Arcwing- It's A Poorly Added Flashey-Thing That Gives Nothing To The Base Game.

[John89brensen]

Then again, the railgun shot is composed mostly of energy (in which the shields seem to have a resistance with). 

Railgun is not an energy weapon. Railguns use a magnetic field to accelerate a projectile, as in halo's MACs, or almost every weapon in the Mass Effect universe.

[Renegade343]

Railgun is not an energy weapon. Railguns use a magnetic field to accelerate a projectile, as in halo's MACs, or almost every weapon in the Mass Effect universe.

In which most of the impact comes from the energy supplied, and really less of the projectile than the conventional bullet. 

[Xikiri]

The particular piece I have quoted from you was already shot down by [DE]Steve before U15 even came out. He said they tried it, and it was too confusing.

Too confusing? There's a game called Freelancer from a good few years ago. They could simply study that and its mechanics. I'm pretty sure with today's advancement in gaming, they'd be able to get a grasp of what to do.

[Kasumi-]

Too confusing? There's a game called Freelancer from a good few years ago. They could simply study that and its mechanics. I'm pretty sure with today's advancement in gaming, they'd be able to get a grasp of what to do.

...well then good for them.

 

That's just what they said, there is nothing I can do about their decision.

[Innocent_Flower]

So, I think It'd be pretty cool if archwing enemies attacked you without the archwing as minibosses/Heavies/infantry. 

 

 

Jetpack crewmen (or are they techs?) as simple additions to the crewmen. 

 

Dregs Would be an equivelent to a heavy osprey. Floating weapon-platforms. There to support the ground troops.

 

Dargyns would harass the player. Think of how hek comes into a mission, fights, runs away, appears later in the mission. They'd come in as groups. 

 

 

I'm unsure if the osprey in AW missions are going to be replaced with actual frigates/corvettes/carriers (ships) But, if they aren't, they could be put into common missions like their grineer counterparts. Actually If they were made into ships they could still be put into normal missions as minibosses. Raptor could join them. 

Edited November 4, 2014 by Innocent_Flower

[ThePredicament]

I would love something like that. Would make open world battles so much more epic. But they really need to fix up health and scaling issues. A ship that can be one shot by a Marelok on foot but take a ton of shots in AW would just be odd.

[taiiat]

having them appear from time to time like 'minibosses' sounds like a good addition.

[Mcl_Blue]

When playing and seeing those giant Ospreys, I was actually thinking of the opposite, and wondering if it would be interesting to see Raptors as Archwing enemies.

[Rajko]

It'd be pretty amazing if some of those grineer EVA hardsuits straffed in to support the ground troops on open skybox zones...

[IfritKajiTora]

For me this Archwing what we got in game right now it is early alpha version just to show us how its feeling and some other things.
I really did not enjoy the Archwing, there are some map missing like entering the greenier ship etc. There is not even a guard button for melee weapon.

I enjoyed it at the beggining because I wanted to see and feel it on my PC, move around. But When I learned how it is and passed all missions I'm like......what? thats it? nothing more? really anoying, so much time waiting and only that we got. They should make space place where you can travel, just like a new planet but just cosmos. It could be put somewhere beetwen Planets and the sun. Press once and show us all missions just like chosing one of the planets. And they could make One boss fight just like on LIve stream where they show us that you can enter greenier ship. something like that, it would look betterthan just one mission for archwing on everyplanet, missions are so repetive and ofcourse random like all others and no single Boss fight.

[Taranis49]

In which most of the impact comes from the energy supplied, and really less of the projectile than the conventional bullet. 

 

That... doesn't make sense. Basic physics, kinetic energy is kinetic energy, which is the energy of a body due to its motion (in this case, a projectile), regardless of how it's delivered, there's only two factors that matter: speed and mass of the round. All of the energy the weapon imparts to a target comes from the kinetic energy of the projectile's impact... no projectile, no KE. It doesn't suddenly become a different type of energy simply because the slug's accelerated via magnets rather than gunpowder.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Taranis49

[Renegade343]

That... doesn't make sense. Basic physics, kinetic energy is kinetic energy, which is the energy of a body due to its motion (in this case, a projectile), regardless of how it's delivered, there's only two factors that matter: speed and mass of the round. All of the energy the weapon imparts to a target comes from the kinetic energy of the projectile's impact... no projectile, no KE. It doesn't suddenly become a different type of energy simply because the slug's accelerated via magnets rather than gunpowder.

What I mean is: 

 

The damage comes more from the energy by the projectile than the solid projectile itself. 

 

In conventional bullets, some of the damage also comes from the solid projectile itself due to fragmentation and such (i.e.: More tissue damage from sharp fragments). In railgun shots, more of the damage comes from the energy by the projectile. 

[Liminal]

 It's a poorly added flashey-thing that gives nothing to the base game.

You are wrong: it adds a completely different game to it. Duct taped to the side and everything! :P

 

But no, seriously: while I am kind of disappointed by AW too, I know most of your criticisms (which I agree with) can be addressed in the future. And imagine a mission in which you alternate between fighting on foot and flying around in the AW! That would be pretty sweet.

[MichaelSD]

No alternating between gamemodes. After Limbo, I am happy not to play archwing's primitive game mode for a long time. It is a mediocre shooter at best.

[xethier]

having spent the better part of 3 days working on the uranus interception missions trying to get the parts for the elytron... i'm going to say that this isn't fun.

 

i've tried with zephyr and valkyr. and to be honest, valkyr works much better due to the armor bonuses. zephyr goes down basically one-hit as you're stunlocked by missiles. (which seem to ignore your #2 ability and blast the hell out of you regardless, even through the #1 in addition)

 

either way, with capped mods, catalyzed archwing & weapons, you're still able to be overrun in moments due to the inability to determine where the fire is coming from. if a mob is above or below you, actually being able to aim and move the view quickly enough to fire is frustrating at best and impossible at worst. factor in their ability to stun-lock you and you're relegated to spamming 4 to stay alive. 

 

i'm not going into this without experience or mods. i've finished all the weapons & the first archwing, and i have all but the most rare mods. (and i'm running with corrosive damage on both weapon) killing quickly isn't the problem. killing enough of them is.

add in the stunlock and yeah...

 

the WORST aspect of this is the groups. players will immediately quit if they aren't rezzed (in pubs anyway) causing a host migration with ends about 70% of the time with a trip back to the liset without a single mod or credit to show for it.

 

overall, i liked the archwing concepts but the uranus mission is just beyond the point where i consider this entertaining, it's just frustrating.

the neptune mission has mobs of equivalent level that i can breeze through solo with minimal effort by comparison.

i don't know exactly what the thinking was on uranus, but it's absurd.

[jwapplephobia]

Uranus isn't too bad after 15.1. You can kill enemies faster than they spawn, at least with a basic corrosive + base damage Imperator, so what's left is staying reactive to where the enemy is attacking, and keeping the pressure on. If you screw up a bit and let some enemies build up, Flare and Disarray.

I still have to use a revive or two typically, however.

[xethier]

Uranus isn't too bad after 15.1. You can kill enemies faster than they spawn, at least with a basic corrosive + base damage Imperator, so what's left is staying reactive to where the enemy is attacking, and keeping the pressure on. If you screw up a bit and let some enemies build up, Flare and Disarray.

I still have to use a revive or two typically, however.

 

this has been my experience when playing solo.

 

the problem is, with a group (in this case PUG) the spawn is increased drastically, and since the main "body" of enemies tends to stick together. it requires the players support each other... not exactly common behavior for PUGs.

 

add in the behavior of most hosts in these cases and you can see the problems.

this is one of the only times i can remember in warframe where playing solo is actually preferable to group play. (trolls not withstanding)

[-InV-igo95862]

My biggest problem with Archwing is what almost no interactivness or counter-play involved in it. You and your enemies have hit-scan weapons that instantly hit and free space between you. Basically it is a rail shooter. If your sheilds go down all you can do is circle around some asteroid until they recharge.

 

If weapons would become projectile based rather then hit-scan then a new layer of gamplay would immerge - predicting your opponent movement to shoot in advance of his movement to hit him. (like in most airplanes simulators) Of cause enemies should also start moving around rather then just standing still and firing.

 

And please remove forced extarction. There are no clear indicators where is a mission area starts and ends. It only brings frustration. Make it like on regular maps there you just teleport back to area.
 

[Ritchel]

I think we are likeminded people, i love everything you said here OP.
and im sure your ideas will be better put into this game. 

archwing should be put somehow to the normal gameplay
its so bad that its a separate world.

its so kewl and everything but the execution is terrible. 

i dont know how and whose behind the idea of archwing being a separate world
i was thinking way back that it would be somehow much MUCH MUCH more creative. 

it reminds me of the fail kubrow system. again. sigh what a waste. i hope they revamp it.

 

[xethier]

My biggest problem with Archwing is what almost no interactivness or counter-play involved in it. You and your enemies have hit-scan weapons that instantly hit and free space between you. Basically it is a rail shooter. If your sheilds go down all you can do is circle around some asteroid until they recharge.

 

If weapons would become projectile based rather then hit-scan then a new layer of gamplay would immerge - predicting your opponent movement to shoot in advance of his movement to hit him. (like in most airplanes simulators) Of cause enemies should also start moving around rather then just standing still and firing.

 

And please remove forced extarction. There are no clear indicators where is a mission area starts and ends. It only brings frustration. Make it like on regular maps there you just teleport back to area.

 

 

only the grineer are using hit-scan, the corpus still have projectile travel. -- however the maps are the problem with the grineer.

the corpus maps have plenty of cover and ways to avoid being swamped, coupled with non-hitscan weapons. (quanta ranger not withstanding)

the grineer, on the other hand, the maps are huge, wide-open and they're using hit-scan weaponry... this seems backwards.

forced extraction is only a problem while the mobs spawn outside the boundaries. once that's fixed i doubt it will be a problem.

 

 

I think we are likeminded people, i love everything you said here OP.

and im sure your ideas will be better put into this game. 

archwing should be put somehow to the normal gameplay

its so bad that its a separate world.

its so kewl and everything but the execution is terrible. 

i dont know how and whose behind the idea of archwing being a separate world

i was thinking way back that it would be somehow much MUCH MUCH more creative. 

it reminds me of the fail kubrow system. again. sigh what a waste. i hope they revamp it.

 

 

i'm sure the idea was to lock-down the bugs in the differing modes. i have no doubt that DE is interested in combining the two systems eventually... once the problems with archwing are resolved. no sense introducing transitional bugs before the various elements are resolved in regular play.

[TwiceDead]

Nope. 

I enjoy the Archwings, and I definitely appreciate the difficulty on the Uranus Intercept mission. 

 

It has bugs and some questionable decisions now, sure, but it will grow and eventually be great. For now it's just good. 

[RoninJed]

I don't mind the archwing missions and I'm sure they will improve in time (hopefully sooner rather then later). It feels like it fits in with the rest of the game and adds a slight change to how you play the game. Now what don't understand and really hope DE doesn't spend lots of time and resources on is swimming in warframe. When I heard about this being added into warframe my first thought was...why? I haven't seen any topics on or don't know anyone who said we need to be able to swim in water in warframe. I mean really why the hell do we need to be able to swim? All I see coming from swimming is a new laundry list of bugs.

Edited November 7, 2014 by RoninJed

[Davoodoo]

Sure archwing is flashy, i wont deny that.

 

BUT OH GOD THESE MECHANICS.

If ground melee was done same way as archwing one but on smaller scale we wouldnt even need stances and whole melee 2.0(btw archwing solves all melee 1.0 problems, while melee 2.0 is what i call flashy but pointless).

Dodging, no matter how much someone tries to convince me how important dodging is in main i remind them of hitscan enemies, no such thing in archwing dodging is core mechanic and it works, rejoice everyone who want skill based gameplay(though its still far away)

Ammo problems solved once and for all?? why bother with ammo pickups, put mag size, adjust reload and go, suddenly even most inefficient weapons become as good choice as ogris, while ogris becomes little less viable choice by reload speed nerf.

Less broken powers, sure energy system is still at fault and powers are still spammable but even repel is nothing compared chaos, disarm or stomp.

Mods power reduced, still have my gripes about amount of dmg which mods add but its still better than ground combat.

 

Edit: I feel like i should add this though, it bothers me how it took them to develop this minimalistic set of mechanics.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Davoodoo

[TheDoctah]

Archwing looks like a super watered down version of Starfox 64, just with much better graphics. Think it was said that this project took a whole year. People should be concerned about this dev team, they take a year on this project and you can barely even call it half-baked. It's the flash with no bang. The fact that it's just filled with so many problems, also tells me that they probably didn't test it all that much. The grind to get the archwing is the same BS we've had to put up with for the last... oh wait, I don't think there's been a update that didn't include extreme rng, extreme grind, and a flood of bugs and bad mechanics that will get "looked" at for several months, and see nothing really change with it. I mean really, the only people at DE that honestly put in great work imo, is the art team. The game looks amazing and I've said that since I started posting on these forums about the art team. That's where it stops with me though. DE has added a bunch of weapons that probably at least 90% of them need to be looked at for a number of reasons. They dug themselves their own hole with that though.  You can call this a beta, but how many bugs and critical core mechanics has been addressed in this game vs the amount of time the devs put in for shiny weapons and frames for us to buy? The way they have developed this game looks like they're hiding behind the beta tag. I'm under the opinion that a new voice kind of needs to step in on this project. Cause all we're getting is shiny toys and more grind. No real story, no new  enemies with changing mechanics. Just grind and toys. Nice people, would have a drink with that dev team. but I seriously question their ability at this point.

[Corvid]

trieuazn0, on 31 Oct 2014 - 03:50 AM, said:trieuazn0, on 31 Oct 2014 - 03:50 AM, said:

-Dosent any kind of Mass object have its own Gravity pull? ie. Giant rocks.

 

-Space is cold as hell, we can hardly Protect ourself from the Over reacted Air-con in the ships, i dont understand how the Frames survive the cold in space

 

-Looking form what ive seen during the interceptiom, the warframes should have been ripped to shreads from how fast it goes. not becasue of air resistience, but form the space junk just lying around, Making contact with any small space Debreee at the speed of 300m/second and the warframe would have been filled with holes already

 

-Yes, but in order for it to have any noticable effect, the object must be huge. The asteroids in AW missions are nowhere near as large as they would need to be. Gravity is a relatively weak force.

 

-False. Space is not cold, nor is it hot. Without matter to transfer heat via conduction and convection, the only way to lose heat is by radiation, which is extremely slow. In fact, the main design issue with spaceships is how to prevent heat buildup.

 

-This only applies if the object travelling at those speeds is unprotected. Since warframe armour is capable of withstanding all manner of impacts, burns and explosive blasts without rupturing, space debris (that is the correct spelling, for future reference) would do pretty much nothing. Then, when you factor shielding into the equation it becomes rather obvious why we aren't "filled with holes". Not to mention the fact that there doesn't appear to be any debris larger than a few molecules across in the game.

 

This has been your science supplement for tonight.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Corvid