Lucky catch is a lot worse than Charm, change my mind!

[vFlitz]

1 hour ago, -ShadowRadiance- said:

Barely used smeeta b4 except on niche runs with Nekros. 

 

I see zero-ZERO downside to this. 

So basically you don't give a damn just because you have no experience to know what others are losing and can't even be bothered to look past the tip of your own nose.

As an opinion this is worse than irrelevant, and yet you still felt the urge to voice it for seemingly no reason other than being snide.

[Karyst]

9 hours ago, _Anise_ said:

So, the way I understand with the new mod most the time you're going to run into a loot pile and see something like:

• 6 Oxium
• 4 Control Modules
• 1 Nav Coordinate x2 ⬅️(catch)
• 2 Steel Essence

I understand the reasoning behind not wanting players to 'stand around' waiting for a loot buff to happen before collecting, and I never really did that. But, I often have the Smeeta buff activate at least once per mission, giving me a 156-second window (with Tek Enhance) to have an Acolyte spawn, be killed, and double my Steel Essence.

Doing some rough math, I estimate that the Smeeta Charm buff, without 'gaming the buff,' would roughly align with an Acolyte kill to get double essence about once every four missions, it also had the rare possibility to stack with itself multiple times, providing more than a 2x bonus!

Realistically With Lucky Catch, the chances of having the double loot align with your Steel Essence drop are quite low. Based on the math, it would take about 30 runs to achieve a 95% chance of the loot buff doubling your Acolyte loot, and around 45 to 50 runs for approximately a 99% chance to see your essence doubled once from an Acolyte kill.

In comparison, Lucky Catch seems to be significantly worse than Smeeta Charm,

change my mind!

They explained in detail the reasons why they are making the change and just because you don't do the stand around and find out, doesn't mean that there aren't others that don't do it either. In fact, the SE weekly purchase cap of kuva and relic packs and the 5min period after which SE dissapears were introduced for this exact same reason.

[SneakyErvin]

It's a 13% chance, or you can pick the other mod and get 18% that only applies to resources and not credits.

Sure it might be a bit of a nerf to the specific SE waiting tactic since Acolytes are so scarse, but it is a massive improvement to every other resource pretty much. It will for instance roll on every single Kuva Survival tower and on every single Kuva Demolisher kill etc. And since there is a cap on the weekly amount of Kuva from Teshin, it matters very little what impact it has on SE, since the SE needed for the Kuva is already obtained by just doing incursions each day and the odd endless for a while, which is far more time efficient. Which gives you enough spare SE aswell to build up over the 8 weeks before a new Umbra Forma BP shows up in the store.

Edited September 29 by SneakyErvin

[TeaHands]

It's gonna be a lot easier to get the pet mod for buffing resources now at least. Farming Kavats blows and trying to get Smeeta was so boring I gave up after getting 1 Kavat. I'm happy with this change.

[PurpleDraken]

il y a 50 minutes, SneakyErvin a dit :

It's a 13% chance, or you can pick the other mod and get 18% that only applies to resources and not credits.

Sure it might be a bit of a nerf to the specific SE waiting tactic since Acolytes are so scarse, but it is a massive improvement to every other resource pretty much. It will for instance roll on every single Kuva Survival tower and on every single Kuva Demolisher kill etc. And since there is a cap on the weekly amount of Kuva from Teshin, it matters very little what impact it has on SE, since the SE needed for the Kuva is already obtained by just doing incursions each day and the odd endless for a while, which is far more time efficient. Which gives you enough spare SE aswell to build up over the 8 weeks before a new Umbra Forma BP shows up in the store.

It's a nerf for every ressources, Kuva is farmed in Arbitration, not survival. You don't seem to really grasp how big of a loss the nerf actually is. Putting SE aside, after the update, if you want a specific ressources, you will feel the nerf after 20min of farming. 13%/18% doesn't means you will actually get it, if unlucky, it will never proc at all for rare ressources (Argon,Vitus,Tellure etc...). The current charm makes it that at least, by waiting, you can garanty x2 or more for that ressource.

[_Anise_]

8 hours ago, .Fire_Fly. said:

probably not a popular opinion but i don't even use smeeta i find the abilitie to be pretty useless

not going to deny you your rights not to use it but if I will contest the claim it's useless! if you ever farmed Scintillant or had to fish up those rare fish, will smeeta cuts those painful resource grinds in half now the only way to guarantee those drops is paying 40 plat for a booster (which with smeeta was a 4x drop) your 1 hour grind becomes a 15 minute grind, this is why people thought smeeta was S-tier.

8 hours ago, (PSN)Cephalon_Scarlet said:

Its not a nerf if it renders everything else worth using imo.  And by that i mean every other companions

the solution to make the mod universal is one I agree with and would on it's own massively reduce the demand on smeeta imo, but the changes they made the mod works, I am likely not even going to waste the mod spot for farming runs, it's probably just better to take a double drop frame instead which only applies to kills, like I don't think Ivara can pick pocket a steel essense can she?

5 hours ago, PristineCore said:

Smeeta Kavat Resource buff are 2.8% in total Calculation while the new mod around 10%, how this is worse ?

you didn't read my OP did you? Smeeta is a buff window, the buff window can double stack

1)Charm can give you 2x drops, 4x drops sometimes even 8x drops (or 16x)

2)the math does not work how you think it works, it's a 156s window, you know how much loot you can double in 156 seconds? more than 10% of your mission drops... like literally don't pick anything up until the buff happens and it doubles 100% of your mission drops (I know they want to eliminate that) but even so 156 is long enough that it can double your steel essense on avatage once every 4 missions without "trying"

3)you literally have ZERO control over what drops lucky charm works on, like I said its estimated you need to run 50 steel path missions before your steel essence gets doubled that is not guarantied.

how this is worse? that's 3 ways how it is worse

7 hours ago, FulfillMyWill said:

IMO, this is the same situation as with Void Dash -> void sling: DE saying "we are improving QoL" instead of "we are nerfing it" to reduce backlash

exactly, they are removing it from smeeta and giving all beast pets a much worse heavily nerfed version, while I agree the buff window how it worked probably had to go, but what this mod can't have a 1% chance to give 4x drops and a 0.5% chance to do 8x drops? like how the old buff could stack with itself? (made up percentages for example only)

They have the smeeta buff on the market, it lasts 3 days and costs 40 plat but a 156 second temporary buff is bad for the game! they could do more to make the new mod as good as the old smeeta buff, doing above for a start. maybe it could have some kind of pity timer on acolyte drops?

6 hours ago, Drachnyn said:

Yea it's a smeeta nerf, that's the point.

moving the buff off charm was enough to nerf smeeta, leaving it intact might have been enough to make beasts preferable to sentinels which can aoe prime everything every 2 seconds, kill steel path enemies and shoot targets 70 meters away! I welcome the new claw weapon but remains to be seen if it will do enough to bring up the balance.

5 hours ago, C11H22O1 said:

For the average person just going through the mission the new version is better especially since you can use it on a better pet

setting up and fishing for 2 hours you pet choice was near none existent, you either bring the fishing sentinel for free aquatic dye or you bring the smeeta for double drops occasionally, I can't state enough how immersive it is to have a cat help you fishing lol now when you fish the pet is Oxylus!

 

4 hours ago, (PSN)slightconfuzzled said:

Personally, whilst I am sad to see the change, I think their adjustments were relatively decent and creative

I wish they had just done a little more, ya know? like above giving it a lower chance to get 4x drops

4 hours ago, crimsonspartan1 said:

One end I'm glad we don't have to be tied down to our Smeetas for literally everything

I didn't use mine for everything, I used it when DE added new resource types on missions, when doing stuff like fishing, steel path, abitrations and anytime I had to level stuff, looks like I still am forced to use it for leveling, this nerf didn't do enough! (to smeeta) at 3x it made it even more mandatory for leveling stuff, I am actually confident if they had removed the XP boost from it no one would use smeeta at all!

edit:in fact I expect its use to drop off massively maybe they should have made charm give you decrees instead like the new warframe

33 minutes ago, PurpleDraken said:

You don't seem to really grasp how big of a loss the nerf actually is

its restricted a mechanic that used to be only be available for plat back to only being available for plat, maybe they could add a 2h double resources drop the the list of relay blessings?

anyway...

• They could have even kept the buff window and only applied the resource drop bonus to items that dropped AFTER the buff activated.. why was that not a solution? but I suspect the way chosen is far easier to implement on their end.

Edited September 29 by _Anise_

[PrideB4TheFall]

Perhaps a smaller subset of people... the dojo owners / decorators. Having a Smeeta with charm is a must. 

Thankfully, my dojo is 100% complete. But many other future owners will have a significantly harder time.

Seriously, Pablo just put a massive disincentive for Dojo owners to want to compete in the dpjo competitions. Also the quality of dojo design will very likely be diminished.

Edited September 29 by PrideB4TheFall

[PrideB4TheFall]

9 hours ago, .Fire_Fly. said:

probably not a popular opinion but i don't even use smeeta i find the abilitie to be pretty useless

Yeah... you're probably not a dojo owner either.

[Joylesstuna]

All they had to do is not let the charm buff stack. Really not happy with this change as it was my primary means of farming kuva from SE drops. 

[Traumtulpe]

There are two types of people, those who liked to bring a Smeeta when they were farming for loot, and those who are happy that their preferred companion just got buffed to drop them more loot.

Really why use a Smeeta now? For a 2.8% chance (or whatever it is) to get 3x affinity that'll proc on your way to extraction? Because you don't play long missions when leveling stuff.

Smeeta is dead, everyone who didn't use Smeeta got buffed. Egro some people are sad their beloved companion got gutted and everyone else is happy. Divide and conquer.

[Xzorn]

Buffs of the same type aren't supposed to stack. I dislike mechanical flaws and it amazes me it took them 8 years to address this.

That's kinda all I care about. When you make mechanical rules. You follow them.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

That was obvious. They're leveling the playing field. It was explained on the stream.

[Traumtulpe]

Honestly they could just give the Smeeta a flat +100% affinity earned always effect. There's no point using it for combat, there won't be a point in using it for Steel Essence or fishing etc., might as well make it the "level gear faster companion" - which it absolutely isn't with a random and rare buff (because XP *doesn't* work like loot and stays on the ground).

Currently it's the "doesn't do anything in particular except be a cute cat, oh and you get random effects every now and then companion".

[Traumtulpe]

5 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

They're leveling the playing field

Is that so?

So now I can either have a cat that gives everything 10 viral procs, drops health orbs like crazy, saves me like a guardian angel when I mess up and would have died, or...

Or I can have a cat that doesn't do anything meaningful. Maybe some enemies will get blinded by the decoy cat every now and then, except of course there's overguard so nevermind.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 minute ago, Traumtulpe said:

Is that so?

So now I can either have a cat that gives everything 10 viral procs, drops health orbs like crazy, saves me like a guardian angel when I mess up and would have died, or...

Or I can have a cat that doesn't do anything meaningful. Maybe some enemies will get blinded by the decoy cat every now and then, except of course there's overguard so nevermind.

Ask them. Not gonna argue semantics. 

[Traumtulpe]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Ask them. Not gonna argue semantics.

What even is that supposed to mean? There's no semantics, you can now either have an awesome combat companion that gives you 18% more loot, or you can have a combat irrelevant companion that gives you 18% more loot.

What an incredibly "leveled field"... not.

[vFlitz]

People need to exercise their critical thinking skills and try to realize that even if they haven't used Smeeta personally, making this heavily toned down mod for all beast companions isn't a 'good guy DE' moment. The amount of comments saying that they 'instead of just nuking Smeeta, they made this available for all pets' is baffling. This isn't not taking Smeeta/Charm behind the barn and shooting it, this is doing precisely that and merely telling the players it got sent to a farm upstate instead.

This isn't it like your usual weapon or frame nerf where you can just settle for a different strong option. It pertains to a conflict of interests between players who want to get stuff in a reasonable amount of time and developers who want to drive their engagement statistics and booster sales. After all, at the end of the day it's a business. It's not the first time, either. Extra loot abilities used to stack, changing that definitely wasn't a popular change, so clearly some notes on gaslighting players to soften the blow next time were taken.

Let's take a practical example. Suppose you have a backlog of prime frames to craft and you need 100 argon. You could have taken a Smeeta, maybe a Nekros, Hydroid or Khora, and go for a void surival. You could play entirely as usual, the sole difference being not picking argon drops up until Charm procs. It's not twiddling your thumbs and doing nothing or going afk or anything like that, you just keep playing as normal while the argon waits for you. You'd be able to pick up vast majority of the crystals at 2x, maybe some accidental pickups without the buff which would be more than offset by a lucky 4x proc if you get one, we can make a conservative estimate it'd take you about 40 to 55 drops to get 100 argon.

Now take the new mod. An average 13% increase in resources means you need 89 drops to get 100 argon, or 85 with the 18% variant. Maybe it'll be like 75 if you get really lucky, or it ends up hardly procing and you'll need 95. Point is, it's clearly substantially worse.

Of course, one can say the writing's been on the wall for this for a long time now, that it was inevitable, and there's nothing we can do but suck it up and move along. And that's probably true. Accept it if you want to, quit the game if you don't want to, I don't really care. But for the love of god, have some self respect and don't just blindly praise DE for looking out for their bottom line at players' expense and finally pulling the trigger.

[0_The_F00l]

I personally didn't enjoy how charm worked, I am looking forward to the changes.

While it is a net gain on average , I am under no illusions that it's a nerf to acquire rarer items with some pre planning. 

But I can live with that.

[_Anise_]

1 hour ago, Traumtulpe said:

doesn't do anything in particular except be a cute cat

tbh it went from a handful mandatory use cases to "I am never going to need to use smeeta ever again" it just dosn't do ANYTHING special anymore.

it might even not be worth using for the XP buff given the infrequency of it happening you could just max a warframe in the first round of ESO without it ever happening.

39 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

it is a net gain on average , I am under no illusions that it's a nerf to acquire rarer items with some pre planning

I have mixed feelings on that, while I am happy it's no longer mandatory I expected better management of how they made smeeta not mandatory and maybe better utility in the place they fixed it.

Edited September 29 by _Anise_

[PrideB4TheFall]

I'd just assume boycotting the dojo showcase honestly. This nerf has consequences most players can't begin to fathom, because they don't own / manage a dojo. Example: At shadow rank to place (1) Orokin  Standard Ring (a common asset seen in a dojo.) It costs the following:

1,500 credits

900 Salvage

600 Alloy Plate

300 polymer Bundle

1 Morphic

That may not seem like a lot, but when that ring becomes a repeating design element it piles up quicker than you might think.

In contrast crafting a Ceramic Dagger in your orbiter:

4 Gallium

500 Ferrite

500 Alloy Plate

600 Polymer Bundle

Craft it, rank it, install riven for whipclaw... 

 The need for the charm buff is obvious even to the brain dead. If you think I'm full of it, then please... create your own dojo.

Edited September 29 by PrideB4TheFall

[Rexis12]

55 minutes ago, vFlitz said:

Let's take a practical example. Suppose you have a backlog of prime frames to craft and you need 100 argon. You could have taken a Smeeta, maybe a Nekros, Hydroid or Khora, and go for a void surival. You could play entirely as usual, the sole difference being not picking argon drops up until Charm procs. It's not twiddling your thumbs and doing nothing or going afk or anything like that, you just keep playing as normal while the argon waits for you. You'd be able to pick up vast majority of the crystals at 2x, maybe some accidental pickups without the buff which would be more than offset by a lucky 4x proc if you get one, we can make a conservative estimate it'd take you about 40 to 55 drops to get 100 argon.

Oh, the more likely chance of the buff not happening and you run the full 100 runs of Argon collecting. 

I can't fathom people tolerating Smeeta's buff for the omega buff, when it also fails to spawn when you need it. 

I've literally ran 2 hour Survivals without the Smeeta Charm Proc. Not even the omega buff, just the normal Charm due to how bullS#&$ the RNG is. 

 

Like yes there's the surviving issue of all the drops and S#&$ in Warframe. But that Has nothing to do with Smeeta and Charm, should be it's own conversation. 

I've said it before, that if Warframe just removed a loot doubling ability while having absurd costs, it would be a scummy move. 

They decided to make it more consistent, and not reliant on absurd luck. Which is already better than what could have happened.

Bring up the drop issues on their own instead of the Smeeta thing. 

[tucker_d_dawg]

100% its a nerf to farming specific resources.

Sure in a pure #'s game, where all resources are created equal, the 13% math might add up.. but in reality, its a straight nerf.  

And with 4,800 steel essence I don't even use smeeta for that... but for vitus essence, whose horrific RNG makes farming it a miserable and frustratingly slow process,  I definitely timed it.  And the chances of that 13% triggering on the 0.0001% of drops that are actually vitus - well... thankfully I don't need anything from that vendor anymore, it was barely tolerable before to farm a few extra mods/kuva but with out the boost, no thanks.

 

[_Anise_]

2 hours ago, vFlitz said:

Point is, it's clearly substantially worse.

you also didn't include smeeta has the chance to just generate a planets rare resource, so for the void that is argon and if that part of the smeeta buff happens while the double resource buff is active you literally get 2xargon for free or 4 with a resource booster! or more for no reason than having a Smeeta with Charm, further rendering the old charm more useful than this current watered down universal beast iteration!

If you want to do this now, you'll need to run Smeeta with Charm and Lucky Catch. If the rare resource from Lucky Catch can stack with Charm, just keep in mind that you probably won't get more than 2x, since the RNG might not line up in your favor if this is how the new mod works.

1 hour ago, Rexis12 said:

literally ran 2 hour Survivals without the Smeeta Charm Proc. Not even the omega buff, just the normal Charm

not sure what you mean by the "omega buff" and just the "normal charm", do you mean it double stacking? anyway in a 2 hour run worst case you should get the double resources buff at least 12 times so in a 2 hour run it should be active for around 30 minutes of a run if its buffed at 150 seconds long

So I am not sure where people got the 13% from it looks to me more like 25% based on a 2 hour duration mission and calculations from warframe wiki that states the average wait time is 9 minutes combined with the additional duration from Tek Enhance.

Which raises another point, nothing buffs lucky catch like Tek enhance could buff charm! and clearly Tek enhance number has not been taken into account for the new Catch mod!

Edited September 29 by _Anise_

[stormy505]

it's worse for longer missions cause in a long mission the chance of getting the correct smeeta buff at some point in time during the mission is highly likely, so you could hold off on collecting the resources till that point to guarantee a double drop. It's better in shorter missions where you either can't or won't bother with waiting for the correct buff and just want the slightly boosted drop chance. It's also obviously better for every beast companion besides smeeta cause it reset the playing field and let's beasts get extra drops and their own unique buffs in addition.

I'm fine with the changes I guess. They said multiple times that smeeta was gonna get nerfed so I can't act surprised.

[CephalonOlphus]

8 hours ago, ReddyDisco said:

I would be upset about this a lot more if i were a newer player with lots of resources to grind for, but now couldn't care less.

my smeeta has been going on missions for over 7 years, time for a break old buddy.

Now new players don't need to jump the smeeta hurdle in the first place and will gradually get small amounts of doubled loot as they play, sure it's worse for dedicated farming, but it's better for the overall game