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[DE]Glen

Strict Nat: Improvements And Testing

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I'd like a 'NETWORK DIAGNOSTIC' page in the launcher, which can test these issues before we launch the game. 

 

It would have TL;DR descriptions of issues detected and point to forum "Players Helping Players" posts on how to fix the internet settings.

 

The forums then can be updated as needed without mnessing with the launcher code. 

 

The launcher would demonstrate everything peachiy perfect with a green light, stuff which can be transparently bypassed by the game with proxies with yellow light, and stuff which may cause problems with red light. 

 

You should add telemetry and transparent upload of diagnostic data for the yellow cases and red cases so that you have more data to work with. 

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it seems i'm part of the 0.00x% of the remaining people this fix was supposed to help yet didn't, (or more likely couldn't) as i'm still getting the same login warning on strict nat and still experience quite a bit of failed session invitations. I already did my research and it is indeed my ISP's issue but i was hoping this new experimental code could get past that. (though i'm already planning to switch ISP anyway)

 

At any rate, thanks for the hard work and here's to hoping we get more connectivity improvements to get around inevitable and restrictive internet issues.

Edited by Xarugas
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Experiences with the new change so far seem rather impressive... am aware of at least one situation that should be technically impossible that this converted in to only "highly problematic".

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So stoked for this.

 

This has been one of my greatest problems in the game. And no solution to it on my end as my ISP itself implements multiple NAT layers to save on IPs and cheat on subscribers blah blah (the only solution is to burn the entire country and establish anew from scratch but that's impossible- i am not joking).

 

I'll be keeping watch on this as it rolls out.

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When I saw this I thought we were finally getting a fix for the port issue. I've never once heard of this strict NAT issue, what I hear all the time from really a lot of players from both clans I've been and personal friends in is the port issue (please ensure ports ...). This message comes up briefly after logging in and it's impossible to form a party with most other players. At least on the user's side, everything is configured correctly but the issue persists. I've had a 100% success rate with getting around this problem by using a VPN. I've had countless conversations like this:

 

Failed to join.

Do you get a port error message when loggging in?

Yes. I've tried everything, can't be fixed.

Try using a VPN.

OMG OMG OMG it works! I've had this problem since ever!

 

Needless to say having to use a VPN sucks, pretty bad. Myself and others I have spoken to can say we play a whole lot of online games and have never had such issues. So, what's this about? Can we get a solution please? Could this just be a really unfortunate choice of ports that are frequently blocked by ISPs? If so can we get a choice of some that aren't?

Edited by Mudfam

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i am not behind a strict nat and very rarely have issues with this, but occasionally i do get the strictnat warning when logging in, it doesnt affect me when playing joining etc, i am currently in a dmz (always have it set for my pc) and have forwarded the correct ports for myself and also my second pc which my son plays WF on occasionally, so why do i get this message from time to time,

Edited by cannonfodder1982

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From my perspective nothing have changed.

 

Every time i have to pm at least 6-7 players to finally join someone.

Today when i was on recruiting i was still forced to do the same thing.

 

The biggest issue with sitrict Nat isnt matchmaking for me. The worst thing is when you want to play with your friends and you cant because someone who was host for you all the time quit from the game. You simply cannot connect and you have to use VPN etc software which is very unstable and you get dc many times.

 

I dont know but this solution seems more like bandaid rather than final fix, there is many games using p2p mechanic and i never had issues with connectivity to other players in those games. In warframe we just cant connect for some reason.

 

It only mean that there is a way to do it right.

 

I really hope that there will be a day when this issue will be finally fixed.

 

Good luck DE_Glen :)

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Will this feature also work on consoles or is it just for pc?

 

It will be coming to PS4, too -- I think XB1 will need a bit of work to adapt the technology but we'll try.

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or, preferably, you can copy without Formatting. 

Browsers of all brands have started deciding that people want that all of a sudden. suddenly deciding that if someone copies text from a page that they wanted the text color and background color.

when.... all they wanted was the damn words.

i flip back and forth between a Utility Plugin to copy without Formatting, or pasting into a plain text editor and copying back out of it to drop the formatting.

IIRC there's also a shortcut been added to various Browsers to Copy without Formatting, but it's not the default copy shortcut for some reason....

you'd think that when adding a feature that most won't want, IT would get the new shortcut, rather than stealing the conventional one.

You can just right click and hit "paste as plain text" or do control-shift-v

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I hope this works out and Moderate and Strict NATs become a non-issue. I know that it's impossible for me to NOT be a Moderate NAT because my router is provided to me by my ISP and does not provide UPnP support. I know, it's sad, but it was either that, or stay with Comcast, and the latter was not gunna happen.

 

Either way, glad to hear this is being worked on, and the light at the end of the tunnel is near. Soooo.....

 

FANMADE_PARTY_HARD_YO.gif

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[DE]Glen, I don't want to be that guy, but we both know that there are a lot of games which work around strict nat somehow. For example, all of the game which use steam matchmaking servers, allow you to be host even if you have a strict nat. A lot of late console games do this too. That's exactly why people see problem in Warframe and not their routers and they are partially right. Ofcourse it's mostly a router or (as was in my case) ISP problem (my ISP was strict-NAT only disregard routers or anything else, now I pay bonus fee for "white" ip), but still lots and lots of games work around strict NAT.

You can easily check this by yourself: launch any steam game (CS, L4D2, Portal) and you will find you can be host with strict NAT without any problems.

 

Sincerely, your veteran player.

 

Like I said, StrictNAT is fine provided either the host or the client isn't strict.

 

And guess how Steam "fixes" this for other games? I'll give you a hint: it starts with p and ends with roxy.

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I'd like a 'NETWORK DIAGNOSTIC' page in the launcher, which can test these issues before we launch the game. 

 

It's in game: Options/Gameplay/Analyze Network.

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I see a lot of complex solutions for this. Here's mine.

 

Copy/paste into notepad first, then copy/paste into the forums. That clears all formatting. You can also in some browsers, right click and "copy plain text" or something like that.

 

As for the Strict NAT, nice! If I may make a suggestion though... Post the TL;DR first rather than at the end. I for one love your explanations, but they are rather detailed. =P

 

Sorry but I didn't read your suggestion because it was after too many words.

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Hm.

 

So the base issue is the same as that of port-forwarding, trying to establish a connection from outside a network to the inside of it.  Generally this is mitigated via the gateway forwarding an incoming connection to a certain IP based on rules it was told (generally port-based and either set ahead of time as a static rule via port forwarding, or dynamically with uPnP).

 

However in cases where this is not possible on either end, no connection can be established because it won't make it all the way in either direction.  This doesn't affect other games or standard internet activities because in most other situations it's the client establishing a connection to a pre-configured server (and once the connection is established, data flows both ways).

 

So the solution DE has chosen is to provide a proxy on your end that both players can connect to since it's configured to accept incoming connections... and this is doable for you all because the number of connections that are purely strict<->strict is such a tiny amount that it's not a noticeable drain on your bandwidth?

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Still having Strict Nat issues :( 

 

Like I said: we'll still warn you about the problem because if you fix it yourself (rather than having to go through a proxy) it'll be less lag for you.

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So the solution DE has chosen is to provide a proxy on your end that both players can connect to since it's configured to accept incoming connections... and this is doable for you all because the number of connections that are purely strict<->strict is such a tiny amount that it's not a noticeable drain on your bandwidth?

 

Oh it's noticeable, but it's holding. We may have to turn it off when the weekend rolls around and the number of players surges -- next we're working on distributing the load to different data-centers around the world.

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Will network people get an improvement?

Unfortunately, there are those like me with playable internet just no way to forward any ports :/

 

*will read full post when I get home

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Like I said, StrictNAT is fine provided either the host or the client isn't strict.

 

And guess how Steam "fixes" this for other games? I'll give you a hint: it starts with p and ends with roxy.

Steam matchmaking servers are only used as proxy during lobby phase. When server is loaded players are connected directly to the server, even if both server and player have a Strict NAT. Probably some TCP routing dark magic. Anyway thanks for not abandoning us Strict NATers, we do appreciate it.

 

Btw, about formating: 

S6ZsZsY.png

Edited by SonicSonedit

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I pasted from google docs into the forum -- I have no idea how to even change the color.

Copy into Notepad and then into the forum - text from Google Docs/MS Word comes with formatting :-)

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This thread was incredibly informative. I've always tried to explain what Strict NAT is and why it's a problem with one's router to those who were experiencing it and how it affects lots of games (specifically games that rely on Peer to Peer client/host setups, versus dedicated server setups where Strict NAT doesn't cause too much issue).

 

Also glad to see that there is a potential workaround that can be done to circumvent NAT difficulties.

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I pasted from google docs into the forum -- I have no idea how to even change the color.

Maybe you can try and convince the web team to finally allow the use of the basic editor instead of this abomination of WYSIWYG? Then you could copy your texts from everywhere without having to fear what kinds of formatting information might still be sticking around, messing up how it is displayed.

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