The Eviscerators Megathread

[Makemap]

Eviscerator are either bugged are need a look at. I do believe I lost 200 HP instantly from 1 sec of bleed damage.

[Tsukinoki]

@Makemap
Its because bleed can and will stack, meaning that regardless of your health (and armor doesn't matter as bleed damage ignores armor) so what happens is they will stack 3 or 4 bleeds on you and that will tick 7 times in 5 seconds leading to even the tankiest frames dieing with ZERO way to counteract it.

@Everyone who says bring heal restores:
THEY DONT WORK AGAINST BLEEDING.
Here is why:
Medium heal restore pulses once every 5 seconds for a total of 4 pulses in 20 seconds.
Bleeding hurts your health 7 times in 5 seconds.
Do you not see the issue there?
You can die before the heal restores pulse the first time, meaning that you have to somehow predict when you're going to get bleeding if you are facing 2 or 3 eviscerators in order to stand a chance at living.  And even then you'll need to drop 2 or 3 pads at a time.
The healing items are broken in that they are utterly useless against the 1 case where you actually need them.
They are NOT an answer to bleeding.

[SPiRALFACToR]

my favorite is when you run through a door and an  eviscerator is hiding behind the door frame and he hits you once and then you die from 150+ bleed ticks.

totally engaging gameplay right there. 

 

something needs to change.

[Valiant]

Yeah this is very bothersome. 

 

They need to hurry up and bring in the change whereby the proc's or at least bleeding, won't have any effect unless your shields have been depleted. 

[shut]

my favorite is when you run through a door and an  eviscerator is hiding behind the door frame and he hits you once and then you die from 150+ bleed ticks.

totally engaging gameplay right there. 

 

something needs to change.

Nah, man, the best part is when you're running around on Earth, invisible, and a sawblade aimed at a teammate ricochets off a crate and downs you in one tick.

[Xana_Skullsunder]

No you should not have to build your frame around 1 particular enemy.  But if you are personally having a particular problem then you need to address it.  It isn't a broken aspect of the game, that is universally shared it is a problem for some individuals who stubbornly don't want to take the steps to protect themselves.

 

In the most recent catalyst invasion I jumped in with some gear to level as I normally do for invasions.  Lvl ~25 unpotatoed burston and volt, level 12 or so Lato and Skana.  Stuff I sold off before I leveled it when I started playing.

I straight away died to eviscerators twice.  THEN my dumb &#! noticed oh... crap this is on Pluto and these are level 35 Grineer.  I finished that run without another near death, then picked up an appropriate primary weapon and finished the 2 more runs without a hint of an issue.

 

Once I was prepared it wasn't a problem.  The build on that volt is for maximum speed up time.  Level 2 redirection no health mods and only a R0 shield but with some attention, movement ability to kill the mobs the bleed didn't touch me.  So yes it is fine, possible and works to not use vitality or other mods specifically for one particular threat.  BUT if you are having an issue with that threat AND refuse to use the tools to counter that threat the fault is with you NOT the game.

 

That's a reasonable solution, but I still have a serious problem with this. I already build my Volt to be tanky. Mostly-Shield tanky, but tanky. Why am I getting wiped by a DoT, something a tank would normally have no issue with?

[animalwedding]

It's fine if DE is trying to make the game massively harder on the whole, but this definitely does not appear to be the case as Corpus doesn't have anything remotely as spiky as Eviscerators on their side. I've seen fully modded level 30 frames getting rocked on Earth by level 8-12 Eviscerators, which seemed pathetic until it happened to me. Now, I love challenging gameplay (something Warframe is currently sorely lacking in), but honestly this seems entirely unintentional and subverts a lot of the progression that is supposed to come from levelling up without providing any strategic satisfaction. Not to mention, it's even harder for lower level players progressing through Earth who don't yet have weapons/mods that can 1-shot Eviscerators.

[MiasmaGrowlmon]

Does anyone else find these enemies a little bit ridiculous? I'm not sure if it's just me, but I find it easier to kill the stalker than it is to kill one of these things. Their slash damage is over the top, shields do not matter as I always get a ridiculous amount of bleed time that deals minimum 30 damage a second, usually >5sec.  That's 150 damage to health minimum.

 

"Don't attack it in close quarters"

I've heard this many times, I get out of there as soon as possible as the blades seem to be easier to dodge... and then they bounce off of stuff behind me and hit me anyway, plus it's got a ridiculous fire rate and never reloads.

 

"Tank it," "iron skin"

Don't try it.  Don't. It doesn't work. Seriously, 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5tveO2nRSk

 

I'd use vitality, but there's too many eviscerators anyway so eventually health would go down all the way one way or another.

 

Anyways, does anyone have any tips about combating these damn things practically? And should they be tweaked?

[[DE]Rebecca]

Does anyone else find these enemies a little bit ridiculous? I'm not sure if it's just me, but I find it easier to kill the stalker than it is to kill one of these things. Their slash damage is over the top, shields do not matter as I always get a ridiculous amount of bleed time that deals minimum 30 damage a second, usually >5sec.  That's 150 damage to health minimum.

 

"Don't attack it in close quarters"

I've heard this many times, I get out of there as soon as possible as the blades seem to be easier to dodge... and then they bounce off of stuff behind me and hit me anyway, plus it's got a ridiculous fire rate and never reloads.

 

"Tank it," "iron skin"

Don't try it.  Don't. It doesn't work. Seriously, 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5tveO2nRSk

 

I'd use vitality, but there's too many eviscerators anyway so eventually health would go down all the way one way or another.

 

Anyways, does anyone have any tips about combating these damn things practically? And should they be tweaked?

Merged topic of same name here, let the discussion continue!

[Kipp-vas-Xerinae]

Now we have Frontier Eviscerators on Earth i feel bad for the new players especially with low rank shield/health, the worst part is that the Eviscerators have rapidfire Miter with high bleed proc chance plus on top of that bleed proc can stack which is pretty deadly even to more sturdy warframes.

[DiabolusUrsus]

Does anyone else find these enemies a little bit ridiculous? I'm not sure if it's just me, but I find it easier to kill the stalker than it is to kill one of these things. Their slash damage is over the top, shields do not matter as I always get a ridiculous amount of bleed time that deals minimum 30 damage a second, usually >5sec.  That's 150 damage to health minimum.

 

"Don't attack it in close quarters"

I've heard this many times, I get out of there as soon as possible as the blades seem to be easier to dodge... and then they bounce off of stuff behind me and hit me anyway, plus it's got a ridiculous fire rate and never reloads.

 

"Tank it," "iron skin"

Don't try it.  Don't. It doesn't work. Seriously, 

 

I'd use vitality, but there's too many eviscerators anyway so eventually health would go down all the way one way or another.

 

Anyways, does anyone have any tips about combating these damn things practically? And should they be tweaked?

 

I think they should definitely be tweaked. They're like glass cannons minus the glass part. They deal enough damage that they SEEM like they should be squishier to compensate for that advantage. They don't look like they wear much armor, either. Still, they'd be a lot more manageable if the bleed proc could be changed to not proc through shields.

As far as for how to combat them... I actually find an easier time of it in melee, ironically enough. It seems like they don't have a bash attack, and their rotation speed is less than stellar. If I can close in with them when they're not actively shooting me, I can run circles around them while landing charge attacks. Risky as all hell, but satisfying because it works 95% of the time for me. Of course, scratch that method when there are more then one of them. Which is most of the time.

[Onisa]

If only our Miters were as good as the Eviscerator's Miter.

But I agree that bleed shouldn't happen until you've lost hp to the attack. Impact through shields? Makes sense. Bleeding when you're physically unharmed? Not so much.

 

 

Except Valkyr has the highest possible armor and can have a ton of health. Valkyr would theoretically be the best defense against a crazy Evil Eviscerator next to Iron Skin. Unless bleed procs aren't affected by armor, in which case they're even more broken.

 

 

Yeah, that's not really a valid criticism, Volume. Less so since the only Pro-Corpus frames I seem surviving taking on the Grineer in these latest higher-end Invasions are JUST Valk/Rhino, since they can panic and pop invuln/iron skin to get through the "Nightmare Mode No Oxygen/Shields" section of Napalms/Evicerators.

 

I do believe the joke went over your heads.

[Ziegrif]

Here's the thing.

 

When fighting Grineer you need to be prepared for a ridiculous amount of things.

 

Armor, Bleed, Grabs, Rollers, Fire, More Bleed and you basically have to fight them at long range.

 

Napalms need radiation dmg, Heavy Gunners need corrosive, Evis kill you pretty much immediately if they get close. Even my Valkyr got punked out in 2 seconds flat.

 

These three need to be fought long range but now enter scorpions who pull you in and give everything that requires close range time to destroy you, which requires you to either take sure footed or a frame that is immune to Scorpions pull. Hell Napalms only need others to keep you busy for a bit while they blast the place down with AOEs.

 

No other faction has this kind of synergy. Corpus just charge you at mid range and try to apply pressure and take you down. Infested handle the same way but with just melee attacks basically just swarming you. Hell I once had to give up a mission because I ran out of ammo against Grineer and had no other way to try and take them down!

 

The Grineer are the hardest enemies in this game just for the fact that you need to be prepared for them in a much more thorough way than any other faction and they have no direct counter like Mag for Corpus and everyone ever for Infested. 

 

Either somethings gotta give or Corpus and Infested need to be elevated to the same level. Or just give us something to counter Eviscerators. Bloody hell do they annoy me. 

[Telogor]

"Use Vitality"

What kind of person would use Vitality on a caster frame that only has room for one defense mod?  Shields are far better because they regenerate.

[exserenses]

every time i get out of invisibility as loki and an eviscerator looks at me, i start to bleed then i die

[DavidSPD]

Glad I'm not the only one that finds them horribly balanced. They're not wearing the giant armor that the other Grineer are, yet they take 5x as much damage. Not sure how the logic with that works.

 

And yeah, on more than one occasion I've gotten tapped as Ember or Nova and died from bleed.

 

Even as Valkyr these guys are terrifying. There is definitely something wrong with this picture. If you ask me they either need to have their defenses nerfed, or add some kind of delay to their firing rate. Hell, make their weapons require "revving" up so we know one is going to fire, and give us a little time to either shoot back or get out of the way. 

 

I'm fine with challenging enemies, but these guys seem to have all the bonuses of being mini-bosses, but as regular mobs they don't have any downsides either.

[Darkwave1098]

Napalms need radiation dmg, Heavy Gunners need corrosive, Evis kill you pretty much immediately if they get close. Even my Valkyr got punked out in 2 seconds flat.

 

Of course she is gonna get punked, armor is broken and doesn't seem to mitigate any kind of damage whatsoever.

 

On topic: Why not remove Bleed from enemies all together? Dying with full shields is neither fun nor challenging.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Darkwave1098

[Calayne]

I think the Eviscerators provide a rare challenge that only the Corpus provide: dodgeable projectiles. That being said, I dislike their ability to bypass shields even more than I dislike their over-powered bleed values.

I suggest the following: do not allow bleeding while shields are up, and when bleed does occur, it takes a percentage of your health rather than a percentage of the damage. I humbly suggest 5%, does not stack, but proccing again causes a timer renewal.

Secondly, allow block to reflect these flying cartwheels of bloody dismemberment, and make it such that what is reflected in this manner instead eviscerates their allies or themselves.

Lastly, tone down the fire rate to less than 1.5, or including a charge time or signalling mechanism.

Now the most important step: apply the same to Scorpions.

Further, I'd like to add that knockdown is another frustrating element that takes away player interaction and causes unnecessary death, all while being unfaithful to lore. If melee 2.0 is coming, I dearly hope and pray (with sacrifices of tribute, of course) that DE revise this tactic our enemy employs. Or, perhaps, allow us a measure of response while incapacitated in such a degrading manner.

Edited February 10, 2014 by Calayne

[Deidaku]

For earth enemies they're disproportionately hard to beat , ...like all earth units btw 

[ThePresident777]

So, I know Eviscerators were changed a while ago (bleed damage was reduced I think), and I don't know if this has been a persistent problem, but after playing a bit today after U12, I noticed that the Eviscerators are insanely strong. So, I wanted to test it a bit.

 

I ran an Invasion mission solo against lvl 24 enemies as Rhino. Used rank 6/10 Blind Rage, maxed Focus, and maxed Iron Skin to give myself the most Iron Skin I could manage.

 

First, I went to a Heavy Gunner and tanked his barrage of bullets. I used Iron Skin a few times, and overall it took around 12-15 seconds of constant fire for him to deplete my skin.

 

Then, I went to an Eviscerator. Not only did it take 7-10 blades (can be shot within 3-5 seconds), but in between Iron Skins (really short time-frame), I got a bleed proc, and that one bleed killed me. (Might have been stacked with others, but getting multiple procs would also prove the point of their crazyness).

 

Personally, I think they are unique, exciting, and definitely a welcome challenge to the game, However, my main issue with these enemies is that they are considered, what I like to call, "Uncommon". Where Lancers and Elite Lancers give low exp and spawn constantly, they are "Common". Heavy Gunners, Napalms, etc spawn about 1 or maybe 2 in a room on a normal mission, and give a lot of exp, so I consider them "Rare". Troopers and Eviscerators spawn at least 3-4 in every room and give medium exp, so I call them "Uncommon".

However, the threat that these enemies pose by themselves is insane. Put 2 or 3 together with a group of low-ranked players, and there will be no Frames left standing.

 

Also of note, while they have the exact same defensive stats as Elite Lancers, they definitely take a ton more hits to go down. 

 

TL;DR Eviscerators to insane damage, which would be okay if they didn't spawn with 3 others in every room.

 

Why not take cover?  I find people try to face tank everything a little much.  Only a few enemy units bum rush the player.  Most ranged units do the sensible thing and maintain range unless you approach them..

 

What is your estimated TTK against them?  Did you have trouble killing them?

[Riccoshot]

Slash proc need to be halfed on the first planets (up to Earth) like Buthcers proc was halfed. Just for the new players.

I didn't died a single time from Eviscerators bleed proc, seriously. Cause, yeah, blades are pretty dodgeable and the chance you'll get hit be a rebound after it is not on my "the things you can die from"-list either.

[Xylia]

Sticking these overpowered mobs on Earth is a mistake, I'm not sure how DE thinks starter frames with low mods and Bratons are supposed to handle these guys (they can take quite a pounding from later-game weapon compared to lancers or even troopers).

 

Their rate of fire needs to go way down; we players have to charge our miters to get anywhere near that kind of damage while they can just machinegun the stupid things.

 

SO, IMO:

 

1). 1/2 the firing speed

2). 1/2 bleed damage

3). 1/2 bleed proc

4). -25% health

 

Would bring these guys in line.

 

And God Forbid there happen to be a Regulator nearby... haha. You're dead nearly instantly even with a 500-health 'frame.

[Xylia]

Why not take cover?  I find people try to face tank everything a little much.  Only a few enemy units bum rush the player.  Most ranged units do the sensible thing and maintain range unless you approach them..

 

What is your estimated TTK against them?  Did you have trouble killing them?

 

Taking cover doesn't work when the stupid blades are ricocheting everywhere. In fact, taking cover usually puts you at a *worse* position unless you run clear back a room to avoid the ricochets.

[Wahooo]

Taking cover doesn't work when the stupid blades are ricocheting everywhere. In fact, taking cover usually puts you at a *worse* position unless you run clear back a room to avoid the ricochets.

To most people taking cover means doing it just like the AI that people are complaining about.  Frankly just don't stop moving.  Break LOS behind something and keep moving around.  Then pop out and shoot.  OR most frames have some kind of CC.  use it on these guys.

 

Glad I'm not the only one that finds them horribly balanced. They're not wearing the giant armor that the other Grineer are, yet they take 5x as much damage. Not sure how the logic with that works.

 

And yeah, on more than one occasion I've gotten tapped as Ember or Nova and died from bleed.

 

Even as Valkyr these guys are terrifying. There is definitely something wrong with this picture. If you ask me they either need to have their defenses nerfed, or add some kind of delay to their firing rate. Hell, make their weapons require "revving" up so we know one is going to fire, and give us a little time to either shoot back or get out of the way. 

 

I'm fine with challenging enemies, but these guys seem to have all the bonuses of being mini-bosses, but as regular mobs they don't have any downsides either.

As much as I have been in the boat that people need to suck it up and deal with an actual challenge... this post right here says everything that needs to be said.  They aren't broken because they are a challenge, they are just unbalanced.  Something that kills like they do should be more glass cannony.  They need to be more Glassy to go with the Cannon.

 

BTW did scorches get a nerf?  Not that long ago they were the hated enemies that were too OP and instantly (read several seconds by most accounts) everyone including full tank Rhino frames.

Is it just that more people are doing the invasions now where the Evisceratores used to be kinda isolated to Phobos and now that they are in more places the scorches and bombards and napalms don't look so bad?

[tmtke]

Btw as I was reading the OP and the discussion, I seriously think you guys need to get some tactic skill under your warframes. Recently I played a lot of invasion missions against grineer, because I just hate the fact they've taken over the starchart.

 

What I was watching:

* Most players, even on unlit corridors, tend to rush in without thinking, but as stated above, eviscerators often hiding around the corners.

* They are real cowards. They are running behind corners and stuff, and this is exploitable.

* Yes, their bleed proc seems a bit OP, but it IS avoidable with a bit thinking.

* Again, most of the players aren't using their long range weapons, they are going close quarters instead.

 

Most of you guys already played the new invasion teleport area, which ends up in a room and a long corridor on the grineer side. I've easily cleaned that room or corridor with Ember's fireball + Dread + Wraith twin vipers. Yes, there were times when I went down, mostly when I was trying to revive fools who run into the mobs.

 

So, get a weapon which have punch through effect to make sure it hits through stuff, and/or have an AOE effect, because they aren't that tough. And use your warframe abilities, for god's sake, that's why they are there.