) I can finally bring up that imo all summons should just have no duration.
Kinda obvious no?
Let them stick around until they die please, thanks.

[ReaperR33]

I personally think Caliban should just summon one of each by default. I do like the sound of the changes he is getting so far but I do not play him well enough to know the downsides of his new 3. Reading more on it though it does seem limited in high level play when you're stuck to either two of three summons (one if you're looking to survive more reliably).

I'll definitely be giving him another chance when the changes drop and we all get the free copy. We'll just have to see how it plays out.

Edited Saturday at 07:33 PM by ReaperR33

[OrochiUmbra]

Apprechiate the Caliban rework, but the linguring Armor Strip Field NEEDS to stay as one of his identity feature

[Destroyahx87]

25 minutes ago, MoonYuTsu said:

I've said my piece earlier in this thread, but his 3 isn't objectively better if you give it somethought for a bit - the functionality that his 3 currently gives is basically being split between two of the possible summons in this rework. 
 

• Current Version of his 3: You want damage dealers, aggro pullers and shield generators? That's what the ability does. (you can sort of make them status spreaders with some Helminthing, but since that's Helminth I'll ignore that, it's not a main part of the ability
• Rework Version of his 3: You want damage dealers? You use the Conculysts. You want status spreaders? You use the Ortholysts. You want Shield Regen and aggro pullers? You use the Summulyst. 

Given Shield Tanking is one of Current Caliban's actually really strong points and how he survives in higher level content, you're basically going to be forced to use the Summulyst as enemy levels rise, or you'll just get run over - this is pretty problematic. Also I'm pretty sure DE have said (maybe it was even Pablo himself) that "Ability Wheel" abilities like new Lethal Progeny are something they don't like... so it's kind of odd they're reworking Caliban to give him one, and showing one of the problems with said wheels in the process.... 
 
Some people have suggested an Augment that summons one of each, which would alleviate the issue... but as long as the Shield Regen is locked to the Summulyst, an Augment like that will just end up being one of those "Bandaid Augments that does what the ability should've in the first place" things (ensure you always have regen from your summons). The problem should just be addressed on the ability itself, rather than making a Bandaid augment.

Yes, I have given that some thought and it was a complaint of mine when first seeing this rework. But I think the philosophy DE is going for here is that you're supposed to be cycling through these abilities a lot. 

 

I agree that the Summalyst shield regent ability should be for all sentients he spawns in, but Sentient Wrath can possibly alleviate the issue. Maybe you use it to keep enemy fire off you, quickly swap to the Conculysts or Ortholyst for quick damage dealing, before swapping back. I know it's not a full proof method, but we'll just have to wait till we get our hands on him to see.

[GreyEnneract]

17 minutes ago, Destroyahx87 said:

Yes, I have given that some thought and it was a complaint of mine when first seeing this rework. But I think the philosophy DE is going for here is that you're supposed to be cycling through these abilities a lot. 

 

I agree that the Summalyst shield regent ability should be for all sentients he spawns in, but Sentient Wrath can possibly alleviate the issue. Maybe you use it to keep enemy fire off you, quickly swap to the Conculysts or Ortholyst for quick damage dealing, before swapping back. I know it's not a full proof method, but we'll just have to wait till we get our hands on him to see.

Just sounds very tedious and counter to them bringing up fast paced gameplay about 5 times.

[Daiphelion]

2 hours ago, Lohillus said:

As someone who plays caliban almost exclusively I will say outside of his 2 this rework is a straight downgrade which will give him neither lasting appeal to new players and also likely alienate previous players since they removed what people liked about him. Tau status as it sounds simply isn't worthwhile to make up for losing so much and spreading what he can already do across several choices instead of having access to them all at once. Maybe if tau also increases status DAMAGE it'll be good but status chance on a 10% chance per stack with non-refreshing durations is garbage, its basically nothing and only his one summon type seems able to apply it reliably and his OTHER summon type is the only part of his kit that can remotely make use of it.

I'd maybe argue the changes to the 2 as well.  Lifted Status, as a Ragdoll, confers the opportunity to hit multiple hit locations on an enemy simultaneously; that's why Gas is so ludicrously effective with it.  This new Lifted state may not (we will see, I guess) allow for that and additionally, if you are like me, you send out the 2 and then tap Fusion Strike to end the Lifted and draw enemies together like a mini grouping utility, complete with defence strip which looks like it may not work either. 

[Threa]

The changes to Nova and Caliban genuinely make me happy. Based on what they've said and shown us so far, I think many people will have a blast with the reworks. It gives me hope and deepens my love for DE and the changes they're making to our beloved Warframes. Very exciting stuff!! 

[quxier]

On 2024-09-27 at 10:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Tau’s Status Effect inflicts Status Chance Vulnerability to enemies affected by it, with a max of 10 Stacks culminating in 100% Status Chance Vulnerability (10% per Stack), with each stack individually lasting 8 seconds! 

This mechanic was originally introduced by Dante and his Pageflight Paragrimms, in which you could apply Status Chance Vulnerability to enemies. This mechanic increases the likelihood an enemy receives a Status Effect when being hit.

How the status chance vulnerability is caluclated? Does 100% means +1 guraranteed proc? Or is it calculated like <moded status chance> * <1 + status chance vulnerability>? What happens when we have Dante? How it combines?

On 2024-09-27 at 10:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Passive

Caliban’s Passive is virtually unchanged, but we’ve changed it to gather stacks when Caliban is immune, similar to Adaptation.

So when you are taking a lot of damage how this passive helps me? Let's say I have 100 hp, enemy deals 1 000 damage. 50% is still 500. The enemy stil kills me "5 times".

Equipping Adaptation makes the passive useless?

On 2024-09-27 at 10:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Razor Gyre:

Razor Gyre has received a mighty upgrade. Razor Gyre inflicts Tau Status Effects on enemies struck while refunding some of his Health, Shield, and Energy pools - all while traversing the battlefield.

• Razor Gyre is now a Status-inflicting traversal tool with a multitude of synergies.
  • Tap to dash forward as a spinning vortex, hitting every enemy within your radius.
  • Caliban gains 20 Health for every enemy hit, and when your Health is overflowed, it becomes Shields. If your Shields overflow, it becomes Overshield!
    • Razor Gyre will also refund 25% of the Ability's Energy cost when hitting an enemy - allowing for it be refunded!
  • Loot and Energy/Health Orbs can now be collected during Razor Gyre.

Why it matters that loot/energy/hp can be collected during Razor Gyre? Can I for example travel for 1 minute? If it's simple dash (short) then it's not necessary. It's not that this change is bad. It just confuses me.

On 2024-09-27 at 10:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

• •  
• Razor Gyre now inflicts Tau Damage and Status instead of Slash and Impact Damage and Status.
  • Razor Gyre inflicts 500 base Tau Damage and 1,000 base Tau Damage on lifted enemies.
  • These should allow Razor Gyre to become a synergetic staple by debuffing enemies for a low to no cost!

So more status & smaller % mercy. Nice.

On 2024-09-27 at 10:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Razor Gyre:

Razor Gyre has received a mighty upgrade. Razor Gyre inflicts Tau Status Effects on enemies struck while refunding some of his Health, Shield, and Energy pools - all while traversing the battlefield.

Does it still have any of current synergies and/or mechanics?

1) When you click LMB at enemy you dash to the enemy. Does activating activating ability when pointing at enemy does it (dash to enemy)? Ability could dash to enemy and do some AoE - it could be better than dashing too much or too little.

2) Increased damage while holding LMB.

Does Razor gyre has any effect on Sentient wraith (2nd)? It could do some AoE (like in 1) or affect all enemies affected via Sentient wraith (or lifted).

On 2024-09-27 at 10:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Enemies suspended by Sentient Wrath will now be locked in place to prevent them from floating away, similar to how Xaku’s Deny and Hydroid’s Tentacle Swarm hold enemies in position.

That's amazing. Can we do the same with Lifted status?

On 2024-09-27 at 10:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

• Summulysts are portal-based Sentients that summon Shield-regenerating Choralysts that’ll distract your foes while recharging your and your allies' Shields.

Would it still recharge shield at shield gate (0 shield)? Now it does nothing. Jade at least have increased recharge delay & speed. Caliban could use it as well.

On 2024-09-27 at 10:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Lethal Progeny:

Sounds very promising. I cannot wait to test it.

On 2024-09-27 at 10:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

• •  
• Casting Fusion Strike now makes Caliban immune from damage for the duration of the cast.

Sounds good enough.

On 2024-09-27 at 10:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

• Hildryn can now use Pillage or any Helminth Ability while Aegis Storm is active!
  • Jade is allowed to use Pillage while using her 4th Ability, so we felt Hildryn deserved to utilize Pillage while she flew around, too!

Great. Other frames like Styanax could use same treatment.

On 2024-09-27 at 10:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Increased Hildryn’s maximum speed, movement acceleration and hover ascension rate while in Aegis Storm.

Jade is proud of you. :D

On 2024-09-27 at 10:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

Passive:

Nova’s original passive emitted Blast Damage upon her being knocked down, meaning any Primed Sure Footed users would have seen this nullified entirely. So, we’ve whipped up a new passive that feels more appropriate for 2024 Warframe standards:

• Enemies killed while Slowed have 15% to drop Health orbs. Enemies killed while Sped Up have 15% to drop Energy orbs.

That's horrible. Now any user that have any energy restores/regenerations won't see it's effect. What's 15% chance if you can have like 100 on demand? Just give it blast status chance. Prime sure footed have "nullified effect"? What about Caliban & Adaptation? That's double standards.

 

This is horrible "2024 warframe standard":

- It requires ability so it's ability effect not passive.

- Energy return is very low. 4th costs 100 energy while you have 15% to get 25 energy. Kill ~40 enemies to get 100 energy? That's unreasonable.

- It does not change playstyle. It just give you some energy/hp that we already have dozen methods of acquiring (Energy restores, Energy nexus, Zenurik/Vazarin etc). I remember when some passive make difference how we play. Limbo used to be almost immortal. Wisp have invisibility on jumps. Just something that I don't need to use energy, something interesting.

- It's boring that have been used in some forms. Dagath have 35% chances for 300% effectiveness. Nekros restore 5 hp with death. Citrine resores hp (and more). Equinox converts 10% energy/hp to hp/energy. I think we have enough of such effects.

On 2024-09-27 at 10:48 PM, [DE]Sam said:

 

• Added a Tap / Hold functionality: Tap to cast a Slowing effect on enemies. Hold to cast a Speed-Up effect instead.

Finally! It's great change.

[dwqrf]

il y a 39 minutes, quxier a dit :

How the status chance vulnerability is caluclated? Does 100% means +1 guraranteed proc? Or is it calculated like <moded status chance> * <1 + status chance vulnerability>? What happens when we have Dante? How it combines?

No, Tau Status will surely be +100% Status chance vulnerability, meaning if you have a weapon with 10% status, you go up to 20% at cap.

If you have a Dante (with 400% power) giving +200% status chance vulnerability on capped Tau statuses, for a total of +300% Status chance vulnerability, your 10% status chance weapon will go up to 40%
 

il y a 39 minutes, quxier a dit :

Equipping Adaptation makes the passive useless?

Adaptation like Caliban's passive are not a pure 90% and 50% respective DR ; as they only reduce the highest incoming damage ; as in, if a Grineer hit you with one bullet doing 30 Impact, 20 Slash, and 10 Puncture ; you adapt only to the Impact part of the weapon ; up to 90% with Adaptation, giving a result like 3 Impact, 20 Slash and 10 Puncture ; so in that given case, Adaptation isn't even 50% DR, so Caliban's passive is even less potent than that.

And Adaptation and Caliban's passive don't stack, they are the exact same DR ; even though they don't have the same stacking mecanic and overall duration (so sometimes, you can lose all stack of Adaptation while still having stacks of the passive). Also, Caliban's passive doesn't apply to DoTs somehow, while Adaptation does.

The good part about Caliban's passive is that it affect everything in affinity range, even Companions and Archwing and possibly Hostages and even Railjack ; that's why it's considered pretty strong. But I really would rather is being a straight up 90% damage reduction Adaptation-like for self only, or have it stays the same but stack with Adaptation as well.
 

il y a 39 minutes, quxier a dit :

So more status & smaller % mercy. Nice.

They removed the Impact damage part of the spell.
 

il y a 39 minutes, quxier a dit :

Does it still have any of current synergies and/or mechanics?

None whatsoever. The only possible synergy could be to kick start Shield regeneration for Summulyst ; but according to the video, you cannot even gain more than the actual defensive ressource at a time : Meaning if you don't have shield, using Razor Gyre will make you gain Health, and if you have Shield, you should get Shield or Overshield.

The added Tau damage and Status chance doesn't help his kit either, as Caliban will lose all his damage type ; Slash, Impact, and Explosive ; to only have Tau.
 

il y a 39 minutes, quxier a dit :

Sounds good enough.

Lethal progeny was doing three things in the current build : Damage, Aggro redirection, and Shield generation. Now you will have to choose between Damage, Status, or Shield Generation, but only one of them at any given time. Even though, Conculysts and Ortholysts will still absorb some damage and aggro, but they are not going to last really long or do that efficiently ; and the main Summulyst granting Shield generation isn't going to follow you and is limited by range.

Edited yesterday at 12:08 AM by dwqrf

[Rinastina]

17 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

Adaptation like Caliban's passive are not a pure 90% and 50% respective DR ; as they only reduce the highest incoming damage ; as in, if a Grineer hit you with one bullet doing 30 Impact, 20 Slash, and 10 Puncture ; you adapt only to the Impact part of the weapon ; up to 90% with Adaptation, giving a result like 3 Impact, 20 Slash and 10 Puncture ; so in that given case, Adaptation isn't even 50% DR, so Caliban's passive is even less potent than that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but afaik Adaptation applies to all the damage types depending on the stacks it has built, it's just from any hit you can build a single stack of the strongest damage type. Like, if you get hit by that (30 Impact, 20 Slash, and 10 Puncture) attack, you only build one Impact stack, but if you already have Slash and Puncture stacks built prior to that, they'll still reduce the 20S and 10P. 

[(PSN)Grand_Sheba]

Thank you for applying Tau damage and the Caliban changes many of us have been suggesting. As well as the blast changes.

 

However the Passive for Caliban remains the elephant in the room. I understand the concern of it being "quite powerful" on paper. But in play its effectiveness is made Null by Adaptation(mod).

---

Caliban’s Passive: Adaptive Armor (Rework)

---

Current Problem:

1. Redundancy with Adaptation:

Caliban’s passive, Adaptive Armor, currently provides damage reduction modifiers, but the Adaptation mod offers similar or superior benefits. This creates redundancy between the two, as players would still prefer Adaptation for its broader utility, leaving Adaptive Armor underwhelming and less impactful.

2. Limited Effectiveness:

Adaptive Armor caps at 50% damage reduction and decays over time, but it does little to protect against damage-over-time (DoT) effects like Slash, Toxin, or Heat. These types of damage are a significant threat in higher-level content, and Caliban’s current passive leaves him vulnerable to them.

3. No Stacking:

Caliban’s Adaptive Armor doesn’t synergize or stack with Adaptation, meaning there is no layered benefit for players using both, further diminishing the value of his passive.

---

Proposed Changes:

1. Shift Caliban’s Passive from Damage Reduction to Damage Resistance:

New Mechanic: Damage Resistance Mechanic (DRM):

Instead of offering damage reduction like Adaptation, Caliban’s Adaptive Armor should be redesigned to provide Damage Resistance (DRM), which gives him a chance to resist damage entirely and negate status effect procs based on the damage type he builds resistance to.

This means that as Caliban takes damage from a specific damage type (e.g., Slash, Heat, Blast, Puncture), he builds resistance to that type. At full stacks, he gains up to 50% chance to resist incoming damage from that type and 50% chance to resist status procs (excluding DoTs like Slash, Toxin, and Heat).

2. Cap on Damage Resistance:

50% Damage Resistance Cap:

Caliban’s Adaptive Armor would cap at 50% resistance to any damage type. This gives him a chance to avoid being affected by incoming damage or status effects entirely, rather than just reducing damage like Adaptation. It introduces a new defensive mechanic that doesn’t conflict with other mods.

Status Effect Resistance: In addition to resisting direct damage, Adaptive Armor provides Caliban with a 50% chance to resist non-DOT status effects, such as Magnetic, Viral, Puncture, and Corrosive. This helps Caliban avoid debilitating effects from status procs, but DoT procs like Slash and Toxin will still apply, maintaining balance.

---

Separate Resistance and Reduction Mechanics:

Adaptive Armor (DRM): Provides damage and status resistance, offering a chance to resist direct damage and non-DOT status procs, building up over time as Caliban takes hits.

Adaptation: Continues to offer damage reduction, mitigating the raw damage received from all sources (including DoT effects), allowing both abilities to work in harmony.

This differentiation ensures that Caliban benefits from status resistance through Adaptive Armor while still relying on Adaptation to mitigate incoming damage. Both systems will now synergize instead of competing, creating a layered defense for Caliban.

---

3. Passive Decay:

Decay Mechanic:

Caliban’s passive will still decay over time, losing 2% resistance per second after not receiving damage for 5 seconds, but players can build this resistance back up to a maximum of 50% chance to resist damage and status effects.

Ally Mechanic: Allies still benefit from 50% resistance, allowing them some protection from status procs, but not full immunity. This provides a reasonable boost for allies without making the effect overpowered.

---

Rationale:

1. Enhanced Utility:

Shifting from damage reduction to damage resistance makes Adaptive Armor significantly more useful by focusing on protecting Caliban from debilitating status procs. This becomes particularly important in high-level content, where status effects like Magnetic or Corrosive can cripple Warframes.

2. Solves Redundancy with Adaptation:

By separating the roles of Adaptive Armor and Adaptation, this rework eliminates the overlap between the two. Adaptive Armor now excels at protecting Caliban from status effects and offers a unique form of defense, while Adaptation continues to reduce raw damage.

3. Better Scalability and Synergy:

The new Damage Resistance Mechanic allows Caliban to scale better into high-level content, giving him more survivability without making him invulnerable. The 50% cap on resistance ensures balance while allowing for powerful, situational defense.

This passive synergizes well with Adaptation, creating a layered defense that rewards strategic play and consistent engagement in combat.

4. Unique Defensive Playstyle:

The ability to adapt to incoming damage and procs makes Caliban a unique defensive Warframe, adding depth to his gameplay. Players who enjoy reactive tanking and defensive strategies will find this rework rewarding, as Caliban becomes more resilient the longer he stays in battle.

---

Conclusion: This rework transforms Adaptive Armor from a redundant damage reduction ability into a distinct and impactful passive that synergizes with Adaptation and provides a new, dynamic layer of defense. By focusing on status resistance and damage resistance, Caliban becomes a more versatile Warframe capable of thriving in high-level content, while maintaining balance and strategic depth in his defensive mechanics.
 

Edited 22 hours ago by (PSN)Grand_Sheba
I read more into the damage modifiers and damage reduction also called damage resistance and found a redundancy.

[Lord_Vacuum_Cleaner]

Caliban main here. Really like some of the changes but he is really going to be a mid frame with these changes. You add 2 other types of Sentients but now only 1 gives shield regen. This ability was how caliban stayed alive, it's gonna be really hard to justify using the other two even though I want to. And removing the aoe armor strip is just such a bad decision. The changes you made don't even come close to making up for it. Tau seems cool but it's just not gonna be that good. 10 stacks is just too much.

Also I know his 1 is improved, but it sounds like it's gonna be really weak still. 20 hp per enemy is not good. If you just added back the shield regen for all the summons but kept the Summulysts as giving the most regen and the only one giving regen to allies while also keeping the Summulysts with the higher aggro, and added back the armor strip zone, then these changes would be fantastic.