Lucky catch is a lot worse than Charm, change my mind!

[dwqrf]

il y a 15 minutes, vFlitz a dit :

The new mod is going to help very little with targeted farming, the most I can say about it is a dejected 'better than nothing'.

It's going to help as much, on average.

il y a 15 minutes, vFlitz a dit :

The new mod is going to help very little with targeted farming, the most I can say about it is a dejected 'better than nothing'.

It's going to help as much, on average.

[L3512]

46 minutes ago, Lord_Drod said:

You can't do this with SE though.  Only one instance can be active at a time and it's been like that for a while, so I don't see the point of waiting especially with a resource cap on the ground, which will definitely be hit if you are waiting for that buff to come.  I've tried not picking it up, but you then have to go back to the drop every time before killing the next acolyte.

For most people doing this there is no "going back" as it's a stationary camp, which gives you around 5 minutes for charm to proc.

[Skoomaseller]

On 2024-09-29 at 5:52 PM, (PSN)Cephalon_Scarlet said:

Smeeta was for level cap try-hard farmers anyways.

let's not be delulu here yeah, everyone is a try hard farmer, it is literally the point of Warframe.

[vFlitz]

3 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

It's going to help as much, on average.

No. Only in short missions and with resources that go straight to your inventory, but that's far from the full scope of what and how people farm.

The average time of getting Charm to proc is 9.5 minutes. If I'm farming with Khora in a survival I can easily not pick anything that drops around my strangledome until Charm procs, then grab and double everything. New mod will on average double 18% of the resources, which may or may not include the resource I specifically wanted.

If I'm fishing, I can use cheaper or no bait while I wait for Charm, then double fish from an expensive bait for the entire Charm duration. With new mod, I only get 18% more fish per bait, so it's much less efficient if bait is a limiting factor.

The new mod is only comparable in scenarios where you have no ability to increase Charm's efficiency. Otherwise Charm is vastly superior, even without taking multi stacking into account.

[dwqrf]

il y a 6 minutes, vFlitz a dit :

The average time of getting Charm to proc is 9.5 minutes. If I'm farming with Khora in a survival I can easily not pick anything that drops around my strangledome until Charm procs, then grab and double everything. New mod will on average double 18% of the resources, which may or may not include the resource I specifically wanted.

If I'm fishing, I can use cheaper or no bait while I wait for Charm, then double fish from an expensive bait for the entire Charm duration. With new mod, I only get 18% more fish per bait, so it's much less efficient if bait is a limiting factor.

And that's not the way the devs want you to play the game, period.

[-SilverWolfPrime-]

I need to relearn math in order to do some calculations because I am genuinely curious now, but I'm surprised this isn't being mentioned in discussion.

[vFlitz]

13 minutes ago, dwqrf said:

And that's not the way the devs want you to play the game, period.

They said they don't want people to wait and do nothing while waiting for Charm to proc, which is a bit of strawman. In an endless mission choosing not to pick some resources is not doing nothing, you still have the entire mission going on around you, and it's not like you're going anywhere either way. When farming something quick nobody who cares about efficiency would wait around because it's better to do runs as quickly as possibly and get coincidental procs along the way. And with external limiting factors like bait, well, then some waiting may be the cost of being frugal. But fishing isn't the 'fast paced gameplay' that Pablo used to support this argument, either.

If the devs didn't want a stationary survival camp meta for farming then perhaps they shouldn't have made augments like Pilfering Swarm and Pilfering Strangledome which are inherently stationary, and instead designed ways to get increased rewards through active gameplay. They could also have chosen to enforce their vision with a more adequate alternative instead of doing so at the expense of my time with a substantially worse one, or even increased the baseline drops because it's not like this is the first loot nerf either.

Lastly, I'm in no way obliged to give a damn about how they want me to play. I'll do it in a way that either entertains me best or accomplishes my goals the fastest, they have no say in which of the two I chose or how I go about it. 

[_Anise_]

44 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

I'll do it in a way that either entertains me best or accomplishes my goals the fastest

they have effectively double the time of some grinds that could have guarantied been cut in half, leaving a plat purchase as the only viable 1:1 alternative

Edited Tuesday at 03:32 AM by _Anise_

[L3512]

49 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

They said they don't want people to wait and do nothing while waiting for Charm to proc, which is a bit of strawman. In an endless mission choosing not to pick some resources is not doing nothing, you still have the entire mission going on around you, and it's not like you're going anywhere either way. When farming something quick nobody who cares about efficiency would wait around because it's better to do runs as quickly as possibly and get coincidental procs along the way. And with external limiting factors like bait, well, then some waiting may be the cost of being frugal. But fishing isn't the 'fast paced gameplay' that Pablo used to support this argument, either.

If the devs didn't want a stationary survival camp meta for farming then perhaps they shouldn't have made augments like Pilfering Swarm and Pilfering Strangledome which are inherently stationary, and instead designed ways to get increased rewards through active gameplay. They could also have chosen to enforce their vision with a more adequate alternative instead of doing so at the expense of my time with a substantially worse one, or even increased the baseline drops because it's not like this is the first loot nerf either.

Lastly, I'm in no way obliged to give a damn about how they want me to play. I'll do it in a way that either entertains me best or accomplishes my goals the fastest, they have no say in which of the two I chose or how I go about it. 

What you got to understand about DE is that they like to try and justify changes to gameplay that they want to nerf, now their real issue with charm IMO is it's ability to stack and to also manage the buff somewhat by leaving loot on the ground.

Instead of saying "players are getting loot faster than we want so charm is now dead, put on your big boy pants and suck it up."

We get something like "charm in it's current form does not match the fast paced nature of our game."

The issue with this is that any justification can and will be scrutinised by players and it doesn't take a genius to see the often many inaccuracies or and loopholes of their justifications/examples.

The most prime example is the Gladiator set mods vs the Vigilante set mods on sentinels. In that case Gladiator mods had been around for years and even patched multiple times until their interaction with melee combo was deemed unintended and they were nerfed despite a similar thing happening with the Vigilante set which persists to this day. The funny thing about this was that it rendered Helios useless like most other companions and indirectly buffed Smeeta by removing a viable competitor.

Edited Tuesday at 03:37 AM by L3512

[Joylesstuna]

47 minutes ago, -SilverWolfPrime- said:

I need to relearn math in order to do some calculations because I am genuinely curious now, but I'm surprised this isn't being mentioned in discussion.

Can you give a little description of what he talks about.

[_Anise_]

10 minutes ago, Joylesstuna said:

Can you give a little description of what he talks about.

he basically talks about the math behind it, the chances etc, though he also says you can unequip your guns to increase the chance of the buff which the wiki disputes but the video is from 3 years ago..

one thing he does mention is that without tech enhance the buff works out similar to the relay resource blessing, not sure how because that is chance and not doubling *shrug*

Edited Tuesday at 03:16 AM by _Anise_

[vFlitz]

9 minutes ago, _Anise_ said:

they have effectively double the time of some grinds that could have guarantied been cut in half, leaving a plat purchase as the only viable 1:1 alternative

It's not even an alternative because they stacked. I would have gotten a booster on top of my smeeta if I needed a lot of something, just as many other people would. I dunno, maybe they're hoping this will extend farm times enough so that people buy even more. They already introduce new resources somewhat regularly so nobody can just rest on stockpiles and never need the booster anymore. I still remember when after the double resource weekend following Duviri release their immediate course of action was adding another plant there just to ensure people would still need to farm.

5 minutes ago, L3512 said:

What you got to understand about DE is that they like to try and justify changes to gameplay that they want to nerf, now their real issue with charm IMO is it's ability to stack and to also manage the buff somewhat by leaving loot on the ground.

Instead of saying "players are getting loot faster than we want so charm is now dead, put on your big boy pants and suck it up."                                                                                 We get something like "charm in it's current form does not match the fast paced nature of our game."

The issue with this is that any justification can and will be scrutinised by players and it doesn't take a genius to see the often many inaccuracies or and loopholes of their justifications/examples.

The most prime example is the Gladiator set mods vs the Vigilante set mods on sentinels. In that case Gladiator mods had been around for years and even patched multiple times until their interaction with melee combo was deemed unintended and they were nerfed despite a similar thing happening with the Vigilante set which persists to this day. The funny thing about this was that it rendered Helios useless like most other companions and indirectly buffed Smeeta by removing a viable competitor.

You're 100% right on this, and it's one of the most frustrating things about Warframe to me, maybe even one of the main reasons why I play much less these days. It's bad enough that they do it, but taking a look online and watching all the people who fall for it? That is just depressing.

[dwqrf]

il y a 44 minutes, vFlitz a dit :

They said they don't want people to wait and do nothing while waiting for Charm to proc, which is a bit of strawman. In an endless mission choosing not to pick some resources is not doing nothing, you still have the entire mission going on around you, and it's not like you're going anywhere either way. When farming something quick nobody who cares about efficiency would wait around because it's better to do runs as quickly as possibly and get coincidental procs along the way. And with external limiting factors like bait, well, then some waiting may be the cost of being frugal. But fishing isn't the 'fast paced gameplay' that Pablo used to support this argument, either.

If the devs didn't want a stationary survival camp meta for farming then perhaps they shouldn't have made augments like Pilfering Swarm and Pilfering Strangledome which are inherently stationary, and instead designed ways to get increased rewards through active gameplay. They could also have chosen to enforce their vision with a more adequate alternative instead of doing so at the expense of my time with a substantially worse one, or even increased the baseline drops because it's not like this is the first loot nerf either.

Lastly, I'm in no way obliged to give a damn about how they want me to play. I'll do it in a way that either entertains me best or accomplishes my goals the fastest, they have no say in which of the two I chose or how I go about it. 

Let me tell you this : 

I understand your frustration. Many years ago, when Kuva was released, I surprised myself to find an awesome trick with my Smeeta (called after my baby cat girl which is now a ten years old mama) to farm Kuva the most efficiently ; playing then with Frost and his armor augment (before Overguard) so not to trigger the Charm overshield buff, and with the flux rifle and the cycron (before Tenet) as beam weapons so not to trigger the Charm reload buff. I was so freakin happy to have maximised the procc chance of the Resource boost, so to farm up the valuable needed and maddening Kuva. I had a clear advantage over other players not using Smeeta, or the ones not using those tricks. It created disparity. Eventually, I moved on from resource farming due to playing too much, playing everything, and farming something much harder, the Codex, locking me once again into a specific pet, Helios, without any choice. And nowadays, I'd wish I could play something else, but I cannot know if I'd ever encounter a Legendary Zariman cache around the corner.

Anyways, at this time you could play Hydroid, which was transforming himself in a pool, making him untargettable, unkillable, and doing %max hp as pure damage to drowing enemies.

A bit later, you could play Grendel, eating up the whole map, doing then infinite damage, as it scaled with enemy level multiplied by numbers of enemies.

And both those frames got nerfed to the ground because they only advantaged people with the right build and the right knowledge of the mecanics and were obscure or barely playable for everyone else. So they got flattened, casualized, so now, more people can play them and enjoy them without needing a specific set up or a warframe doctorate to make them efficient in the right place and the right time.

But people like me that enjoyed pushing those unknown frames to their limits find the nerfs disgusting, game changing, and totally killing the characters' identities. But we are only a handful, against ten of thousands of people that can play them now and have their part of fun.

Caliban in this exact same update was as well going to be strongly nerfed, for me, but it was supposed to the highlight of the update as a generic buff rework, and I fought tooth and nails to make sure he was actually going to get better and not worst. Luckily, it happened, because he was highly unpoplar to begin with.

Smeeta was the most popular pet in the game, and just because of Charm. And because of people exploiting its mecanics, it created huge disparities between the ones mastering it's potential gain against those whom didn't, and those whom didn't use it at all, leaving too many pets in the dust in the process.

And among the ten of thousands of people benefiting for a Charm-for-all, you belong to the few that see their mastery ruined. And your frustration is well placed. But now, you can only transform it in pride, as you were one of the few that really knew how to optimize it, and did so regularly. But that era gone. The game changed. That's life. There will always be a before and after Koumei for you. Don't let it darken the rest of the game for you, or for the others.

Edited Tuesday at 03:33 AM by dwqrf

[_Anise_]

58 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

It's not even an alternative because they stacked.

I mentioned earlier in the thread, boosters and lootboxes or just gacha are things I generally don't buy in games, so outside of an event, getting a booster as a login reward or from sorties or whatever I don't have that buff, this change effectively removed my main way of getting semi consistant doubles on my rare drops like Steel essence and Void essence...

why do they even care, I am sitting on 200 steel essence, the relics I can buy are capped at 25, I can buy as much arcane adapters as they add weapons into the game, what does it matter to them or the game if I can farm 50 steel essence this week or 100? I can still farm the 100 I just need to spend twice as much time...

why do they care if I have to farm solo no relic void essence capture missions for 2 hours or 4 hours to fill up my cap? for a slight chance my relic might drop better loot?

seems like it does not really matter in the grand scheme of things to the game? so why is everyone so insistent it is bad for the game? and for the uno reverse If it does not matter why does it matter to me? only because it's my time!

Void essence is arguably the worst farm in the game for what little chance to buffs the relics and could do with having its base drop chances increasing!! also if they would just put some kinda of pity timer on Lucky Catch doubling rare resources I don't think I would have as big an issue with the new mod as much.

Edited Tuesday at 04:17 AM by _Anise_

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

3 hours ago, vFlitz said:

This is far from the average experience though, and if you find your luck to be that bad, then you can just as well expect the new mod to never proc for the resources you want, too. On the other hand, your chance of getting very lucky for a 4x or 8x drop is now always a merciless 0%.

My experience is always that bad. It rarely if ever seems to proc for me.

[PurpleDraken]

Il y a 16 heures, SneakyErvin a dit :

I also wonder how you arrived at 20m being some mark for feeling a nerf from this? Where does that magic number come from? The chance for charm doesnt increase the longer you go, neither does the new mod. Chance is still just chance.

No offence, but we don't need to be a genuis to know it's a nerf for the rarest ressources and a buff for the common ones. And the problem will be the same as old one, just in a smaller scale. Let set an example (it will seems extreme, but i saw thing like that from my own eyes multiple times) :
Now ; someone get no x2 from rare ressources from old charm vs someone who proc old charm a lot with some x4 and even a x8 because he is lucky.
After the update ; someone will still get no x2 for rare ressources vs someone who get x2 each time.

See? Same problem, smaller scale, but still the same problem. It's like their argument of not wanting to wait, it's sounds like a joke when survival, defense, interception, excavation are waiting mission, jade added another defense mission, koumei will be a defense mission. If they truly want us to not wait, stop making mission build like that.

[L3512]

5 hours ago, vFlitz said:

You're 100% right on this, and it's one of the most frustrating things about Warframe to me, maybe even one of the main reasons why I play much less these days. It's bad enough that they do it, but taking a look online and watching all the people who fall for it? That is just depressing.

Yes I find it dishonest for the sake of trying to curb backlash.

Really it's one of the few gripes I have with DE overall.

[Rexis12]

All I learned from this is that apparently everyone here that doesn't like the new Mod can guarentee proc their Smeeta to get Charm the EXACT time the resources they need show up. 

If that was the case, I would've asked y'all how y'all did it, because damn that's something to hide from the community lol. 

[Gaxxian]

hace 2 horas, Rexis12 dijo:

All I learned from this is that apparently everyone here that doesn't like the new Mod can guarentee proc their Smeeta to get Charm the EXACT time the resources they need show up. 

If that was the case, I would've asked y'all how y'all did it, because damn that's something to hide from the community lol. 

Waiting and waiting and waiting for full minutes straight, leaving the loot at the ground until they got the buff to pick it all.

[-ShadowRadiance-]

Which is not gameplay IMO. Its afking with extra steps. 

But im almost willing to bet someone out there found a way to make a sound notification when the buff appeared on their UI. 

At the minimum. Had a dedicsted timer spreadsheet that dinged every time the buff could be added so they could just check or go back to afking.

 

Peak gameplay. 

Mucho nerf.

 

*Gives DE praise for murdering the charm buff in its current state*

Edited Tuesday at 11:47 AM by -ShadowRadiance-

[Tsukinoki]

Add onto that, the fact that the math in the wiki isn't quite right (as it assumes that every buff had an equal chance to occur, when Pablo states that double resources only occurs 10% of the time if the buff triggers), meaning that the time estimates are a bit off.

Given a 2.8% chance of it occurring every 27 seconds (not the 4.6667% chance the wiki is basing it's numbers on), after the wiki's stated "578 seconds" which is 21 chances at procing the resource doubler and you are at 44.92% chance that you will have gotten said resource doubler once during that period.
That is significantly worse than the 63.34% chance you would be expecting if all the buffs had the same chance of activating.

So after waiting for 9 and a half minutes you have slightly worse odds than a coin flip to get double resources.

Even after going a full 20 minutes you are at 72% chance to have had the buff trigger once during the entire duration of your 20 minute run.

 

53 minutes ago, Gaxxian said:

Waiting and waiting and waiting for full minutes straight, leaving the loot at the ground until they got the buff to pick it all.

I've ran across this in normal missions and it's always annoying AF....which is why I sometimes bring a Loki that can ST them into wherever they refuse to go to force them to continue the mission because their rare pickups are now "ruined" and they can just hurry to extraction.....

[Karyst]

8 hours ago, dwqrf said:

Let me tell you this : 

I understand your frustration. Many years ago, when Kuva was released, I surprised myself to find an awesome trick with my Smeeta (called after my baby cat girl which is now a ten years old mama) to farm Kuva the most efficiently ; playing then with Frost and his armor augment (before Overguard) so not to trigger the Charm overshield buff, and with the flux rifle and the cycron (before Tenet) as beam weapons so not to trigger the Charm reload buff. I was so freakin happy to have maximised the procc chance of the Resource boost, so to farm up the valuable needed and maddening Kuva. I had a clear advantage over other players not using Smeeta, or the ones not using those tricks. It created disparity. Eventually, I moved on from resource farming due to playing too much, playing everything, and farming something much harder, the Codex, locking me once again into a specific pet, Helios, without any choice. And nowadays, I'd wish I could play something else, but I cannot know if I'd ever encounter a Legendary Zariman cache around the corner.

Anyways, at this time you could play Hydroid, which was transforming himself in a pool, making him untargettable, unkillable, and doing %max hp as pure damage to drowing enemies.

A bit later, you could play Grendel, eating up the whole map, doing then infinite damage, as it scaled with enemy level multiplied by numbers of enemies.

And both those frames got nerfed to the ground because they only advantaged people with the right build and the right knowledge of the mecanics and were obscure or barely playable for everyone else. So they got flattened, casualized, so now, more people can play them and enjoy them without needing a specific set up or a warframe doctorate to make them efficient in the right place and the right time.

But people like me that enjoyed pushing those unknown frames to their limits find the nerfs disgusting, game changing, and totally killing the characters' identities. But we are only a handful, against ten of thousands of people that can play them now and have their part of fun.

Caliban in this exact same update was as well going to be strongly nerfed, for me, but it was supposed to the highlight of the update as a generic buff rework, and I fought tooth and nails to make sure he was actually going to get better and not worst. Luckily, it happened, because he was highly unpoplar to begin with.

Smeeta was the most popular pet in the game, and just because of Charm. And because of people exploiting its mecanics, it created huge disparities between the ones mastering it's potential gain against those whom didn't, and those whom didn't use it at all, leaving too many pets in the dust in the process.

And among the ten of thousands of people benefiting for a Charm-for-all, you belong to the few that see their mastery ruined. And your frustration is well placed. But now, you can only transform it in pride, as you were one of the few that really knew how to optimize it, and did so regularly. But that era gone. The game changed. That's life. There will always be a before and after Koumei for you. Don't let it darken the rest of the game for you, or for the others.

Does this mean that we can get the car ears now?

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

missions go every 5 minutes so in 20 minutes you can expect to have seen charm activate at least twice (once every 9 and a half minutes nearly guarantied) with tek enhance that duration is  156 seconds so x2 (proc) = 312 seconds which is a 26% uptime while you are killing / looting in a vacuum. (which is why  I assume they chose 20 minutes)

actually I kinda talked myself out of it a bit here... the 13% scales with number of kills, so on unlimited enemy missions with a higher KPM you can potentially get MORE loot you just have no control over what loot, you can't say "acolyte spawned and smeeta is up quick kill him" with catch it just happens or statistically most the time it does not!

I think it makes it better for AFK farmers that use meta builds on unlimited enemy modes and worse for average low kpm joe who just enjoiys playing with stug & loki or something.

I changed my own mind, its better at random loot, horrible for rare resources, which was the only reason people used the mod!

It's lower than that though, since it isnt just an even chance out of 6, the specific resource buff only has a 10% chance to occur out of them all if a proc happens in the first place. So the expected outcome is a bit over 1 per 20 minutes, but it is far from nearly guaranteed at that point. If it was a flat 10% chance it would be nearly guaranteed after around 70 activations, but it is a 10% chance on a chance, so you are looking at a nearly guaranteed 2x resource buff to occur once in every 100 activations of charm. It the same as nearly guaranteed frame part drops, if it has a 10% chance it is nearly guaranteed after roughly 70 runs of that rotation and expected due to chance after 10 runs. But that is a massive difference, expecting it and being nearly guaranteed it.

6 hours ago, PurpleDraken said:

No offence, but we don't need to be a genuis to know it's a nerf for the rarest ressources and a buff for the common ones. And the problem will be the same as old one, just in a smaller scale. Let set an example (it will seems extreme, but i saw thing like that from my own eyes multiple times) :
Now ; someone get no x2 from rare ressources from old charm vs someone who proc old charm a lot with some x4 and even a x8 because he is lucky.
After the update ; someone will still get no x2 for rare ressources vs someone who get x2 each time.

See? Same problem, smaller scale, but still the same problem. It's like their argument of not wanting to wait, it's sounds like a joke when survival, defense, interception, excavation are waiting mission, jade added another defense mission, koumei will be a defense mission. If they truly want us to not wait, stop making mission build like that.

No one has said that specific problem goes away, since it is still RNG based in the end. Also saying that it is a nerf to the rarest resources isnt really true, since it will really only be a nerf to Steel Essence due to the stricter spawn timer on Acolytes. Which results in reaching the nearly guaranteed rolls takes longer, since with an 18% chance it will be reached somewhere between 35-40 rolls or so. Unless all other picked up resources are included in those rolls aswell (someone with more chance math knowledge could likely enlighten me on that), so it ends up being you are nearly guaranteed a 2x drop of whatever every 35-40 pick ups.

With Vitus it is simply about specific groups taking a hit. The avarage player will likely see a benefit with this, since they likely never played a waiting game. And that is also DEs aim, to make it more accessible across the community, both when it comes to the playstyles and gearing options. Since currently charm is only better for those that can put up with the mindnumbing waiting game approach.

As to survival being some waiting mission. I think you mean camping mission, since that is how some people play it. Which makes it horribly boring for anyone that likes to play melee. Which is also one of the restrictive parts of current charm if you wanna cash in on it. You practically cannot play melee and utilize it by waiting at the same time, since you are always in the thick of it and moving across a room etc. Defense is also not much of waiting, since it has a finite number of mobs that you likely want to slaughter as fast as possible for it to move on and spawn more mobs. So practically what you are refering to with waiting mission is camping, which is fun and all if you like it. I personally dont, I never just stand around, I run across the map to kill unless I play a frame that can reach the whole map and kill with skills. So this change to charm is really just about different playstyles getting effected differently from it. Most styles will experience a benefit with the change in more than one way, since it allows them to play how they want without feeling like missing out and it allows them to use more than just one pet.

I also wonder how many are actually aware that charm is just a 10% chance on a chance, and not 1/6 chance on a chance.

[Lord_Drod]

11 hours ago, L3512 said:

What you got to understand about DE is that they like to try and justify changes to gameplay that they want to nerf, now their real issue with charm IMO is it's ability to stack and to also manage the buff somewhat by leaving loot on the ground.

Instead of saying "players are getting loot faster than we want so charm is now dead, put on your big boy pants and suck it up."

We get something like "charm in it's current form does not match the fast paced nature of our game."

The issue with this is that any justification can and will be scrutinised by players and it doesn't take a genius to see the often many inaccuracies or and loopholes of their justifications/examples.

The most prime example is the Gladiator set mods vs the Vigilante set mods on sentinels. In that case Gladiator mods had been around for years and even patched multiple times until their interaction with melee combo was deemed unintended and they were nerfed despite a similar thing happening with the Vigilante set which persists to this day. The funny thing about this was that it rendered Helios useless like most other companions and indirectly buffed Smeeta by removing a viable competitor.

But melee has blood rush.  Primaries have nothing like that.  I hope that doesn't get nerfed, but then I'll have 4 damage mods for verglas or a reworked weapon.

I agree with what you're saying though as far as how similar and the careful wording DE gave for the charm nerf.

I still think helios is mainly used for scans.

[_Anise_]

7 hours ago, Rexis12 said:

All I learned from this is that apparently everyone here that doesn't like the new Mod can guarentee proc their Smeeta to get Charm the EXACT time the resources they need show up. 

that is a very lose interpenetration, people (at least me) would be happier if this thing had something that let it proc on the rare stuff (VE SE ETC) to account for the the lost control, even if this is just a pity timer on rare drops, it would also be nice if it had a small chance to quad drop to account for smeeta buff stacking

 

5 hours ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

But im almost willing to bet someone out there found a way to make a sound notification when the buff appeared on their UI.

this is actually not a terrible idea by any means at all, visual and audio cues are great indicators to help players focus or even to help players with visual impairments, world of warcraft has an extensive customizable UI which via addon allows players to put meaningful visual indicators with sounds related to any buff on their character (maybe debuffs too)

when I first started playing warframe my friend told me to get Rhino to clear the starchat because "he is unkillable" but I couldn't stand him eventually as I was going though frames I landed on Nezha this was (you guessed it) ver y similar to Rhino for me except with a HUGE visual indicator on screen which made a distinct sound effect when his defenses turned on and again when they turned off.. for me being new this played much better because of those cues...

anyway rant off/

if someone figured out a way to do this they will likely be banned, afaik it's against the TOS to automate game play using 3rd party software even if its some minor "UI stuff"

also if this mythical player who automates gameplay exists, they are still going to afk with or without charm, it will just take them longer, the behavior would be a symptom of drop chances being too low and gameplay not being engaging enough, fix that and it fixes the "afk farmer" problem imo.

4 hours ago, Tsukinoki said:

I've ran across this in normal missions and it's always annoying AF....which is why I sometimes bring a Loki that can ST them into wherever they refuse to go to force them to continue the mission because their rare pickups are now "ruined" and they can just hurry to extraction

I assume most the serious "meta farmers" the ones DE claim to care about are doing it in solo probably to avoid this kind of disruption.